Gov. Chris Christie: Atlantic City is on its own until at least 7AM tomorrow
Source: Bloomberg TV
Christie says state is unable to send in rescue crews.
Says anyone who is still in Atlantic City area should evacuate to higher ground in the buildings they are in.
Had harsh words for the Mayor of Atlantic City and/or other local officials who apparently said his people were not being forced to evacuate.
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louis-t
(23,295 posts)
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)The salvage of flotsam and jetsam...
That's the Romney Way.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)The governor has thanked BO for his support. The governor has ordered mandatory evacuation. I have NO PROBLEM with him telling people that do not heed the warnings that they are on their own. This is entirely different from someone who, from the beginning of a crisis, tells people they must go it "alone".
While I don't care for Christie, here I agree with I'm. He has told the residents of AC they are on their own until the worst of the storm has passed.
What else would you want him to say or do?
adigal
(7,581 posts)And most shelters take pets now, too.
funkhowser1
(43 posts)Well, not at the majority of shelters at least. Nevermind not having enough shelter space to accommodate all the individuals in low lying "A" evacuation areas. The lack of taking pets is why many individuals do not evacuate or evacuate and abandon their animals at home. I was very surprised to hear NY and NJ officials announce bring your pets. Why can't we do that in FL? The SPCA nor the Humane Society has the space to accommodate evacuated animals and in a city the size of St. Petersburg, there are about two special needs shelters for people with medical needs (say dialysis patients) and approximately only two shelters that will allow animals, and that's with preregistration. During Hurricane Charlie a few years back projected for a direct hit at St. Pete, it veered right below Sarasota and hit .... gosh, I can't remember the city's name, possibly Punta Gorda, my brother came over with his dog and my wife and children evacuated and he and I stayed home with dogs and cats, even though we were in the "A" zone. We had a ladder in the house and would have gone into the attic if the house held during the storm. Evacuating in land isn't always a great option. In this instance, many people headed to hotels in Orlando, mid-state, only to bear the brunt of Charlie when it hit and tore up the middle of the state. Our best to all affected by this storm. A hurricane in the summer is bad enough, but this with the cold rain and snow would be unbearable.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)...shelters were taking animals.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)They had to be leashed or in carriers or cages.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)
Actionman
(115 posts)Christy lying about the Mayor of Atlantic City when he said the Mayor told HIS PEOPLE (black reference) to stay in the city...
Please read the local story of the press conference by Mayor and City Emergency Management director regarding Atlantic City evacuation plan.
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/press/new_jersey/atlantic-city-evacuating-as-storm-nears-casinos-shut-their-doors/article_7c3396b2-205d-11e2-bf9d-0019bb2963f4.html
Response to Actionman (Reply #16)
Post removed
CitizenPatriot
(3,783 posts)They were took there in buses waiting to be taken to shelters - they can't drive or don't have a way to evacuate on their own, so the city sets up temporary shelter and buses them to main shelters.
"Stupid mayor" is trying to save lives of people without means to evacuate on their own.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)So Christy is lying...I heard Fire crews were in fact rescuing people last night...how could you not?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I suppose.
Beats hell out of serving one's constituents.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I don't care if Christie is right, lives are at stake, and that matters more than politics in my opinion.
adigal
(7,581 posts)I don't. It is stupidity and arrogance to stay. What can you do? The first responders have families too.
Response to adigal (Reply #13)
Aerows This message was self-deleted by its author.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)FFS I went through Katrina and had neighbors that had to pick through dead bodies as first responders. I don't want the first responders to become dead bodies themselves. Gov. Christie and everyone under the sun has advised them to leave low lying areas.
adigal
(7,581 posts)obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)They everyone should have evacuated, and that Christie was right.
wtf
Mr.Turnip
(645 posts)in this case.
It's a shitty situation, and for all his faults I think Christie is doing the best he can at the moment.
At some point, human life matters more than politics.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)What in the hell was that mayor THINKING?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)His actions yesterday were dealing with the people who refused to leave. He got THEM to shelters.
Christie is playing politics with an OLD DEMOCRATIC rival. Disgusting.
TBF
(32,062 posts)I have disagreements with Mr. Christie's treatment of labor but I don't disagree with the way he's handled the past two days. There are plenty of politicians out there being assholes (looking at you Romney) but Christie is trying to lead.
modrepub
(3,495 posts)so the rain may slow down in a couple of hours, but not the wind and tides. High tides are around 8 and the storm center appears to be crossing the coast. Hopefully tomorrow is a better day.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)If you don't heed the words of your Governor and get out when he tells you to evacuate, it IS your fault. President Obama pleaded with the people to listen to their local and state officials. If you don't listen, your life is at stake. Everyone high and low has said that.
The Mayor istead of heeding the warnings, stuck people in shelters. This is what the Gov was upset about.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)From what I have read, the Mayor barely had the buses to get the people to the Shelters, if he had instead used those buses to evacuate people, it meant leaving people behind. Remember we are dealing with people who do NOT own a car, thus how do you get them out??? This same problem happened in New Orleans during Katrina, no one had a plan to get the people without cars out of New Orleans (Actually they was a plan, but depended on using School buses, buses that normally were stored on one of the lowest laying areas of New Orleans and were among the first thing flooded).
Sorry, every coastal city should have a plan to evacuate its citizens, including those without cars. Most don't for the buses they do have, are used to haul people from one end of town to the other, but makes several trips per day over the same route. During an evacuation, the buses gets filled once and then must go somewhere else with those passengers and at best it can come back the next day for another load of passengers. School buses can help, but most school buses haul 4-6 trips of children each day (most two trips, one for grade school, second for high school, some do three, Grade school, Middle School and High School) and like regular buses have to haul one load of passengers instead of the 2-3 it normally hauls. On top of this, a lot of people do NOT use either form of buses, i.e. they walk, and thus are additional load on the buses.
In simple terms, a city needs at least (and probably more) 3 to 5 times the regular buses it uses on a regular day, backed up by 3-5 number of school buses uses on a normal school day, to evacuate these people without cars. These excess buses have to come from somewhere and that is the job of the State for it can find those buses from Cities further inland and shipped them in. The Mayor has no authority of such outside buses, for they are outside his jurisdiction, but the Governor does for he has jurisdiction over the whole state.
Once you accept the fact you can NOT remove them from the city, then the best solution is to use those buses to get people to secure points, which is what the Mayor did. Yes, the better option would have been to remove them, but is seems that was NOT an option, given the resources of the Mayor and the City of Atlantic City.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Not like it fucking snuck up on anybody.
They had DAYS to START by evac'ing the folks who self-identified as being unable to drive away on their own.
DAYS.
Man, when my region gets hit by it's disaster-du-jour, we don't get DAYS of warning. Shit just starts falling over. I WISH we got days of warning.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Closing of the Schools is up to the School Board, or when it is not in session, the School Superintendent. Even if that would happen, it is still NOT enough buses to get the people without cars out of the City.
The Governor could have ordered the buses to get the people out, he could have ordered out the National Guard (Who has buses AND trucks) and sent them in to get as many people out as possible. The Governor did neither.
Yes, the National Guard have buses, to haul troops around to training sites when that is faster then having them go in riding in the back of Trucks. The National Guard also can pay the private contractors it hires to move troops around to go into Atlantic City to haul people out (Private buses are used to transport troops to training cites, a very common way to move Tank and Mechanized Infantry troops from their local armory to where the Tanks and Mechanized Infantry Fighting Vehicles are kept).
Yes I was in the National Guard and we often went by Private bus to where the tanks were kept, not only for our yearly two week drill, but for weekend drills when I was with an Mechanized Infantry unit. When I was a Towed Artillery unit attached to a conventional "leg" infantry division, we transported ourselves by truck and occasionally used National Guard owed buses (One of the members of the unit drove the bus). Thus these type of buses exist as while as trucks. The problem is the MAYOR can ask the GOVERNOR for assistance, but it is the GOVERNOR who can call out the National Guard.
I suspect the same problem that happened in Katrina, the Governor did NOT want to spend STATE revenue to call out the Guard, instead waited for the President to call them out for FEDERAL SERVICE. Remember if the Governor calls out the Guard, it is the STATE that has to pay them, if the Federal Government calls out the Guard, it is the Federal Government that pays the bills. The buses and trucks are probably standing in parking lots waiting around for someone to drive them. The Governor does NOT want to pay for the drivers and instead waiting for the Federal Government to do so.
Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)But no, what are a few of 'those' people's lives if he can score some political points.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Christie does NOT want to have to ask the New Jersey Legislature to increase taxes for anything. This debacle is so bad it requires a massive response, and such a response is expensive and will blow holes into any budget I.e. force New Jersey to increase taxes). Thus Christie is waiting for Obama to assume that this disaster requires a federal response and thus the federal government will pay the bills.
Side note, we in Pennsylvania always joke about the temporary tax imposes on Alcohol after the St Patrick's day Flood of 1936. It was passed to help pay for the cost incurred by that Flood, it was, and still called a Temporary Tax, it is still on the books in 2012 with no plans to repeal it. The Tax is the chief reason Alcohol is more expensive in Pennsylvania that any other state (and if Pennsylvania ever does sell off its State owned Liquor stores, Pennsylvania would retain its name for high price for alcohol, which is due to the high tax more then any other single reason).
Just pointing out the issue is Christie does NOT want to have to ask for more taxes, if he can hold off till Obama decides to do something, all the costs will be incurred by the Federal Government. If Christie moved today, then the State will have to pay the bills and the Federal Government will NOT reimburse the State. Thus the state calling out the National Guard can lead to a tax increase, something Christie does NOT want to have to ask for. Thus Christie rather do nothing then have to ask for a tax increase.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Lanford's actions yesterday were dealing with the people who refused to leave. He got THEM to shelters.
Christie is playing politics with an OLD DEMOCRATIC rival. Disgusting.
QUALITYCONTRoll
(48 posts)....... Governor Chris Christie promises to be the anchor for the entire state...
adigal
(7,581 posts)I can't find it now, but it is in a diary at dailykos.com. 75% of the 9000 residents refused to leave.
Actionman
(115 posts)the republican town of Brigantine that is next to Atlantic City, Brigantine is harder to get to for rescue, one way in and one way out and completely surrounded by ocean and bay water.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)But when people are too stubborn to leave, and then want to blame it on the Governor and the Mayor, whoever when they made a bad choice is an idiot.
Hell, During Katrina, the mayor's wife got her arm broken by flying wood. Who the hell would you have her blame, the Mayor? God? You stay. It is a risk.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)yup he was blunt and to the point...don`t be stupid ---get the hell to higher ground.
i agree with him.
Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)Same issue as with Katrina...many don't have a way to evacuate.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)happyslug
(14,779 posts)Yes, Atlantic City is small, but the area subject to Sandy is quite large, The General rule of thumb is 3 miles a hour walking, thus after 10 hours you can have gone no further then 30 miles (and most people go at slower pace so a much lower level of travel). Now, with today's fully mechanized army the US Army can travel From Barsa to Baghdad (400 miles) From March 20 to April 9, 2003. 15 day to move 400 miles or just over 26 miles per day. Now the US actually went through the desert, so the actual travel distance was longer (Closer to 600 miles) which would make it 40 miles per day.
These are high numbers, remember I am using AVERAGE miles per day, not what a unit can do, some units could have made the trip in one day, but that means arriving in Baghdad without supplies. It is a lot more difficult to haul the supplies to support an army then to move the actual troops. Thus 40 miles per day is FAST, it beat out the fastest offensive of more then 3 days (thus excluding Desert Storm of 1990) by almost twice the miles moved per day (This was 20 miles per day, the movement of the Red Chinese Army into Korea at the end of 1950 and into 1951, driving the US forces in front of it).
Thus the US has the equipment to move a lot of men, material and supplies, quickly, but it is tied in with the US Military and in New Jersey that is the New Jersey National Guard. I suspect the New Jersey National Guard could have pulled these people out, but that would mean a massive spending of money by Governor Christie, money he does NOT want to spend. Thus the issue is NOT that New Jersey did or did not have the means to evacuate these people, but that it was NOT willing to spend the money.
Side note: Desert Storm beats out the Chinese Intervention in Korea on a mile per day basis, but only if you ignore the build up during Desert Shield, and the six week air war before the ground war AND that the ground war lasted less then 100 hours (Which minimized re-supply and re-fueling requirements). Thus it is a bad comparison to the Chinese advance into Korea (Which also took some weeks to prepare but lasted weeks and months NOT days and hours).
Some maneuvers have also beat out the Chinese advance. The best example is the Soviet Maneuver of about 1986 in Siberia. In that war game the Soviet Red Army went the distance from Berlin to Lisbon in a week. That maneuver show how powerful the Red Army was, as the Soviet Union collapsed around it. The US did similar maneuvers, through NOT on the scale of the Soviet Maneuver. It later came out that the Soviet plans for War included not only a dash to Lisbon, but a the North Sea Attack aimed at Birmingham England, to divide Great Britain in half. By the middle 1990s, the Russian Army was barely able to re-take Moscow during the attempted takeover under Yeltsin, that is how far the mighty had fallen.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)People not evacuating are fucking crazy.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)I think she lived near Atlantic City and she said she has ridden out every storm and expects to do the same with this one, so she wasn't going anywhere.
I'm hoping she made it through.
I understand how some people may be reluctant to leave, for whatever reason. But the signs were all there early on that this was going to be a monster storm. You don't fool around with that.
Authorities should tell people point-blank that if they choose not to evacuate, then they are on their own and should take care to have some kind of ID on their person for afterward. Maybe that will make some people think twice about staying put. To ignore warnings and then expect rescuers to put their lives on the line to come and get you is just plain stupid and selfish, IMO.
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)
RobinA
(9,893 posts)He's a leader. Telling people they are on their own in the middle of a disaster is not leading, it's asking for trouble. I'm not saying he should or could be doing anything different, just keep his big mouth shut. When leadership tells people to fend for themselves...they will. And the results may not be pretty. And I'm not saying that people who could leave but don't aren't stupid, I'm saying that leadership isn't about who's stupid and who isn't.
Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)I think he could have done better, and in his actions, we see the GOP plan for all of us...you are on your own..can't help yourself well too bad. I am against this...we are all in this together is a much better way of governing and living.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)Every single hurricane here in NC, people refuse to leave, often tourists renting a house or condo or people who think it would be "fun." The same thing always happens: when the storm hots, they call 911 and want First Responders to come and try to rescue them, even though the rescuers would die in the attempt.
It is not safe, and usually impossible, to attempt a rescue in the middle of a hurricane.
The disabled and elderly are exempt from this rant against the selfish, but they are usually not the ones calling 911 when the storm is no longer "fun."
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Like those who don't have cars. Sounds like that's what the AC mayor was dealing with.
hexola
(4,835 posts)He was all over Christie - and wanted Matt to get him on the air with him - so they could go "mano a mano" on the air...
Not sure they've had Christie on yet...
lynne
(3,118 posts)- there's a lot to disagree with him about but this isn't one of those things. And what he said was the general rule for all of us in the middle of this mess.
You can't send rescuers and repair persons out in the midst of a storm as you are endangering their lives. If you're told to get out and you don't, then you're stuck until the situation improves.
Some places make people sign statements giving their name, next of kin info, and acknowledging that they are aware that no one will come to their rescue in the midst of the storm. Usually that makes them reconsider and evacuate.
I agree with him totally on this aspect.