Joe Manchin just took an important filibuster reform off the table
Source: Vox
Sen. Joe Manchin, the most conservative member of the Senate Democratic caucus, has spent the past couple of weeks doling out cryptic hints that he might be open to changing filibuster rules that currently allow the Republican minority to block most legislation unless a bill is supported by at least 60 senators.
On Wednesday, however, he appeared to shut the door on several ideas floated by proponents of filibuster reform within the Senate. Manchins latest move does not mean that filibuster reform is dead, but it does suggest that Democrats who wish to make it easier to enact legislation may struggle to come up with a strong package of reforms that will win Manchins support.
Earlier this month, Manchin told Meet the Presss Chuck Todd that hes open to making the filibuster a little bit more painful for the minority, and that he might be willing to make senators stand there and talk if they wish to maintain a filibuster. The West Virginia senator, in other words, appeared open to a so-called talking filibuster, where senators who wish to block legislation must speak continuously on the Senate floor in order to maintain a filibuster.
...
And Manchins newly stated opposition to burden shifting that is, moving to requiring 41 senators to sustain a filibuster instead of requiring 60 senators to break one is a particularly significant blow to reform efforts. Burden shifting, combined with other reforms such as a talking filibuster, could have imposed very potent limits on the minoritys power to obstruct legislation.
Read more: https://www.vox.com/2021/3/17/22336181/joe-manchin-filibuster-reform-41-votes-talking-jeff-merkley-senate-rules
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)qazplm135
(7,447 posts)explain please.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)talking filibuster by a single senator was 24 hours 18 minutes. If there's a concerted effort by several senators the filibuster can last longer (the one that attempted to stop the civil rights act was about 60 days in total) but if the bill is important enough the bill's proponents can wait it out.
It would be nice to eliminate the filibuster entirely but the chances of that happening seem to be rather slim.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)Their side is pretty unified, and you only need 8 Senators to get you through each night with only one hour per Senator from say midnight to 8am. They easily have three times as many in their most conservative/Trumpian block so odds are no one would have to serve more than 2 nights a week for one hour.
I see no reason why they cannot do that indefinitely, and it's not like public pressure is going to work on the worst of them.
There aren't just a handful of crazies on their side now, there are a lot more than that.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)around to even further modifications.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)It assume Manchin and Sinema are doing it strictly out of principle as opposed to more professional or personal reasons tied to their states or their bipartisan proclivities. I don't think those two are doing things because they truly believe republicans will eventually pass some moderate stuff. They do it because they think, rightly or wrongly, that it looks good in their states and because if the filibuster goes away, then every bill that doesn't pass (or does) is in large part on them for being the deciding vote one way or the other, and I don't think they want that kind of attention and pressure. The filibuster takes that off of them.
The best way to get rid of the filibuster, if that's what you want, is to elect more Democratic Senators so that those two, and any others, no longer matter (which would suit them just fine because the pressure would also be relieved while still being able to perform the role of bipartisan moderate).
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)in the Senate isn't until 2 years and there is always the possibility Democrats lose the House even if the increase the margin in the Senate.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)and I am not saying it's you, but too many on our side put all the eggs in the basket of now, and when that basket doesn't get filled, they walk off and say, Dems suck.
That basket probably ain't going to get filled. We need people to understand that it's going to take more than one election to turn things around. We need people to understand that 2022 is as if not more important than 2020 if they want Democratic or progressive progress. Put in two more Senators, hold what we have every where else, and boom, stuff starts to change quickly.
Give up because it didn't all happen in the first two years, and we are back to the remainder of Obama's time in office after the ACA with divided government and absolutely nothing getting down.
dsc
(52,163 posts)they are about to make it illegal for Blacks to vote in GA and for Hispanics and NA to vote in Arizona. Add making it illegal for Blacks to vote in WI, OH, and soon we won't be able to win any elections held in any place at any time.
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)They're going to make it illegal for Blacks to vote in GA?
dsc
(52,163 posts)what they will do, is create lines of double digit hours, forbid people from feeding or giving drinks to the people in those lines, and we will be lucky if we have more than one polling place in Fulton County. BTW Arizona is already considering just having the legislature cast their EV instead of using the results of the vote.
dsc
(52,163 posts)Some voting-rights activists singled out for criticism a provision that would give any Georgian the right to challenge the eligibility of an unlimited number of voters. In the run-up to the January 5 Senate runoff elections, groups, such as the conservative organization True the Vote, sought to cast doubts of the eligibility of hundreds of thousands of Georgia voters.
"This is inviting people to interfere with the rights of voters," Andrea Young, executive director of the ACLU of Georgia, said of the language in the new bill. "This is so reminiscent of any White person being able to say, 'That Black person can't vote.' "
end of quote
That literally gives every white GA the right to disqualify the vote of any number of Black GA they wish.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)so basically you are saying, everyone give up, it's all over.
dsc
(52,163 posts)and not let it be filibustered. If it takes moving the entire FBI to Charleston WV and giving Sinema the title to the Grand Canyon in perpetuity then so be it.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)so then what?
That's the problem with apocalyptic statements.
Ligyron
(7,635 posts)Because in '22 we may well lose that control unless we start delivering for middle class Americans at least some of those many common sense things that almost everybody supports ... except Repug Congress people for some strange reason.
The Republican party used to have some decent, but misguided people in the past but they are little more than a criminal organization now, full of crazies and terrorists whose actions, or lack thereof, have caused the death of millions of their own constituents and impoverished many others.
They cheat, lie, steal and gaslight almost beyond the capacity to imagine.
It's a bad idea to even try and negotiate with terrorists.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)but the filibuster isn't going away, and this bill very likely isn't passing. I won't say never because you never know.
But given the very low likelihood, it seems to me that coming up with a plan B to deal with voter suppression would be wiser than putting all of our eggs in a basket that is likely to be bottomless.
James48
(4,436 posts)Why it is necessary.
#1. Republicans are too lazy to stay up all night for multiple filibuster attempts. You might get a few now and then, but they wont do it night after night.
#2. They expose themselves when arguing over stupid things, and the American people will see them as they really are.
Just do it. Make the filibuster painful. Now.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)that Republicans will be "too lazy" when a whole host of progressive bills could pass and all they have to do is set up a schedule where even half their delegation only has to spend one hour a night 2-3 times a week.
Americans see who they really are right now, and half of them like it.
GregariousGroundhog
(7,525 posts)I like Merkley's idea of requiring the minority party to keep 41 senators in the chamber at all times. I wonder if Manchin and Sinema could be brought on board by lowering that number to 33. I also wonder how it would compare in difficulty versus the current rules.
ZonkerHarris
(24,229 posts)so they can't fund raise and go on FOX and go to fancy lunches.
Make them be forefront to the people of this nation that they are blocking all senate business and why.
Their constant obstruction is free but there is supposed to be a cost in time and accountability
LymphocyteLover
(5,644 posts)and even the talking ones may be useful.
PSPS
(13,603 posts)West Virginia holds veto power over any legislation now. 0.5% of the population gets to impose its will on the other 99.5%.
And the .5% is on the side of "hurt america" while the 99.5% is on the side of "help america and defeat fascists"
hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)Someone needs to have a talk with this jerk. He is obviously enjoying his moments of power - a little too much if you ask me. He needs to be brought in line.
If Schumer cant, maybe they should ask Nancy to talk to him!!! LOL
LymphocyteLover
(5,644 posts)riversedge
(70,244 posts)alwaysinasnit
(5,066 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)It would certainly take him out of the spotlight.
alwaysinasnit
(5,066 posts)ace card. LBJ was a master of the art of strong-arming members of Congress, so maybe such lessons might have present-day value.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)If there are 2 more Democratic Senators he can vote his "conscience" without taking heat.
Texin
(2,596 posts)alwaysinasnit
(5,066 posts)over the rest of his colleagues and even on Biden's policy agenda.
Texin
(2,596 posts)This guy is no Dem.
groundloop
(11,519 posts)Granted, he's the worst Democratic Senator as far as voting with the Democratic Party, but he's still far batter than any GOPer Senator.
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)was an SOB, but he did get things done
oldsoftie
(12,558 posts)It provides a national capital that would not be part of a state or treated as a state, but an enclave under the exclusive authority of Congress. I doubt just a vote can change that
alwaysinasnit
(5,066 posts)scipan
(2,351 posts)control? I'm pretty sure the boundaries aren't in the Constitution.
Polybius
(15,437 posts)You would either have to eliminate/reform the filibuster, or find 60 votes.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)PortTack
(32,778 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 17, 2021, 06:07 PM - Edit history (1)
Hopefully the Dems can change his mind...or he will shift his position again
2naSalit
(86,650 posts)FBaggins
(26,748 posts)It's just that a bunch of wishful thinkers wanted to read their desires into what he was saying.
"What part of 'never' don't you understand?"
Fullduplexxx
(7,865 posts)bluestarone
(16,976 posts)I understand how the two senators feel BUT why discuss it? Why can't they just SHUT UP? No need to discuss it JUST because they are asked the fucking questions!! The MSM just want the BREAKING NEWS! Dam i just wish they would say from the get go that they have NOTHING to say at this time!!! So FRUSTRATING!
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)Because if I say what I think. I'm gonna get banned.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,625 posts)On the table...
It looks like it will be a long, hot summer for Joe and Kyrsten...
Galraedia
(5,026 posts)Democrats need to focus on winning more senate seats and not support him when he's up for reelection in 2024. A democrat that wants to act like a republican should run as one. We have standards and I for one am not afraid of losing a closet republican. I'd much prefer to wipe the grin off of Manchin's face.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)As a red stater who would rather have a Democrat like Manchin than a Republican Marsha Blackburn we need to deal with it. My red state is not flipping any time soon-someday maybe-not in the next 3 cycles. Reality sucks sometimes
FBaggins
(26,748 posts)Think it would have even come up if McConnell were still running the Senate?
He isn't a Republican and we had better stop trying to convince him that he should become one.
Miguelito Loveless
(4,465 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(14,014 posts)ancianita
(36,099 posts)What voters in 2022 will remember is that Schumer backed down on "bold."
America is bipartisan about the Biden legislative agenda. They won't care about no damn filibuster.
What they'll be pissed about is that not-bold Schumer let Biden's climate and infrastructure agenda stall. Democratic stall lost in 2010 because it was seen as weak, and will definitely be seen as weak on
-- Removing the deadline for the ratification of the equal rights amendment.
-- Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act
-- Sabika Sheikh Firearm Licensing and Registration Act
-- Gun Violence Prevention and Community Safety Act of 2020
-- Right to Organize Act of 2021
-- Presidential Transition Enhancement Act of 2019
-- CARES Act
-- Commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans Act
-- Bipartisan Background Checks Act
-- George Floyd Justice in Policing Act of 2020
Schumer should not be any more afraid of McConnell than Republicans should be of Trump.
Bold means Schumer should be like "bring it on" and always, always remind Republicans that their 2022 jobs will depend on what they do for their bipartisan voting constituents by voting WITH Democrats.
Run the Democratic Majority Senate, Chuck. Losing is not an option.
Polybius
(15,437 posts)The deadline passed, there's no way the SC votes that it can be removed, since RGB said it can't.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/10/politics/ruth-bader-ginsburg-equal-rights-amendment/index.html
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)His showboating is beyond tedious and his stunts smack of self importance. Was he missing the day Republicans would have happily strung him up next to Pence?
Ferrets are Cool
(21,107 posts)yaesu
(8,020 posts)Jonah Ide
(61 posts)And I ain't talking about the Flintstone's pet dinosaur!
Fiendish Thingy
(15,625 posts)Get ready for thousands of vaccinated constituents to hit the streets this summer, Manchin.
He has no idea what kind of pressure is coming for him...
Jonah Ide
(61 posts)And I ain't talking about the Flintstones' pet dinosaur!
NewHendoLib
(60,015 posts)Ace Rothstein
(3,164 posts)Deminpenn
(15,286 posts)Manchin is part of his 's 4 person leadership teamalong with Sanders, Warner and Warren. Doubtful, then, Manchin is speaking off the cuff.