In leaked recording, Biden says GOP used defund the police to 'beat the living hell' out of Democrat
Source: NBC News
"That's how they beat the living hell out of us across the country, saying that we're talking about defunding the police. We're not. We're talking about holding them accountable," Biden said Tuesday in a virtual meeting with civil rights leaders, according to audio excerpts posted Thursday in a podcast from The Intercept.
Biden pledged that he would follow through on his promises in the campaign to address systemic racism, but warned about getting "too far ahead of ourselves" with critical Senate runoff elections in Georgia on Jan. 5.
"We can go very far. It matters how we do it. I think it matters how we do it," Biden said.
Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/leaked-recording-biden-says-gop-used-defund-police-beat-living-n1250757
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Thomas Hurt
(13,958 posts)It does sane folk no good to ignore it and hope it will go away.
DownriverDem
(6,969 posts)messaging.
ck4829
(37,420 posts)
Raven123
(7,522 posts)
BlueTsunami2018
(4,843 posts)Getting tagged with that crap hurt us badly. The gop couldn’t have invented a better slogan themselves.
dustyscamp
(2,607 posts)
comradebillyboy
(10,936 posts)Republican ads I saw here in NM. I'm pretty sure that's what cost Xochitl Torres Small her seat in NM district 2.
Cha
(316,680 posts)
calguy
(6,061 posts)This was one of the ways we screwed ourselves out of a true blue wave election.
Messaging matters.
Undisciplined statements by a few radical loose cannons become the weapons that the GOP uses to brand every Dem as a radical as well and scare moderate independents.
The Mouth
(3,406 posts)who would call you out for criticizing the phrase at first.
Anyone using it should just fucking change their registration to (R)
calguy
(6,061 posts)It was in the heat of the battle and emotions were running strong. I can understand their passion but careless words like that only give the other side weapons to use against us.
Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)
apnu
(8,790 posts)A sizable portion of the electorate voted for Biden because they hate Trump then went R for the rest of the ticket. House and Senate gains are far below expectations.
Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)had the courage to back defunding the police, all went down to defeat.
JI7
(93,167 posts)and those are solid blue districts.
The places where it hurt were mostly long time republican districts that went democratic in 2018.
jayschool2013
(2,606 posts)And the GOP ad campaigns against Abby Finkenauer and Rita Hart were all about "How will we survive as a country without police!?!?!?! Those radical Democrats are going to let Antifa kill you dead!!!"
crimycarny
(1,987 posts)Give me a break. We’re talking down ballot races that were red and we hoped to flipped blue. Or extremely close races that ended up going red. Not reliably blue districts such as the district AOC is from.
Democratic Whip James Clyburn is on the record stating that “Defund the Police” cost Democrat’s seats AND hurt the BLM movement. Extremely poor messaging.
beastie boy
(13,283 posts)landslide victories in the Presidential race, as well as securing veto proof majorities in the House and the Senate? Biden must be a fool for not seeing this.
caber09
(666 posts)I am from 2 districts over from AOC in queens..in nyc....my district is just as blue as hers...and she would lose there. Defund the police is a LOSER there too. The msg killed our side and cost us seats, new seats and leverage. If Biden ticked any more left or didnt strongly come out agaist defund whenever asked...we wouldve lost to fn Trump again because of this stupid slogan
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)They are from some of the most blue districts in the country. Come out to red and purple country and see how defunding the cops works.
I don’t know a single democrat who believes that shit. Pisses them off.
Having high profile democrats pushing it will lose us the house in 2022.
Democratic leaders should have knocked it down hard the second it became a thing.
SoFlaBro
(3,730 posts)n/t
TwilightZone
(28,836 posts)We got hammered on it in South Texas and South Florida, to name two. That's common knowledge.
caber09
(666 posts)NYC Council races were much closer than they shouldve been, NYS Assembly members also blamed defund for costing our side...2 NYC Council seats in LIBERAL NYC were almost lost strictly because of defund the police...same with NYS Senate seats and house seats...and we lost some too...and we lost races we shouldve won which wouldve added to our totals all over the country...terrible...if this happened here in Deep Blue NY, I can only imagine what happened in TX and FLA
electric_blue68
(25,781 posts)... and I'm a NYC'r. Der!
And dammit for the loses.
PatrickforO
(15,339 posts)We're talking about reforms, which will necessarily change how funding is distributed within police departments. But not defunding. No, absolutely no, sane person I know would want to live in a city without police.
trc
(829 posts)"Democrats want to defund the Police" does. If a slogan requires very educated people to explain what it means, and what it does NOT mean, we will lose to the republicans every time.
PatrickforO
(15,339 posts)
backscatter712
(26,357 posts)It's simple, the meaning is obvious, it frames it in a way that has more appeal and is harder for the fascists to attack.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(16,186 posts)that phrase came from where? I can't put my finger on the exact date I first heard it. We can't be sure it wasn't put into the mainstream by the other side and made to look like it came from us. Politics is a dirty, slimy business and it's my impression the Republicans are honors graduates of the school of dirty tricks...…..
Squinch
(58,251 posts)crimycarny
(1,987 posts)
Owl
(3,763 posts)
Shermann
(9,007 posts)There's always going to be some overblown gaffe that Republicans make political hay out of.
The alternative would be to...*gasp*...try to actually demonstrate that your positions are better for the country than your opponent's actual positions.
Their supporters aren't demanding that demonstration, so why bother?
Behind the Aegis
(55,918 posts)And still people refuse to see. Apples and oranges, and most think everywhere is a fruit salad. IT AIN'T!
crimycarny
(1,987 posts)Even I was taken aback the first time I heard this term. I remembering thinking “we can’t eliminate police? What are they talking about?” I literally starting googling “defund the police” immediately because it alarmed me so much.
Our electorate is so uniformed that 70 million people voted for a crook who is also a moron. 40% think the election was stolen. Do we really think the average voter is going to take the time to look up what “defund the police” actually means?
Vivienne235729
(3,748 posts)Then all it is doing is muddies the water. We need to quit carrying water for republicans. Most people won't know what it REALLY means. Hell, I had to explain it to some DEMOCRATS.
crimycarny
(1,987 posts)Especially when it comes to your typical American voter. I’m shocked at how uniformed and incurious the average US citizen is.
Edward R Murrow saw this coming in his famous “wires and lights in a box” speech. Warning of the dumbing down of America by TV and radio being used solely to entertain, influence, and advertise. Profoundly prophetic.
“Surely we shall pay for using this most powerful instrument of communication both to insulate the citizenry from the hard and demanding realities which must indeed be faced if we are to survive, and to conflate journalistically verified facts with partisan-inspired, opinion-based commentary.”
https://www.rtdna.org/article/a_wires_and_lights_in_a_box_speech_for_today
bucolic_frolic
(53,985 posts)For 3 weeks' time you would have thought it was "Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!" or "her EMAILS!!!!".
caber09
(666 posts)calguy
(6,061 posts)As she gains experience in her second term and beyond. Using a bazooka approach in her rhetoric has damaged our cause more than it's helped us.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)calguy
(6,061 posts)She's still way too impressed with herself for me to be impressed by her.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I like team players.
There is no ‘I’ in the word team. But there’s a ‘me’.
BasicallyComplicated
(61 posts)Sorry the logic doesn't flow. Top of the ticket took the same attack and won. I would say the bottom of the ticket ran against Trump and forgot who they were really running against. Win your damn race period!
crimycarny
(1,987 posts)“Defund the police is killing our party and we’ve got to stop it (Rep James Clyburn).
“John Lewis and I were very concerned when these slogans came out about ‘defund the police’...”We sat together on the House floor and talked about how the slogan...could undermine the BLM movement, just as ‘burn, baby, burn destroyed our movement back in the ‘60’s”. (
I trust these two know what they are talking about.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/james-clyburn-john-lewis-defund-the-police-messages-black-lives-matter/
caber09
(666 posts)It had everything to with losing..Biden has long time been known to be pro law enforcement and on the record immediately came out and constantly on national tv said he was against defund the police....his track record helped him vs those who didn't have the same record and got hammered within districts...so yes Biden did better on too
Of ticket for that very reason along with not being trump defund was killer, if trump wasn't nominee it prob costs is the election
BasicallyComplicated
(61 posts)Sorry but too many Democrats played the middle and got thumped. They ran away from positions out of fear. Defund the police is not appealing to some voters what do you support then? How was it messaged. Where did you spend your ad money? I live in Georgia and I saw alot of bad house races. Democratic candidates need to do better. Explain who THEY are not allowing themselves to get framed by talking points.
caber09
(666 posts)John Lewis, Clyburn, Spanberger, many of us here, NYC Council, NYS Assembly, NYS Senate, US House Reps...and Biden have all said that..thats a wide spectrum saying the same thing...you are in GA, thank you for helping turn GA Blue...I highly doubt defund the police was popular in most of GA while defund the police hurt us here in blue areas/liberal areas in NY...let alone down in GA, its pretty easy to see it cost us.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)All of our big pickups in 2018 were hard moderates. Even on the conservative side of the Democratic Party. We lost many of those seats this year.
America is not a leftist country. I wish it was because I am.
But if we run on policies most on DU support get ready for republican control.
Most democrats are to the right of those of us on DU.
quaker bill
(8,262 posts)I support the goals of BLM and attended many rallies and BLM marches and actually think the demands wrapped into the "defund the police" chant were reasonable. It simply takes to long to explain them all bunched together in one statement. The goals and demands are great, the slogan was a poor choice. In politics, when you are explaining, you are losing. Busted up into individual pieces, many of the priorities are winners, they just don't make great chants for marches.
I cannot say that the election would have turned out differently. This election was all about getting rid of Trump, and not much about policy had real impact. The protests and chants were featured in Trump ads and may have helped a bit with his turnout, but an awful lot of them were coming out anyway.
caber09
(666 posts)Even in NY there were alot of dems crossing over down ballot according to the liberal NYC council and NYS Senate & Assembly races...in their post election meetings members were stating that...thats in deep blue NYC...imagine everywhere else. Thankfully Biden was immediately against this and repeated it over and over again.
quaker bill
(8,262 posts)show no major level split ticket voting. Generally where Biden did well, so did the downticket dems. Every vote counts, so it is best to pick slogans that maximize your chances. The problem with this slogan was that it did not accurately state the intent and was easily colored up as something it was not. Again, when you are explaining, you're losing.
pnwmom
(110,187 posts)And so did most of the party, but the loud few hurt some vulnerable members of Congress.
Hip2bSquare
(291 posts)I find it an excuse. Sarah Palin and her screeching voice was non-stop with Obama was 'palling around with terrorists'. What could be more powerful than saying a black man, with a middle name of Hussein was palling around with terrorists. Obama's campaign came in swift and strong and squashed that.
I'm a dem, always and forever, but dems keep bringing knives to gun fights. If the dems were so worried about the defund the police slogan they should have been out there explaining it, non-stop.
The general population are on the side of police accountability, but as usual the dems let the right set the narrative.
caber09
(666 posts)Hip2bSquare
(291 posts)Bad judgment in phrasing and/or comments, etc. happen all the time in politics... like Biden's 'you aint black' comment. Biden quickly 'explained' he shouldn't have been so cavalier.
These things happen and the right are experts in pouncing on these and putting them in the echo chamber. Dems must respond and explain, but didn't, even when they had the support, they didn't explain.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... in addition, Biden made it clear that he did not support the "defund" bullshit. Furthermore in regional, district and state-level politics, Trump wasn't the candidate.
Basement Beat
(659 posts)*sigh*
Gore1FL
(22,834 posts)I knew when I gladly voted for him in the GE. I knew when I gladly opposed him in the Nomination phase.
What I expect him to be is a turning point from Trump. I'd prefer to accelerate through that turn, but at least we are turning.
Basement Beat
(659 posts)Well said.
Biden wasn't on my radar at all during the primary, but of course, I did what I had to do when the general election came around - and I'm glad of the outcome.
"A turning point from Trump" is a great way of putting it all in perspective.
unitedwethrive
(2,016 posts)Besides lying, cheating and stealing, it's their favorite election strategy.
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)After what happened to George Floyd, there was a lot more support towards the idea of reforming the police. However, once the GOP heard "Defund the Police", they pushed the slogan even more than the left did, knowing it would scare the crap out of a lot of Americans. I think the "Defund the Police" slogan actually worked against the idea of changing the way the police operates. In addition, I agree with Joe Biden. I think it made it harder for Democrats to win in down ballot races in November.
However, I think other things also contributed to Democratic losses. The Democrats had hardly any ground game to speak of in places like Florida, and that hurt us a bunch. In addition, the Republicans were good in making people think that there was an either/or choice between fighting COVID or having a decent economy. The Democrats did not do a good enough job, in my opinion, of pushing the idea that the economy will always suffer until we get this COVID-19 thing under control.
Trump and the Republicans kept pushing, and are still pushing, the idea that "Democrats want to shut America down". Democrats don't want to shut America down. Democrats want to shut COVID down, and the best way to do that is by wearing a mask. Shutdowns occur because TRUMP kept refusing to do what needed to be done. From the beginning, the U.S. has needed the following:
--More testing and more accurate reporting of testing results.
--Republican Govenors who don't lie about how dangerous COVID-19 is.
--Talking Heads on places like Fox News not lying about how dangerous COVID-19 is.
--More PPE gear and ventilators for hospitals handled with a national ordering policy.
--More high quality masks and more pushing of the idea that masks were necessary instead of Trump making fun of people wearing masks.
--More announcements that COVID-19 was dangerous
--A coordinated national policy with regard to handling COVID
--Ordering more vaccines in the summer...not less.
caber09
(666 posts)
Lonestarblue
(13,220 posts)Every ad I saw here in Austin had attacks on Democrats for defunding the police. Biden was always a long shot to win Texas, but Democrats had an opportunity to pick up several state seats. They won zero. Their opponents just hammered them with defunding the police, and it made a difference. The concerns about the slogan came out almost immediately after the BLM movement used it, and many called for it to be changed immediately. I wish they had because I think it hurt us.
dalton99a
(92,031 posts)It was a huge gift to Republicans
Gore1FL
(22,834 posts)I thought the slogan was poorly worded, but if people were that lost in the nuance, they weren't voting Dem anyway, I suspect.
caber09
(666 posts)down ballot even in liberal nyc
Gore1FL
(22,834 posts)If it is based on data then I would like to know what data so I might see it myself.
caber09
(666 posts)showing dems down ballot switched over defund the police while sticking with Biden at top of ticket, it was from their leaked post election meeting. State Senator Diane Savino led the charge on this info and backed up what Spanberger was saying in the house, and many agreed. Too many council races, state senate and assembly races were closer than they shouldve been in NYC, on Long Island the Dem reps got hammered on the issue too.
Yeehah
(6,156 posts)Police Reform Now would have been better.
RVN VET71
(3,125 posts)thought about what "fixing" a male dog means and decided otherwise! Still, I think many of the more murderous cops out there might be better police officers if they were, well, "fixed."
But I agree that "Defund the Police" gave the Party of Plutocratic Fascists way more ammunition than it gave Dems and I suspect that it contributed significantly to our losses in the House. "Defund the Police" meant, to the lumpenproletariat, simply "No Police," and many voters were already uneasy about the violence the freaking media dwelled on. To tell those folks that a vote for you was a vote for the eradication of police forces (which is exactly how the GOP and their major media outlets like Fox were framing it) was to tell them to vote Republican.
jalan48
(14,914 posts)
Skittles
(169,468 posts)not sure what was actually accomplished by that
jalan48
(14,914 posts)which was counter productive.
Skittles
(169,468 posts)rioting, burning, looting is just plain criminal behavior - it is sickening and disgusting and completely counter-productive - NOTHING justifies it, nothing
jalan48
(14,914 posts)the hands of the conservative media which used it to manipulate public opinion.
ForgoTheConsequence
(5,162 posts)I don't remember anyone threatening to kill governors or overtaking state houses with ar-15's. Jesus, turn off Faux News.
jalan48
(14,914 posts)DENVERPOPS
(13,003 posts)will ever coordinate their party, their efforts and their messaging?????????
And, I'm sorry, once again AOC needs to be careful and only make her comments in front of other Dems and not in public or to reporters.....
rainin
(3,246 posts)feels offended that this slogan is widely rejected needs to stop taking this personally. We're smart, let's work on a better slogan that addresses the problem of corrupt police, but doesn't imply we want to get rid of all policing.
We want better policing. We want fair policing. We want accountable policing. We want intelligent policing.
We want police.
Now, if you're tempted to explain something to me, then before you do, consider that a slogan that needs constant defending, even to your own side, isn't a good slogan.
Let's work together to find a better one. Fighting over this one is wasting time.
BrightKnight
(3,684 posts)think it is coming from politically savvy forums like DU. I think it is coming from newer activists. I am not sure why Moveon keeps pushing it.
yaesu
(8,949 posts)one and change it to We Support Our Local Pizza, which I do 
bucolic_frolic
(53,985 posts)because of this and Trump's scare tactics crime wave in the suburbs? We're still vulnerable to 'law and order' Republicans 50 years after the 1960s??
Dunno. Lincoln Project claims they flipped 9-13% of Republicans in swing states they targeted.
I've been assuming Republicans overperformed due to ticket-splitters who voted for Biden.
But these other assumptions indicate we have some strategizing to do.
We sure could use better micromarketing. There is more to issues and turnout than months of fundraising mailings. If I gave $5 to every one I'd be broke. How efficient was that?
At the end of the campaign I began getting emails to long defunct, but forwarded, email addresses. Says to me they're using long-shot antiquated email lists. Surely they need to do more with IT. GOP registered more new voters than we did.
The Mouth
(3,406 posts)Every asshole who broke windows, looted, pulled down a statue, or supported those who did as as much responsible for the damage as any Republican. Sorry, I don't give a fuck HOW exploited you are, breaking shit hands elections to Republicans.
Polybius
(21,497 posts)Can you advocate extreme views, such as supporting rioters, tearing down statues, eliminating the police, etc.?
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)It was a stupid word.
Re-prioritize, or similar, would have been much better.
weissmam
(910 posts)( I like saying that)
the saying should have been (hold the Police accountable)
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... they took advantage of the situation and it hurt is greatly. We should have veto-proof and filibuster proof majorities. But that didn't happen. Meanwhile... as always... those who are responsible for the sabotage will continue to deny deny deny. I've even heard other "progressive" people on the Internet making the absurd claim that "it serves the Democrats right" (which confirms my theory about intentional sabotage). It's the same as when Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon could barely contain their giddiness when Trump won. They did everything they could to kneecap Hillary, then pretend like they had nothing to do with it. And the same people are also trying to kneecap and sabotage Biden... even BEFORE he's taken the oath of office. Nit picking every nominee as if they feel they have the right to turn Biden's administration into the Bernie-lite administration. (I'm not making this up... it's been in ALL the papers.)
All I'm trying to say is... the time for trying to tear down Biden is OVER!
ForgoTheConsequence
(5,162 posts)LOL. White neo-liberals aren't on the same side as those working for true police reform.
The Mouth
(3,406 posts)KY_EnviroGuy
(14,766 posts)who is known to plant the seeds of descent on social media on both sides of the political spectrum. They have think tanks whose job it is to dream up shit like this to plant into the brains of both Americans and other nations such as the UK.
Regarding messaging, one has to think like the average Joe and Jane. When they heard this phrase, their reaction was the morbid fear of not having any police response should they experience events such as gun violence, robbery or a serious car wreck.
KY.......
backscatter712
(26,357 posts)When I say this, progressives say "Well, what Defund the Police really means is..."
WRONG!
When you have to explain your slogan, you've already lost.
Using those three words paints a picture of police departments being fired and mass chaos in the streets. When you say "No, it means this instead", that's not convincing to Edgar and Martha in Whitebread USA.
It was child's play for the GOP to turn it into a snarl phrase and go to town with it on the hate Wurlitzer.
barbtries
(31,120 posts)it was an unfortunate word choice. it's the right thing to do. but it lent itself to propaganda efforts on the part of republicans with a low info, fox-brained audience.
SunSeeker
(57,496 posts)His corrupt Republican scumbag challenger Michelle Steel kept ginning up "Support the Blue" rallies all over Orange County this summer, after the George Floyd protects. She kept saying Rouda and the Democrats would defund the police, while she supported the police and would keep OC safe. That was her schtick and it worked. She edged him him out. And it sucks.
BadGimp
(4,106 posts).. that the weapon "they" (some democrats) created and gave to their enemies (The GOP) was then instantly turned on them and used to burn "them" (those Democrats) to the ground.
To be fair the Media helped, ala Shake n Bake like.
relayerbob
(7,362 posts)keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)Sometimes a single word can impart a meaningful message.
'Rocketman' (weak word) Kim was brought out by Trump.
'Dotard' (strong word) Donald was Kim's response.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)know when and how much to rub their noses in it,,,!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Hopefully voters have wised up.
ForgoTheConsequence
(5,162 posts)Pathetic.
TomDaisy
(2,120 posts)The Mouth
(3,406 posts)or "Back the Blue" was crucified by the woke folk. thanks a fucking million. Most people like cops.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Plain and simple.
TomDaisy
(2,120 posts)Orrex
(66,661 posts)I'm sure that Republican fuckheads and their obedient media enablers will make much of this, but Biden was absolutely correct.
RDANGELO
(4,015 posts)The great majority of people were not in danger of having their police forced de funded. It's bullshit!
WhoWoodaKnew
(847 posts)
Kablooie
(19,040 posts)It is a terrible slogan and damages it's own goals as a result.
Grokenstein
(6,245 posts)And by that, I mean people who think righteousness and idealism trump (cough) the fear the Republicans put into their base AND voters who have no party preference or concrete ideology.
"Was it a terrible slogan? ...No. It's the people who are wrong."
intheflow
(29,982 posts)Because Democratic leadership put a lot of energy into defending endless funding for police in a year where cops, and state and federal agencies demonstrated repeatedly why we need to defund the police (and the military, Homeland Security, Border Patrol, etc.). We helped Republicans get the word out about how shitty a concept it was. Meanwhile, Black, brown, and Asian citizens continue to get beat up and killed for no reason other than their skin isn't white. 