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Lucky Luciano

(11,248 posts)
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:56 PM Mar 2013

Chavez Dead

Last edited Wed Mar 6, 2013, 12:07 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: Bloomberg

Headline flashed across my Bloomberg terminal.

Super-Duper Late Update:

Hugo Chavez, the self-declared socialist who transformed Venezuelan politics by channeling record oil revenue to the poor, nationalizing corporations and vilifying foes as U.S. imperialist puppets, has died. He was 58.

He died today at 4:25 p.m. at a military hospital in Caracas, Vice President Nicolas Maduro said on state television. On Dec. 10, 2012, Chavez arrived in Cuba to undergo his fourth cancer operation in 18 months the following day, two months after winning re-election in a campaign in which he told voters he was “totally free” of the disease. It was the last time he would be seen in public.

“We received the most difficult and tragic information that we can transmit to our people,” a sobbing Maduro said while flanked by Cabinet officials and Jorge Arreaza, Chavez’s son-in-law. “Comandante Chavez, we will assume your legacy, your project, your challenges. Wherever you are, comandante, on behalf of this people that you protected and loved we thank you.”

A former paratrooper who spent two years in jail after leading a failed 1992 coup, Chavez revolutionized and polarized Venezuelan politics. Taking inspiration from ex-Cuban President Fidel Castro, he built homes and medical clinics for the poor, nationalized more than 1,000 companies or their assets and built an anti-American alliance stretching from Iran to Nicaragua. He won re-election three times in 12 years.

--SNIP--

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-05/hugo-chavez-venezuela-s-anti-u-s-socialist-leader-dies-at-58.html

194 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Chavez Dead (Original Post) Lucky Luciano Mar 2013 OP
please add more information asap OKNancy Mar 2013 #1
"The Achievements of Hugo Chavez" JackRiddler Mar 2013 #14
So appropriate. Thanks for posting this. Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #23
De nada. A sad moment. JackRiddler Mar 2013 #34
Thanks, Jack. Ghost Dog Mar 2013 #32
Thank you Jack n/t Catherina Mar 2013 #41
Great tribute Jack. Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #51
Good for you! another_liberal Mar 2013 #79
RIP President Chavez & thank you for the... Little Star Mar 2013 #83
Thank you, Jack. RILib Mar 2013 #117
He will be missed by the poor of Venezuela. Matilda Mar 2013 #118
This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Mar 2013 #137
Thank you for sharing this. Delphinus Mar 2013 #140
I originally opened this thread expecting the worst.. Alamuti Lotus Mar 2013 #153
good riddance rdking647 Mar 2013 #35
I won't miss him, I am worried about the inept government he leaves behind though Bacchus4.0 Mar 2013 #39
I will say the same thing when the Anglo/American/NATO/BIS/MI6/CIA/IMF empire falls as well Mutatis Mutandis Mar 2013 #76
I'll say the same when all these fucking right wing trolls leave DU. n/t bitchkitty Mar 2013 #143
love the Grayson quote in your tag Mutatis Mutandis Mar 2013 #145
Thanks. Alan is one of the few heroes I have left. :( n/t bitchkitty Mar 2013 #148
if you dont like the west rdking647 Mar 2013 #156
It's not your place to tell DU'ers to leave THEIR country. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #158
what kind of rightwing fucking crap is THAT? Skittles Mar 2013 #181
as far as im concerned rdking647 Mar 2013 #188
I want you to watch a few documentaries. antigone382 Mar 2013 #191
No, but structrual adjustment programs and WTO rulings force us all to live for its' benefit. antigone382 Mar 2013 #190
Indeed! n/t bbinacan Mar 2013 #84
Better late than never I suppose... Lucky Luciano Mar 2013 #175
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has died - @AP, @NBCNews Bosonic Mar 2013 #2
again? nt Deep13 Mar 2013 #3
You nailed that. 1983law Mar 2013 #48
CNN details... brooklynite Mar 2013 #4
nbc twitter OKNancy Mar 2013 #5
Here we go......... thelordofhell Mar 2013 #6
Very sad to read this RILib Mar 2013 #7
A heroic, world-historical figure. JackRiddler Mar 2013 #22
Do you always praise murderous dictators? dbackjon Mar 2013 #38
so who did he murder? Adenoid_Hynkel Mar 2013 #47
The latter. n/t bitchkitty Mar 2013 #144
Is that what you call democracy when a progressive leftist wins fair elections? Coyotl Mar 2013 #57
Fair elections? Is that why chavez kept changing the laws? dbackjon Mar 2013 #58
again, who did he murder? Adenoid_Hynkel Mar 2013 #61
Bush's failed coup attempt was outsmarted by the democratic forces, fair elections were restored Coyotl Mar 2013 #63
you got nothing.. frylock Mar 2013 #73
Yes, fair elections, won fair and square, is why his party had the authority reorg Mar 2013 #109
Uhhh, who did he murder? EOTE Mar 2013 #122
I'm fairly sure that poster is working for the CIA. Ken Burch Mar 2013 #124
Maybe it's Mr. Danger lurking on DU. Coyotl Mar 2013 #127
That's at least possible. Ken Burch Mar 2013 #164
Propaganda works .... Coyotl Mar 2013 #177
You keep saying that. Hissyspit Mar 2013 #69
Evidence wouldn't be flaming. Coyotl Mar 2013 #72
I won't give you the response you deserve. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #71
Good on you. That's the kind of reason and restraint i enjoyed in Hugo. Coyotl Mar 2013 #74
LMAO - restraint? Tell that to the families of his victims dbackjon Mar 2013 #89
i'd love to. you've been asked to provide examples.. frylock Mar 2013 #92
Examples have been provided many times at DU dbackjon Mar 2013 #94
well then it should be a simple task for you to cut and paste those examples right now.. frylock Mar 2013 #107
Instead of slithering away and starting a new thread Coyotl Mar 2013 #178
You are utterly full of shit. EOTE Mar 2013 #126
No kidding (but not very Hugo of you). I posted Hugo's Mr. Danger video in the wrong spot. Coyotl Mar 2013 #130
I respect politeness, but it's not for me. EOTE Mar 2013 #134
I deeply respect having to call an ass an ass, Hugo preferred donkey.... Coyotl Mar 2013 #141
glad to see the sickening Hoo-rah American jingoistic revisionism is alive and well on DU Mutatis Mutandis Mar 2013 #78
Has nothing to do with Hoo-rah Jingoism dbackjon Mar 2013 #87
then I suggest your 'reality' detector is in need of repair Mutatis Mutandis Mar 2013 #96
Yes he was! bbinacan Mar 2013 #88
Evidence please? Hissyspit Mar 2013 #113
Only on those occasions when a US president does something good. JackRiddler Mar 2013 #106
I'll be dancing for joy NeoConsSuck Mar 2013 #152
...whoa. SoapBox Mar 2013 #8
so that 'breathing trouble' he was having yesterday was really a death rattle. nt Viva_La_Revolution Mar 2013 #9
Ouch 1983law Mar 2013 #50
Reuters: Venezuela's Hugo Chavez dies from cancer - VP Ghost Dog Mar 2013 #10
Release the jackals mikeysnot Mar 2013 #11
Happened on Hannity Hayabusa Mar 2013 #160
Not entirely unexpected, I'm afraid. Warpy Mar 2013 #12
It's a sad day for those of us on the left. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #13
They've come too far to turn back. Hoping for the people to continue their progress. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #18
The politics of the entire continent has shifted. A new generation is benefitting from Chavez's and Coyotl Mar 2013 #86
Very sad news. nt TBF Mar 2013 #28
Extremely sad news dipsydoodle Mar 2013 #15
RIP Hugo - you were truly man of the people AAO Mar 2013 #16
Here's to wishing that the people of Venezuela come through this ok jzodda Mar 2013 #17
good post Kali Mar 2013 #170
No one should celebrate this news. Ken Burch Mar 2013 #19
Well spoken. dipsydoodle Mar 2013 #26
Grave dancing is a DU art form hack89 Mar 2013 #108
The main difference about that particular "South American strong man" ... Nihil Mar 2013 #184
So sad. polly7 Mar 2013 #20
I knew that was coming. caseymoz Mar 2013 #21
Also confirmed by NBC News... n/t Rhiannon12866 Mar 2013 #24
A great warrior for the interests of the poor, sick and hungry. God bless Chavez. harun Mar 2013 #25
TeleSUR reorg Mar 2013 #27
Certainly a polarizing figure. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2013 #29
If you do ANYTHING good at all, anything that matters, you're gonna be polarizing. Ken Burch Mar 2013 #30
Good post Rider3 Mar 2013 #31
To be fair, how many of us would support a free press shaayecanaan Mar 2013 #105
Sad news. timdog44 Mar 2013 #33
Venezuela announces death of President Chavez struggle4progress Mar 2013 #36
Good riddance to a bad dictator dbackjon Mar 2013 #37
"Murderous?" Adenoid_Hynkel Mar 2013 #46
A democracy is a democracy, and democracies have Presidents, a difference of note. Coyotl Mar 2013 #70
He is not a dictator if he is elected and the only thing he murdered were tax exemptions for the oil pam4water Mar 2013 #80
You should take your uninformed slanders and start your own "pissing on the dead" thread. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #82
Read any of his screeds. Puglover Mar 2013 #159
and a troll is a troll.. frylock Mar 2013 #97
Post evidence. Hissyspit Mar 2013 #115
idiotic post. Their elections were more open, way more open, than ours. Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #128
Descansa en paz, señor Presidente liberaltrucker Mar 2013 #40
and now our brave oil companies can get back to colonizing Venezuela Adenoid_Hynkel Mar 2013 #42
He called President George W. Bush "the devil" and "the king of vacations. JeffHead Mar 2013 #43
He gave his life to his country flamingdem Mar 2013 #44
He gave his life to his country flamingdem Mar 2013 #45
R.I.P. truebluegreen Mar 2013 #49
Let's hope unreadierLizard Mar 2013 #52
not to mention the total corruption, and uncontrolled violence Bacchus4.0 Mar 2013 #56
He didn't take anybody's freedom of expression or stifle the press and media. Jazzgirl Mar 2013 #81
Ant government rhetoric that was against the law? totodeinhere Mar 2013 #103
No but they were advocating an overthrow of the government Jazzgirl Mar 2013 #114
Advocating that should be against the law. I agree. But Chavez shut down media outlets totodeinhere Mar 2013 #119
Did he beat, arrest, jail and fine protestors the way JDPriestly Mar 2013 #85
well stated frylock Mar 2013 #99
Nobody who busts Chavez on that stuff actually cares about democracy Ken Burch Mar 2013 #165
Um? unreadierLizard Mar 2013 #166
Viva Hugo, a Bolivarian champion of South American democracy, a great representative of his people Coyotl Mar 2013 #53
+10,000 n/t Catherina Mar 2013 #55
And so passes another champion of the people. RIP craigmatic Mar 2013 #54
Let's not pretend we have the right to dissent in the US. Kalidurga Mar 2013 #59
Viva Chavez - Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2013 #60
R.I.P. magic59 Mar 2013 #62
May he rest in peace Marrah_G Mar 2013 #64
Expect to see the Dow shoot up. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #65
Very sad day for Venezuela. Arctic Dave Mar 2013 #66
I will always remember his UN address Botany Mar 2013 #67
Dick Cheney outlived another of his enemies PuffedMica Mar 2013 #68
Victory to the people of Venezuela in their upcoming battle with the CIA and Big Oil Ken Burch Mar 2013 #75
I'm very sad to hear that. another_liberal Mar 2013 #77
Hugo Chavez, Presente! htuttle Mar 2013 #90
There appears to be many here 1KansasDem Mar 2013 #91
Economic equality is far more important than any of those things. nt Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #95
Did you mean to hit the sarcasm button? 1KansasDem Mar 2013 #100
That's for you to decide. nt Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #101
shit, we did that EXACT thing right here in the good ol' YOU ESS of AY.. frylock Mar 2013 #104
You need to avail yourself of your right to inform yourself first. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #110
A true man of the people. nt Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #93
I am concerned over the coming influence of outside money taking over the government DainBramaged Mar 2013 #98
You mean "nationalized" right? 1KansasDem Mar 2013 #102
You need to realize Venezuela already HAD nationalized oil, etc. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #112
So you believe he 1KansasDem Mar 2013 #116
Of course not. How odd. Why don't you get a hobby? Stay out of the way of serious people. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #133
Chill 1KansasDem Mar 2013 #142
Go make a positive contribution somewhere... DainBramaged Mar 2013 #180
Amazing how they come out of the woodwork isn't it? DainBramaged Mar 2013 #179
--> This kind of activity... Ghost Dog Mar 2013 #155
Exactly the time and place for this Wikileaked info. Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #157
I will neither mourn nor rejoice. Pararescue Mar 2013 #111
As Democrats, we need to be pressing the president WE elected and re-elected. Ken Burch Mar 2013 #120
I agree. Leave them alone. We should not be trading with or supplying any aid to Venezuela. Pterodactyl Mar 2013 #167
Not what I meant...and none of those things are the problem. Ken Burch Mar 2013 #169
Alright. I'm OK if the Chavistas win or the opposition wins. Either way is cool with me! Pterodactyl Mar 2013 #173
RIP Chavez kimbutgar Mar 2013 #121
A man of the people. RIP santamargarita Mar 2013 #123
RIP, neither cheering nor mourning BuddhaGirl Mar 2013 #125
Have they blamed the US yet? iandhr Mar 2013 #129
More or less - and before he died. 'Infected by outsiders' muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #136
Wow. iandhr Mar 2013 #138
they sure did, first they blamed enemies of inoculating him with cancer and then Bacchus4.0 Mar 2013 #154
President Chavez and I were both born on July 28, 1954. Melinda Mar 2013 #131
I was born one day earlier, same year. Ghost Dog Mar 2013 #151
I think the world was very cold the fall of 1953. :-) Melinda Mar 2013 #161
I would hate to believe that President Obama would authorize efforts to destabilize that country. totodeinhere Mar 2013 #132
Are you aware of what happened with Honduras? Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #135
Because foreign policy - yours and ours too - is controlled by the multinationals. Matilda Mar 2013 #147
RIP Hugo. dotymed Mar 2013 #139
terribly sad news Alamuti Lotus Mar 2013 #146
I take this news with much trepidation... a la izquierda Mar 2013 #149
This is sad news. He was hero to his people, the less fortunate ones. Rest in Peace, Mr. Chavez. nt Mnemosyne Mar 2013 #150
Never forget the poor he helped..millions and then there was what he said about GW Bush, LOL: Jefferson23 Mar 2013 #162
RIP - nt Ohio Joe Mar 2013 #163
Hugo Chavez SamKnause Mar 2013 #168
regardless what anyone thinks of him now - he will forever be remembered as a hero who championed Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #171
Boo hoo hoo Zorro Mar 2013 #172
Is he still dead? Pterodactyl Mar 2013 #174
RIP I guess. Unlike most here, I was fully neutral to Chavez. Dash87 Mar 2013 #176
1625 "MILITARY TIME" eom littlemissmartypants Mar 2013 #182
The world lost a complicated but good hearted leader tavalon Mar 2013 #183
Interesting posts from those who supported him. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #185
I'm not happy, nor sad davidpdx Mar 2013 #186
Mexico's President Fox refused to recognize the government we installed in April 2002,... Kolesar Mar 2013 #187
He took office in 1999. He was re-elected each time after that by Venezuelans Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #192
He gerryrigged the Venezualan Constitution to stay in power davidpdx Mar 2013 #194
It's a mistranslation. AngryAmish Mar 2013 #189
Hasta la vista, Hugo! I love weed Mar 2013 #193

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
1. please add more information asap
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:59 PM
Mar 2013

you were first to report so I need you to post more or I will lock yours and leave the other thread open.. thanks

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
14. "The Achievements of Hugo Chavez"
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:08 PM
Mar 2013

May he rest in peace. Viva Venezuela.



Let's look back. And forward.

He is a heroic, world-historical figure. For many reasons, but most memorably because in 2002, the Venezuelan people and his government broke the pattern of nearly 180 years of bloody US interventions and nearly 60 years of CIA coup-making in Latin America, making a giant step -- along with the Argentinean debt default in the same period -- in liberating a continent from the grip of foreign imperialism, and from its homegrown oligarchs.

That's big history for you: Do the right thing.

A moment of silence.

Now watch this:
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised (2002) - Chavez: Inside the Coup



One of the most important documentaries of the last 15 years. And probably the most thrilling.





Weekend Edition December 14-16, 2012
An Update on the Social Determinants of Health in Venezuela
The Achievements of Hugo Chavez

by CARLES MUNTANER, JOAN BENACH, MARIA PAEZ VICTOR

While Venezuela’s president Hugo Chávez is fighting for his life in Cuba, the liberal press of both sides of the Atlantic (e.g., El Pais”) has not stopped trashing his government. The significance of his victory (12 points ahead of his contender) has yet to be analysed properly, with evidence. It is remarkable that Chávez would win, sick with cancer, outgunned by the local and international media (think of Syriza’s Greece election) and, rarely acknowledged, an electoral map extremely biased towards the middle and upper classes, with geographical barriers and difficult access to Ids for members of the working classes.

One of the main factors for the popularity of the Chávez Government and its landslide victory in this re-election results of October 2012, is the reduction of poverty, made possible because the government took back control of the national petroleum company PDVSA, and has used the abundant oil revenues, not for benefit of a small class of renters as previous governments had done, but to build needed infrastructure and invest in the social services that Venezuelans so sorely needed. During the last ten years, the government has increased social spending by 60.6%, a total of $772 billion (1).

SNIP

With regard to these social determinants of health indicators, Venezuela is now the country in the region with the lowest inequality level (measured by the Gini Coefficient) having reduced inequality by 54%, poverty by 44%. Poverty has been reduced from 70.8% (1996) to 21% (2010). And extreme poverty reduced from 40% (1996) to a very low level of 7.3% (2010). About 20 million people have benefited from anti-poverty programs, called “Misiones” (Up to now, 2.1 million elderly people have received old-age pensions – that is 66% of the population while only 387,000 received pensions before the current government.

SNIP

The changes in Venezuela are not abstract. The government of President Chávez has significantly improved the living conditions of Venezuelans and engaged them in dynamic political participation to achieve it [xiv]. This new model of socialist development has had a phenomenal impact all over Latin America, including Colombia of late, and the progressive left of centre governments that are now the majority in the region see in Venezuela the catalyst that that has brought more democracy, national sovereignty and economic and social progress to the region.[xv] . No amount of neoliberal rhetoric can dispute these facts. Dozens of opinionated experts can go on forever on whether the Bolivarian Revolution is or is not socialist, whether it is revolutionary or reformist (it is likely to be both ), yet at the end of the day these substantial achievements remain. This is what infuriates its opponents the most both inside Venezuela and most notable, from neocolonialist countries. The “objective” and “empiricist” The Economist will not publicize this data, preferring to predict once again the imminent collapse of the Venezuelan economy and El Pais, in Spain, would rather have one of the architects of the Caracazo (the slaughter of 3000 people in Caracas protesting the austerity measures of 1989), the minister of finance of the former government Moises Naim, go on with his anti-Chávez obsession. But none of them can dispute that the UN Human Development Index situates Venezuela in place #61 out of 176 countries having increased 7 places in 10 years.

And that is one more reason why Chavez’s Bolivarian Revolution will survive Venezuela’s Socialist leader.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/12/14/the-achievements-of-hugo-chavez/print





I'm not idolizing him, trust me. This is truly one case where we might say without hesitation: "The perfect is the enemy of the good."





Judi Lynn

(160,450 posts)
23. So appropriate. Thanks for posting this.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:15 PM
Mar 2013

Saving it for personal use. Plan to reread it later tonight, when it's easier to concentrate.

Appreciate your timely post.

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
83. RIP President Chavez & thank you for the...
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:17 PM
Mar 2013

fuel you provided to help Joe Kennedy provide heat for poor people here in the US.

Matilda

(6,384 posts)
118. He will be missed by the poor of Venezuela.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:45 PM
Mar 2013

I do hope Maduro has the fortitude to stand up to the vested interests and not cave in as so many leftie Latin American leaders have done. I don't know much about him, so can only wait and see.

I think when I go home tonight, I'll dig out my copy of The Revolution Will Not Be Televised and watch it again.

R.I.P. Hugo Chavez - may the good you did live on.

Response to JackRiddler (Reply #14)

Delphinus

(11,825 posts)
140. Thank you for sharing this.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:09 PM
Mar 2013

I am sad.

May he rest in peace - say what you will, he did much for the people of his country.

 

Alamuti Lotus

(3,093 posts)
153. I originally opened this thread expecting the worst..
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:56 PM
Mar 2013

THANK YOU for putting this together, it is a nice change from the hoard of drooling vultures I was expecting.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
39. I won't miss him, I am worried about the inept government he leaves behind though
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:36 PM
Mar 2013

and what that means for Venezuelans.

 

Mutatis Mutandis

(90 posts)
76. I will say the same thing when the Anglo/American/NATO/BIS/MI6/CIA/IMF empire falls as well
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:12 PM
Mar 2013
A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

RIP Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías

Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis

Skittles

(153,113 posts)
181. what kind of rightwing fucking crap is THAT?
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 04:28 AM
Mar 2013

America Love it or Leave it - no room for improvement there, huh?

 

rdking647

(5,113 posts)
188. as far as im concerned
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:43 AM
Mar 2013

calling for the american "empire" to fall is no a matter of love it ot leave it. its as bad as the crap the far right says

antigone382

(3,682 posts)
191. I want you to watch a few documentaries.
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 06:32 PM
Mar 2013

One is called "King Leopold's Ghost." Another is called "Life and Debt." Another is called "Maquilopolis." Read any of a number of good documentaries on the murder of Salvador Allende. Then tell us that American empire--or more generally, the Industrialized "global North," as most development researchers now refer to it--does not exist, and should not fall.

This is not asking for the destruction of America or the global North itself. It is calling for justice and a future for the global South.

antigone382

(3,682 posts)
190. No, but structrual adjustment programs and WTO rulings force us all to live for its' benefit.
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 06:26 PM
Mar 2013

And those are the "legitimate" means by which we maintain control. Ask Patrice Lumumba or Salvador Allende about the other tools in the industrialized world's Colonization-By-Another-Name box. If you can't see the ways in which the global South is systematically dominated for the economic well-being of the global North (with the U.S. being one of the biggest beneficiaries), I really don't know what to tell you.

Lucky Luciano

(11,248 posts)
175. Better late than never I suppose...
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 12:10 AM
Mar 2013

I was at work and saw the flash across my Bloomberg terminal and posted since it was a major story - I only access DU from my iPhone, so I could not post a link...Got home at 8pm...and just put my baby boy to sleep (finally)...so my update is now in

Feel free to lock if there is a next time.

brooklynite

(94,358 posts)
4. CNN details...
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:02 PM
Mar 2013

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has died, Vice President Nicolas Maduro said Tuesday. He was 58.

Chavez announced he had cancer in 2011. He spent more than two months in treatment in Cuba recently, returning to Venezuela two weeks ago. Officials have not said what type of cancer he had.

Chavez has been Venezuela’s president since 1998. His country’s economy has been highly dependent on oil sales to the U.S., but he was an avowed critic of American capitalism.

On Tuesday, Venezuela accused the domestic and foreign enemies of Venezuela of attacking Chavez and expelled 2 U.S. Embassy officials who it said was seeking military support for a plot against the government.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
5. nbc twitter
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:03 PM
Mar 2013

NBC News ‏@NBCNews
MORE ON CHAVEZ: Venezuelan VP Maduro asks nation for calm in wake of death; Chavez was being treated for cancer
Details
6 mins NBC News ‏@NBCNews
BREAKING: Hugo Chavez, socialist firebrand who led Venezuela since 1999, is dead at 58, NBC confirms

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
22. A heroic, world-historical figure.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:13 PM
Mar 2013

For many reasons, but most memorably because in 2002, his government broke the pattern of nearly 180 years of US interventions and nearly 60 years of CIA coup-making in Latin America, making a giant step (along with the Argentinean default in the same period) in liberating a continent from the grip of foreign imperialism.

 

Adenoid_Hynkel

(14,093 posts)
47. so who did he murder?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:44 PM
Mar 2013

please back up your wild assertions, or do you just regurgitate any baseless nonsense you hear in the rightwing media?

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
57. Is that what you call democracy when a progressive leftist wins fair elections?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:52 PM
Mar 2013

Even monkeys fling dung, but not at corpses.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
58. Fair elections? Is that why chavez kept changing the laws?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:55 PM
Mar 2013

Shutting down oppostion newspapers? Having his goons murder and intimidate?



No, Venezuela is not a democracy. Anyone that believes that needs to open their eyes to reality.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
63. Bush's failed coup attempt was outsmarted by the democratic forces, fair elections were restored
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:01 PM
Mar 2013

after all the institutions of democracy were briefly discarded by the failed coup.

People were murdered by the coup. Overthrowing democracy, that's intimidation. Sorry about your confusions on these facts.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
73. you got nothing..
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:10 PM
Mar 2013

a "murderous dictator" would've held publicly televised executions shortly after the failed CIA staged coup.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
109. Yes, fair elections, won fair and square, is why his party had the authority
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:34 PM
Mar 2013

to change the law. That's how it works in a democracy, you know.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
122. Uhhh, who did he murder?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:47 PM
Mar 2013

Or do you just like flinging absolute bullshit when you hate for no reason? Again, who did he murder? Are you going to make such a ridiculous, bullshit claim without a shred of evidence to back it up? Are you like Fox News in human form?

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
124. I'm fairly sure that poster is working for the CIA.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:48 PM
Mar 2013

It's compared Chavez to Stalin, of all people, in other threads.

Disgusting.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
164. That's at least possible.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 10:10 PM
Mar 2013

And Chavez was RIGHT about Dubya, so why would anybody here ever denounce him for that one?

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
74. Good on you. That's the kind of reason and restraint i enjoyed in Hugo.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:11 PM
Mar 2013

Even when he had people trying to kill him, Hugo kept his cool and reason triumphed. That's greatness.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
94. Examples have been provided many times at DU
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:25 PM
Mar 2013

By me, and others.

The Chavistas always have one response "liar" Every source is dismissed in their alternate reality. Nothing can convince them of the evil that Saint Hugo cause, so why bother.


But a simple Google search will provide you with many examples.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
107. well then it should be a simple task for you to cut and paste those examples right now..
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:32 PM
Mar 2013

just like i'm sure you cut and pasted them from your right-wing sources in past. what's holding you up?

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
126. You are utterly full of shit.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:50 PM
Mar 2013

And nobody here buys what you're shoveling. You've been asked dozens of times to provide examples of the bullshit you're throwing and you haven't even come close. I would say you're a shit stirrer, but I've known some good shit stirrers, you aren't fit to shine their boots.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
130. No kidding (but not very Hugo of you). I posted Hugo's Mr. Danger video in the wrong spot.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:56 PM
Mar 2013

This reply deserves the honor of allowing Hugo to tell the poster what his problem is, instead of above: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=416014

Hugo was no less adamant, but a bit more polite.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
134. I respect politeness, but it's not for me.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:04 PM
Mar 2013

Especially when dealing with thugs. I've found there have been many times when I've bit my tongue and I've ended up regretting it greatly. I have to call an ass an ass.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
141. I deeply respect having to call an ass an ass, Hugo preferred donkey....
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:11 PM
Mar 2013

You two only have slight difference, Spanish vs. English fluency

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
113. Evidence please?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:38 PM
Mar 2013

Besides the typical right-wing slander rumors that have been floated as deliberate propaganda over the years.

"Chavez is a looney toon! I read it in a headline in the U.S. mainstream media who got it from an Iranian news source who rephrased if from a rumor coming from Florida right-wingers who floated it on right-wing websites after getting from a websit from the Venezualen opposition! It's true!"

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
10. Reuters: Venezuela's Hugo Chavez dies from cancer - VP
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:07 PM
Mar 2013

CARACAS | Tue Mar 5, 2013 9:57pm GMT

(Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has died after a two-year battle with cancer...

/... http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/05/uk-venezuela-chavez-idUKBRE92405620130305

- & all over my Spanish TV news/debate programmes...

Hayabusa

(2,135 posts)
160. Happened on Hannity
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 09:32 PM
Mar 2013

heard it while in my room a while ago. Guest host gleefully announced it while "Celebration" was playing. Stay classy, conservatives. Stay classy.

Warpy

(111,162 posts)
12. Not entirely unexpected, I'm afraid.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:07 PM
Mar 2013

Cancer is a stinker, period.

The headline is also on CNN and MSNBC so it seems an official announcement has been made.

It will be interesting to see whether he's a dead hero or a dead villain, something Venezuelans will have to decide.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
13. It's a sad day for those of us on the left.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:07 PM
Mar 2013

Chavez fought for a better Venezuela, with socialism and social justice--and anti-imperialism. I hope the Bolivarian revolution survives him and improves upon his legacy.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
86. The politics of the entire continent has shifted. A new generation is benefitting from Chavez's and
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:20 PM
Mar 2013

the Bolivarians' successes during recent decades. It is a new, democratic political landscape today, out of the ashes of an era of the politics of right-wing terror. The last of the corrupt, right-wing autocratic states is falling finally. In a landslide history will remember, Hugo won over the whole continent politically, not just his own elections. His voice will not go silent, not today, not tomorrow.

jzodda

(2,124 posts)
17. Here's to wishing that the people of Venezuela come through this ok
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:10 PM
Mar 2013

I have had very mixed feelings about this man. He did some good and did some bad imo. I suppose that could be said for many. He did lower the price of gas for the Citgo stations in the Bronx. I remember that and was thankful for it as well.

So for those who did like this man and for his supporters in Venezuela- I am sorry for your loss.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
19. No one should celebrate this news.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:10 PM
Mar 2013

A man has died, a flawed man but one who did as much good for his people as he could. The people of Venezuela want the revolution's gains to survive, and will fight for them.

It's been sickening to watch the cyber-vultures circling here for weeks now, dreaming of this day. Those who wanted Chavez dead or out of power are no different than those who always insisted on calling Salvador Allende the "Marxist president" of Chile and who kept pushing for HIS overthrow and death.

My heart is in Venezuela now. May the people win.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
108. Grave dancing is a DU art form
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:32 PM
Mar 2013

no one should be exempt. There is nothing special or extraordinarily about Chavez - just another South American strong man. Another one will be along shortly to take his place and life will go on.

 

Nihil

(13,508 posts)
184. The main difference about that particular "South American strong man" ...
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 07:25 AM
Mar 2013

... was that, unlike most of the other "leaders" of SA countries over the decades,
he wasn't picked by the USA.

That fact alone explains why every Chavez thread attracts the same old right-wing
trolls every time.

R.I.P. President Chavez - you did your best and that's all any good man can do.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
20. So sad.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:11 PM
Mar 2013

He fought so hard. My heart goes out to his family and all the people of Venezuela who loved him, and whose lives he changed so much.

RIP Mr. Chavez.

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
21. I knew that was coming.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:13 PM
Mar 2013

When his supporters are beginning to accuse his enemies of poisoning him, I thought, that means he' dead, right?

I'm sad.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,155 posts)
29. Certainly a polarizing figure.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:17 PM
Mar 2013

In my opinion, he was neither a messiah (as some of his supporters make him) nor a devil (as his enemies paint him).

He did some good things for his country and his people, maintained a very populist persona, and far as I know, managed to be fairly democratically elected at all times.

However, I did have some issues with him on his crackdowns on free speech and free press.

But essentially, he was a latin american Huey Long, no more and no less. I always found it laughable when his detractors placed him in the same catagory as some of the worst dictators in recent memory. That was hyperbole, to say the least.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
30. If you do ANYTHING good at all, anything that matters, you're gonna be polarizing.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:19 PM
Mar 2013

It's impossible to be "universally beloved" without also essentially being useless and irrelevant.

Rider3

(919 posts)
31. Good post
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:20 PM
Mar 2013

I agree with you. He was also one of the only ones who helped get heating oil to the needy in the Northeast via Joe Kennedy.

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
105. To be fair, how many of us would support a free press
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:31 PM
Mar 2013

if that free press spent most of its energies trying to stage a coup against a democratically elected government?

Personally, I had no problems with Chavez revoking the TV licences of stations that had supported the coup against him. They threw their lot in with an anti-democratic, CIA-sponsored putsch and they lost.

RIP a flawed man, who nevertheless was re-elected time and time again because his people knew that he was vastly preferable to the alternative.

timdog44

(1,388 posts)
33. Sad news.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:23 PM
Mar 2013

He was man who thought of his people and did much good.

I grieve. I can hear the capitalists cheering already.

struggle4progress

(118,235 posts)
36. Venezuela announces death of President Chavez
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:31 PM
Mar 2013

By FABIOLA SANCHEZ and FRANK BAJAK, Associated Press | March 5, 2013 | Updated: March 5, 2013 4:24pm

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — Venezuela's vice president announced that President Hugo Chavez died on Tuesday ...

Vice President Nicolas Maduro said that Chavez died "after battling a tough illness for nearly two years."

The death apparently sets up a presidential election to replace Chavez, whose illness prevented him from taking the oath of office for the term to which he was re-elected last year ...

http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Venezuela-announces-death-of-President-Chavez-4330140.php

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
37. Good riddance to a bad dictator
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:32 PM
Mar 2013

A dictator is a dictator - left or right, no difference


Pathetic that some on here praise the murderous thug.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
70. A democracy is a democracy, and democracies have Presidents, a difference of note.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:08 PM
Mar 2013

Did you miss that lesson in Political Science 101? It was day one. Or did you just forget to take note?

pam4water

(2,916 posts)
80. He is not a dictator if he is elected and the only thing he murdered were tax exemptions for the oil
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:15 PM
Mar 2013

exporters.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
82. You should take your uninformed slanders and start your own "pissing on the dead" thread.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:17 PM
Mar 2013

I am really biting my tongue with the numbskulled ignorance and hatred you display.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
97. and a troll is a troll..
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:26 PM
Mar 2013

still waiting for you to provide examples of his murderous dictatorship. i'm certain you haven't got back because it's such an enormous task.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
128. idiotic post. Their elections were more open, way more open, than ours.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:54 PM
Mar 2013

If Chavez was a dictator, so was FDR, then again many rightwing nutjobs from that era made exactly that claim about Roosevelt.

 

Adenoid_Hynkel

(14,093 posts)
42. and now our brave oil companies can get back to colonizing Venezuela
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:42 PM
Mar 2013

Who did this guy think he was anyway, going around and criticizing our Chosen by God leader George Dubya Boosh for trying to overthrow him with a coup?

flamingdem

(39,308 posts)
44. He gave his life to his country
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:43 PM
Mar 2013

And helped many americans in the process with low cost heating oil

Que viva hugo bueana suerte maduro

flamingdem

(39,308 posts)
45. He gave his life to his country
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:43 PM
Mar 2013

And helped many americans in the process with low cost heating oil

Que viva hugo bueana suerte maduro

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
49. R.I.P.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:46 PM
Mar 2013

Whatever his faults, he worked to make his people's lives better. Would that our leaders did the same.

 

unreadierLizard

(475 posts)
52. Let's hope
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:48 PM
Mar 2013

that Venezuela gets the freedom of expression, the press, and the media back that he took.

For all the good he may have done, it doesn't take away he did it by trampling on the people's right to dissent.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
56. not to mention the total corruption, and uncontrolled violence
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:52 PM
Mar 2013

I am not real confident of his successor, Maduro. Further social upheaval is my fear, even worse than the out of control violence occuring now.

Jazzgirl

(3,744 posts)
81. He didn't take anybody's freedom of expression or stifle the press and media.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:16 PM
Mar 2013

The media that complained about him pushed bullshit propaganda and also anti government rhetoric that was against the law. They were part of the oligarchs, at least the ones that got called out. Read some facts.

Edited to correct spelling

totodeinhere

(13,056 posts)
103. Ant government rhetoric that was against the law?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:30 PM
Mar 2013

Laws that regulate what is legal to say and what is not are the beginnings of a police state. He shut down media outlets. They probably where telling lies about him but the concept of free speech should allow us to tell lies as long as it's not libel. Because if we make telling lies illegal who is going to be the arbiter of truth? The Chavez government? Nobody should put that much faith in any government.

totodeinhere

(13,056 posts)
119. Advocating that should be against the law. I agree. But Chavez shut down media outlets
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:45 PM
Mar 2013

for saying much less than that.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
85. Did he beat, arrest, jail and fine protestors the way
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:19 PM
Mar 2013

our governments did the Occupiers?

Did the Venezuelans have to pass through Homeland Security checks on their way in and out of the country?

Did their press push the people to support a foreign war based on lies?

What does it mean to have the right to dissent taken away?

I think that Chavez will be judged by what happens in Venezuela once he is gone. If the people of Venezuela enjoy increasing democratic institutions including elections, he will be viewed as successful -- a leader who moved his country toward democracy.

If he is followed by a left-wing dictatorship, he will be hated.

If he is followed by a right-wing dictatorship, he will be remembered with love, admiration and appreciation for the short period in which the Venezuelan people saw an improvement in their society with regard to education, a movement toward democracy however imperfect and a beloved leader.

So, I think that if he was able to establish enough democratic structure, enough democratic institutions for his people to move toward real democracy, then he will have succeeded. If he did not do that, the Venezuelan people will suffer. That is my opinion. I think it is too soon to judge his legacy.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
165. Nobody who busts Chavez on that stuff actually cares about democracy
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 10:12 PM
Mar 2013

In discussing Venezuela, all of those things you listed are just code for "no fair...the RICH didn't get to steal the election".

 

unreadierLizard

(475 posts)
166. Um?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 10:27 PM
Mar 2013

Because I disagreed with aspects of Chavez's rule does not mean that I am "pro-rich", whatever that means.

As I said. He did do a lot of good things, especially in his quest to help the poor. But he also did do some not so great things at the same time.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
53. Viva Hugo, a Bolivarian champion of South American democracy, a great representative of his people
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:50 PM
Mar 2013

Chavez, unlike so many a leader in South America, did not become corrupted by power, elitism, or foreign interests. He will live on eternally in the history of South American liberation from post-colonial imperialism and corporatism as a great leader who inspired a continent-wide shift in political life from the era of murdering leftists to the age of progressive democracies independent of foreign control.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
59. Let's not pretend we have the right to dissent in the US.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:57 PM
Mar 2013

I have been to OWS Minneapolis protests. I have seen first hand what the PTB things of our right to dissent.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
60. Viva Chavez -
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 06:59 PM
Mar 2013

Against all odds, he attempted to make a more fair, more equal Venzuela. The US did just about everything in its power to stop the socialsit revolution in Latin America, including attempting to to overthrough Chavez, a democratically elected official. This is a dangerous time for that country -- I can already feel the US/multinational greed monsters positively itching to regain their control of the Venezualean oil fields. I hope the people remain string against imperialism, and remain true to the revolution.

Botany

(70,447 posts)
67. I will always remember his UN address
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:03 PM
Mar 2013

"The devil cam here yesterday, the devil came here. And it still smells of sulphur."

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
75. Victory to the people of Venezuela in their upcoming battle with the CIA and Big Oil
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:12 PM
Mar 2013

Only the rich in Caracas and Miami would benefit if the PSUV were forced out of power and replaced by "Mitt" Capriles.

A man has died...but a revolution lives...and the people of Venezuela will defend it to the last.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
77. I'm very sad to hear that.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:12 PM
Mar 2013

Presidente Hugo Chavez was a champion of the poor and powerless, as well as an implacable enemy to exploiters and imperialists. He will be greatly missed.

1KansasDem

(251 posts)
91. There appears to be many here
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:22 PM
Mar 2013

who would sell their right to protest, freedom of speech, and right to assemble for a few barrels of heating oil.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
104. shit, we did that EXACT thing right here in the good ol' YOU ESS of AY..
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:30 PM
Mar 2013

except we didn't get that barrel of heating oil. does the OWS crackdown ring any bells for you?

DainBramaged

(39,191 posts)
98. I am concerned over the coming influence of outside money taking over the government
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:27 PM
Mar 2013

remember, he privatized everything, maybe that era is over.

DainBramaged

(39,191 posts)
179. Amazing how they come out of the woodwork isn't it?
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 12:30 AM
Mar 2013

Reasonable people understood my meaning, for folks like him, I refuse to correct it since he is adamant about being a grammar nazi

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
155. --> This kind of activity...
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 09:03 PM
Mar 2013
... Recent WikiLeaks documents released on Venezuela describes Stratfor as “a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations such as Bhopal’s Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the US Department of Homeland Security, the US Marines and the US Defence Intelligence Agency.”

“The emails,” WikiLeaks goes on to explain, “show Stratfor’s web of informers, pay-off structure, payment laundering techniques and psychological methods.”

The filtered emails cover a wide range of issues on the energy sector, especially oil; political change and the state of right-wing forces inside Venezuela; and the state of the country's armed forces. They also refer to Venezuela’s relations with Cuba, China, Russia and Iran, and provide bleak projections for the economy and the financial sector.

The Serbian-based and US-supported Center for Applied Non-Violent Action and Strategies (CANVAS) is yet another such 'global intelligence' front of what, in practice, are organizations specializing in engineering social turmoil – even civil war – as countries like Serbia, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria have painfully learned.

The leaked emails from CANVAS had them explaining their recommended strategy for toppling governments, as in one revealing message to Stratfor:

“When somebody asks us for help, as in Vene (sic!) case, we usually ask them the question ‘and how would you do it?’. That means that the first thing is to create a situational analysis (the word doc I sent you) and after that comes “Mission Statement” (still left to be done) and then “Operational Concept”, which is the plan for campaign... For this case we have three campaigns: Unification of opposition, campaign for [September 2010 parliamentary elections] and parallel with that a 'get out and vote' campaign.”

Very straightforward!

Stratfor’s founder and chairman is one George Friedman, who is regularly interviewed in the Wall Street Journal, CNBC and CNN and is advisor to JPMorganChase, CitiGroup and Ernst & Young. Stratfor’s president & CEO is Shea Morenz, who for many years was a senior officer at Goldman Sachs. Not exactly corporations and megabanks bent on promoting the common good of the people of Venezuela, or of any other country in Latin America or elsewhere.

Clearly, there are no sharp lines separating these private intelligence publishers and analysts, think tanks like the Council on Foreign Relations, RAND Corporation, National Endowment for Democracy and major corporations, from public US-Government agencies like the CIA, NSA, USAID and the State Department.

In fact, throughout Latin America, lucid political observers will always keep an eye on what 'La Embajada' is up to. 'La Embajada' is Spanish for 'The Embassy' – not just any embassy, of course, but the local Embassy of the United States.

No surprise then to learn that this batch of WikiLeaks documents reveals US-based firms working to overthrow Hugo Chavez by assisting and financing opposition candidates like Henrique Capriles Radonsky, who was Chavez’s main opposition candidate, coming in second place in last year’s presidential elections.

Capriles Radonsky is strongly backed by US, European and Israeli interests, thanks to his notable alignment to those countries’ objectives in Venezuela and the region. Of Jewish background – in a country with a very tiny Jewish community – Radonsky promises to steer Venezuela away from the close ties forged by Chavez with Iran, Cuba, Russia, China and (until it was overrun and destroyed by NATO) also Libya.

Due to President Chavez’s ailing health, this public-private US initiative is again hard at work promoting all opposition forces inside Venezuela, whilst they eagerly await good news (for them) about president Chavez’s condition, hoping that he may have to relinquish the presidency he won late last year, which would mean new elections in a Venezuela without Chavez.

That would spell real tragedy for that country, as the US public-private initiative would again go into full 'lets-get-our-boy-into-the-Miraflores-presidential-palace-in-Caracas' Mode...

/... http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34176.htm
 

Pararescue

(131 posts)
111. I will neither mourn nor rejoice.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:37 PM
Mar 2013

I don't care either way, has no bearing on my life whatsoever. I have my own problems and his passing doesn't impact it at all.
All I will say is may he Rest In Peace and let History be his Judge.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
120. As Democrats, we need to be pressing the president WE elected and re-elected.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:46 PM
Mar 2013

To leave Venezuela alone.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
169. Not what I meant...and none of those things are the problem.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 10:59 PM
Mar 2013

We need to not be trying to intervene in the question of who leads Venezuela...agreed?

It's not our place, for example, to try to indicate who our "preferred" candidate is.

kimbutgar

(21,055 posts)
121. RIP Chavez
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:47 PM
Mar 2013

You thumbed your nose at the oil companies, you improved the lives of millions of Venezuelans.

I once met a newlywed couple who were on their honeymoon in Mexico. They told me a lot about Chavez and how they were once poor but under Chavez were able to go to college and get good jobs. They told me the US hated him because he nationalized the oil and gave the money to help the poor. I went to Caracas in 1985 and it was so poor. I saw a picture of the same area I had been to and it was no longer slums but efficient apartments and the poverty was not like it was in 1985. Anybody who helps poor people lift themselves out of poverty is not at all a bad person vin my opinion. Our media here in the US told us to hate Chavez but I never could. He is no longer in pain. And I feel sorry for the people of Venezuela who lost their leader and saw the good in him.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,271 posts)
136. More or less - and before he died. 'Infected by outsiders'
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:05 PM
Mar 2013
[Updated at 1:46 p.m. ET] Venezuela accused the domestic and foreign enemies of Venezuela of somehow infecting ailing President Hugo Chavez and expelled a U.S. Embassy attache who it said was seeking military support for a plot against the government, Vice President Nicolas Maduro said Tuesday.

David Del Monaco, an Air Force attache for the U.S. Embassy, had been expelled Tuesday "for being implicated in conspiratorial plan, the information ministry said.

Some day, he told the press in a lengthy statement, there will be "scientific proof" that Chavez, fighting a battle with cancer, was somehow infected by outsiders. He also called Venezuela's political right-wing an "oligarchy" and an "enemy of the nation."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/05/chavezs-condition-has-worsened-venezuelan-tv-says/

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
154. they sure did, first they blamed enemies of inoculating him with cancer and then
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 09:00 PM
Mar 2013

announced his death.

Melinda

(5,465 posts)
131. President Chavez and I were both born on July 28, 1954.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:56 PM
Mar 2013

Just an aside that made me smile and feel my own mortality simultaneously.

Nacimos el mismo día en el mismo año, 28 de julio de 1954. El presidente Chávez tuvo un tremendo coraje y corazón y se preocupaba por los pobres y oprimidos del mundo. Su valor reside en la voluntad del pueblo venezolano. Dios lo tenga en su alma, señor Presidente, y gracias por el bien que has hecho.

Hugo Chavez was a good man, a humanitarian, a man who loved the poor and wanted better for all people. I pray he was content at his end, and that the people of Venezuela continue his good works. Rest with angels, Mr. President.

totodeinhere

(13,056 posts)
132. I would hate to believe that President Obama would authorize efforts to destabilize that country.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:58 PM
Mar 2013
Mr. Maduro warned in a lengthy televised speech that the United States was seeking to destabilize the country and the government expelled two American military attachés, accusing one of seeking to recruit Venezuelan military personnel. He called on Venezuelans to unite as he raised the specter of foreign intervention.

[link:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/06/world/americas/hugo-chavez-of-venezuela-dies.html?hp&_r=0|
If this account is true then that makes Obama no better than Bush doesn't it? But as I said I don't believe it. The man that I worked for and contributed to could not do something like that. And I fear the ascension to power of anyone like Maduro who would spread such slander about the Obama Administration.

Judi Lynn

(160,450 posts)
135. Are you aware of what happened with Honduras?
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:04 PM
Mar 2013

U.S. foreign policy on Latin America has ALWAYS had an acquisitive, vicious mind of its own, regardless of who's in charge.

It doesn't take long to realize right-wingers have ALWAYS been in there pushing and shoving in our foreign affairs from the very first, regardless, to the detriment of the entire world.

Matilda

(6,384 posts)
147. Because foreign policy - yours and ours too - is controlled by the multinationals.
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:32 PM
Mar 2013

Collectively, the big corporations have wealth beyond that of many countries, and not just the poorest amongst us. No western government is brave enough to go against the interests of the military/industrial complex.

Hugo was brave enough; he was a rare man indeed.

 

Alamuti Lotus

(3,093 posts)
146. terribly sad news
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:23 PM
Mar 2013

not without his flaws, but I would say that he is perhaps one of very few world leaders that I wouldn't have lined up against the wall.

If places like this are any indication, I fear that the worms and vultures will soon be descending on his memory with the familiar force of arms and foreign funding. I hope that times have changed enough, such that they will continue to fail in their counterrevolutionary attempts at insurrection.

a la izquierda

(11,791 posts)
149. I take this news with much trepidation...
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:42 PM
Mar 2013

those of us who are experts in the region (and I am admittedly not a South American specialist, but a Mexico/Central America specialist) wait, nervously, for what is to come.
Latin America, like other parts of the world, has its polarizing political figures. By looking at things in black or white, Americans demonize what they do not understand about a political system that is different than our own.

Between this and developments in Mexico, my email is blowing up.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
162. Never forget the poor he helped..millions and then there was what he said about GW Bush, LOL:
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 09:36 PM
Mar 2013

In a 2006 speech to the UN General Assembly, he ( Chavez) called U.S. President George W. Bush the devil, saying the podium reeked of sulfur after the U.S. president's address.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/venezuela-president-hugo-chavez-dies-age-58-after-battle-with-cancer-1.507532


RIP Chavez, the anti-Imperialist.

SamKnause

(13,088 posts)
168. Hugo Chavez
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 10:49 PM
Mar 2013

Devastating news, totally devastating.

I tried to prepare myself for this outcome, but I kept hoping that he would recover.

RIP Hugo Chavez

Condolences to your family, friends and the millions around the world who loved and admired you.

I would have loved to had the pleasure of voting for you.

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
171. regardless what anyone thinks of him now - he will forever be remembered as a hero who championed
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 11:25 PM
Mar 2013

independence, self-determination and justice for the poor and all those for whom there is no room in today's new economy - not only in Venezuela but throughout all of Latin America and indeed for the whole world. Peace be upon him,

Dash87

(3,220 posts)
176. RIP I guess. Unlike most here, I was fully neutral to Chavez.
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 12:15 AM
Mar 2013

He might be the most misquoted person in history, though

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
186. I'm not happy, nor sad
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:08 AM
Mar 2013

Chavez hated the US and seemed pretty paranoid that we were trying to overthrow his government. 20+ years of being president is too long for one person to hold power. If he'd lived there was a good chance he would continued to be president indefinitely. I hope the country can figure out peacefully who will be the best person to succeed him is.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
187. Mexico's President Fox refused to recognize the government we installed in April 2002,...
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:20 AM
Mar 2013

The governments of most Latin American countries refused to recognize it too. Hence, the coup manufactured by the CIA fell apart. good morning

Judi Lynn

(160,450 posts)
192. He took office in 1999. He was re-elected each time after that by Venezuelans
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 06:35 PM
Mar 2013

who made their decision based on what they believed he could do for their country, just the way it happened in the U.S. until F.D.R. died in office during his own fourth term, and the Republicans rushed to change our laws to make certain an effective, and beloved Democrat could never hold office that long again, REGARDLESS of what the Founding Fathers initially created in our constitution.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
194. He gerryrigged the Venezualan Constitution to stay in power
Thu Mar 7, 2013, 12:13 AM
Mar 2013

If someone did that in this country there is no way people would stand for it.

I also think comparing Chavez to FDR is quite a stretch.

As I said, I'm not happy nor sad, I hope the people will figure out peacefully who is the most capable of leading their country.

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