Michigan Department of Education won't count online learning toward yearly requirement

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

Source: Detroit Free Press

Students attending school online during the coronavirus shutdown won't be able to count it toward their required annual instructional hours, the Michigan Department of Education said Friday.

"There is no mechanism to earn instructional time during a period of mandated school closure," Deputy State Superintendent Vanessa Kessler told school leaders Friday in a memo. "However, schools can and are encouraged to offer supplemental learning opportunities to students using distance learning methods as they see fit."

Read more: https://www.freep.com/story/news/education/2020/03/20/michigan-department-education-schools-online-learning-coronavirus/2883849001/?utm_source=freep-Coronavirus%20Watch&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=baseline_greeting&utm_term=newsletter_greeting

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All the effort toward design-on-the-fly online schooling has been futile in MI. There's just no substitute for classrooms.

Any other states addressing this issue?

[gibraltar72]

1. This is heartbreaking.

[drray23]

2. they better get it together.

This is ridiculous. Online learning is the new normal for at least the rest of the year. They should embrace it and modify their system to include it instead of clinging to old rules.

[Yavin4]

4. Thank you. Online learning is the present and the future.

It could also go a really long way towards reducing the costs associated with higher education.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

7. Teachers have been "getting it together" (developing classroom methods) for centuries.

Maybe the future is online/interactive/youtube, but the technology needs work, processes need revamping, teachers need retraining. It may be wise to embrace it, as you say, but it's not something that can effectively happen within days.

[drray23]

17. i am referring to the administration who said this wont count towards graduation

not the teachers.

[MontanaMama]

3. I'm waiting for news on how this will be handled in MT.

My kiddo is on spring break now and classes were to resume on Monday. The principal of his high school says that we may have online classes up and going in another week or so but I wonder how that will affect kids with no home computer or internet. If kids aren't able to get their required instruction hours due to this crisis, how will they ever catch up? What about seniors headed to college?

[Igel]

16. It'll affect relatively few kids.

Computers a problem?

Phones. iPads. Kindles. All sorts of devices are distance-learning ready.

I've had kids sit there and tell me, "No phone, sorry, can't do the assignment." I point to the phone and say it's a portable computer, and it works just fine.

For the rest of the year there are a lot of free hotspots set up around the country. And I know local schools have boosted their signals so that their network's visible for a ways off school grounds.

Whether it counts for in-class time is a state thing. In Texas, if it's in the building, you need seat time. If it's online, not so much.

[Dem2theMax]

26. The daughter of a friend of mine teaches in Colorado.

She is in a very low-income school district. No computers. The kids don't have access to any kind of technology.

This same friend of mine has quite a few grandchildren in school. But they are in districts where there is money. I don't have kids so I don't know about all of these things. But my friend told me that the grandchildren in the higher income districts are using Chromebook for their studies.

So there are kids out there who don't have access.

[MontanaMama]

28. Exactly.

This is my worry. Kids that don't have access will be left behind. My kiddo has a computer at home but it doesn't have a camera. When I bought it for him I left the camera of of the system on purpose.

[Dem2theMax]

32. I did the same thing. No camera, on purpose.

I have a feeling they are going to have to erase this entire school year for most of the students in the United States. Everyone is going to be a year behind.

[royable]

36. There are USB cams available for purchase online that work quite well.

You could plug in the camera during the schooling hours when your child needs it, and have it unplugged and unavailable to your child at other times... perhaps not terribly practical, but tossing an idea out there.

[MontanaMama]

37. Thank you.

I didn’t know about usb cams! I love DU. I learn something everyday.

[royable]

39. Glad to be of help.

I have a logitech usb cam, a couple years old, which works very well.

Good luck with the very-likely-to-be-happening remote schooling. The whole country will be going through this, so you and your school system will not be alone, and I'm sure lots more resources will become available online to help people out and improve education.

[cp]

5. Is this dolt related to Betsy DeVos?

Maybe "there is no mechanism to earn instructional time" at this moment. In a crisis it's your effing job to make one.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

9. I don't know her background. I assume she's a Democrat, appointed by our new Dem Governor. nt

[Igel]

18. It might be.

Might not be.

Depends on where the requirement's written. If in something she's responsible for, it's hers. If it's something that the governor has to produce, not hers, not directly. If it's in the law, then it's up to the legislature.

And it may require a public comment/review period. You know all those pesky things we require the government to do so that it's not the caprice of a single person?

[ancianita]

6. Then the kids and parents should say fuck it, and vote those assholes out. What. A nation's children

are supposed to LOSE credentials because the adults don't know how to produce accredited CONTENT??

THAT'S BULLSHIT. IT'S PROFESSIONAL NEGLIGENCE.

Fucking Michigan, the Mississippi of the north.

[Igel]

19. Read it again.

It seems to be saying that classroom time is essential, and it's either in the regs or (worse) the law.

Producing the content? Not the problem.

Finagling the state's regulations and rules, that's the problem.

And it's not "lose" so much as "not earn." It's not like the kids have the credit and it's being taken away from them.

[ancianita]

22. Then Michigan leaders need to MAKE the "mechanism to earn instructional time... of mandated closure"

It's NOT their job to simply take away accreditation. Their action is unconstitutional, unconstitutional to not do their professional duty to provide what the state's constitution provides for.

It IS as if kids DO "have credit and it's being taken away from them."

Classroom time is not essential. CONTENT and skill building are essential. Teachers' online presence are essential. Those two things are key to accreditation; all else is non-essential management of building sites and administrative crap.

[Laelth]

8. Then what's the point? Just to keep the kids busy? n/t

-Laelth

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

10. I think it's a case of "ready, fire, aim!"

implementation precedes planning.

[tblue37]

14. I tutor, though I am taking a social distancing break right now. When I start tutoring again, i

will focus on making sure the kids learn what they need at this stage of their education, even though they won't get academic credit for it.

[NotHardly]

11. This is NOT heartbreaking, it is a rule that can change, and a programming that can be added...

this is just jerking off and doing nothing to fix the problem. Cue to Michigan, quick 1) Find IT guy, 2) add app artifact, and 3) count time for teachers and students w/ app.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

12. "Find IT guy". That was probably what they did. But he (I) is an idiot about teaching kids.

What they SHOULD do, is send minions out to discover the truly effective methods being used in other states, pick a good one, and implement it. Maybe have to make up two weeks in June.

I agree with you, it is a rule that can change.

[pnwmom]

13. This doesn't make sense. Maybe whoever decided that should go back to school. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

15. As I remember, there were a lot of things about high school that didn't make sense.

It would seem to be easier to administer today. Teachers do what they can, with an iphone camera pointed at a blackboard, then give the standard tests. You pass, you graduate. You fail, well, we have another decision to make ...

[drray23]

20. I have taught university level classes online before

and I found that instead of being detrimental, it was more efficient than face to face. First off, you can stay focused, the audience does not get distracted. You can also use a lot of useful teaching aids like show slides, play videos, etc.. while lecturing. People can record you, interact with you. The fact its online also makes people self-moderate when they ask questions. Meaning, they wait for the previous person to have made their comments before jumping in.
I do agree that there is a learning period for the teacher to get comfortable and proficient with it.

[ancianita]

23. +1000

Same for younger students.

[sinkingfeeling]

29. Online instruction is over 20 years old. I was reviewig

courses in 1997.

[Doreen]

21. That's gotta be bullshit.

I have friends who's children did on line public school and the time on the computer was counted. I mean it was recorded by the school system. You know, counted logged in time?

In other word the kids all get vacation because if it is not counted most parents are not going to bother.

[ancianita]

24. My grandson logs in his study time every day from 9 am to 5 pm. He diligently is in touch with

his teachers and vice versa.

He's getting accredited, and no one in Illinois is even thinking like a bureaucratic hack about that.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

25. Yes, but it's "official" bullshit. From the top of the Michigan educational hierarchy.

As Trump might say, "The very best bullshit".

Maybe it will get reversed, if enough big donors raise hell with the governor.

[snpsmom]

27. There are a lot of moving parts here

First is equity: many students, especially those in poorer and rural districts, do not have reliable internet access (almost half of the UP falls into this category). [link:https://www.freep.com/story/news/education/2020/03/19/coronavirus-schools-online-student-unequal-access/5071006002/|

Another issue is accommodations for special education. What do you do for students who need different types of access, more resources, an aide, etc?

And there is good evidence that online classes leave behind the most at-risk students. [link:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/business/online-courses-are-harming-the-students-who-need-the-most-help.html|

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

30. "Special Education" is its own immense topic.

Tutors, aides, nurses, therapists, can't safely wander in and out of quarantine zones.

It could bring up a new category of "triage", and educational ancient Sparta.

Are there obvious answers in this area?

[snpsmom]

33. I'm a teacher, but not certified in special ed

Lots of conversation going on right now about how to tackle these problems. This isn't something that can happen in two or three weeks.

FWIW curriculum/lesson planning that is developed for classroom delivery can't effectively be dumped into an online platform. Online courses need to be developed from the beginning to be taught on line. They're different animals.

[Happy Hoosier]

38. These are special circumstances...

So ya make do. My wife had to port her in person college classes to online only in 3 days. She had to make some adjustments. My daughter’s high school is doing all its instruction online. She will (hopefully) graduate and start college in the fall.

[defacto7]

31. The crisis is not the kid's fault. Make it work, dammit.

It's working ok here. My teacher spouse is working hard to help get everyone through the glitches and they are succeeding. Everyone will have to adjust the grading, curriculum, etc because that's what we do in a crisis. It's hard, it's not perfect but it's a world war against a virus and we don't whine, we just do what he have to do. Stop running into the wall and start climbing.

[Evolve Dammit]

34. Agree. Make it work. The kids sure are. They are doing the assigned work. Give them credit.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

42. Some kids are doing the assigned work, some not so much.

To borrow a line, this is Democratic Underground, where all the parents are above average.

Many members of Free Republic or Jack Pine Radicals are also parents, I worry for their children in these times.

[Evolve Dammit]

43. Wow. I just thought that this might totally fit into the owners plans of keeping citizenry Un-

educated and eliminating public education as un-necessary. See, we did OK during Corona. "I love the un-educated." DJT
Bad thought. They are insane enough to do it.

[Steelrolled]

35. Sounds like she is in over her head

These are extraordinary times, and ordinary rules will going by the wayside over the next year or two. State governments are going to be busy.

[ouija]

40. Teacher in NYC

We go to full online learning starting Monday and students are required to log in and it is taken as attendance.

[lettucebe]

41. That's stupid and shortsighted