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Tue Apr 5, 2022, 12:56 PM

Sacramento police make second arrest after mass shooting that left 6 dead

Source: CBS News

Police in Sacramento say a second suspect has been arrested in connection with the weekend mass shooting that killed six people and wounded 12. A police statement Tuesday says 27-year-old Smiley Martin was seriously injured in the gunfire early Sunday and remains hospitalized, but will be booked into jail once he is fit for incarceration.

He faces charges of possession of a firearm by a prohibited person and possession of a machine gun.

Police say Martin is the brother of the first suspect, 26-year-old Dandrae Martin. Neither has been accused of homicide.

Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sacramento-mass-shooting-2nd-arrest-smiley-martin/



Yes, you read that right: Smiley Martin had a MACHINE GUN in downtown Sacramento and he used it on a crowd of people. Full-automatic weapon. Tell me again how guns make us safer.

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Reply Sacramento police make second arrest after mass shooting that left 6 dead (Original post)
maxsolomon Apr 2022 OP
hlthe2b Apr 2022 #1
maxsolomon Apr 2022 #2
olddad65 Apr 2022 #31
Scrivener7 Apr 2022 #34
Chainfire Apr 2022 #3
AllyCat Apr 2022 #5
Chainfire Apr 2022 #6
AllyCat Apr 2022 #9
maxsolomon Apr 2022 #12
Chainfire Apr 2022 #14
AllyCat Apr 2022 #17
sarisataka Apr 2022 #7
maxsolomon Apr 2022 #13
Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #18
RockRaven Apr 2022 #4
oldsoftie Apr 2022 #8
maxsolomon Apr 2022 #10
Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #15
Chainfire Apr 2022 #22
Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #24
Chainfire Apr 2022 #25
Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #26
Zeitghost Apr 2022 #30
Chainfire Apr 2022 #20
oldsoftie Apr 2022 #27
madville Apr 2022 #28
oldsoftie Apr 2022 #29
KS Toronado Apr 2022 #11
Kaleva Apr 2022 #32
Kaleva Apr 2022 #33
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2022 #16
Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #19
IronLionZion Apr 2022 #21
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2022 #38
SouthBayDem Apr 2022 #23
Scrivener7 Apr 2022 #35
Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #36
Scrivener7 Apr 2022 #37

Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 12:59 PM

1. Any word on possible motivation?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 01:06 PM

2. Testosterone?

Sounds like the brothers were in a gun battle.

One assumes this follows the typical "afterhours mass shooting" pattern: clubs don't permit guns, altercations occur inside the club, someone's pride is offended or they are thrown out, guns are retrieved from vehicles, and bullets are fired when the clubs close.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 10:28 PM

31. Alcohol, guns, and gangs.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 6, 2022, 07:52 AM

34. The fetishization of guns in American culture and the feelings of inadequacy

and resulting toxic masculinity of all those who fetish-ize guns?

Just a guess. Based on those being contributors to just about every other incident like this.

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 01:07 PM

3. They are certainly a hazard to one's health

but, contrary to what Hollywood would have us believe the use of machine guns (automatic weapons) in committing crimes is very rare in this country. It is the high-capacity semi-auto weapons that flood the country that are the real and present danger. Semi-automatic weapons are the choice for mass murderers in this country, because they are cheap and readily available at any gun shop, most sporting good stores and the black market is awash with them.

Clip from the WWW:

How often are automatic weapons used in crime?
While no statistics detailing automatic vs. semiautomatic weapons used in crimes exist, since 1934 there are only four known instances of automatic weapons used in crimes where someone was killed. In three of those instances the weapons were legally obtained, with two of them illegally used by law enforcement officers.Sep 11, 2019


I guess this will be number 5.

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 02:09 PM

5. Hollywood??? This is the news man! Every single day in America this is the news!

Doesn't matter if they are used in a crime or not. What flippin' difference does it make if they are "machine guns" or any other kind of gun? Semantics. That is all that is. They are one kind of gun: the killing kind. Using them in this fashion IS A CRIME and we continue to tolerate this garbage to appease the gunhumpers in our country.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 02:21 PM

6. In my opinion, it really does make a difference.

I understand what you are saying, but I believe that you are wrong. If you are attempting to sway someone you are better served by accurate information. You hardly ever want to lead a debate by showing your ignorance of the subject matter, because the moment you are caught out, you and your entire argument has lost all credibility and is open to ridicule. You would apply the same standard to the person you were arguing with, and rightfully so... (unless of course you are a Republican where truth of facts just do not matter.)

It is fine to be passionate about gun control, but that does not relieve you of the responsibility to get the facts right.

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 02:44 PM

9. It doesn't matter how well-versed anyone is on terminology

With the gun nutters. They will parse anything anyone calls a particular type of killing gun and say “well, that’s not an automatic”. That way, they can defect from the reality that their favorite fetish just shattered more lives.

Am I ignorant because of that? Well, to you gun nuts, yes.

But your little toys are a deadly menace. If that makes me ignorant, I welcome the moniker.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 02:56 PM

12. I'm not a gunner; I'm not a gun owner. I never will be. I'm a Well-Regulator.

But the unusual use of a full-automatic (versus a semi-automatic) makes a difference to my mind. You can see the results in the body count.

It's cold comfort, but it's a very good thing that full-automatics are tightly regulated ever since the bootlegging era.

I am always amazed that Gunner Pols let this INFRINGEMENT remain. Why not go after it? Maybe because even Wayne LaPierre thinks full-automatic weapons in the hands of American Yahoos is a bad idea?

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:08 PM

14. Now you have gone over the edge to just being silly.

You know nothing about me, but you accuse me of being a "gun nut", I find that as offensive as if I were to call you some kind of nasty name, which I consider childish, and it would break the policies of this site. Make baseless claims and don't bother to learn the facts, it is no skin off my teeth, but there is no need to throw baseless insults.

Maybe, to illustrate the difference in you and I, I will tell you that although I am an Atheist, I have read the Bible through, cover to cover several times. I hate Nazis with a Passion, but I have (struggled through) Mein Kamph. I think that Stalin was a butcher, so I read his biography. With knowledge comes power, perhaps one day you will acquire the wisdom to understand that.

Please feel free to reply, with more insults, if you wish, but I am done with you on this thread.



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Response to Chainfire (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:13 PM

17. You said I was ignorant.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 02:21 PM

7. The OP highlighted that the report

Says he was in possession of a machine gun which would be extremely unusual to be used in a crime.

Given their records, neither of the two arrested should have been in possession of any guns.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 02:57 PM

13. They were both charged as a "Prohibited Person".

As they should be.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:14 PM

18. Given that you wish to treat all firearms from single shots to machine guns the same, what's your

 

solution?

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 01:07 PM

4. This guy is hospitalized with multiple gunshot wounds (according to another article)

and the first guy arrested is his brother. I suspect not all of the shooters have been arrested yet.

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 02:42 PM

8. Well its illegal to OWN a machine gun except for a very minuscule number of people.

Maybe put this guy away for LIFE (since CA will never actually execute him) and make it a point to mention the FULLY AUTO weapon as a major factor.
The first guy had a record long as your arm, of course.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 02:49 PM

10. You need a license or something.

Apparently not that hard to acquire if you're not a convicted felon; Ted Nugent has them.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:10 PM

15. To own a machine gun legally, you need to pay for a $200 tax stamp and fill out some paperwork.

 

It can take over a year for the paperwork to clear. I went through the same process when I purchased a suppressor.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:38 PM

22. Not only that, but the floor price of a "cheap" machine gun is around $15,000 bucks.

And go way up from there. I had a conversation with a machine gun dealer in the next state, I questioned him about who in the world could afford the types of weapons. His reply was that most of the people who own machineguns are white collar folks; Lawyers, doctors, architects, etc. and that most of his customers had multiples.

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:52 PM

24. If only I'd had the foresight (and money at the time) to buy half a dozen Mac-10's or Sten Guns

 

before 1986, when the supply became fixed. If I'm not mistaken, they were going for something in the neighborhood of $800 or so back then. Hell, you could get a selective fire M16 for under $2K.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #24)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 04:05 PM

25. At the end of WWII you could have probably bought these NIB

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #25)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 04:13 PM

26. Check out this ad from 1977:

 



Mac-10's for $275. MG-42: $950. Even taking inflation into account, these cost around 10 times as much today.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 09:30 PM

30. Not in CA

Unless you owned them pre-ban. They can not be bought or sold in CA.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:29 PM

20. Don't you suspect that this was a backroom conversion?

I didn't see the weapon involved.

The Feds will step in on the machine gun charge. What ever he is convicted for in Ca. will probably have at least another ten years tacked on by them. The Feds don't play with machine gun violations. These characters are most likely permanently out of circulation. Their future weapons will be a bar of soap in a sock.

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 05:27 PM

27. I'd also like to see if it really WAS a full auto machine gun.

The news has been wrong on that terminology many times. I've seen shotguns called "fully automatic". I saw, on the news, someone refer to a shotgun as an AR15 in a video!

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 06:47 PM

28. This illegally converted gun wouldn't be legal for any citizen to own

It’s already illegal to own an illegally modified machine gun under federal law and laws in all 50 states. Murder and attempted murder are also already illegal. Unfortunately this isn’t something that can be fixed with more laws that criminals simply ignore.

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Response to madville (Reply #28)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 09:15 PM

29. I agree. But do we know for sure what was actually used?

I still haven't seen anything but what was referred to in the article

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 02:51 PM

11. Machine guns are difficult to own in this country

Wonder if it was an AR15 style (the kind we should outlaw) that was modified into a M16 military version?
It is unlawful to do so.

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Response to KS Toronado (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 6, 2022, 05:15 AM

32. Bump fire can turn most any semi-auto rifle into a gun that approximates a machine gun.

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Response to KS Toronado (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 6, 2022, 05:43 AM

33. Reading other threads, the weapon was a pistol that had been converted into an automatic.

"He was arrested Tuesday morning at a Sacramento hospital on charges of being a felon in possession of a firearm and possession of a stolen handgun that was converted to be a fully automatic weapon."

https://news.yahoo.com/sacramento-shooting-suspect-got-prison-210740581.html

"Tiny 'Glock Switches' Have Quietly Flooded the US With Deadly Machine Guns"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=318143

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:10 PM

16. From MSN...

A stolen firearm used in the mass shooting in Sacramento on Sunday was converted to be used as a fully automatic weapon, police said.

Authorities did not offer more details about the weapon. But it is possible to convert a handgun into a automatic weapon that can fire like a machine gun.

There had been suspicion that an automatic weapon was used in the shooting because video of the incident recorded rapid fire. When the gunfire was over, 18 people had been wounded, six fatally.

Officials estimate at least 100 shots were fired.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/photos-stolen-firearm-used-in-the-mass-shooting-in-sacramento-converted-to-fully-automatic-weapon/ar-AAVT7F0?ocid=hplocalnews


I'm not sure about the mention of a handgun and the conversion to auto. I am aware of the Glock 18 which is full-auto from the factory and generally not available in the US.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:20 PM

19. My guess (and it's only that) is that they modified the stolen handgun with a highly illegal auto

 

sear. One can even 3D-print them these days. This would make the pistol full auto only, not selective fire.

I am aware of the Glock 18 which is full-auto from the factory and generally not available in the US.


There's also the Beretta 93R and Soviet Stechkin machine pistols. Like the Glock 18, they're extraordinarily rare in the US.

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:31 PM

21. Sounds like a random mass shooting. The victims weren't connected to each other

so another day in America. Gunners would say a good guy with a gun would shoot the bad guys or some nonsense like that. I'd like to make it harder for bad guys but what do I know.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 6, 2022, 02:23 PM

38. They think more likely a shootout between rivals

Sacramento massacre was likely a shootout among rivals, not mass shooting, sources say

SACRAMENTO — Sunday’s eruption of gunfire near the state Capitol, which left six dead and a dozen wounded, appears to be a result of a fight between rivals that caught bystanders in a crossfire of automatic and semi-automatic weapons fire, law enforcement sources said Tuesday.
...
Police said they are still piecing together what happened in the early hours of Sunday morning as crowds of people were departing downtown bars and nightclubs. But they have said that a man in a car drove up 10th Street near the K Street Mall and unleashed a sustained barrage of bullets. At least one other person also fired a gun, killing two young women, three fathers and an unhoused woman well known in the neighborhood. Twelve others were hospitalized for gunshot wounds, some of them transporting themselves because there were not enough ambulances.
...
Among them is one posted just hours before the shooting featuring Smiley Martin wielding a stolen fully automatic weapon found at the crime scene, according to law enforcement sources. That post has since been taken off social media.
...
Based on social media accounts, one of those shot and killed, Joshua Hoye-Lucchesi, 32, appeared to be friends with the Martins, posting a photo with Smiley just last month.

Hours before the shooting, Hoye-Lucchesi uploaded videos on Instagram showing him and others brandishing weapons, including a gun with a red laser.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-04-06/sacramento-massacre-likely-a-shootout-sources-say

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Tue Apr 5, 2022, 03:45 PM

23. Suspect in Sacramento mass shooting was out of prison despite 10-year term

Smiley Allen Martin, the second man arrested in the wake of Sunday’s mass shooting in Sacramento that killed six, has a criminal record stretching to 2013 and last year was the subject of a plea by Sacramento County District Attorney Anne Marie Schubert’s office that he not win early release from prison, where he was serving a 10-year sentence for domestic violence and assault with great bodily injury.

Despite a two-page letter to the Board of Parole Hearings urging that Martin remain in custody, he won his release and was in Sacramento on Saturday night recording himself on a Facebook Live video brandishing a handgun hours before the shooting.

On Tuesday, Sacramento police arrested Martin at a hospital after he was injured in the shooting. He faces charges of possession of a machine gun and possession of a firearm by a prohibited person. A law enforcement source confirmed the machine gun is a handgun that was found at the scene Sunday that had been converted to be capable of firing as an automatic weapon.


California corrections officials did not immediately provide details of Martin’s history in the prison system Tuesday, but the letter to the parole board came as Schubert’s office and 44 other DAs were preparing to sue the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation over policies that they say would result in the “early release” of 76,000 inmates statewide.


Full story: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article260131840.html

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2022, 07:59 AM

35. I see all the tired old arguments about why these incidents are inevitable

have already been spewed by the usual suspects.

Most of those arguments boil down to, "If I can just shut the arguments up with the talking points the NRA has given me, I can totally ignore the murders my little hobby causes every day."

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 6, 2022, 01:40 PM

36. What's your solution, then? It appears the gun used was an ordinary pistol that had been illegally

 

modified into a machine pistol. What legislation do you propose?

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 6, 2022, 02:15 PM

37. If there truly WERE any responsible gun owners in the USA, THEY would be the ones

proposing legislation that would stop the daily murders that result from their little hobby.

But there aren't.

There are just the NRA-talking-point-spouting morons who show up at every discussion to make the same old arguments that ensure the murders continue.

If multiple people were being murdered EVERY DAY as a result of my hobby, you can bet I would be the one insisting on changes and not demanding that other people create solutions to the problem I, and those like me, created.

I don't know how they sleep at night. Because their vociferous spouting of those NRA arguments at every opportunity tells me that, deep down, they are fully aware of their complicity.

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