Crew member yelled 'cold gun' as he handed Alec Baldwin prop weapon.......

[groundloop]

Source: CNN

Full Headline:

Crew member yelled 'cold gun' as he handed Alec Baldwin prop weapon, court document shows


An assistant director handed Alec Baldwin a prop firearm and yelled "cold gun" before the actor fired the weapon, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza, according to a court document.

The "cold gun" remark was meant to indicate that the weapon did not have live rounds, according to an affidavit for a search warrant for the movie set filed by the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office and obtained by CNN affiliate KOAT.

According to the affidavit, Baldwin was handed one of three prop guns by assistant director David Halls that were set up in a cart by an armorer for the movie "Rust."

Halls did not know there were live rounds in the gun, the affidavit said.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/23/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-saturday/index.html

---

ALSO..... before the incident several crew members had quit because of concerns over safety. There had previously been an accidental discharge of prop guns on the set but nobody was injured in those instances.

[SheltieLover]

1. And no union workers on site

[Mr.Bill]

20. Except the two people who were shot. n/t

[SheltieLover]

22. Really? 😱

I'd read somewhere there were no union workers on site.

This really adds a new twist, doesn't it?

Ty for sharing!

[Mr.Bill]

28. I can't remember where I read it because

because I've read so much about this in the last day or so. But it does seem logical that a Cinematographer would be union.

[SheltieLover]

30. Oh I know the feeling

I read a lot, too. Ty for sharing!

[PerceptionManagement]

2. Assistant director going to jail

[Buckeye_Democrat]

6. He's certainly most guilty.

If it turns out like some crime drama, it'll be revealed that the cinematographer was pregnant with the assistant director's baby, or some other over-the-top weirdness.

[sanatanadharma]

9. A TFG-russian crime of revenge...

...revenge against Alec Baldwin, in true twisted fashion where a family is threatened, someone does something, something happens, someone is ruined, that someone else is dead is collateral damage in Godfather wars.

Perhaps a lone-wolf someone maga-mad at Baldwin's impersonations.

[forgotmylogin]

18. Negligent homicide, but most likely a tragic accident of inattention.

The fact there were other accidents doesn't look good for the AD though.

But yeah, this is going to be covered on some episode of CSI at minimum.

[Javaman]

19. Nope. He is not.

I have an extensive background in film production.

This is entirely on the property master/armourer. The armorer who works with props is solely responsible for all weapons. It’s their main job to make sure there are only blanks or that the weapon has no ordinance.

The AD is in charge of the set and as such depends on others to do their jobs. He keeps things moving. If he rushed it, that’s still no excuse, the armoire/property master has to follow very strict safety rules, if they rushed an unchecked weapon to set, it’s entirely on the prop master/armorer.

[TexasBushwhacker]

61. That's what I was thinking

This propmaster was non-Union. Was a union propmaster one if the 6 union workers who walked off the set? I don't know.

[truthisfreedom]

72. That would be my childhood buddy Dave.

We used to go rock climbing together. He’s been in the movie business since the eighties. It was the armorer/propmaster who was responsible for the gun being checked.

[Effete Snob]

3. There is going to be a criminally negligent homicide charge or two.

Handling guns in that capacity, where you know you are responsible for the chain of custody of weapons which will be used to simulate gun fighting by persons not trained to handle firearms, requires relevant qualifications and an extraordinary level of care.

[mopinko]

4. that this happened at all is one thing. that it happened twice?

i cant see how this is a accident.

sounds like an agatha christie tale.

[rpannier]

8. It's what happens when you ignore safety warnings and then replace union workers

with scabs

[mopinko]

10. maybe.

but twice?

[rpannier]

12. Yes twice. They're likely lucky it hasn't happened more

The producers had been warned about lack of safety protocols on the set, the producers appear to have ignored the warnings

Article on it
https://www.salon.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwins-fatal-film-set-followed-union-workers-outcry-over-safety-issues_partner/

[Groundhawg]

14. Baldwin was the producer

[rpannier]

15. Doesn't change anything

As the article points out, there had been warnings about safety issues and those warnings were ignored
That Baldwin is a producer does not change that at all

[ProfessorGAC]

25. One Of The Producers

Not the sole producer.
That's common with big stars, but when they're actually acting in the movie, they generally cannot be involved in all day to day operations.
A person I know in the movie biz once told me that giving a star producer points involves him/her in casting, location, and screenplay decisions, plus adds points to make taking the role more attractive. Or, it may mean the actor is helping to fund production.
But, when they are starring in their own film, they have very few duties once shooting commences.
So, while he's sure to be included in any civil case, it's unlikely there's any criminal culpability.

[keithhs28]

52. Agreed - there were many other

producers - besides Mr. Baldwin, IMDb lists 11 other producer positions for the movie:
co-producer
executive producer
producer
executive producer
executive producer
producer
producer
executive producer
producer
executive producer
producer

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11001074/fullcredits/

[marie999]

5. Maybe now actors will check the weapon when it is handed to them.

[LiberatedUSA]

7. Everyone should do that.

If somebody hands you a gun, check the chamber.

[oneshooter]

17. Most actors do not know HOW to check a weapon. And see no need to learn, that is what

"safety officers " and armorers are for.

[forgotmylogin]

21. On a Western set with firearms, surely there should be some pre-production training for the actors.

I agree, one would hope the armorer should be involved in instructing the actors they're handing weapons to about basic safety.

[Aussie105]

56. Yes, training.

5 minute rundown, actor(s) and armorer:

Armorer: When I hand you a gun on set, never take my word for anything. Check it yourself. Or watch me check it in front of you.

I read somewhere the armorer had 3 identical guns. Handed Alec the wrong one? But why have a loaded gun on set in the first place?
And no quick check before handing it over?

Time will tell us a lot. But the young armorer's career has come to a sudden end, I'd say.

[Karma13612]

59. For this tragic accident, I read

Somewhere that it was not the armourer who handed the gun to Alec at that moment.

The AD handed it to him saying “cold gun” or something to that effect.

It was not that young armorer that now some in the media are calling too inexperienced.
But, maybe she WILL decide her time as an armorer is over. She doesn’t have to follow in her dad’s footsteps.

[Calista241]

75. Some films will send actors to hang out for weeks with the military.

In some cases they even participated in exercises to acquire their skills. Spending 10 minutes on gun safety doesn't seem like it would be that arduous an ask.

[Groundhawg]

60. Any actor that picks up a gun or gets into a car needs to practice known safety practices

No exceptions.

[yaesu]

11. what i understand is union workers walked off the set, they brought in non union replacements

so they were new, maybe not up on their game.

[SheltieLover]

24. That's what I'd read too, but

Mr. Bill said the 2 who were shot were the only union workers on site (#20 above).

[wnylib]

46. That leads me to think of questions

that I can't answer since I was not there and don't have enough information. The questions that come to my mind would sound like speculation at best, and CT at worst.

But I remember that, as a child in the 1950s, there were some really ugly incidents in my hometown over squabbles between striking union members and scabs. I am a union supporter and have belonged to unions, as did both of my parents, so I know that things can get really heated and escalate in situations like that. I remember seeing seeing dozens of police squad cars in a row racing through town, lights flashing, on their way to a strike site.

I do not know what went wrong on that set so I am NOT claiming to know what did happen, but the hostility between the two sets of workers while two members of the original crew remained on the job is worth looking into, which I am sure has occurred to investigators, too.

[SheltieLover]

49. For sure, Wyn!

My dad was a very dedicated union steward, so I have a similar background, with similar suspicions.

I obviously wasn't there either, but why was real, "live" ammo on a film site at all?.

I suppose it will all ckme out...

[wnylib]

51. My father was also a union steward for

many years, but eventually was promoted into management. Took him a while to see things from a different perspective!

Meantime, when my mother went back to work, she went to a company in the same type of business. My parents had met at work, but she wouldn't (also couldn't) go back to the same company and work under my father.

So for a while, my father was in management for one company while my mother was a union member for a competitor of my father's company. The companies made the same end product, but used different materials, so they were not quite direct competitors. It made for some interesting dinner conversations at home, but they worked it out.

[SheltieLover]

55. I'll bet those were interesting dynamics!

[JI7]

13. Couldn't they just use total fakes and then just edit the scenes

by making it look real.

[Ford_Prefect]

16. That's what they were supposed to be doing in this scene.

Whoever laid out the weapons and told the AD they were cold is responsible.

[LisaL]

26. Assistant Director is supposed to check the weapons before handing them to actors.

NT

[Ford_Prefect]

32. Along with whomever prepped the weapons since they were never supposed to be armed with live ammo.

All weapons on set are supposed to be kept unloaded and safe. Any blank ammunition would only be loaded immediately prior to use in the scene, presumably by the armorer. An AD doesn't handle live ammunition.

[LisaL]

35. Yep, armorer is supposed to load the weapons with blanks.

And check the weapons prior to providing them for the scene.

[getagrip_already]

23. wouldn't be the first time an angry worker sabotaged a workplace

To make a point.

But it is unlikely in this case since a third party was supposed to check the rounds. I think i read where a live round won't fit into a prop weapon. The prop guns have incompatible chambers. They require special rounds which are supposed to be inert or blank.

So to be intentional, someone would have had to load powder, a projectile, and a primer into an inert round, and then slip it onto the set.

[LisaL]

27. This particular weapon was a historical revolver, thus exempt from these regulations.

NT

[ProfessorGAC]

29. Yesterday, Someone Posted...

...that some directors & cinematographers won't use dummies because they insist on screen authenticity.
As a result, the "prop" is often a real gun.
What I'd like to know is that given the state of CGI & Foley work, why the gun has to have any bullets.
The flash & bang can be added post-production. If they did that, the risk of accident would be nearly zero.

[BigmanPigman]

48. Rachel Maddow brought that up on her show.

They could have used film technology to add the blast and make it look real. She showed a good example. She said that some film makers don't want to do this since the scene isn't as authentic as firing a real weapon. Something to do with the force of the blast making the actor jolt backwards, etc.

[TheRickles]

58. That makes no sense.

If they want really authentic scenes, then shouldn't the movie bad guys get shot with real weapons and really get killed? I have a feeling these standards of authenticity are going to change rather quickly.

[Mawspam2]

31. There seems to be plenty of culpability to go around.

But ultimately, the fault lies with Baldwin.

There should have been a safety meeting on the first day at location where basic weapon safety was laid out. Who was in charge of the weapons. Who was allowed to touch the weapons. Cover basic safety protocols such as: treat every weapon as if it is loaded. If someone hands you a weapon, assume it is lethal even if they say it is safe. NEVER put your finger on the trigger. ALWAYS point the weapon at the ground. If equipped, make sure the safety is on.

Reportedly, one or more of the three weapons on set somehow discharged unexpectedly. That or those weapons should have immediately been isolated and locked up until an expert could determine why they fired and deemed then safe. Until safe, that weapon should never have made its way to Alec Baldwin hand.

How many acting roles has Alec Baldwin had where he handled weapons? There should have been a safety meeting on each of those sets. Every time he should have been told treat every weapon as lethal and never point it at anyone. Did he ignore every one of those safety meetings?

[Jon King]

33. This!, every film script says "act as if all weapons real and live".

Love his politics, do not like his temper. In this case he may be totally responsible. Many sets have different types of ammo on them. Right at the top of any film script that has weapons is a list of warnings. "Treat all weapons as if they are real. Do not put your finger on the trigger until ready to shoot. Know your target and what is beyond it".

Basically anyone who has had any firearms training would have gotten these same warnings. Once the director or prop person handed Baldwin the gun, he should have acted as if he was holding a loaded weapon.

What remains to be seen is if he actually pulled the trigger or if the weapon discharged accidentally as it was handed to him. Authorities can check the weapon for flaws but there are witnesses who can also tell them if Baldwin pulled the trigger without knowing his target and what was beyond it.

[LisaL]

34. There was no target.

Weapon given to him was supposed to have been empty, and supposed to have been checked by several people to make sure its empty.

[JudyM]

36. How did a live round even get into the gun?

It’s so basic to check a weapon when it arrives on set, and it seems like there should be no live ammo on set otherwise. Really peculiar.

[LisaL]

37. TMZ claims the guns were also being used for target practice using live bullets.

NT

[JudyM]

38. SMH. All the more reason to double check.

Something seems off with this, right?! Maybe just negligence but

[LisaL]

39. Sounds like safety wasn't a priority.

If crew was using the guns for target practice with live bullets, then returning them to be used on the set, bullet could have remained in the gun. The armorer is supposed to check the guns. In this case the armorer had little experience (it was her second movie in which she was the head armorer).
It was a low budget movie and it appears corners were cut.

[JudyM]

41. This just is so fundamental, experienced or not... it's a stunning omission.

Assuming that’s what it was.

[LisaL]

42. It's clearly a very bad practice to use guns for target practice with live bullets, then

return those guns to the movie set. This should have never been allowed.

[SheltieLover]

50. This!👆

I've been wondering this, too!

[JudyM]

53. Here's another thread seeking to figure it out

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215977554

[SheltieLover]

54. Ty!

This substantiates my perspective. So weird!

[truthisfreedom]

40. "Live rounds" in the movie business mean BOTH bullets and blanks.

Anything that goes bang is a live round.

[LisaL]

43. This should have been an empty gun with no bullets or blanks.

Clearly it wasn't.

[SpankMe]

44. Might be the beginning of the end for blank-guns in moviemaking

These aren't "prop" guns, really. The phasers in Star Trek were prop guns. The gun in this case was likely a fully operational, "real" gun that is, by protocol, only to be used with blank charges. If loaded with a live round, it would probably fire the bullet properly.

Given the ease and high quality of CGI it won't add much expense to movie companies to use a truly fake gun with an internal spring and counterweight to manifest the recoil, and then add the muzzle flash and sound with CGI in post.

[NCjack]

45. I don't expect guns to disappear from movies. But, this simple action

could reduce the number of mistakes with hot guns.

The actor receiving a declared cold gun cock it and fire it 10 times at the presenter.

[orangecrush]

47. Wh are live rounds on any movie set?

There is absolutely no need for them, when blanks can be used.

Damage from impacting rounds can be faked convincingly.

Brandon Lee, now this..

[Aussie105]

57. Why?

Well, it's America.
New Mexico, to be precise.
Way out in the wilderness, to be more precise.
Got to do some target practice in your down time, right?
It's the American way!

Three sorts of guns:
1. Plastic versions of current and futuristic guns. Complete with spring and weight to mimic recoil when you pull the trigger.
2. A real gun, but chambers altered to only take blanks.
3. A real gun capable of taking a real bullet.

Visiting a relative in Dutch Flat, California, decades ago, cabin out in the woods.
Me sees Colt 45 on sideboard.
Picks it up gingerly - I should have asked first - keeping it pointed away from others. Owner looks worried, but says nothing.
I flick open the gun, check it's unloaded.
Yep, look down the barrel to see if it is clean.
Yep, close it up.
Pull back the hammer. Owner looks worried.
I lower the hammer gently and put it down.
Yep, it's real, but safe.

Now it's the first and only time I've handled one.
But gun safety? It's a no brainer!

Alec, you let yourself down. You trusted others when you shouldn't.

Guns are so common - too common - in American society that people are complacent about them.

[orangecrush]

74. 1970

At age 13, to get my hunting license, I took a hunters safety class and marksmanship training course (sponsored by the US Army) at the local sportsman's club.

We shot real ,22 Army issue match rifles, single shot bolt action with bull barrels and peep sights, in an indoor 25 yard range, after 2 hours of classroom safety training.

Two lessons were hammered home into our young brains -

1. EVERY GUN IS A LOADED GUN


2. NEVER HAVE YOUR MUZZLE POINTED AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO SHOOT

[hunter]

62. Actual guns and other weapons should be banned from all film sets.

It ought to be a union rule, it ought to be an insurance rule.

All the flash and bang can be added in post-production, just like the phasers in Star Trek or the blasters in Star Wars.

Just as there is a humane society notice at the end of a movie that no animals were harmed in production, there ought to be a notice that no actual weapons were used.

[Steelrolled]

65. You might be right.

But with all of the explosions, car crashes, human falls, etc., done in films, you would think you could they could figure out how to prevent having real bullets in guns.

I wonder whether there is a lot of nepotism in Hollywood, when it comes to hiring crew. It's not what you know, it's who you know.

[marie999]

63. Why were there live rounds in any of the weapons on the table and

why did the AD pick up the weapon from the table instead of the armorer?

[Steelrolled]

64. Seems odd to yell out "cold gun" - was that a warning?

You would think there are a lot of people in America with lots of experience with guns - but not one on this set.

[TxGuitar]

66. It is protocol

apparently to let the cast/crew know that a weapon is not loaded, but that the weapon is a real gun

[Steelrolled]

68. Well if anything good comes out of this

it will be much stricter protocols for handling guns, and using fake guns whenever possible. Of course I would have thought that would have happened after previous killings.

[DENVERPOPS]

67. It sounds, more and more,

like a set up to make Baldwin look bad. Or maybe some other nefarious reason........

[Karma13612]

70. You and I both..

That counter or table top or prop table, or whatever, where those weapons were being held, were obviously accessible by anyone.

And I am guessing when the union crew walked off, and the non-union crew took over was a perfect time for someone to mess with those props/weapons.

In my way of thinking, with limited understanding of the way things operate on a set, I would suggest that the armorer needed to have complete oversite of those weapons. I mean, eyes on them, or lock them in a safe until the moment needed.

Maybe when the union crew walked off, maybe they should have asked for a local sheriff to watch the weapons and assure their safety and ‘chain of care’.

This is a lot more convoluted than we are being led to believe.

[Steelrolled]

71. I don't know. I am a believer in the phrase

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

[BobTheSubgenius]

69. How do guns used in movies even have the potential to fire live rounds?

[scarytomcat]

73. with all that prop guy should have checked

before making such an announcement