Argentina hits back at David Cameron over colonialism jibe

[alp227]

Britain and Argentina have revived the rhetoric of the 1980s after David Cameron accused Buenos Aires of adopting a colonial attitude towards the Falkland Islands.

Amid growing tensions ahead of the 30th anniversary of the Argentinian invasion, the prime minister said he called a meeting of Britain's national security council (NSC) on Tuesday, mainly to discuss the islands.

Afterwards, William Hague, the foreign secretary, flew off of a pre-arranged visit to Brazil to raise Britain's concerns over Argentina.

Britain is prepared to increase its military presence in the South Atlantic if Argentina embarks on further provocative measures, though this is seen as highly unlikely.

full: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/19/argentina-david-cameron-colonialism

[Dawson Leery]

1. Britain is no one to condemn colonialism.

[ProgressoDem]

2. Britain doesn't have colonies anymore...

Are they unable, forever, to talk about colonialism? Are the Germans forbidden from speaking out against genocide?

[Fearless]

5. Britain may not call them colonies but they do have "holdings"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories

[Stella_Artois]

8. Which remain so at the determination of the civilians living there

Argentina's claim to the Falklands is through a colonial power in the first place, so they are fine ones to talk about the evils of colonialism.

The Falkland Islanders can talk about armed aggression forcing a fascist regime upon them though, its something many of them have personal experience of. They don't want to be Argentinian. Argentina would best be served by winning their hearts and minds rather than any misguided attempt to kill more of them.

[ProgressoDem]

10. And why can't they have holdings?

Some imperialist power Britain is, with all of those islands with British people on them.

[Fearless]

12. And why are there British people there?

[ProgressoDem]

13. Because they were born there.

And it's their home. Should they all leave because it happens to be close to Argentina and most British people live in Europe?

[Fearless]

14. And where did those British people come from...

My point is that the length of time since the imperialist action does not negate the fact that it happened. The pot is calling the kettle black.

[ProgressoDem]

15. Europeans colonized an uninhabited set of islands.

The British claims won out. And now British people live there, and they want to be British. Why should Argentina get to decide for those British people? That's imperialism.

No, the length of time since Britain colonized the uninhabited islands doesn't negate that it happened. However, it makes it irrelevant in the context of Britain criticizing Argentina for its present-day actions. To say anything else is ad hominem - and it makes no difference that in the past, Britain was an imperial power.

[Fearless]

16. I'm not talking about Argentina. Look at what I said.

[ProgressoDem]

17. I did.

You started out talking about British overseas territories. Is your point that Britain is an imperialist power? That Britain can't criticize Argentina? That Argentina isn't making imperialist actions?

[Fearless]

18. You said "Britain does not have colonies"

The fact is that you can call them whatever you want, but they were colonies when they were colonized and they remain so so long as they are under the control of Britain.

[ProgressoDem]

19. You could argue that they're colonies but...

The Falklands are definitely in a different class than, for instance, British India.

[Fearless]

20. I never mentioned the Falklands.

[ProgressoDem]

21. Okay.

Either way, you gotta acknowledge none of the British Overseas Territories are really in the same category as British India.

[Fearless]

22. Tell that to the people that were there first.

[ProgressoDem]

23. I can't, because they don't exist anymore.

Now there are mostly British people living there. I'm not going to advocate kicking them out of their homes and giving those territories to some neighboring power or severing them from Britain against their wishes. Because if that's what should happen... I'm not sure we know who was there first for every square inch of land on the planet.

[Fearless]

24. Clearly the ends justify the means.

[ProgressoDem]

25. What ends? What means?

What are you talking about? Do you seriously want to kick British people out of their homes in these overseas territories because centuries ago British people settled there and you think they don't belong?

[Fearless]

26. You said Britain didn't have colonies anymore

I corrected you. A colony is still a colony even after the only people who are left are the colonizers. That is all.

[ProgressoDem]

27. Well, not exactly.

Semantically, Britain has several colonies. Effectively, there are varying levels of colonialism. I offered the distinction between colonial rule of unwilling people and people that are the descendants of colonizers. You seemed to disagree that there is a distinction.

[Fearless]

28. I disagree with the notion that it matters.

[Beacool]

29. The Argentines had a garret on the islands.

They were not totally uninhabited. The British did what the British had done for centuries: they took them by force and populated them with their own people.

Furthermore, the British invaded Argentina (when it was still a Spanish colony) twice in the first decade of the 19th century without much success.

[bemildred]

3. Good Lord, not this shit again.

[Beacool]

4. Britain accusing another nation of adopting colonial attitudes????

Britain????????

Oh, that's just too precious!!!!!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. The Malvinas are a bad fantasy

The Falklands belong to the UK and will remain so until the residents choose otherwise. Until then Argentina needs to back off on the national machismo over this.

[friendly_iconoclast]

7. Yeah, but they are useful as a diversion for Argentine governments in trouble.

[Blue_Tires]

9. I suggest the two countries battle it out over a soccer match

[MichaelMcGuire]

11. Greatest ever goal in the history of football

Maradona 'Hand of God'