Ohio train derailment: NTSB chair issues 'plea to those spreading misinformation'

[Hiawatha Pete]

Source: ABC News

The head of the National Transportation Safety Board said the agency "is working vigorously to understand what caused" the Feb. 3 train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio.

In a rare series of posts on Twitter on Thursday evening, NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy issued "a message to the community" as well as "a plea to those spreading misinformation."

She added: "Nothing...nothing is more important than accuracy at a moment like this, which is why the NTSB is deliberate in our approach to investigations. Credibility is ESSENTIAL to our lifesaving mission. The NTSB process WORKS.

The NTSB chair addressed speculation that a rule on electronically controlled pneumatic (ECP) breaks -- if implemented -- would have prevented the train derailment, which she said was "FALSE."

"The ECP braking rule would've applied ONLY to HIGH HAZARD FLAMMABLE TRAINS. The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars," she tweeted. "This means even if the rule had gone into effect, this train wouldn't have had ECP brakes."

Finally, Homendy urged members of the public to let her agency lead the investigation.

Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-train-derailment-ntsb-chair-issues-plea-spreading/story?id=97281671

---

Further to my prior posts at:

2015 EP brake rule, as proposed, would not have been applicable to Ohio train:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217656721

So called 'antiquated' brakes - also used on school buses & trucks -was not cause of Ohio derailment
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217645420

[stopdiggin]

1. thanks. accurate information is much needed

And push-back against misinformation (particularly of the scandal mongering variety) also crucial, and appreciated.

[Hiawatha Pete]

3. Thanks!

[BootinUp]

2. I have always thought of the NTSB as one the best

investigative units in the world. Let them do their job.

[Hiawatha Pete]

4. +1000 n/t

[Puppyjive]

5. I'm a former railroader

The railroads have lengthened trains and reduced the number of employees. Those employees had important jobs. All employees inspect the equipment. Now the railroads operate with less manpower. They expect more with less. I quit because of fatigue. I warned them that someone was going to fall asleep and derail a train. I said it was not fair to our communities to put people in harms way. The trains are ticking time bombs. A couple of months after I resigned, a train derailed in the same damn spot that concerned me. The crew fell asleep. Their train was barreling down the mountain, out of control. Tired crews, longer trains, less inspectors equal toxic tragedies. I live in the blast zone. Not a good feeling.

[EarthFirst]

6. I recently read that visual inspections have been cut to 90 seconds per car...

…rather than 180 (average) in years past.

The biggest contributing factor to these derailments is the implementation of precision scheduled railroading; requiring more efficiency with less manpower.

[Delphinus]

13. Thank you

First-hand experience and stories are so important.

Glad you are here.

[Hiawatha Pete]

15. From my prior post:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217656721



Thu Feb 16 From: https://www.freightwaves.com/news/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-in-derailment-region-union-says

-snip- "A device that can play a role in preventing derailments is the wayside hot-box detector. It uses infrared sensors to detect bearings, axles or other components of a rail car that are overheating, then uses radio signals to flag rail crews of any overheated components.

The rail car that initiated the derailment had an overheated wheel bearing, according to a Tuesday report from the National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB is still investigating the cause of the derailment and will publish a preliminary report in two weeks.

Wayside hot-box detectors are typically placed every 25 miles along a railroad, according to a Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) report. Their use has contributed to a 59% decrease in train accidents caused by axle- and bearing-related factors since 1990, according to a 2017 Association of American Railroads study.

Declining head counts have led to these mechanisms receiving less preventative maintenance, according to an official from the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen union" -snip

[moondust]

18. Maximizing profits

to help the "poor" executives and stockholders can be dangerous. Norfolk Southern workers don’t even get paid sick time.

Link to tweet

[jaxexpat]

21. That's all the information one needs to know about this, really.

They could have put hot box detectors at every mile and had them regularly maintained for a fraction of the money they paid their own sorry asses to do nothing.

[womanofthehills]

23. Who owns Norfolk Southern - the richest companies in the world

Vanguard , Blackrock, JC Morgan Chase, State Street,
Capital, Lizard, Geo Capital, Wells Fargo, etc

With unbelievable amts of money between them, theycut costs, cut workers and won’t give workers sick leave - just pure greed.

http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/investor-relations/stock-information/ownership-top-holders.html

[Baitball Blogger]

7. So, if you mix flammable cars with non-flammable cars you can skirt the

more rigorous brake rules?

[oldsoftie]

9. I think its more the total number of flammable cars that counts.

But I dont know that for sure.

[Puppyjive]

10. Placement

The placement of cars according to their hazmat content is suppose to prevent these types of events. It looks like speed was a factor, which doesn't necessarily mean the crew is at fault. The hot box detectors are suppose to detect heat, which sounds like they failed. Why they failed is a good question. The length of train might have something to do with it.

[sybylla]

11. So the bill that got passed in the Obama admin got watered down.

That's my guess. I saw yesterday on Twitter (so it must be true) that the UK has these braking systems on all their trains: passenger and freight.

Seems to me we can do better.

[MichMan]

25. According to the OP, it had nothing to do with this incident or this train

[Raven123]

8. We can only hope a comprehensive plan for modernizing rail transportation emerges

which will address efficiency and safety in moving both hazardous and nonhazardous materials.

[Hiawatha Pete]

17. It's already modern. Trains have been using dynamic and regenerative braking years before

their appearance in hybrid cars & trucks.

And along the wayside there is a host of sophisticated monitoring equipment to detect things like overheated bearings.

Air brakes are not the only, & have never been the only, braking used system on diesel & electric locomotives.

That same airbrake system, btw, is also used on the schoolbuses that millions of people put their kids on every day, as well as on trucks and scores of other heavy vehicles.

There could well be other factors in play in this derailment than "modernity": https://www.freightwaves.com/news/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-in-derailment-region-union-says

[Raven123]

22. We may have the technology, but we don't have a plan.

[Orrex]

12. Locally people are less concerned about claims re: the braking systems

They’re more worried about poorly conveyed reassurances about air and water quality.

The brakes are a chronic problem in need of attention, to be sure, but people in the area are dealing right now with the acute problem of toxin exposure, and they perceive those in charge to be less than wholly forthcoming.

Is it truly safe? Maybe. But is that assessment coming across as thorough and genuine? Not so much.

[twodogsbarking]

14. But it was set on fire on purpose, correct?

[Hiawatha Pete]

16. My post only deals with what the NTSB said about the braking system.

Last edited Sat Feb 18, 2023, 08:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I do not know who ordered the controlled burn (EPA, fire dept?), and for what reason (ie was there a greater risk of explosion/fatality to first responders if the controlled burn was not done? Or was it done simply for expedience?)

[snot]

24. Fwiw, there's also the factor of what kinds of cargo are considered "hazardous."

"In the aftermath of the derailment, ... many are wondering how the country’s regulations around rail traffic could have allowed a train with 20 cars of hazardous material not to be considered a 'high hazard.' ... And could stronger regulations have prevented it from happening? ...

"[The] rules were written during a period of high-profile rail accidents involving crude oil trains, including the Lac-Mégantic, Quebec disaster in 2013 that killed 47.

"But ultimately, regulators allowed exemptions in the rules....

The final rules, published in 2015, mandated tighter regulations for 'high-hazard flammable trains.' But the government defined these as trains carrying crude oil and other liquid fuels. Flammable gases like vinyl chloride were excluded from the regulations, against the recommendations of the National Transportation Safety Board."

(https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2023/02/17/ohio-train-that-derailed-wasnt-considered-high-hazard-could-stricter-rules-make-hazardous-material-transport-safer/; emphasis supplied.)

[MichMan]

26. The legislation allowing the DOT to re evaluate the rules in 2015 passed overwhelmingly

Here are the details regarding the vote for the revision in 2015 that gave the authority to the DOT to re evaluate the braking rule

H.R. 22 FAST Act

Passed the House 359-65

Passed the Senate 83-16

Signed by President Obama 12/4/2015

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/22/actions

[snot]

35. Thanks! I take it that

the regulator never completed the re-evaluation.

[WarGamer]

27. the latest is a bad wheel bearing... brakes had nothing to do with it.

[Hiawatha Pete]

28. Yes

Further to my prior posts at:

2015 EP brake rule, as proposed, would not have been applicable to Ohio train:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217656721

So called 'antiquated' brakes - also used on school buses & trucks -was not cause of Ohio derailment
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217645420

[WarGamer]

29. Doesn't let the railroad off the hook of course...

Sloppy maintenance practices I'm sure.

[Hiawatha Pete]

30. If that's the case, yes.

Also one of the links details how the wayside hotbox detectors should have picked up the overheated bearing. NTSB investigating this as well no doubt.

A faulty bearing could be the fault of the car owner, NS doesn't typically own the cars, companies like DOW, Georgia Pacific ect do. though they could still have some liability just as joint contractors in any business could.

[WarGamer]

31. I didn't know that... thanks for the info.

Makes sense though now that I think about it... that the other companies would own the cars.

[Hiawatha Pete]

32. No problem, thanks for checking out my post.

[WarGamer]

33. My single favorite thing about DU...

Is learning things I don't know much about.

IMHO, the best thing about DU is the diversity of the educated members.

It's a sampling of everything from Engineers like me... to artists, historians, English Lit majors, Scientists and Lawyers... not that I consider Law to be a profession of course

[Hiawatha Pete]

34. +1000! Learnt quite a few things here myself. One stop shop for news & info on all kinds of subjects