Former Nazi camp secretary found guilty of complicity in 10,500 murders

[mysteryowl]

Last edited Tue Dec 20, 2022, 11:52 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: The Guardian/US

A 97-year-old former secretary at a Nazi concentration camp has been found guilty of complicity in the murder of more than 10,500 people imprisoned there, and handed a two-year suspended sentence.

Irmgard Furchner, who has been on trial in the northern German town of Itzehoe for more than a year, spoke to the court on one occasion earlier this month to say she was sorry for what had happened, but stopped short of admitting her guilt.
[snip]
She is the first civilian woman in Germany to have been held responsible for crimes committed in a Nazi concentration camp.

The judge, Dominik Gross, said the trial would be "one of the worldwide last criminal trials related to crimes of the Nazi era" and took the unusual step of allowing the proceedings to be recorded for "historical purposes".

The trial, which took place over 40 days of sessions of about two hours' duration due to the accused's advanced age, heard from 30 survivors and relatives of prisoners of Stutthof from the US, France, Austria and the Baltic states.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/20/nazi-camp-secretary-irmgard-furchner-stutthof-germany

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Germany never stops pursuing justice. Good for them!

The article has a picture of the convicted Nazi and she clearly has shame by covering all of herself up for the cameras.

[GreenWave]

1. Judge Gross is wrong about the end of Nazi trials.

They are beginning anew in many places.

[mysteryowl]

3. I read it as the last "global" trial

[karynnj]

4. I suspect it comes down to how you define NAZI. I think he is free-range to the very specific

regime led by Hitler in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s. As such, it is clear that very few of the guilty are still alive. It is good he was able to get it recorded for history.

[GreenWave]

6. I get the exact reading of it.

Those Nazis killed more than 50,000,000 people. Today's Nazis were not alive then which is why they need to be nipped in the bud. When I was kid a study came out with statements from actual Nazis and the Republican students back then overwhelmingly agreed with them. So those seeds were firmly planted.

[cstanleytech]

11. Only if they go after people that were in the Hitler Youth as children.

Otherwise the ability to put anyone on trial that was 18 is slim as they would be around 95 now and the the odd of finding more at that age or older is low.

[Zeitghost]

16. This woman was tried in juvenile court

I honestly don't see much justice being served when a then teenage civilian woman served as a secretary who likely had little to no choices being rounded up at 97.

[cstanleytech]

18. So they are now going after children?

[3catwoman3]

2. "Perusing"? Pursuing, maybe?

2yr suspended sentence is not even a slap on the wrist.

[JudyM]

10. The body is old but she still supported the regime. 2 years is 2 short, no matter her age.

Unless she was forced to work in support of this death camp, she demonstrated an abject lack of compassion, willingly supporting that most cruel inhumanity, and helped to keep things going at the pace it did.

[Zeitghost]

17. How much free will

Did a teenage girl have in the Nazi regime? I'm not 100% sure, but I doubt it was much.

[JudyM]

21. There's nothing in the story suggesting she was forced or even pressured, that would be a defense

after all.

[Zeitghost]

22. I'm not sure a single news story is an extensive report

And even if it was, she knew the cost of standing up to one of the most horrific governments in history whether they made it explicit or not.

She was a child, expecting her to stand up to the Nazi's is crazy, punishing her in juvenile court at 97 is absolutely insane.

Like someone said in the thread, if she is responsible, so is every German of a certain age who wasn't active in a resistance movement.

[JudyM]

23. Please.

An 18/19 year old is not a child who doesn’t know right from wrong. An 18 year old knows murder, depravity and torture when she sees it. There’s a world of difference. If you wouldn’t know the difference at 18 then I don’t know what to say. There is no mention of any such defense, as I said. Her defense is that she wasn’t aware of it (despite evidence to the contrary) NOT that she was pressured, which she would certainly claim to save herself at THIS point in time.
The judge’s statement, from the BBC report:” Presiding judge Dominik Gross said it was "beyond imagination" that Furchner could not have noticed the smoke and stench of mass killing: "The defendant could have quit at any time."”
I supposed 18 year old actual nazis should not be guilty, either, by extension of that argument…
Also from the BBC report: ” After the war, Furchner married an SS squad leader called Heinz Furchstam whom she probably met at the camp.”

[Zeitghost]

27. Sure, she could have quit at any time

I'm sure she could have voiced her concerns and told the Nazi she was no longer interested in participating and they would have let her walk off with no repercussions for her or her family.


If you truly believe that, nothing I say will get through,


This is not justice.

[JudyM]

28. She applied for the job. She married an SS squad leader.

Her defense of lack of knowledge was all she had, and it was disproved.

There was devastatingly horrific torture and murder of a massive scale going on. She was assisting the camp commander. Yet she is the victim here…?

[Solly Mack]

5. K&R

Only shithole countries with shithole people refuse to go after their war criminals.

[mysteryowl]

9. Plus...America

The ICC wanted to prosecute US soldiers for war crimes and the US (Trump) withdrew our participation in the Hague and prevented the trials.

[DENVERPOPS]

14. Like the U.S. ????

Cheney and Rumsfeld immediately come to mind........

[Evolve Dammit]

15. yep. We sure did.

[Pachamama]

7. FYI - German privacy and health laws

Protect people from even when arrested or on trial having their last names identified with anything but your first initial of your last name. They also allow you to protect your identity and cover your face with folders or anything handy when cameras are allowed in the court room briefly.

You mention that the convicted has no shame and is covering herself up for the cameras - she would be allowed to do that under German law - but in this case each picture shows her wearing an FF2 (N95) mask which is required by all people in a courtroom.

[IronLionZion]

8. No statue of limitation on mass murder over there

No excuses for mental illness or young age or whatever.

[bearsfootball516]

12. These can be a little tough for me to judge

Obviously you want everybody associated with the Nazi's to reap what they sowed.

In this case, she was an 18-year-old secretary. Means when she grew up in Nazi Germany, she was a child/teenager. It's possible she really didn't know what she was doing, or was basically forced into the secretary position.

Like I said, everyone deserves to held accountable. But it's hard to go back 78 years and know how culpable an 18 year old girl was.

[Trenzalore]

13. Do we put every soldier on trial that served in the Nazi army?

I think they are reaching for war criminals. All those who are truly responsible for the crimes there are mainly dead. Going after a 97 year old secretary seems a bit much.

Germany as a nation outside the partisans all had responsibility for Hitler either explicitly by supporting the regime or implicitly by not resisting. Do you put everyone on trial that was not in the resistance who was 18 in 1944?

[waddirum]

30. You really don't see the importance of this trial?

It shows that these types of crimes will be prosecuted no matter how much time passes. It was vitally important for survivors to be able to testify in a court of law.

[Trenzalore]

31. If she was a guard or someone with actual responsibility, yes

Is there a janitor still alive we can put on trial?

[waddirum]

34. a secretary keeping tally on human hair production

is not a damn janitor.

[Trenzalore]

35. I fail to see the point in indicting 97 year old secretaries.

Again, if she was a guard or someone in charge of the camp, yes. The entire German people have responsibility for that war. Indict everyone that was 18 in 1944 if it makes you feel better.

[waddirum]

36. Because a trial for her crimes is absolutely necessary.

Last edited Thu Dec 22, 2022, 12:33 AM - Edit history (1)

The fact that not every nazi involved in crimes was also charged doesn’t excuse it. She got a suspended sentence due to her age and health. That is the mercy from the court that she deserves. But the trial was 100% necessary. The survivors and family of the victims deserve to give testimony at a criminal trial.

[Slammer]

20. ridiculous

Last edited Tue Dec 20, 2022, 09:34 PM - Edit history (1)

I'd also like to point out that civilian Germany was going through food shortages and there was no government provision to feed needy civilians that I've ever read of.

She might have fully supported the Nazis. Or she might have hated the Nazis but had parents and/or kids at home who depended on her bringing home a paycheck so they could buy food and pay rent.

At this point, for all we know, she could have helped point out war criminals to the liberating Soviet soldiers and have helped them recover records.

It's not like the Soviet officers are around to show up in court and vouch for her or that they kept meticulous records while they were busy pursuing German forces.

This is just a ridiculous number of years to go between the alleged crimes she committed and the prosecution of those crimes. If there were any exculpatory evidence, the people who used to know it have been dead for decades.

Hell, if she herself knew exculpatory evidence to defend herself, there's every possibility that she would no longer remember it.

My great-grandmother was a very sharp lady mentally. But by the time she got to be 96, she could still have a conversation...but not on whatever topic you might be wanting to talk about.

[FakeNoose]

19. She would have been born in 1925

World War 2 started in 1939 and she's 16 years old.

She wasn't in the military, so how much authority did civilian women have to stop the Holocaust from happening? None! There was no chance that any Nazis would have given this young woman the time of day. They probably hated even having her in the camp but the men were all out fighting, so they needed to hire some women for clerical duties.

Now she gets blamed for the Holocaust because the men are all dead? Oh my God this is a miscarriage of justice.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

24. Give me a break.

This has nothing to do with sexism.

“It is my belief that it would have been impossible for Furchner not to have known what was going on there, as she claims. Everything was documented and progress reports, including how much human hair had been harvested, sent to her office,” he said.

Fuck her!

[Behind the Aegis]

25. "Now she gets blamed for the Holocaust because the men are all dead?"

Oh wait, you were being serious.

Classic, but completely pathetic, strawman.

Was she stripped naked and made to take a "delousing shower"? Was she forced into back-breaking labor? Was she shot on sight because of her advanced age? What she crammed into an oven and then have her ashes scattered to the winds? Hmmm.

No, she wasn't! She was taken into custody not for WHO she is but WHAT she did! She was tried in a court of law! She was found GUILTY for her ACTIONS not for WHO she is! She lived her life, until now, in FREEDOM! She got to LIVE!

"miscarriage of justice." Yeah, no!

[waddirum]

32. did you read the article?

She is a murderous war criminal! Justice doesn’t have an expiration date.

[myohmy2]

26. not sure...

...how significant it was to end up with a two year suspended sentence but I applaud Germany for the pursuit...

...although Germany was guilty of many horrific crimes during the Nazi era I see Germany today as an 'Ebenezer Scrooge' nation...

...IMO, their acknowledgement and transformation from 'evil' to 'enlightenment' is remarkable...

...of how many other nations can that be said...

[waddirum]

33. the trial and the testimony were vitally necessary

The suspended sentence reflects the reality of the defendant’s age and health, and is ultimately humane. But the charge and sentence are vitally necessary.

[maxsolomon]

29. Good. A tad late, but good.

Accountability is for everyone.