Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:41 AM Jan 2013

Icelandic girl fights government over right to use her name; only ‘approved’ names allowed

Source: Washington Post

A 15-year-old is suing the Icelandic state for the right to legally use the name given to her by her mother. The problem? Blaer, which means “light breeze” in Icelandic, is not on a list approved by the government.

Like a handful of other countries, including Germany and Denmark, Iceland has official rules about what a baby can be named. In a country comfortable with a firm state role, most people don’t question the Personal Names Register, a list of 1,712 male names and 1,853 female names that fit Icelandic grammar and pronunciation rules and that officials maintain will protect children from embarrassment. Parents can take from the list or apply to a special committee that has the power to say yea or nay.

In Blaer’s case, her mother said she learned the name wasn’t on the register only after the priest who baptized the child later informed her he had mistakenly allowed it.

“I had no idea that the name wasn’t on the list, the famous list of names that you can choose from,” said Bjork Eidsdottir, adding she knew a Blaer whose name was accepted in 1973. This time, the panel turned it down on the grounds that the word Blaer takes a masculine article, despite the fact that it was used for a female character in a novel by Iceland’s revered Nobel Prize-winning author Halldor Laxness.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/icelandic-girl-fights-government-over-right-to-use-her-name-only-approved-names-allowed/2013/01/03/1e9a95d0-557a-11e2-89de-76c1c54b1418_story.html



From the "difficult for an American to imagine" files...
97 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Icelandic girl fights government over right to use her name; only ‘approved’ names allowed (Original Post) Recursion Jan 2013 OP
Halldor Laxness? jberryhill Jan 2013 #1
Sounds like a character in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy or The Hunger Games yurbud Jan 2013 #22
I'm waiting for Bjork to weigh in... raging_moderate Jan 2013 #41
Silly name, amazing writer. Codeine Jan 2013 #45
Foreign countries have different naming patterns than the US. Imagine that. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2013 #67
They should have a law against funny names jberryhill Jan 2013 #73
I think this is true in the Netherlands as well mainer Jan 2013 #2
Cnut dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #3
Bah! That's what scholars and priests were for--doing the writing. Kings didn't have to be literate- Moonwalk Jan 2013 #6
dipsydoodle Diclotican Jan 2013 #12
Yes but that was then - a thousand years ago. dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #14
dipsydoodle Diclotican Jan 2013 #18
For some reason my stepdad liked calling me Knut (Canute in English)... Odin2005 Jan 2013 #78
Odin2005 Diclotican Jan 2013 #82
Bwahaha! We will never outgrow such humor. freshwest Jan 2013 #17
Speaking as a person who suffered bitterly from such ridicule... TygrBright Jan 2013 #5
I can't believe that your parents named you Bright Orrex Jan 2013 #7
My wife had a friend whose family name was Button. dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #13
Yowza. Orrex Jan 2013 #16
Better than if their last name had been necklace... Pachamama Jan 2013 #42
lol dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #43
I feel bad for all the Michael Hunts and Henry Beavers. Odin2005 Jan 2013 #79
The first is the Porkies classic dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #80
Along with the less often ridiculed Michael Torres Kennah Jan 2013 #92
My first and last names are very common. krispos42 Jan 2013 #15
I'm at the opposite end with my own name Posteritatis Jan 2013 #68
Well, at least your name isn't Michael Bolton kentauros Jan 2013 #85
And France nt LiberalEsto Jan 2013 #39
If only Asswipe Johnson had that sort of protection jberryhill Jan 2013 #46
+ 1 cyberswede Jan 2013 #55
this was really interesting to me d_r Jan 2013 #4
If such a law were passed, they try to use it to impeach Obama Orrex Jan 2013 #8
I bet you could survey a thousand and get wildly different answers AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #35
Track, Tripp, Mitt, Tagg....those Republicans have some bogus sounding monikers... nt MADem Jan 2013 #60
Blaer isn't a bad name Marthe48 Jan 2013 #9
Back when I was substitute teaching... Recursion Jan 2013 #10
We are unique Marthe48 Jan 2013 #11
Most likely an urban legend Nine Jan 2013 #64
I even forgot where I heard it Marthe48 Jan 2013 #66
Sounds like a good system marshall Jan 2013 #19
Let's not constrain others to live within the confines of narrow minds nt Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #23
True, what business is it of ours to criticize iceland's culture marshall Jan 2013 #90
I'm sorry; that's a very bigoted thing to say TXDem72 Jan 2013 #61
Presumably they speak Icelandic marshall Jan 2013 #83
I was referring to the schoolteacher n/t TXDem72 Jan 2013 #88
The Phoenix family named their children River, Rain, Joaquin, Summer and Liberty. freshwest Jan 2013 #20
One of the kids at my son's montessori school is named for a Mass Effect 3 character... AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #36
Not Grunt, Legion or Harbinger, I hope. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2013 #72
Hawai'i novelist Lois-Ann Yamanaka writes of kids named "Maverick" and "Tareyton" among others KamaAina Jan 2013 #48
I am all too often horrified or just astonished at the parents SheilaT Jan 2013 #21
maybe the really just wanted to tell the gov't to go f* itself Shivering Jemmy Jan 2013 #51
Nah, they'd just assumed the name wasn't a problem Posteritatis Jan 2013 #69
Strange that Blaer is unapproved in Iceland IveWornAHundredPants Jan 2013 #24
Naetelae, Jö, and Töøtyi, you mean? (nt) Recursion Jan 2013 #25
Names are fluid in our family. hunter Jan 2013 #26
Go to a Catholic wedding. Meet 20 girls named Marie and 20 boys named Paul. Recursion Jan 2013 #27
Yep, I've been to Catholic weddings... hunter Jan 2013 #28
Try doing geneaology on those 20 girls revolution breeze Jan 2013 #62
And half the Pauls have a brother named Peter... Posteritatis Jan 2013 #70
One huge enormous problem with someone being known SheilaT Jan 2013 #59
First names in Iceland are important. Your first name is your kids last name. Exultant Democracy Jan 2013 #29
Icelanders do not have family names Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2013 #33
dottir oberle Jan 2013 #95
I recall the DU meltdown over the kid whose first and middle names were Adolph Hitler Fumesucker Jan 2013 #30
It wouldn't have really saved him. JoeyT Jan 2013 #40
I suppose I was really thinking of the whole society being different with such a law Fumesucker Jan 2013 #50
Uniqueness is good marions ghost Jan 2013 #47
So you subscribe to the "Boy Named Sue" theory, eh? Fumesucker Jan 2013 #49
Ha ha marions ghost Jan 2013 #53
At least after WWII, Italy restriced names given to newborn question everything Jan 2013 #58
So they aren't especially transgender friendly in Iceland? MadrasT Jan 2013 #31
Actually they are famous for their support for the GBTL community. Exultant Democracy Jan 2013 #34
A co-worker with last name of Rhoades named his kids Rocky and Sandy.... peacebird Jan 2013 #32
Remember little 3-year old Adolf Hitler? Shrek Jan 2013 #37
That situation is a tiny bit different. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2013 #71
Alaska needs a law like that Enrique Jan 2013 #38
Not just there. Igel Jan 2013 #44
Really? How is important? BadGimp Jan 2013 #52
Then alert, for Christ's sake. Recursion Jan 2013 #57
I'm a victim of birth-name popularity syndrome. HeiressofBickworth Jan 2013 #54
Who says you have to wait till you turn 18??? happyslug Jan 2013 #65
Um, and the tax and licensing authorities take your word for it? jberryhill Jan 2013 #74
By law they have to happyslug Jan 2013 #86
Just out of curiosity... jberryhill Jan 2013 #87
I have cited this law for over 25 years in my practice happyslug Jan 2013 #89
Iceland is one of the most homogeneous countries in the world Hekate Jan 2013 #56
An interesting custom in my ex's family revolution breeze Jan 2013 #63
Sounds like MIL is the one who's too simple. Good for you for hanging strong! nt JudyM Feb 2013 #97
I'm not opposed to their rule Blasphemer Jan 2013 #75
Every semester I can expect some "Brittanys" on my rosters ashling Jan 2013 #76
What's "Moon Unit" in Icelandic? aint_no_life_nowhere Jan 2013 #77
Tungl Eining (nt) Recursion Jan 2013 #81
I don't mind infinite variants and unique names... OswegoAtheist Jan 2013 #84
Sounds like a good idea. Undismayed Jan 2013 #91
Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho is NOT amused! Kennah Jan 2013 #93
Krystal Ball on MSNBC Larrymoe Curlyshemp Jan 2013 #94
Follow-up: Icelandic girl Blaer wins right to use given name muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #96
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
1. Halldor Laxness?
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:53 AM
Jan 2013

And THAT was on the list of names that would "protect children from being embarrassed"? Lol.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
73. They should have a law against funny names
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 07:28 PM
Jan 2013

So that people from normal countries don't make fun of them.

mainer

(12,034 posts)
2. I think this is true in the Netherlands as well
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:54 AM
Jan 2013

They have a list of officially "approved" names. Ostensibly, it's to prevent cruel parents from giving their children names that will lead to ridicule.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
3. Cnut
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:12 PM
Jan 2013

may not have had much fun before he was made king of England, Norway, and Denmark especially if he had spelling problems writing his own name.

Bwian comes to mind too.



Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
6. Bah! That's what scholars and priests were for--doing the writing. Kings didn't have to be literate-
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:16 PM
Jan 2013

--back in Cnut's day

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
12. dipsydoodle
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:35 PM
Jan 2013

dipsydoodle

Cnut is not That a difficult name in Norwegian - or in danish or in swedish for that matter.. The modern name is by the way Knut ...

Diclotican

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
14. Yes but that was then - a thousand years ago.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:40 PM
Jan 2013

Maybe times changed. That's our old English spelling anyway.

Happy New Year to you.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
18. dipsydoodle
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:05 PM
Jan 2013

dipsydoodle

Yes I know .

And, Happy new year to you too Dispsydoodle, hope you get a better year than you have had last year.

Diclotican

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
82. Odin2005
Sat Jan 5, 2013, 05:44 PM
Jan 2013

Odin2005

Not the worst nickname you could be given I would say - as Canute was a great viking King by the way - even though he is not the most known - or popular for that matter - but he was respected by most, as the King..

Diclotican

TygrBright

(20,776 posts)
5. Speaking as a person who suffered bitterly from such ridicule...
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:16 PM
Jan 2013

...as a child, I can empathize with the desire to spare others.

But my name wasn't inherently ridiculous, just very uncommon for that place and time.

And now I love having a fairly unique name (although it poses some internet privacy issues, I do have to use aliases a lot.)

Kids are going to ridicule each others' names even when they're relatively ordinary, if they're the kind of poorly-parented, poorly-educated, poorly-socialized young detrimentals who find bullying and ridiculing others amusing or satisfying.

Attempting to keep this particular kind of bullying from happening via government fiat seems a trifle futile to me.

bemusedly,
Bright

Orrex

(63,249 posts)
16. Yowza.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:44 PM
Jan 2013

During my college years I knew someone whose last name was Boob.

His parents were Bob and Barb.

Pachamama

(16,887 posts)
42. Better than if their last name had been necklace...
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:17 PM
Jan 2013

....sorry...after just watching the Life of Brian and "Biggus Dickus" clip posted above, I couldnt control myself....

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
15. My first and last names are very common.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:40 PM
Jan 2013

I still use an alias!


I do wish my parents had sprung for a multi-syllable first name, though.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
68. I'm at the opposite end with my own name
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 07:22 PM
Jan 2013

I have the same name as a particularly popular stage and television actor and have probably heard every possible comment on that twice (along with the fun of people assuming my ID is fake at inconvenient times).

Of course, I studied history under a Jim Morrison and went to junior high with a James Kirk, so I keep telling myself it could have been worse.

d_r

(6,907 posts)
4. this was really interesting to me
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:13 PM
Jan 2013

I thought of how upset right wingers would be if the government told them that they couldn't name their kids "Kodee" or "Kaytlynne" because of the spelling, but how happy they would be if the government required only English names or non-"ethnic" names or "African American" sounding names.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
35. I bet you could survey a thousand and get wildly different answers
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:46 PM
Jan 2013

depending on how you worded it.

Freedom to name your kid whatever you want, versus restrictions on non-English names.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
10. Back when I was substitute teaching...
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:25 PM
Jan 2013

...the first ten minutes of every class was every child making very sure I knew how their name was spelled. I tried every polite way to say "I don't care how your parents spelled Lashonda, I'm just trying to learn your name long enough to teach you how to divide fractions." Nothing stuck.

Marthe48

(17,083 posts)
66. I even forgot where I heard it
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 07:08 PM
Jan 2013

but never forgot the naming convention. When I mention it, people always have names they think are worse

marshall

(6,665 posts)
19. Sounds like a good system
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:12 PM
Jan 2013

Six years of teaching, struggling with pronouncing names that were incomprehensible in spelling, having a standard wouldn't be bad.

marshall

(6,665 posts)
90. True, what business is it of ours to criticize iceland's culture
Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:26 PM
Jan 2013

They may not do things the American way, but is their way of knife any less valuable? They have produced remarkable advances in gender equality, among other successsses.

marshall

(6,665 posts)
83. Presumably they speak Icelandic
Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:36 AM
Jan 2013

It seems to have worked for them. They are in many ways less bigoted than we Americans.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
20. The Phoenix family named their children River, Rain, Joaquin, Summer and Liberty.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:21 PM
Jan 2013

I knew of a family who named their children after characters in the TV series Battlestar Galactica. Apollo, Starbuck, etc. The kids in the school didn't made fun of them, though.

My given names sound sweet and in combination, snobby. I can hardly say it all aloud without rolling my eyes when in business people start to write the full thing down. I ask people to use my nick, which is short and abrupt.

I was careful in selecting children's names to make sure that not even the initials gave room to tease. I saw that in addition to shunning of kids with unusual names years ago. Not cool for a child.

Iceland needs to add to the 'list' or confront bullying or lack of respect, maybe.



 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
48. Hawai'i novelist Lois-Ann Yamanaka writes of kids named "Maverick" and "Tareyton" among others
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:25 PM
Jan 2013

and her fiction is quite thinly disguised.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
21. I am all too often horrified or just astonished at the parents
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:28 PM
Jan 2013

who think it's really clever to give a child a made-up name or a name with a "creative" spelling that means the child will spend his or her entire life explaining to everyone just how it's spelled and how it's pronounced.

As an English-speaking American, the name Blaer does not strike me as all that problematical, but that's me, and I don't live in Iceland.

I also am slightly surprised that all parents don't double-check the list before giving their child a name.

Shivering Jemmy

(900 posts)
51. maybe the really just wanted to tell the gov't to go f* itself
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:31 PM
Jan 2013

In this case, if that's so, more power to them.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
69. Nah, they'd just assumed the name wasn't a problem
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 07:24 PM
Jan 2013

The kid's name was registered, then they found out it wasn't on The List, at which point hilarity has ensued ever since.

The only person trying to work the government over with the cluebat is the girl herself, and more power to her in that case; one's right to determine their own name should be utterly absolute.

hunter

(38,339 posts)
26. Names are fluid in our family.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:44 PM
Jan 2013

I wonder if those traditions come from a time and place where naming conventions were limited by law or culture. Sure, the church and state gave you an official name but they couldn't make you use it. I remember as a kid feeling like it wasn't even worth remembering the names of the relatives we rarely visited because the next time we saw them they'd be going by different names.

And I know it's not unique to my family. I once worked with a woman who was called one name by her family, another name by her long time friends and people in the community, yet another name by her coworkers, and none of these were any of the names on her official documents. When she married her long time SO she added yet another name, another Ms. *****. I had to know all her names because I was the one answering the phone. The first few weeks at this job were very confusing. This is probably less of a problem now that everyone can take personal calls on their own cell phones.

BTW, most people call me "Hunter," especially on the internet.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
27. Go to a Catholic wedding. Meet 20 girls named Marie and 20 boys named Paul.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:47 PM
Jan 2013

All in the same family...

hunter

(38,339 posts)
28. Yep, I've been to Catholic weddings...
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:57 PM
Jan 2013

...including my own...

When I google the first and last name on my birth certificate there are very many of us.

revolution breeze

(879 posts)
62. Try doing geneaology on those 20 girls
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:21 AM
Jan 2013

named Marie. I have been tracing my mother's family. I got some fascinating information from a cousin on "Marie Louise", unfortunately my "Marie Louise" was the wrong one, but they were born in the same year, had the same last name and were daughters of brothers. I asked another cousin who knew them both and said in the family one was know as Louise and the other MarLouise as they had both lived in the same house for a time.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
70. And half the Pauls have a brother named Peter...
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 07:25 PM
Jan 2013

I think I know six Peter/Paul combinations. Come on, parents.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
59. One huge enormous problem with someone being known
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:21 AM
Jan 2013

by different names like that, is when that person is admitted to a hospital, unless all of those people actually know what her legal name is, they will not be able to find her to visit her.

I work the information desk at a hospital. I see this every single day. I even get people who are looking for "Uncle Eddie" (and I'm making up all of these names) who absolutely have no idea that Uncle Eddie's legal name is Joseph. If the Uncle has a relatively common surname -- and I live in Santa Fe, NM, and I swear to you that the locals have about 17 different surnames altogether -- then I can't even begin to figure out who Uncle Eddie is and where he might be here. Oh. And while I don't expect everyone to know the exact birth date of all of their friends or relatives, it would be nice if the had some idea to within 5 years of the birth date. You have no idea how many times someone will be looking for a friend, Jimmy Smith, and I have three different Jimmy Smiths, but the age they give is not within 10 years of any of them.

Even worse, I'll have two different Sam Smiths in the hospital, only 2 years apart in age. When that happens, I'll give the visitor both room numbers, and tell them if their friend isn't in the first room, go check out the second.

Names matter. Names are important. It really, really confuses things if a parent gives a child one name, and then the kid is forever after known by some other name. Even if it's that kid's legal middle name, which I've run into more times than I care to count.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
29. First names in Iceland are important. Your first name is your kids last name.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:43 PM
Jan 2013

So now there may be a Blaersson or Blaerdottir.

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
33. Icelanders do not have family names
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:18 PM
Jan 2013

They're all first name plus (maybe a middle name) plus (father's first name) plus -sson or -dottir.

For example, the two best known Icelandic mystery writers (and they are very good writers, by the way) are Arnaldur Indridason and Yrsa Sigurdardottir.

People in Iceland are addressed by their first names and even listed in the phonebook under their first names.

oberle

(29 posts)
95. dottir
Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:24 AM
Jan 2013

I have a friend named Holly, whose mother is named Dotty. She always wanted to be called Holly Dottidottir.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
30. I recall the DU meltdown over the kid whose first and middle names were Adolph Hitler
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:58 PM
Jan 2013

Such a law in the US would have saved that poor kid.

My first name is longish and not common but not that uncommon either, my middle and last names are short and quite possibly unique, I've never had anyone manage to spell or pronounce all three correctly without my correcting them.

I've been used to them for a very long time and actually like being unique now but it caused me considerable grief as a child in school.


JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
40. It wouldn't have really saved him.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:09 PM
Jan 2013

It would've saved him from being named Adolf Hitler, but it wouldn't have saved him from being raised by parents that thought naming their kid Adolf Hitler was a good idea. The latter is far more damaging than the former. Though I think I remember them having lost custody of their kids from a while back.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
50. I suppose I was really thinking of the whole society being different with such a law
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:20 PM
Jan 2013

If you tried to name your child Adolf Hitler in Iceland I imagine it might draw some serious scrutiny from the authorities, something beyond just the name on the list.

But you are right, just the name law wouldn't make much difference outside of school.


marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
47. Uniqueness is good
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:20 PM
Jan 2013

I'm all for name creativity and the more unusual the better.

Odd names build character.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
53. Ha ha
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:09 PM
Jan 2013

I guess so...

Let's see, 4 people in my family have what you'd call weird or unusual combinations of names. One of them is sure he's the only person in the world with this first and last name together. Everybody tells him his name is so cool.

question everything

(47,556 posts)
58. At least after WWII, Italy restriced names given to newborn
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:52 AM
Jan 2013

to names from the book of the Saints (whatever this is).

The reason was to prevent any parent naming a kid Benito (Mussolini).

I don't know if this law still exists.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
31. So they aren't especially transgender friendly in Iceland?
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:07 PM
Jan 2013

A female person can't use the name "Blaer" because

the panel turned it down on the grounds that the word Blaer takes a masculine article


???

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
34. Actually they are famous for their support for the GBTL community.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:43 PM
Jan 2013

The biggest party each year is the week long gay pride festival.

Igel

(35,383 posts)
44. Not just there.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:00 PM
Jan 2013

Asked a cashier how to pronounce her name.

Something like Jhaen'ne.

"Jan." Not a novel name.

There's a kid I see on a school list from time to time who's name starts with Rr. Rrahndy'e?


I can see restricting names for phonotactics, making sure they can be pronounced. We speak Russian a bit at home and tend to know Russians, so we insisted that our kid, first name "Joshua", have a name that's usable in Russian. "Joshua" is a mess. And if you "translate" it using the NT equivalent, you get the same form they use for "Jesus".

HeiressofBickworth

(2,682 posts)
54. I'm a victim of birth-name popularity syndrome.
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 12:35 AM
Jan 2013

When I was born, my first name was in the top five most popular first names for female children. At one time during my life, I knew seven others with the same first name.

I was living in Germany when I became pregnant with my daughter. We picked a name we thought would not be so common as neither my husband nor I knew anyone by that name. When we got back to the US, we found that the name we selected was in the top five the year she was born.

I think the syndrome has been broken with the naming of my granddaughter. Her name is usually found as an English surname so it is unusual for a first name for a girl. When I first heard the choice of name, I was skeptical, however, she seems to fit the name.

Now, I think there is a world of difference between the popularity of names and the government regulation of names. In this country, if your parents give you a name you don't like, when you turn 18 you can change it.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
65. Who says you have to wait till you turn 18???
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:03 AM
Jan 2013

No state that I know of, the laws in many states follow what we do in Pennsylvania, a person can change they name at any time as long as they do it consistently and for non-fraudulent purposes AND you do NOT have to go to court to do this (THis was the Common Law Rule as to Names).

Now, in my home state you MAY go to court to change your name, but it is NOT required and has never been required. Other states require you go through their court system to change a name (and some states require you to go through the Courts to change a name on a birth certificate). Pennsylvania does not.

Now, when it comes to Bureaucracies (i.e. Schools) they often have difficulties with the above. They want any child to use the name on the Birth Certificate, even through that is NOT the law in Pennsylvania. Thus it is Schools and other similar bureaucracies that are the biggest obstacles to changing a child's name without a court order.

Now, Pennsylvania does require ex-Felons to go to court to change their names and requires the permission of both parents for the Courts to change the name of a child under 18, but that does NOT restrict the child him or herself from using a different name then the one on the child's birth certificate. Thus a child, like any other resident of a state that has rules like Pennsylvania, can change they name at any time as long as it is done for "consistently and for non-fraudulent purposes".

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
86. By law they have to
Sun Jan 6, 2013, 03:59 AM
Jan 2013

The Actual Statute is 54 P.C.S. Section 701 (b). Originally written in the 1920s, but in the 1920s had only what is now called 701(a), which said people MAY go to Court. The Courts of Pennsylvania then ruled that since the law uses the term "May", it means people "May" go to court to change their name but did not have to. When that section was codified in the 1970s, the General Assembly added section "B" which just repeated what the courts had long ruled. About 1998, the General Assembly added rerstrictions as to felons changing their name (adding 54 Pa.C.S. Section 702 (C))

54 P.C.S. Section 701(b) :

Informal change of name.--Notwithstanding subsection (a), a person may at any time adopt and use any name if such name is used consistently, non-fraudulently and exclusively. The adoption of such name shall not, however, be in contravention of the prohibitions contained in section 702(c) (relating to change by order of court).


http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/54/54.HTM

Notice I mentioned "bureaucracies" have a problem with the above law, but it is the law.

As to tax authorities, not a problem if you pay your taxes, they rarely care about anything else. Except for Income Taxes, tax collectors do not even care WHO pays the taxes, as long as the tax is paid (Income Taxes tend to be personal, and if someone else pays your Income Tax, that payment is Income, that you owe Income Taxes on, thus if someone else is paying the Income Taxes must that person must include the money paid as taxes as income when calculating how much tax to pay).

As to licensing authorities, most just want to see that you are using a name consistently and for Non-Fraudulent purposes. Once you show that, they will change the name on the license.

For example, my Father used the name Henry for 65 years till he had to get a copy of his birth Certificate. By then I knew the Social Security Rule, they wanted a Birth Certificate OR a letter from your state's Bureau of Vital Statistics that there is no record of your birth. This regulations reflect the fact that many people born in the US never had a birth Certificate. Rarer now then it was prior to WWII, but true even to day.

When he made the application for a Birth Certificate, it came back with the name "Wilbert", a name he NEVER used, We then sent it back with the back filled out , for that is the form to change a birth certificate. A few weeks later the corrected birth Certificate came back. No court action was or is needed to this day in Pennsylvania to change a birth Certificate. Thus even at that level it is not hard to change your name. Penndot dislikes it, but will accept it to even change your Driver's License. This is due to Penndot accepting that you have changed your name consistently and for non-fraudulent purposes. Please note, with Penndot we are discussing people over age 16 (if the teenage has a parent's permission to drive) or 18 (if the teen driver parents refuse). I was responding to a person in regards to a much younger person (Teenager or younger) that decides to change their name. Most such teenager or younger people do NOT owe taxes OR have any form of license. Thus not a factor in their lives and NOT a factor in this thread.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
87. Just out of curiosity...
Sun Jan 6, 2013, 05:21 AM
Jan 2013

...how are you so acquainted with this?

I know of one trans person who seemed to have to go through quite the process to change her name in PA, or at least so I was told. But perhaps that is because there was more at issue than simply a name change.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
89. I have cited this law for over 25 years in my practice
Sun Jan 6, 2013, 01:19 PM
Jan 2013

I also have to inform my client that bureaucracies can NOT handle this being the law. And that there are no one location that keeps your name. Birth Certificates are only registration of birth, it has NEVER been a registration of your name. Your name on your Birth Certificate is for the purpose registering your birth and storing the certificate so it can be found later if and when it is needed.

As you enter the work force, you have to register to pay taxes and then sooner or later other places that uses the name you are using for their own use. This includes, not only your local and State Tax collectors, but the IRS, Social Security, your employer, your landlord (if your rent) or mortgage holder (if you buy a home), your utility providers, your doctor, your lawyer, etc.

Each of these bureaucracies use the name you have been using, for their own purposes. Thus you have to inform ALL OF THEM that you have changed your name, This is true even if you go to court to change your name, most will not require a copy of any court order (due to the above law) but you have to keep them informed.

Bureaucracies have a hard time with the fact women can and do change their name when they are married, AND that some married women do NOT assume their Husband's name. Yes I have seen BOTH problems, wives who have to adopt their husband's name because the bureaucracies they are dealing with have a hard time dealing with wives with different names then their husbands. I have also seen problems when a woman did change her name to her husband's and bureaucrats had problems with that. I have seen other people with names bureaucracies can not handle.

Pennsylvania is one of the worse states when it comes to bureaucratic division. Even if you have a court order change of name, you still have to inform all of the bureaucracies of your change of name, and often more then once. Most bureaucracies are set up, you graduate from High School, your go to work (You get married and change your name if you are female, thus all of your records are in your married name then you go to work), have children, pay taxes, buy or rent a house, pay utilities etc.

Bureaucracies can handle when women get married, if they do it young (i.e. before you started to pay taxes, rent and utilities) but NOT if they do it later in life OR any other reason you change your name. This has been a problem for the Witness Protection Programs, in such programs you end up with people who are 40 and have no work history, no rental history, no paying of mortgage history, no credit history. Bureaucracies can NOT handle them, bureaucracies can handle immigrants better for immigrants have such history overseas. I only bring this up to show the problem of name change is more then a problem of wives and ex-wives.

Just a comment, I did not say it was easy to change one's name, I just said you do NOT have to go to court to do it. The problem is rarely the actual change of name, but getting the various bureaucracies to accept the change and to use the name as changed.

Hekate

(90,939 posts)
56. Iceland is one of the most homogeneous countries in the world
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:10 AM
Jan 2013

America is one of the most diverse. So yes, their customs and laws would be difficult for us to imagine.

revolution breeze

(879 posts)
63. An interesting custom in my ex's family
Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:27 AM
Jan 2013

Every girl child MUST have a variance of the name "Mary" i.e. Teresa Marie, Mary Ruth, Maria Denise. I was the first person to not name my daughter anything that began with MAR. Ex's mother told him that he needed to amend the birth certificate to include it or daughter would have bad luck. When she developed diabetes at 6, MIL said it was because I was "too simple" to follow the tradition, which only goes back 4 generations.

Blasphemer

(3,261 posts)
75. I'm not opposed to their rule
Sat Jan 5, 2013, 05:06 AM
Jan 2013

Not that my opinion matters of course, but I understand why the law exists. However, I think the exception should have been granted in this case given the history of the name. In any language or culture, linguistic rules related to masculine and feminine articles are pretty archaic.

ashling

(25,771 posts)
76. Every semester I can expect some "Brittanys" on my rosters
Sat Jan 5, 2013, 08:02 AM
Jan 2013

I put it in quotes, because of all of the different spellings. One semester I think I had 15 - all spelled differently:

Brittany, Britany, Britney, Bryttny, Bryttanie, well, you get the idea

Only in America. Really!

OswegoAtheist

(609 posts)
84. I don't mind infinite variants and unique names...
Sun Jan 6, 2013, 03:00 AM
Jan 2013

...it's those families where everyone HAS to have the same first initial that grinds my gears.

Oswego "All-iteration in the Family" Atheist

 

Undismayed

(76 posts)
91. Sounds like a good idea.
Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:27 PM
Jan 2013

Let's just block any chance of creativity or self expression. You can express yourself as long as you use the approved words and approved methods of stringing them together.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,400 posts)
96. Follow-up: Icelandic girl Blaer wins right to use given name
Fri Feb 1, 2013, 09:20 AM
Feb 2013
"I'm very happy," Blaer said after the ruling.

"I'm glad this is over. Now I expect I'll have to get new identity papers. Finally, I'll have the name Blaer in my passport."

Reykjavik District Court's decision overturns an earlier rejection of the name by Icelandic authorities.

Until now, Blaer Bjarkardottir had been identified simply as "Girl" in communications with officials.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21280101
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Icelandic girl fights gov...