Harvard board bars 13 pro-Palestine student protesters from graduating, overruling faculty
Source: The Hill
Harvard Universitys governing board rejected an effort from faculty Wednesday to allow a group of 13 students sanctioned due to their participation in pro-Palestine protests to receive their degrees and graduate.
The Harvard Corporation veto of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences (FAS) decision, which The Harvard Crimson described as unprecedented, underlines tensions between the universitys faculty and administration in the wake of mass pro-Palestine protests that have roiled college campuses this year.
FAS voted Monday to recommend that the 13 sanctioned students be allowed to receive degrees and graduate despite their disciplinary violations, going against a decision from the universitys administrative board last week. The corporations veto of that faculty vote again bars the students from graduating.
Because the students included as the result of Mondays amendment are not in good standing, the corporation wrote in a statement, referring to the 13 students, we cannot responsibly vote to award them degrees at this time.
Read more: https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/education/4680598-harvard-board-bars-13-pro-palestine-student-protesters-from-graduating-overruling-faculty/amp/
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DENVERPOPS
(9,113 posts)isn't that action in direct violation of the first amendment??????? Harvard,...... of all colleges??????
XorXor
(655 posts)As for it being a violation of the spirit of free speech, I think it really depends on the specifics of why these particular students had such actions taken against them. I don't think it is just that they participated in protests, because hundreds of others did without facing similar actions. I could be wrong, though. I need to look into it further.
Ontheboundry
(150 posts)First, it's a private school so there is no first amendment rightsm. 2nd, these 13 probably were the worst of the lot u n the destruction phase
DENVERPOPS
(9,113 posts)Zilli
(199 posts)The US citizens who attend this school do not have any 1st Amendment rights?
Ontheboundry
(150 posts)What does the first amendment say "prevents the government". I can't even make this up.
Response to Zilli (Reply #16)
emulatorloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Silent Type
(3,498 posts)Maybe school is trying to avoid a problem at the ceremony. But just doesnt feel fair.
Comfortably_Numb
(3,916 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,680 posts)Prairie Gates
(1,258 posts)Uh huh.
So they're definitely gonna get these degrees, but only when the sanction period ends. OK.
Basically, the Board is just denying them commencement ceremonies and trying to scuttle jobs/graduate/law/medical school, or whatever. They'll still get their degrees. This is deeply juvenile and petty behavior by the Harvard Board.
Zilli
(199 posts)Only the petty attacks count. Anything this board can do to harm students who disagree with their petty disdain.
GB_RN
(2,541 posts)Last edited Thu May 23, 2024, 12:42 AM - Edit history (1)
With the boards decision.
Perhaps my experience as a member of the Student Judicial Board (SJB) at my first undergrad school and as the student representative on the Student Advisory Committee for the College of Nursing at ECU can shed some additional light or give you a slightly different view..
Im sure everyone remembers when you got to campus as a freshman/transfer student, you got a copy of the student handbook. That book contained the student code of conduct.
And heres where my experience might help: No one ever reads it. Ever. No disciplinary infraction case I sat on did the defendant ever read the SCC. I know because we asked. Wed get around to asking the defendant why and were you aware that you can be expelled for this? and they had no clue. I think the same might apply to the students in question: no clue x action/decision causes y-response as a result of not knowing/reading SCC). Because the article states this was done for disciplinary violations, I would guess this went to the SJB and that the sanction itself, if not actually is, then is the equivalent of expulsion or fees owed: Go straight home Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. No graduation, no diploma.
Doesnt matter if youve completed all requirements for your degree, youre shit outta luck if you had a job lined up that required a copy of your transcript to prove degree completion - unless - youre NGS due to owing fees/fines. That
that you can do something about.
yardwork
(62,036 posts)I'd have to know what these students did before I decide if I agree with Harvard about this. However, as you state, Harvard is a private institution with specific, written rules that all students agree to comply with (whether they bother to know it or not). The First Amendment doesn't apply. Nor is there any guarantee that students enrolled at Harvard will receive a degree. Degrees are bestowed voluntarily by the institution at its discretion. The fact that most students do fulfill all requirements and receive degrees doesn't imply that it is a right. The diplomas themselves state this.
People seem to have lost sight of the transactional nature of our world. Just because one doesn't like the system doesn't mean it disappears. Don't like Harvard? Don't apply.
Prairie Gates
(1,258 posts)![](/emoticons/shrug.gif)
In my anecdotal experience...
tornado34jh
(1,077 posts)I wonder who on the board has some secrets hiding. Is there a conflict of interest? By the way, Harvard, and really much of the Ivy League schools haven't exactly sent their best people who graduated (e.g. much of the Republican politicians and businessmen). So I have to be skeptical of what is going on.
question everything
(47,820 posts)Magoo48
(4,783 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,577 posts)Obviously, that action shouldn't mean a degree is withheld. Now, if they are charged with assault, or some other criminal act, I could see withholding the degree until that charge is resolved. And no, putting up a tent on the grass shouldn't mean withholding a degree.
Oopsie Daisy
(3,088 posts)* then the punishment must be met out. If Harvard indicates that they are toothless, then this will only encourage other violations in the future if certain individuals believe (know) that they'll have zero accountability or repercussions. I have similar feelings about permissive parenting, and letting one's charge get away with just about anything, isn't really parenting at all IMHO. It's just asking for more trouble in the future.
oldsoftie
(12,871 posts)If these were troublemakers, expell them & keep their tuition. I doubt Harvard, who is usually weak kneed about ANYTHING, would be doing this if they were simply protestors.
womanofthehills
(8,910 posts)oldsoftie
(12,871 posts)And they DIDNT walk. Very nice; disrupt everyone else's ceremony for your grandstanding. "For the martyrs". Yeah, right. The martyrs we're murdered Oct 7th.
24601
(3,973 posts)did not comply with the order to leave the encampment.
Who can be surprised that they didn't believe there would be consequences?
[link:https://www.wgbh.org/news/education-news/2024-05-06-harvard-protesters-face-suspension|
RobinA
(9,958 posts)No way will this stand. It's just wrong. A diploma isn't an award for good behavior. Except those honorary degrees.
yardwork
(62,036 posts)Diplomas are bestowed voluntarily by institutions, at their discretion. Harvard is not under an obligation to bestow degrees if the institution determines that criteria weren't met.
I have no idea what these students are accused of doing and I don't know if I agree with Harvard about this or not. However, it's important for people to realize that earning a diploma is a transaction, not a guaranteed right.
Prairie Gates
(1,258 posts)It's even more performative than you think!
walkingman
(7,878 posts)Prairie Gates
(1,258 posts)"The corporation wrote that the impacted students may still be given degrees once their disciplinary cases go through the standard university process, dependent on outcome."
Five students were suspended. Twenty others were sanctioned. None were expelled or separated from the university, so any of them who have completed their degree requirements will receive their degrees at the conclusion of the sanction period. There's no "You don't get a diploma" sanction other than expulsion/separation.
The telling language is also the "at this time" in the Board's statement.
Let me know when they confirm expulsions rather than just playing at these petty and picayune games.
walkingman
(7,878 posts)oldsoftie
(12,871 posts)I wonder how long Harvard could last on their paltry 50 billion endowment??
The Ivy League has always been a joke anyway. Its very similar to the con that trump pulls; make people think THEIR degree is FAR better than one from another universities. The truth is thats not the case at all; few Fortune 500 company CEOs are Ivy League grads. Some didnt graduate from ANY college. Tim Cook went to AUBURN.
Its a money grab.
oldsoftie
(12,871 posts)They were weak for months dealing with these useful idiots. Now they put ONE foot down & issued a few punishments. Deal with it, kids.
harun
(11,351 posts)Oh well.
Think. Again.
(10,039 posts)...how to keep the donors happy.