Historians rank Trump near the bottom of U.S. presidents as Obama rises into the top 10

[MissMillie]

Source: USA Today via msn

Donald Trump is ranked near the bottom of all U.S. presidents by a group of historians, getting the lowest grades for leadership of any commander in chief who has served in the White House in the past 150 years.

The ratings of presidents on 10 leadership qualities, the fourth in a series conducted by C-SPAN, includes assessments by 142 historians and professional observers of the presidency.

The findings underscore the duality of Trump's standing, unprecedented among his fellow presidents. After his upset victory in 2016 and his defeat in 2020, historians hold him in the lowest regard of any president since soon after the Civil War. But he continues to be the face of the Republican Party and its most influential figure, and he is viewed as a potential contender for the GOP's presidential nomination in 2024.

Read more: Link to sourcehttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/historians-rank-trump-near-the-bottom-of-us-presidents-as-obama-rises-into-the-top-10/ar-AALCz23?li=BBnb7Kz

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Well, that didn't take long.

[bearsfootball516]

1. If Obama had gotten any kind of congressional support in his last 6 years, he'd be borderline top 5.

[joetheman]

78. My top five FDR, Clinton, LBJ, Obama, John Adams nt

[Sanity Claws]

80. You can't omit Lincoln

[zuul]

2. "Near the bottom?"

[MissMillie]

6. He's got nowhere to go but down...

It'd take somebody pretty awful to move him up in the rankings.

And I get the whole Buchanan thing.

[COL Mustard]

15. I Think He's Rated #47 As Of Now

[Norbert]

39. No. 48. Even Mrs Woodrow Wilson in her very brief role ranks ahead of him

[COL Mustard]

56. How Could I Forget Edith?

[paulkienitz]

49. James Buchanan, bad as he was, was far more a real president than Trumpsky.

[heckles65]

59. Buchannan, like Pierce

was pro-Southern. It had the completely unintended benefit of delaying succession while the gap between the North's manpower and resources and that of the slave states grew wider. The South would have been harder to conquer if the rebellion had broken out in 1853 or even 1857.

[raging moderate]

66. Ulysses Grant's book said Buchanan stole US government property.

Grant said Buchanan's administration secretly sent different kinds of military equipment to hidden locations in the South, for the use of the Confederacy they knew was about to be announced. This was being planned way ahead of Abraham Lincoln's election to the Presidency. Jefferson Davis's wife implied to Elizabeth Keckley that the South was about to form its own country, that preparations were so great as to assure success in any war, and that Mrs. Keckley would do well to come South with the Davis family and avoid the problems the Northern politicians were sure to face. Mrs. Keckley was an excellent judge of character; she discreetly declined the invitation.

[paulkienitz]

79. I did not know that

Thanks for an educational post. I did not know that the preparations for the secession were moving that far in advance. I ended up looking up Grant's book, and I see that the treason with the weapons was actually committed by Buchanan's secessionist Secretary of War, John B Floyd.

[Pacifist Patriot]

10. Yeah that jumped out at me too.

[BobTheSubgenius]

11. That was wha stuck with me, as well.

How much worse could a pResident get?

[PatSeg]

20. Yeah, I'm trying to visualize what

the "bottom" looks like.

[Icono Classless Jerk]

31. My Thought Exactly, Zuul

I mean, would Satan be substantially worse than Trump???

[wnylib]

37. My first reaction, too.

Who could possibly be lower? What other president was a traitor acting as an agent for a hostile nation while in the White House? What other president attempted a coup to stay in power?

[Warpy]

60. Maybe they don't want to give him bragging rights

by rating him the worst, ever. Malignant narcs will take negative attention when positive attention isn't forthcoming.

After he kicks the butcket, there will be no question. He killed well over half a million people through a combination of pigheaded ignorance and total neglect.

[lagomorph777]

76. He killed over half a million people by deliberate malfeasance.

Trump's COVID genocide was no accident.

[sarge43]

67. ?? The thug encouraged and supported insurrection. n/t

[onetexan]

72. +1 K&R

[jmbar2]

3. NEAR the bottom?!

They're saying Buchanan was worse? Imma hafta google this...

[bearsfootball516]

5. Buchanan was pretty terrible.

He basically directly accelerated the civil war by pretending like there wasn't any kind of growing tension between the north and south.

[OhZone]

7. I realize that there were over a million casualties in the Civil war -

But, did Buchannan actually work with our foreign enemies as a traitor like Rump?


Hell, Rump even tried to reignite a Civil War.


and he kinda suceeded.

[Scrivener7]

9. But is ignoring divisions worse than fomenting divisions? I don't think so.

[Drunken Irishman]

14. Depends on the end result.

[halfulglas]

29. After the 1-6 commission ramps up its hearings

He may drop that other rung. No rush. He's been out less than 6 months. The dust (or corruption) hasn't begun to settle, considering the nepotism, unprecedented (there's that word again) corruption of his cabinet and other appointees. This doesn't even begin to consider those who if not corrupt, simply didn't have any clue how to do their jobs. Did I mention the ignored and thrown away pandemic playbook left for them?

[lapfog_1]

4. There is NO way that Trump isn't far and away

the absolute worst.

I mean there are 44 names that need to be ranked... and then 45 shouldn't even be on the list... but a asterisk someplace...

Shrub would be the worst on that list of 44.

[PatSeg]

22. Well, sadly they rated GW at 29

AND Reagan at 9, while Clinton only got a 19, ten points lower than Reagan.

[peppertree]

24. It's amazing how much revionism there has been in favor of Reagan since he died

I remember his having a middling ranking (around 20th out of 40) after he left office.

And of course, the only major positive during Reagan's tenure - the 1983-89 recovery - was mainly thanks to Carter's popping the OPEC bubble in 1980. Everything else - lower inflation, interest rates - followed as a result.

The Gipper always was a lucky duck.

[groundloop]

27. And what about Ray-Gun coordinating with Iran to steal the election from Carter ?

He just did a bit better job at covering his tracks than 45*.

[peppertree]

32. Exactly

His administration was arguably the second most criminal up to that point, next to Nixon's - when one considers that hostage deal, the consorting with narcos, etc.

I remember reading that the Reagan media toadie who came up with the term 'Iran-Contra' (might've been Bob Novak) always congratulated himself for that.

Because actually, it was Iran-COCAINE-Contra (as in 2% Iran - 98% cocaine).

[PatSeg]

36. Yes, that is accepted as common

knowledge today. So is it less vile and criminal because it happened four decades ago? That alone should have pushed Reagan toward the bottom of the list.

[PatSeg]

34. I really don't remember him

being very popular at the time, but to see him in a better light retrospectively is really odd to me. Iran-Contra, deregulation, and his obvious cognitive decline stand out to me more today than ever. I understand that the republican party has rewritten history and mythologized Reagan, but I would have thought that historians would have a more objective viewpoint. Surely they can't be buying the GOP hype.

[peppertree]

38. Think: think tanks

Repugs have made great strides in filling think tanks of all kinds (including historian ones) with RW ideologues - as well as creating myriad new ones.

Pushing the narrative is half the battle - they've long understood that.

That's why they deride Democrats as (among other things) "reality-based." After all: Who needs reality, when the narrative is what most people will remember. Especially as time goes by.

[PatSeg]

43. Ah, good point

I guess an objective historical viewpoint will probably come long after we are dead and gone, unless the right-wing conquers all and rewrites history completely.

[peppertree]

63. Thank you.

What with all that corporate money behind them, they'll always be quite quite a challenge - that's for sure.

[lagomorph777]

77. He'd be about #40 on my list.

Trump at the very bottom, W just above that, with Buchanan, Jackson, and Wilson bringing up the rear.

[PatSeg]

84. Yes

Especially considering the long range consequences of what he did. Reagan paved the way for so many of the republican politicians, including Trump, who are destroying our democracy.

[oldsoftie]

62. There was also accelerating the demise of the Eastern Bloc

Thats a pretty big accomplishment. Fruition under HW, yes, but Reagan pushed them to the edge economically. Yes, a lot of people here wouldnt agree with that, but the other reasons are a stretch
And HW was probably more "president" during much of the 2nd term too. Knowing what we know now

[peppertree]

64. Repugs like to SAY that - but the data suggest otherwise

The fact is, that the big wave in Soviet defense spending took place in the '70s under Brezhnev - and had plateaued by the time Reagan took office (even with their Afghanistan outlays).

Indeed, the Soviets secretly accepted an IMF bailout all the way back in 1977 - the surest sign of national bankruptcy.

The 1986 commodity price collapse - which followed smaller drops since '80 - sealed their fate, as oil and gas had become their main sources of foreign exchange.

[ProfessorGAC]

75. The USSR Bankrupted Themselves

Reagan's policies, hyper spending, & saber rattling had little real effect.
In fact, Ted Turner had more to do with accelerating the collapse.
When Turner showed the capitalist world there was big money broadcasting over satellite, especially broadcasting news, there was a rush to programming for which the technology did not exist to effectively block.
The people of the Soviet bloc started to see what the west was really like, and the lie bubble was burst.
Add in the courage of Walesa & an outspoken Polish pope and the jig was up for the Politburo.
Then, Desert Storm happened and tech developed pre-Reagan showed the hardliners that the competition was over.
There was a rumor that when the soviet leaders were watching the war unfold on live TV, some warmongering generals insisted they come to Iraq's aid. Gorbachev, as the story goes, told them to shut up because it was their defense systems the USA just wiped out in 15 minutes.
Reagan's influence on the end of the cold war is overstated, greatly.

[wnylib]

41. Raygun at 9? Incredible.

[PatSeg]

45. I know, mindboggling

I don't even want to think of all the presidents he was put ahead of. That's pretty disgraceful.

[Dakota Flint]

25. If the US lasts

for 1,000,000 presidents. I still think that Trump would occupy the very bottom position.

[Under The Radar]

8. And 1/3 of this country loves him.

What a mess

[orwell]

12. TFG, the biggest loser!

He is truly the worst of the worst.

Who else tried to foment revolution against his own government and repeatedly did the bidding of one of our most dangerous adversaries?

He also stopped all progress on the most dangerous challenge to humanity in climate change.

He openly pitted half the country against the other half, demonized a sizable portion of it's citizens, and needlessly plunged a thriving economy into further debt.

All while running the most corrupt administration in history and overseeing the avoidable death of 500,000 citizens.

Nobody even comes close.

[Tommy Carcetti]

13. For the lack of any experience and any sort of temperament, it's a no-brainer.

There was nobody worse than him.

We've had a few bad ones.

But I honestly believe he was hands down the worst.

Corrupt, incompetent, temperamental--we've had Presidents who've fit one of those categories. But Trump was the first to fit all three.

[hlthe2b]

16. With considerable searching, here are the actual rankings

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

33. Tied with Franklin Pierce

Only Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan rank lower.

[ramen]

58. Was looking for this, thank you nt

[hlthe2b]

17. I am continually amused at how much ole Harry Truman rises in these rankings with time (#6)

My Mom was always a fan of his self-educated, plain-speaking manner having grown up not far from Independence, MO--his hometown.

[dsc]

18. He is tied for third to last

they rank Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan lower and he is tied with Pierce. It will be interesting to see what happens over time when they take treatment of LGBT into account like they are now starting to with African Americans. Eisenhower, who instituted the ban on LGBT govt service is 12 on promoted equality for all for instance.

[bucolic_frolic]

19. And they haven't even seen any indictments yet

[Vinca]

21. I'm surprised he's as high as 41. They need a minus category for the Slobfather.

[peppertree]

23. The worst - second only to Dubya

And only because Needy Amin only had one term.

[nuxvomica]

26. LOL! Lower than WH Harrison, who served for one month!

And was ill for that month. This has to be the most insulting comparison for him.

[wnylib]

46. Such a pity that the Tecumseh curse

failed in 2000.

[Mickju]

54. Agreed

That stood out to me also. Worse than a president who never did anything. LOL!

[LudwigPastorius]

28. "near the bottom"

I'm trying to think of another president that incited a violent attempt to circumvent the Constitution and overthrow the United States government, and I'm not coming up with anything.

That alone trumps (sorry) any other measurable presidential quality in determining an overall ranking.

[seta1950]

30. Not near bottom

The worst

[cannabis_flower]

35. Looking at the original article

William Henry Harrison as ranked at number 46. How could he be ranked so bad when he got pneumonia and died 31 days into office? What could he do in 31 days to be ranked so low?

[Polybius]

44. It's not that he did anything to be ranked so low, but the opposite

He didn't do anything to be ranked high.

[cannabis_flower]

47. Seems like...

They should have left him out and put an asterisk next to his name instead.

[jmowreader]

65. Many historians do

The thing about Harrison is, he did quite a bit of good before he was elected president.

On the other hand, it’s hard to argue against the bottom three. Pierce, Johnson and Buchanan were absolutely hideous.

[Polybius]

40. From the article:

"Among other modern presidents, Barack Obama has risen to No. 10, compared with No. 12 in the last C-SPAN historians' survey, in 2017. Ronald Reagan is ranked at No. 9; Bill Clinton at No. 19; George H.W. Bush at No. 21, and George W. Bush at No. 29."

Eww, Reagan and the Bush's ranked way too high.

[BlueWavePsych]

42. Considering all the negligent homicide IT caused, IT should be the worst!

[MissMillie]

48. "public persuasion" is where he gets his strongest marks

How come he gets so much credit for there being a lot of stupid/gullible people out there?

[area51]

50. How can Trump be near the bottom

when he is the bottom.

[Initech]

69. I know, right?

Did the other 44 presidents threaten to murder their own sitting vice president? Yeah I thought so!

[sarchasm]

51. I wholeheartedly agree...

...from the bottom of my bottom. TFG is

[Dreampuff]

52. It could be a good thing to continue having him as the face of the GOP.

With only about a 30% backing, this could be the death of the GOP. We can hope so. If I got to choose, he would be at the very bottom. But then again, if I got to choose Abraham Lincoln and Barack Obama would be tied for first.

[NoMoreRepugs]

53. Something tells me there's a revisionist type or three

among this group of historians and “observers.”

Had the survey been conducted w the qualifier that the participants had to be “rational human beings” I think rump is at the bottom for SURE.

[GregariousGroundhog]

55. TFW Only Andrew Johnson and James Buchanon are worse than you. Sad.

[yaesu]

57. The real headline should be

Historians rank tRumps presidency somewhere between coprolite & toenail fungus.

[Initech]

68. Worst president ever!

[W T F]

70. Near the bottom?........should be dead last year light years

[colsohlibgal]

71. No Way

Chitolini is the worst, by a large margin. Not only was he incompetent he had a total dastardly personality as well. Most of us basically held our breath for 4 years. That night in November 2016 was a gut punch.....enough people voted for that thing to get him elected, even though millions more didn’t vote for him.....only in America with our Electoral College scam....where you can win but lose.

[Sgent]

83. The two ranked worse than him

are in one case the proximate cause of the civil war, and in the other a unindicted traitor who stationed arms caches throughout the south for use during said war.

[Catherine Vincent]

73. I really believe Clinton should be in the top 10

[StevieM]

81. People don't appreciate the importance of his presidency.

Had it not been for him, we would be a far more Reaganite country today, and for the last 28 years. He altered the trajectory of the Reagan Revolution, even if he couldn't fully reverse it.

[oasis]

82. IMO, Clinton should be in the top five. nt

[pansypoo53219]

74. tinkle down ekkkonomikkks should put raygun far lower. ignoring AIDS. his + greensuds

baby boomer social security fix too. KILL THE CAP!!!!!

[Deminpenn]

85. Hard to believe he's not AT the bottom

nt

[melm00se]

86. Normally I say that it really takes

25 years or so to properly evaluate a presidency and its impact. This is due to the fact that the impacts of policies can take that long to come to fruition.

In Trump's case, 5, 10, 25 or more years won't make a difference as he was/is a bottom feeder when it comes to his presidency.