US downs Chinese balloon, drawing a threat from China

[BumRushDaShow]

Last edited Sat Feb 4, 2023, 08:29 PM - Edit history (7)

Source: AP

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. military on Saturday shot down a suspected Chinese spy balloon off the Carolina coast after it traversed sensitive military sites across North America. China insisted the flyover was an accident involving a civilian aircraft and threatened repercussions.

President Joe Biden issued the order but had wanted the balloon downed even earlier, on Wednesday. He was advised that the best time for the operation would be when it was over water, U.S. officials said. Military officials determined that bringing it down over land from an altitude of 60,000 feet would pose an undue risk to people on the ground.

China responded that it reserved the right to “take further actions” and criticized the U.S. for “an obvious overreaction and a serious violation of international practice.” In its statement Sunday, China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that “China will resolutely uphold the relevant company’s legitimate rights and interests, and at the same time reserving the right to take further actions in response.”

The presence of the balloon in the skies above the U.S. this week dealt a severe blow to already strained U.S.-Chinese relations that have been in a downward spiral for years. It prompted Secretary of State Antony Blinken to abruptly cancel a high-stakes Beijing trip aimed at easing tensions.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/politics-united-states-government-china-antony-blinken-51e49202f2a0a50541cde059934c4cfb

---

Article updated.

Previous article/headlines -

US downs Chinese balloon, a flashpoint in US-China tensions

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The U.S. military on Saturday shot down a suspected Chinese spy balloon off the Carolina coast on orders from President Joe Biden after it traversed sensitive military sites across North America, the latest flashpoint in tensions between Washington and Beijing.

Biden wanted the balloon downed on Wednesday but was advised that the best time for the operation would be when it was over water, U.S. officials said. Military officials determined that bringing it down over land from an altitude of 60,000 feet would pose an undue risk to people on the ground.

The presence of the balloon in the skies above the U.S. this week dealt a severe blow to already strained U.S.-Chinese relations that have been in a downward spiral for years. It prompted Secretary of State Antony Blinken to abruptly cancel a high-stakes Beijing trip aimed at easing tensions.

"They successfully took it down and I want to compliment our aviators who did it," Biden said after getting off Air Force One en route to Camp David. The giant white orb was spotted Saturday morning over the Carolinas as it approached the Atlantic coast. About 2:39 p.m. EST, an F-22 fighter jet fired a missile at the balloon, puncturing it while it was about 6 nautical miles off the coast near Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, senior defense officials said.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States on Saturday downed a suspected Chinese spy balloon off the Carolina coast on orders from President Joe Biden after it traversed sensitive military sites across North America, becoming the latest flashpoint in tensions between Washington and Beijing.

Biden said he wanted the balloon downed on Wednesday, but was advised that the best time for the operation would be when it was over water. Military officials determined that the bringing it down over land from an altitude of 60,000 feet would pose an undue risk to people on the ground.

The balloon was spotted Saturday morning over the Carolinas as it approached the Atlantic coast. At about 2:40 p.m. EST, an F-22 fighter jet fired a missile at the balloon, puncturing it while it was about 6 nautical miles off the coast near Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, Pentagon officials said.

Officials said the debris landed in 47 feet of water, shallowed than they had expected. It was not immediately clear how long the recovery would take. The Navy is taking the lead, supported by the Coast Guard. "They successfully took it down and I want to compliment our aviators who did it," Biden said after getting off Air Force One en route to Camp David.

Biden says he gave the order for Chinese balloon shootdown

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Joe Biden said on Saturday that he ordered U.S. officials to shoot down the suspected Chinese spy balloon earlier this week and that national security leaders decided the best time for the operation was when the it got over water.

"They successfully took it down and I want to complement our aviators who did it," Biden said after getting off Air Force One en route to Camp David. Fighter jets shot down the giant white balloon off the Carolina coast after it traversed sensitive military sites across North America and became the latest flashpoint in tensions between Washington and Beijing.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said in a statement that Biden approved the shootdown on Wednesday, saying it should be done "as soon as the mission could be accomplished without undue risk to American lives under the balloon's path." Austin said that due to the size and altitude of the balloon , which was moving at about 60,000 feet in the air, the military had determined that taking it down over land would pose an undue risk to people on the ground.

The balloon was spotted Saturday morning over the Carolinas as it approached the coast. In preparation for the operation, the FAA Administration temporarily closed airspace over the Carolina coastline, including the airports in Charleston and Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, and Wilmington, North Carolina. The FAA rerouted air traffic from the area and warned of delays as a result of the flight restrictions.

US downs Chinese balloon over ocean, moves to recover debris

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States on Saturday downed a suspected Chinese spy balloon off the Carolina coast after it traversed sensitive military sites across North America and became the latest flashpoint in tensions between Washington and Beijing.

An operation was underway in U.S. territorial waters in the Atlantic Ocean to recover debris from the balloon, which had been flying at about 60,000 feet and was estimated to be about the size of three school buses. The balloon was downed by Air Force fighter aircraft, according to two officials who were not authorized to publicly discuss the matter and spoke on condition of anonymity.

President Joe Biden had told reporters earlier Saturday that "we're going to take care of it," when asked about the balloon. The Federal Aviation Administration and Coast Guard worked to clear the airspace and water below the balloon as it reached the ocean.

Television footage showed a small explosion, followed by the balloon descending toward the water. U.S. military jets were seen flying in the vicinity and ships were deployed in the water to mount the recovery operation. Officials were aiming to time the operation so they could recover as much of the debris as possible before it sinks into the ocean. The Pentagon had previously estimated that any debris field would be substantial.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States on Saturday downed a suspected Chinese spy balloon off the Carolina coast after it traversed sensitive military sites across North America and became the latest flashpoint in tensions between Washington and Beijing.

An operation was underway in U.S. territorial waters in the Atlantic Ocean to recover debris from the balloon, which had been flying at about 60,000 feet and was estimated to be about the size of three school buses.

President Joe Biden had told reporters earlier Saturday that "we're going to take care of it," when asked about the balloon. The Federal Aviation Administration and Coast Guard worked to clear the airspace and water below the balloon as it reached the ocean.

Television footage showed a small explosion, followed by the balloon descending toward the water. U.S. military jets were seen flying in the vicinity and ships were deployed in the water to mount the recovery operation. Officials were aiming to time the operation so they could recover as much of the debris as possible before it sinks into the ocean. The Pentagon had previously estimated that any debris field would be substantial.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States on Saturday downed a suspected Chinese spy balloon off the Carolina coast after it traversed sensitive military sites across North America and became the latest flashpoint in tensions between Washington and Beijing.

An operation was underway in U.S. territorial waters to recover debris from the balloon, which had been flying at about 60,000 feet and estimated to be about the size of three school buses.

Before the downing, President Joe Biden had said earlier Saturday, "We're going to take care of it," when asked by reporters about the balloon. The Federal Aviation Administration and Coast Guard worked to clear the airspace and water below.

Television footage showed a small explosion, followed by the balloon descending toward the water.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.

US moving ahead on plan to down Chinese balloon over ocean

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Biden administration is moving forward with a plan to shoot down a large Chinese balloon suspected of conducting surveillance on the U.S. military, by bringing it down once it is above the Atlantic Ocean where the remnants could potentially be recovered, according to two U.S. officials.

The officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation, said President Joe Biden had given the go-ahead. In a brief remark Saturday in response to a reporter's question about the balloon, Biden said: "We're going to take care of it."

The balloon was spotted Saturday morning over the Carolinas as it approached the Atlantic coast. In preparation for the operation, the Federal Aviation Administration temporarily closed airspace over the Carolina coastline, including the airports in Charleston and Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, and Wilmington, North Carolina, until at least 2:45 p.m. EST Saturday. The FAA was rerouting air traffic from the area and warned of delays as a result of the flight restrictions.

The Coast Guard also advised mariners to immediately leave the area because of U.S. military operations "that present a significant hazard." Officials were aiming to time the operation so they could recover as much of the debris as possible before it sinks into the ocean. The Pentagon had previously estimated that the balloon, flying at about 60,000 feet in the air, was about the size of three school buses and that any debris field would be substantial.

US considering plan to down Chinese balloon over Atlantic

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Biden administration is considering a plan to shoot down a large Chinese balloon suspected of conducting surveillance on the U.S. military, by bringing it down once it is above the Atlantic Ocean where the remnants could potentially be recovered, according to four U.S. officials.

The officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation, said it was unclear whether a final decision had been made by President Joe Biden. In a brief remark Saturday in response to a reporter's question about the balloon, Biden said: "We're going to take care of it." The balloon was spotted Saturday morning over South Carolina as it approached the Atlantic coast.

Biden had been inclined to down the balloon over land when he was first briefed on it on Tuesday, but Pentagon officials advised against it, warning that the potential risk to people on the ground outweighed the assessment of potential Chinese intelligence gains.

The public disclosure of the balloon this week prompted the cancellation of a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken to Beijing scheduled for Sunday for talks aimed at reducing U.S.-China tensions. The Chinese government on Saturday sought to play down the cancellation.

Original article -

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Biden administration is considering a plan to shoot down a large Chinese balloon suspected of conducting surveillance on U.S. military, by bringing it down once it is above the Atlantic Ocean where the remnants could potentially be recovered, according to four U.S. officials.

The officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation, said it was unclear whether a final decision had yet been made by President Joe Biden. In a brief remark Saturday in response to a reporter's question about the balloon, Biden said: "We're going to take care of it."

The balloon was spotted Saturday morning over North Carolina as it neared the Atlantic coast.

Biden had been inclined to down the balloon over land when he was first briefed on it on Tuesday, but Pentagon officials advised against it, warning that the potential risk to people on the ground outweighed the assessment of potential Chinese intelligence gains.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.

[Sneederbunk]

1. Once it leaves US airspace there is a legal issue in shooting it down.

International waters.

[BumRushDaShow]

2. It's a matter of where it is

Our territory would extend out 12 nautical miles from the coast before reaching "international waters".

[oldsoftie]

18. Or, if we're like China, we just claim ALL of the Atlantic.

[BumRushDaShow]

19. LOL It's down and they are doing a recovery operation now

[underpants]

3. Langley AFB as well as many military options in Virginia alone

I did read that another such balloon was shot in 1998 (I think) but it took a long distance before it came down.

[Liberty Belle]

4. Not if they shoot it down before it reaches international waters,

Which I believe is around 200 nautical miles offshore.

[tinymontgomery]

17. 12 mile territorial limit, 200 mile economic zone.

12 mile territorial limit, 200 mile economic zone. Anybody can navigate through the 200 mile zone as long as their not
anything economic such as foreign ships dragging for fish.

[Polybius]

36. Who's gonna do something about it?

The US is almost untouchable.

[Martin68]

93. The article says it was shot down over US waters, not international waters.

[dalton99a]

5. Do it ASAP.

[SouthernDem4ever]

7. yes, as soon as it is over our territory

shoot it down

[hamsterjill]

9. Hell yes!

This is a practice run and that thing needs to be blown to smithereens as soon as possible - safety in mind.

If this isn’t addressed, the next balloon will be filled with chemical warfare because nothing was done this time.

[dalton99a]

12. +1. No foreign adversary should be allowed to to this

The balloon is an espionage/surveillance platform:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-03/high-flying-balloon-seen-as-part-of-broader-chinese-spy-program
https://archive.ph/44LdU
High-Flying Balloon Seen as Part of Broader Chinese Spy Program
By Jennifer Jacobs and Jenny Leonard
February 3, 2023, 9:48 PM UTC

[hamsterjill]

25. Thank you.

I marvel at the naïveté that I currently see on DU. What do some people want? Us to ask the Chinese to leave us alone, pretty please?

I’m a Democrat 100% of the time but that does not mean I don’t believe in national defense.

[Wuddles440]

28. +2!!!

[calimary]

42. Yep.

China is one entity that does NOT have the best interests of the U.S. in mind.

That’s all I’ve got.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

60. Hi hamsterjill,

let's face facts, Democrats are far more patriotic than the RW, they think we're a bunch of LW lunatics who won't defend the country or themselves, well, I've got bad news for those that follow that lie, this senior Marine, like millions of other Dem. vets and civilians, are not afraid of them and will fight back.

[Marthe48]

68. Thank you

I am antiwar, have been since age 14. But I will die to defend my country, the U.S.A.

When there were protests in the 1960s and 70s, mainly antiwar protests, but also civil rights protests, the people protestung were protesting policies, not trying to overthrow the government. I am surprised that so many people like me, who supported the protesters, have become the ardent defenders of the U.S. And the people who hated the protesters, now hate the U.S.

Thank you for your service and your ongoing defense of our country.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

85. I'm anti war also given my experiences,

but when push comes to shove, I refuse to let a bunch of MAGAt's dictate what I can and cannot believe in and I will fight to the death for the principles of what this country was founded on and for the future of my children, grand children and great grand children and with people here on
DU, I have zero doubt that we will prevail in the end.

Semper Fideis. ("always faithful" or "always loyal&quot

[hamsterjill]

70. Hey, there!

You are absolutely right. And I'm an old lady, but I am patriotic to the core and I would go down fighting if it ever came to that.

Being a Democrat does not equate with being a wimp. I am glad the thing has been taken out.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

86. +100. nt

[OldBaldy1701E]

100. Did you lot ever see 'Amazing Grace and Chuck'?

If not it is about a boy who plays Little League and he decides that since there are too many nukes in the ground, he cannot play sports anymore until they are gone. At first, it is just a little story in the local paper, but when a major NBA athlete reads about it and decides that he likes the idea, he and other sports figures decide to join the kid. Well, this does not sit well with some, and certainly with the rednecks who live in the area where this is happening. So, finally, several of them come rolling into the yard of the house and pile out, all yelling about "Murica-love it or leave it!", "Take your pacifist-ass back to the commute, hippy!", and so on. So, most of the athletes come charging out of the house and run the idiots off. But, my fave part is when this defensive lineman comes running up to the truck that the rednecks drove onto the lawn. He literally lifts the front end up and pushes it back onto the street and into another of the redneck caravan vehicles. When the rednecks see this, they all retreat off of the lawn and into the street. The lineman stands there with his muscles bulging and yells, "I am NOT a pacifist!"

(I, for one, sincerely hope that they never figure it out. I prefer them to think I am weak and supplicant. Then, I can show them how weak with the Gladius Espaniola I have by the door... among other things...)

[hamsterjill]

101. I haven't seen the movie but I'll look for it.

I like your way of thinking!!! Let the idiots think we can be pushed around. There is something behind MY door, as well.

[OldBaldy1701E]

102. It came out in 1987.

"Amazing Grace and Chuck is a 1987 American drama film directed by Mike Newell and starring William Petersen, Jamie Lee Curtis and Gregory Peck." - Wikipedia

[spudspud]

82. +100 /nt

[wnylib]

48. Not smithereens. Our security services can learn from recovered debris.

[hamsterjill]

67. I'm sure our security services have already been learning.

Yes, obviously, the recovered remains could be valuable.

But a general (whose name I did not catch unfortunately) on CNN last night indicated that the path of the object was most likely already under US control. Sorry, I don't have link, but I hope the general was right.

[Ferrets are Cool]

6. Serious question: Why even bother????????

[XorXor]

11. To see what's on it.

Last edited Sat Feb 4, 2023, 05:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Based on the photos I saw, the thing is a lot larger than I thought. I am curious to see if this is an overblown nothing burger, or if there is something cool on it.

[BumRushDaShow]

20. It's probably about 100 - 125ft ft long

[XorXor]

56. When I first read something about it, they had an image of a regular weather balloon

I figured that picture was there for a reason. I didn't really understand the big deal about it, but then I saw the other pictures of it and it became a bit more clear.

It's still kinda weird to think it's an actual spy balloon, though. I mean, it's huge, slow, and has limited (if any) ability to be steered.

[BumRushDaShow]

63. One of the "run of the mill" weather balloons

that have sondes on them to measure temp/pressure/humidity and sometimes wind speed, are about 6ft tall/wide. I posted the below in a couple of other threads -



The images people have been showing of this thing were taken with telephoto lenses (some with high magnifications too). So with it floating at least 20,000 ft HIGHER than a typical plane (that often goes to 40K ft for "cruising altitude" ) you can imagine what the size really is.

I also posted this (a company located in AZ that makes those types of balloons exactly for that purpose but they also made the balloons for the guys who did those suborbital sky dives) - World View

This gives you a better idea as to the size.

[XorXor]

69. I wonder if we'll get any details on what payload this one had on it.

[BumRushDaShow]

73. They certainly won't tell us that

(at least right away )

There was an article at one of the Canadian TV sites that I posted elsewhere in this thread that mentioned "high resolution cameras" -

Canada tracked suspected Chinese spy balloon over Canadian airspace since last weekend: sources
Tom Yun

Tom Yun
CTVNews.ca writer
Follow | Contact

Updated Feb. 3, 2023 10:33 p.m. EST
Published Feb. 3, 2023 8:43 p.m. EST
Share


The suspected Chinese surveillance balloon that was found floating over sensitive military sites in the western United States had been tracked by Canada's government since last weekend as it passed through Canadians airspace, sources tell CTV News.

Canadian officials have not publicly stated whether the massive high-altitude balloon entered Canadian airspace. But sources told CTV News it had passed over the Canadian Arctic, Alberta and Saskatchewan before it was spotted over Montana on Thursday, as it flew over a nuclear launch site. Sources told CTV News it was tracked the entire time it was in Canadian airspace.

After being flagged by Norad, the joint U.S.-Canadian agency responsible for air defence in both nations, U.S. fighter jets investigated the balloon and determined it wasn't fitted with any weapons, but was equipped with high-resolutions cameras.

Even though Canadian officials had known about the balloon since the weekend, the Department of National Defence only confirmed it had been tracking the balloon late Thursday night, after the U.S. had announced the spotting of the balloon.

(snip)

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-tracked-suspected-chinese-spy-balloon-over-canadian-airspace-since-last-weekend-sources-1.6259770

[Ferrets are Cool]

58. I truly doubt we would be given that "right" to know what they found.

Would you trust them to tell us? I wouldn't.

[paleotn]

29. Curiosity. Only way to really tell what it's about...

The whole deal is most likely some ham handed move by Beijing in response to US and allied warships, along with US intel aircraft, operating in the South China Sea. Something China considers a violation of their sovereign territory. Granted that's nutty, but that's Beijing.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

66. Ummmmm, probably they were intruding on US airspace,

the Chinese would do pretty much the same thing if we decided to send an espionage balloon into their airspace, not only that, but US intelligence can learn alot about Chinese tech. by examining this surveillance platform when they recover it.

[harun]

71. There is no reason to bother. Unfortunately the electorate doesn't

use reason.

[bluestarone]

76. One reason i can think of is

NEVER trust the enemy!! WE (our government) will know for sure, NO questions asked, what they were up too!

[harun]

89. China is not our enemy.

[bluestarone]

90. Yea ok.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

104. LOL.

[Sneederbunk]

8. Wonder if Chinese satellites are keeping track of Chinese balloon.

[dalton99a]

10. The balloon is maneuverable and receives commands from a satellite

It is not a dumb weather balloon

[NullTuples]

14. Round balloons are only maneuverable in altitude (which can be used to catch different winds)

[Owl]

13. Good. Do it!

[Firestorm49]

15. Apparently the Chinese are actually stupid enough to .........

1 Navigate the balloon into our airspace without authorization, and 2- Think that they can get away with it.

I’m confident that our intel knows quite a bit about its purpose. If it’s shot down, does it contain an heretofore unknown virus? Oh my God! Another conspiracy theory! Mercy!

[oldsoftie]

21. Should've done it on the WEST coast.

[BumRushDaShow]

22. The trajectory took it over Canada before dipping into the U.S.

roughly paralleling the polar jetstream.

[intrepidity]

40. Then it must've gotten close to Alaska, right?

I haven't been following this story, so no clue.

[BumRushDaShow]

49. Accuweather had an estimated trajectory

Snapshot of current jetstream from here - https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/global-jetstream#2023/02/04/1200Z/jetstream/surface/level/overlay=jetstream/orthographic=-153.85,46.65,223



So no, it doesn't necessarily need to have gotten close to Alaska. It depends on the amplification of the flow and where it was within it. Apparently Canada spotted it along with NORAD. In fact - just found this -

Canada tracked suspected Chinese spy balloon over Canadian airspace since last weekend: sources
Tom Yun

Tom Yun
CTVNews.ca writer
Follow | Contact

Updated Feb. 3, 2023 10:33 p.m. EST
Published Feb. 3, 2023 8:43 p.m. EST
Share


The suspected Chinese surveillance balloon that was found floating over sensitive military sites in the western United States had been tracked by Canada's government since last weekend as it passed through Canadians airspace, sources tell CTV News.

Canadian officials have not publicly stated whether the massive high-altitude balloon entered Canadian airspace. But sources told CTV News it had passed over the Canadian Arctic, Alberta and Saskatchewan before it was spotted over Montana on Thursday, as it flew over a nuclear launch site. Sources told CTV News it was tracked the entire time it was in Canadian airspace.

After being flagged by Norad, the joint U.S.-Canadian agency responsible for air defence in both nations, U.S. fighter jets investigated the balloon and determined it wasn't fitted with any weapons, but was equipped with high-resolutions cameras.

Even though Canadian officials had known about the balloon since the weekend, the Department of National Defence only confirmed it had been tracking the balloon late Thursday night, after the U.S. had announced the spotting of the balloon.

(snip)

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-tracked-suspected-chinese-spy-balloon-over-canadian-airspace-since-last-weekend-sources-1.6259770

[intrepidity]

51. How could it get to the Canadian Arctic without passing Alaska?

It strains credulity imho, and how could something like that be in US airspace wirhout detection? There's more to this story.

About a week ago, the jetstream was looking peculiar, so I'm wondering if China is telling a partial-truth about it getting blown off course.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12326662

[BumRushDaShow]

53. The image at that OP is exactly showing what I said

The distance between the latitude lines (which I think are drawn in 5 degree increments) are something like 60 nm per degree, so assuming it was floating at the very top of that fire hose of clouds, it would still be at least 300 - 400 miles away from AK at the closest.

The reason why the west coast has been getting flooding (which has been in a welcome pause but may change again shortly) is that what meteorologists call the "pineapple express" configuration of the jet stream in the Pacific has been funneling storms up towards the PNW from near Hawaii.



That "warm" Pacific air is what is what has kept the east coast fairly mild (2nd warmest January on record as I heard this afternoon for Philly) until this past week into this weekend when a piece of the Polar Vortex oozed down over the northern tier with cold arctic air.

[intrepidity]

91. According to an article posted here

https://democraticunderground.com/100217617075

Pentagon officials said the spy balloon, which was remotely maneuverable to some degree by the Chinese but still dependent on the jet stream for travel, began its controlled drift into American territory on Jan. 28, when it entered Alaskan airspace near the Aleutian Islands.

[BumRushDaShow]

96. THank you for the updated article

as they had been loathe to release further location details until just before they shot it down.

I based it on this (with a timeline earlier than what had been originally reported - i.e., over NA sometime around January 28 or so and I don't have an image of the jetstream configuration at that time although I know there was a pause in the storms hitting the west coast about mid-month January and some rain was expected to return towards the end of the month around the time the balloon was in the general area) -

Canada tracked suspected Chinese spy balloon over Canadian airspace since last weekend: sources
Tom Yun

Tom Yun
CTVNews.ca writer
Follow | Contact

Updated Feb. 3, 2023 10:33 p.m. EST
Published Feb. 3, 2023 8:43 p.m. EST
Share


The suspected Chinese surveillance balloon that was found floating over sensitive military sites in the western United States had been tracked by Canada's government since last weekend as it passed through Canadians airspace, sources tell CTV News.

Canadian officials have not publicly stated whether the massive high-altitude balloon entered Canadian airspace. But sources told CTV News it had passed over the Canadian Arctic, Alberta and Saskatchewan before it was spotted over Montana on Thursday, as it flew over a nuclear launch site. Sources told CTV News it was tracked the entire time it was in Canadian airspace.

After being flagged by Norad, the joint U.S.-Canadian agency responsible for air defence in both nations, U.S. fighter jets investigated the balloon and determined it wasn't fitted with any weapons, but was equipped with high-resolutions cameras.

Even though Canadian officials had known about the balloon since the weekend, the Department of National Defence only confirmed it had been tracking the balloon late Thursday night, after the U.S. had announced the spotting of the balloon.

(snip)

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-tracked-suspected-chinese-spy-balloon-over-canadian-airspace-since-last-weekend-sources-1.6259770

[intrepidity]

97. Thanks for all the info on this

I'm in CA so had been following those atmospheric rivers.

I'm concerned about that enormous dust cloud that was produced when it was shot down, though.

I mean, I hope our surveillance and detection game is top notch and we'd know if that balloon was carrying *something* that we wouldn't want rained down upon our population.... it is, right? What was that dust, though??

[BumRushDaShow]

99. From what I understand

a F-22 fired a missile at it so it could just be some reaction of the missile and the balloon material and any electronics. Alternately, since the atmospheric pressure is so low as is the temperature up where that was floating, then it's possible if any ice had accumulated on the balloon or truss or panels or was suspended in the air around it, a missile would have vaporized the water crystals and any other substances with a boiling point below or around the temperature generated from the missile strike, causing a (visible) cloud and/or contrail (condensation in the cold air) of gas.

Air Force says a sidewinder was fired at it - https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3288579/f-22-safely-shoots-down-chinese-spy-balloon-off-south-carolina-coast/

F-22 safely shoots down Chinese spy balloon off South Carolina coast

Published Feb. 4, 2023
By Jim Garamone
DOD News

(snip)

The military official gave some detail about the engagement. The F-22 fired the Sidewinder at the balloon from an altitude of 58,000 feet. The balloon at the time was between 60,000 and 65,000 feet.

F-15 Eagles flying from Barnes Air National Guard Base, Massachusetts, supported the F-22, as did tankers from multiple states, including Oregon, Montana, South Carolina and North Carolina. Canadian forces also helped track the overflight of the balloon.

The Navy has deployed the destroyer USS Oscar Austin, the cruiser USS Philippine Sea and the USS Carter Hall, an amphibious landing ship in support of the effort.

(snip)

This is a pic of an Aim-9 sidewinder -

[Cha]

23. Mahalo, BRDS.. glad they

got a good place to do it.

[paleotn]

24. Diplomatic kabuki theater....

There's nothing the Chinese could have gathered that's not easily available via satellites and they have more than a few of those. In my mind, it was a response to US warships exercising freedom of the seas in the South China Sea. A body of water Beijing erroneously considers their sovereign territory and personal lake. Since China lacks a true, blue water navy to cruise off US coastlines, they resorted to balloons flying over US territory to poke Washington in the eye. Kind of a silly move really.

[Justice matters.]

30. They can't think of another 'move' like 'stop buying Treasury Bonds' (to finance our ND) instead?

Oh, they 'earn' tons of 'interests' that way... m'kay.

[paleotn]

44. They've been reducing their holdings in US debt for a while now.

Politically motivated? Hard to say. They may be using some of the sovereign funds previously parked in US debt to prop up their own dumpster fire of an economy. And they're not the biggest foreign player in US debt. That's still Japan.

Interesting data from the US Treasury. The Cayman Islands sits on a shit ton of US debt. More per capita than anyone. Who knew?

https://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

The political side of this, if there is one, is kind of silly. US Treasury debt is the safest place to park funds on the planet. They'd only be hurting themselves.

[Hekate]

61. They're buying real estate and farmland. All legal.

Old-timey Communist observation:
“A capitalist is a man who will sell you the rope with which you hang him.”

[judesedit]

26. I hope it contained no biohazards and they wore suits and masks just in case

[yaesu]

38. I'm betting it was a "commercial" venture backed with full cooperation of the china gov

Who knows for what purpose but we must remember that china is cooperating with Russia, has been threatening our interests worldwide so anything's possible.

[Hekate]

27. Why do people keep underestimating Joe Biden? Especially -- why do DUers?

Thanks for your OP and your updates, BRDS.

[BumRushDaShow]

31. AP is driving me nuts

(but I know all the rest are doing the same with the ever-changing updates! )

[wnylib]

50. Good question.

[riversedge]

32. Moment the #ChineseSpyBalloon was shot down. #Balloon

Hey MTG---Biden did it for REAL.




Moment the #ChineseSpyBalloon was shot down. #Balloon

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=mEKUCM4tIH1zVcHn562gFw

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=mEKUCM4tIH1zVcHn562gFw

[roamer65]

87. I figured President Biden would wait till it got to the Atlantic Ocean.

Good going, Mr President!!!!

[RussBLib]

33. I'm sure it wasn't fast enough for the Fascists

Half the GOP has lost its mind. Mindless opposition is just mindless.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

35. Of course not

Waiting for the verbal diarrhea from MTG and the dim son.

[NBachers]

34. And China had the Pukes sitting up and begging and Happy Dancing for the treat it offered them.

[lees1975]

37. it sure made the extremist conservatives look stupid

suggesting they go out with guns and shoot down a balloon that is well out of range.

It was kind of funny, to see the explosion of stupidity and ignorance all over conservative media. Of course our intelligence knew about it, very likely knew what it was doing, probably intercepted any radio transmission or signal it was sending, would have shot it down if it had posed any real danger or a real security threat, and that would have happened regardless of which party was in power in the White House. That's what our military and intelligence services do.

Of course, the conspiracy theorists and all of the "deep state" crap that they push is another really great example of exactly why they should not be allowed to ever get back in control of the government.

[Traildogbob]

39. Hold my beer

We better take extreme caution being outside tonight as we should have last night. The Patriots will be out in force shooting the nearly full moon. It’s a fake moon, actually a Jina spie Balloon painted like the moon. All those bullets going up, Lead by MTG and Lauren Baboon special task forces and commanded by Tuckums, have to fall back down. Here in WNC, think I will stay inside until the moon sets early AM.

[Hekate]

55. Likewise the people on the other far-side of the political spectrum. We had an unbearable...

… couple of days on the DU thanks to the “Joe Biden isn’t doing anything” crowd.

[TomWilm]

41. 25 years ago, a rogue weather balloon wouldn't come down after fired at

About 25 years ago, a rogue weather balloon wouldn't come down after over 1,000 rounds were fired at it. The balloon entered Icelandic air space and drifted north towards Norway. Balloons, like the suspected Chinese "spy balloon" over the US, don't always pop or explode when shot.
- Rogue Balloon Wouldn't Fall After Jets Fired 1,000 Rounds at It 25 Years Ago.
- Shooting Down Chinese Spy Balloon Harder Than It Seems: Former Pilot.

[moniss]

43. I am very happy to be proven wrong

on this because I really thought they would just resort to the normal angry letter and angry words at the UN.

[republianmushroom]

47. thank God it is over.

[Hekate]

52. It's not. The Chinese were making a point -- and then we were making one back. ...

They have global ambitions. The 20th Century was America’s century — the 21st will not be unless we get our act together in a major way. China intends for the 21st Century to be theirs, and they are working at it 24/7/globally.

They were just making a point, I think.

[Justice matters.]

54. Yep. Look at the shinny object (everywhere, on TV and online)...

While you're busy looking at the shinny object, we'll rob you blind...

This society has been divided by the never-ending 'look, a shinny object' distractions for greed. It's all so futile. And dangerous.

[XorXor]

57. I don't really see what china gains from this

Maybe it is some spy thing, but it seems weird for them to intentionally fly it over an area where they know it would likely be spotted, identified, and then shot down. Maybe we'll hear more about what was on when they recover the balloon.

[Hekate]

62. Meanwhile, psy-ops

[MarineCombatEngineer]

75. It's called testing our response and resolve to Chinese provocations.

Thank you Pres. Joe Biden for your wisdom in dealing with this obvious testing of American resolve to confront Chinese provocations.

[XorXor]

59. I wonder how much a balloon that size costs to make.

I want one.

[BumRushDaShow]

65. It's cheaper than a satellite

I had posted a video upthread as a reply to one of your posts.

[IronLionZion]

64. After it went all the way across the country

oh well. The Pentagon claims the balloon is very low priority as far as foreign surveillance goes. China has hacked into US government computer systems before.

[BumRushDaShow]

72. And if it did have a chemical or biochemical payload

you would want that to be dispersed all over the area underneath where it would have been shot down?

It would be like many of the Iraq war vets who were exposed to chemical weapons depots in Iraq that were bombed BY US and were releasing toxins downwind to where our troops were and/or were discovered and cleared without any hazmat equipment and they paid the price.

[IronLionZion]

74. Much of the mountain west is sparsely populated forests

so a shootdown over Montana or South Dakota may be lower risk

And if it had any chemical or biochemical payload, there would be hell raining down on China in retaliation.

[BumRushDaShow]

77. That doesn't mean it can't drift

and kill wildlife - including endangered wildlife, much of it living over that way.

And you KNOW you wouldn't want to start some war over this.

[Igel]

78. Except if it did have a chemical or biological payload *for dispersal*

killing it *after* it's basically cross the US seems like the wrong choice.

If it's surveilling, killing it *after* it's crossed over all the sensitive military installations seems a bit wrong.

It's like a cop seeing a guy go into a building, realizing that the guy is a threat to the inhabitants. "Meh, I'll get him on the way out. Then find out what he did."

[BumRushDaShow]

79. That's only assuming that it is actually found to be "disbursing"

As is often noted - even as far back as the Gulf War over 30 years ago - our satellites "can see a license plate" from orbit. They had been monitoring the thing since it came in Canada's and then our airspace and I expect got some really good close-ups on it. Hell, there have been "close-ups" being posted in these threads that people posted to twitter so you can imagine the tech that our military would have.

From what I recall from the earlier reporting, they also scrambled 3 jets out of Spokane to take a look.

It's sad to see how so many have been brainwashed to believe that even under a Democratic President, we are a failed bumbling nation no different than that under 45.

As a note - Biden was headed to Camp David after he left here in Philly. I'm trying to remember if he had actually been there during his current term as President.

[Martin68]

94. It is highly unlikely it was carrying a weaponized payload.

That would be an act of war. Spy satellites, balloons, and planes are common, and we fly over Chinese territory with our spy planes from time to time.

[republianmushroom]

80. Now there is a little can do to the Chinese here.

They are having money problems and using balloons are a lot cheaper to use to spy with then sending
a rocket with a satellite into space to do the same thing.

[dalton99a]

81. Hey China: Stop stealing and stop trespassing on other people's property

Respect your neighbors and let them live in peace

Get out of Tibet, get out of the South China Sea

[nycbos]

83. If the Chinese Government is mad as us than we are probably doing something right.

[Evolve Dammit]

84. Is the second balloon reported to be in "Latin America" confirmed and what is the status?

[Roy Rolling]

88. The Court of Public Opinion

Dictatorships always lose in the court of public opinion because they don’t have a public opinion—their people are silent. So they have no real experience in pleasing the public, only pleasing the dictator and high party leader’s whims.

Now there’s an unknown object flying across the U.S. so Biden lets it drift off the Atlantic coast and orders the military to shoot it down.

So you get your keep the data from the flyover, China, but you don’t get your balloon back. We play for keeps in matters like these. Complain to the media, they’d love to hear your whine to make a gigantic country seem small.

What I sense upcoming for China is a 1989 style fall of the Berlin Wall soviet-era implosion. Their economy is built on the Trump-style method of business, and we all know ETTD.

Wait for it…

[Martin68]

92. China is sticking to their weather balloon story. Just a face-saving and misinformation campaign.

[True Dough]

98. Best comment

that I have seen on Twitter:

Link to tweet

[machoneman]

103. The Defense Dept. used two U-2 spy planes to intercept and surveil the balloon!

I'd post a link to the article that just appeared but the stringent DU Rules always (and I mean always!) removes my posts where a link is involved.

Anyway, the article stated that U-2's not only got close but actually flew above the balloon (yes, the U-2 and only that airplane can hit 80,000 feet) in order to detect radio/microwave transmissions to orbiting Chinese spy satellites. We do the same as the data is bounced back to ground stations for analysis. The planes also have electronic counter-measures that could have blocked any signals although the article was silent on whether they did so.

Point is, this was IMO the primary reason we didn't shoot it down over say Alaska. By intercepting (and maybe blocking) said signals, we learned a lot of the capabilities of not only the balloon but also the signals intelligence the Chinese use. Future balloon flights may therefore have the signals blocked, now that we know what they are.

Brilliant move to NOT shoot it down before the two planes gathered tons of valuable data. Go Joe and our military!

[BumRushDaShow]

105. I actually saw a mention of that earlier

ABC News had an article that included this -

Navy releases close-up photos of Chinese surveillance balloon recovery

The photos show operations off Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, on Sunday.
By Luis Martinez and Libby Cathey
February 7, 2023, 2:55 PM


(snip)

On Monday, NORAD commander Gen. Glen VanHerck told reporters that the Navy’s Pathfinder vessel, equipped with side-scan radar, was being used to see what was on the ocean floor. One official says that the payload portion of the balloon that was carrying the sensor/photography equipment is not intact and that only a portion of it has been located on the ocean floor. Only a very small portion of this payload was recovered from the surface water, the official said, noting that this description of the payload does not include the solar panels.

The search continues for the rest of that payload, the official said.

Small underwater drones, dropped from inflatable craft, are being used to help with the recovery effort.

The same official confirms that U.S. U2 spy lines were used to photograph the payload area carrying the sensor equipment, adding that allowing the balloon to fly over the U.S. provided valuable information about how they operate.

(snip)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/navy-releases-close-photos-chinese-surveillance-balloon-recovery/story?id=96950346