North Korea ends armistice

[Douglas Carpenter]

Source: CNN

The latest exercises fall under the shadow of North Korea's army declaring invalid the armistice agreement that ended the Korean War in 1953, an article in Rodong Sinmun, the official newspaper of North Korea's ruling Workers' Party, reported Monday.

With the declaration, Pyongyang made good on its threat to nullify the armistice.
Despite the strong language, analysts say North Korea is years away from having the technology necessary to mount a nuclear warhead on a missile and aim it accurately at a target.

And, analysts say, North Korea is unlikely to seek a direct military conflict with the United States, preferring instead to try to gain traction through threats and the buildup of its military deterrent.

In another sign of the crumbling relations, North Korea severed its hotline with Seoul, South Korea's unification ministry said Monday, according to the Yonhap news agency. The ministry said the North failed to answer two attempts to communicate by telephone at 9 a.m. and 4 p.m. local time.



Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/11/world/asia/south-korea-military-exercises/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

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This is certainly a worrisome sign..anyone familiar with the realities of Korean geography and even the non-nuclear abilities North Korean undeniably does possess cannot help but worry where all of this is headed.

[onehandle]

1. I forget... Which party held the White House when NK started testing nuclear weapons?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

2. At that time North Korea was reaching out to the U.S.

and wanted to reconcile with South Korea. Instead, Chimpy and friends put them on the Axis of Evil list.

[kelliekat44]

39. many countries have been reaching out to the US over the years, including Iraq. But they are on the

PNAC hit list or if we just don't like their socialist governments we never reach back. Thus the unconscionable state of world affairs today.

[mwooldri]

3. IMO wouldn't have mattered who was in office.

The USA has retained a relatively consistent line with the DPRK, and it continues today with Obama, and it was like this before G HW Bush let alone G W Bush.

It also wouldn't have mattered if the DPRK had "the bomb" or not. Seoul is well within shelling distance from the North's border. The DPRK has pretty much always had a "military first" rule, absolutely paranoid that somehow the USA would wipe them off the face of the map. Chances of that happening are pretty slim but with the two Koreas ramping up arms against each other - DPRK especially so, and the Republic of Korea having the USA as a strong ally... right now it is a Korean Cold War. It is heating up... but with luck we won't hit boiling point.

I personally think that the regime in the DPRK can survive - and thrive - if it does a China - open up economically, relax a lot of social restrictions, but remain a staunch one-party state where criticism is not very much tolerated. Unless the leadership is too proud to do this of course.

[Berlin Expat]

6. The North Koreans

are committed to their "Juche" ideology, and if they pulled a China, as you described - which I should add, would probably be the best thing they could actually do - it would be a tacit admission that "Juche", and therefore Kim Il-sung and by extension, the North Korean state, were wrong.

One of those cases were ideological commitment takes absolute precedent over anything else.

I agree with your other points....the North Koreans could simply open a massive artillery barrage on Seoul and cause a hell of a lot of damage before they were stopped.

[James48]

4. Lock and load

here we go.

[azurnoir]

5. To cll this bad news is an understatement

the US may not be a target but Japan could be

[magic59]

7. For the 189th time

Yawn.................

[davidpdx]

8. The whole thing is so overblown by the media

This is just another one of North Korea's hissy fits.

[magic59]

9. So true

and that same corporate run media profits by keeping the US in a perpetual war setting.

[Botany]

10. If it is not one of their hissy fits then ...

..... N. Korea will end up as a greasy skid mark. If the N. Korea government
puts a nuclear tipped missile on a launch pad it will be taken out. I hope that
if "nasty things" happen the N. Korean people end up free of their dictators and
that they will be able to get something to eat.

BTW as the first poster noted ...... under Clinton who talked to the N. Koreans
they did not produce any nuclear weapons but under W we stopped talking to them'
and they produced some nuclear bombs.

[davidpdx]

11. There's no doubt we'd level them

I live 36 km from the North Korean border. I'm familiar with the history of the negotiations with North Korea. They have been nothing but dishonest over the past 20 years. I sometimes think there is no way to negotiate with them. I mean how do you negotiate with a crazed lunatic.

[Botany]

12. If push came to shove North Korea would be hammered into dust in a matter of days .....

.... but I feel so bad for the starving people of N. Korea and the enlisted members of the N. Korea
military who would take the brunt of any kind of war.

???? With you being over there do you have any idea if the N. Korean people and military would
stay loyal to the government if a war happened? I keep wondering just how long that the monarchy
which is N. Korea can last.

[John2]

14. I disagree with

your perception. I don't think it is about food but the right to self determination. If it was about food, the North Korean government would have been long overthrowned by its military. Some people would rather starve than to be dictated to. It is very easy to fix the situation on starvation anyway if it was only about starvation. That simple solution would be to lift all economic sanctions on North Korea and let them trade with other countries. It want happen because starvation is used as a weapon. The ordinary people in both countries are only pawns in the whole matter. If there is a nuclear confrontation on the Korean peninsula, only the entire Korean people lose, including North and South. It is very easy for an American on the mainland to contemplate even a suggestion of such a confrontation. The best solution is reunification for the entire peninsula regardless of what comes from it. That would mean all foreign influences stepping aside. That is unless you think the worst results out of Vietnam was reunification also.

[jeff47]

15. What would they trade?

It is very easy to fix the situation on starvation anyway if it was only about starvation. That simple solution would be to lift all economic sanctions on North Korea and let them trade with other countries.

You have to have something to trade in order for trade to work.

North Korea is the very crappy land with little natural resources between the "good" land in South Korea and China. As such they have very little in the way of natural resources to trade. Additionally, no one is about to plop down a factory to make some finished goods that they could trade.

The best solution is reunification for the entire peninsula regardless of what comes from it.

The thing is nobody particularly wants to own North Korea. It's got a lot of starving people and little in the way of resources to offset the expenses.

[L0oniX]

18. A future job out sourcing mecca for global corporations? n/t

[jeff47]

20. Not enough people.

And you'd have to worry about your factories and the materials you ship to them. If the North Koreans aren't willing to hold up their end of diplomatic agreements, why would you trust them to hold up their end of economic agreements?

[L0oniX]

21. Blah ...who trusts corporations anyway. Birds of a feather. n/t

[jeff47]

23. Corporations trust each other. It's only the little people they fuck over. (nt)

[sofa king]

27. Botany, I'm afraid the reverse is also true.

North Korea has literally thousands of artillery pieces in place, lavishly supplied with the ammunition that was bought in place of food, and within minutes of an outbreak of hostilities many kilotons of high explosive shells could fall on the heavily populated northern suburbs of Seoul. A couple hundred thousand civilians could be killed and wounded before the news even hit the Internet, and the depth of coverage North Korea commands in South Korean territory--at least twelve miles--ensures that there will be no escape for many of those people, as leaving shelter would be suicidal.

It is the South Korean civilians who would take the brunt of the initial blow, followed quickly by the loss of South Korea as an industrial power in the region. A war would instantly condemn South Koreans to a very North Korean existence, no matter what else happened after that.

I don't think the North Koreans are unwise enough to do that, but it is important to remember that this chump's grandfather did exactly that, and this kid reaps the rewards of that decision, meager as they are.

[Botany]

32. I think with our satellites and other monitoring actions of N. Korea every one of those guns ....

Last edited Mon Mar 11, 2013, 07:15 PM - Edit history (1)

.... would be taken out w/in 30 minutes and much of it would probably be done
pro-actively .... the South Koreans and the Americans have those guns targeted
with their own artillery pieces along w/ fuel air explosives (poor man's nukes),
guided missiles, and other ordinances that strike would be devastating.

North Korea's military would also have no communication structure and it's leadership
would also be either dead or in hiding w/in minutes of the start of any hostilities.

Although I think talking is much better then fighting and I think this is just Kim Jung Un's
"look @ me moment" and I have no doubt that the pentagon and the S. Korean military
have plans that are ready to go in case the situation "goes hot."

Although I do agree with you that if the N. Koreans fired their artillery pieces first
the S. Korean civilians would take a huge hit and that is why I think South Korea and the
US Military would hit them first.

BTW N. Korea would have zero backing of the Chinese this time and I think right now we
are talking to the Chinese and we are asking them to put some pressure on N. Korea to
back down.

Funny w/ Bill Clinton and Bill Richardson we talked to the N. Koreans (and they got some
much needed food stuffs too) but w/W we stopped talking to the N. Koreans and then they
built some nukes.

[davidpdx]

35. I don't foresee that talking will ever work

Most likely one of two things happen: 1) North Korea is dumb enough and attacks South Korea or 2) Some kind of an overthrow of the government happens. Unfortunately these are the most violent alternatives, but the only viable ones.

I am sure that if North Korea moved their artillery close to the boarder given the satellites we have, we would know. The other thing we don't know is what technology the United States may have defensively in South Korea. Apparently there are some things out there that can stop artillery.

[Botany]

36. Talking worked under Bill Clinton

It cost us some extra surplus food stuffs but in the end it was far cheaper then
spending money on military build ups and or a war along w/ helping to support farm
prices. W stopped talking to the N. Koreans even though the begged him to talk
and then to "show him who was boss" they built some A-bombs .... thanx W

I doubt that N. Korea will have to move any artillery into place because they are already
close to the DMZ ....... the "heat signature" of an artillery piece when it is fired will
give high tech weapons a perfect target on which to home in on. Even though those
few rounds might kill many people those artillery guns are in the use it and you will lose it category.

Again I hope that little Kim is just stomping his feet and demanding that the world pay
attention to him and nothing more comes of this ...... although I wish the world had a way
to help feed all those poor starving people in N. Korea.

[davidpdx]

40. Yes and No

First, I agree with you in terms of him "stopping his feet". That's exactly what he's doing. We have at times along with China, Japan, Russia, and South Korea talked to North Korea. The other problem is things blow up (not literally) in the Middle East and much of the time on policy is spend dealing with issues there (which wasn't helped by the fact that Dubya started two wars).

The talks under Clinton did product an agreement, which North Korea went back on. That's not Clinton's fault, it's North Korea's fault. I would only point out in that situation the reason it failed was 1) we used the carrot and the stick routine and they took the carrot and told us to go screw ourselves on the rest; 2) we trust North Korea. The talks probably slowed North Korea down a bit, but Dubya decided blowing up the Middle East was a better idea.

If there were to be negotiations it would have to be done differently. As I said in another post, it would be a mistake to trust either China or North Korea.

[davidpdx]

34. As do I

In the end, I don't think 100% of the military would stay loyal. Their soldiers get fed a little bit better than the average person, but not that much.

I was hopeful when Kim Jong Il died something would change, now I don't think it will.

[slackmaster]

13. Sometimes a government needs to simply be crushed

The DPRK may be one of them.

[Douglas Carpenter]

25. still the loss of hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives and the almost certain near

Last edited Mon Mar 11, 2013, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

total destruction of the Korean Peninsula and God knows what else that would unavoidably and inevitably result from crushing the KPRK would be most unfortunate.

[Nye Bevan]

16. Remember Neville Chamberlain. Remember Munich.

Hitler would have been a minor footnote to history if he had been stood up to early rather than appeased.

[Douglas Carpenter]

29. you are suggesting Chamberlain could have stopped Hitler from becoming anything more than a minor

footnote in history if he had not signed the peace deal in Munich? I think that IF it if were possible to simply stop North Korea - even exercise regime change - that might be a good idea - but given what inevitably would happen if that were to be attempted - I have to wonder whether the loss of perhaps millions of lives, the destruction of the Korean Peninsula and the ending of South Korea as a significant industrialized nation - and God knows what else would happen - I would really wonder if that would be worth the price?

[L0oniX]

17. So uhm techincally the war is on? ...just in time ...as the Afghan war draws down.

BTW ...did Lockheed Martin or GE stocks go up ...on that news?

[Posteritatis]

37. It was 'just' an armistice. The war has yet to end. (nt)

[olddots]

19. The media wants this war

CNN is tanking and ole Wolfy is bored ,can't wait for a cool name and graphics .Do we have a Tony Orlando tune for the theme song picked out ? can we get rights to action figure toys ?

Think of the money that can be made when we all become dust.

[Brother Buzz]

22. Perhaps Kim Jong-un is borrowing a page from Leonard Wibberley

Expecting a quick and total defeat, the country confidently expects to rebuild itself through the generous largess that the United States bestows on all its vanquished enemies. Think Germany and the Marshall Plan at the end of World War II.

[Douglas Carpenter]

24. what some people may not grasp is that given the geographic closeness of the major population

centers of South Korea to the North Korean boarder and their vast supplies of artillery and short range missiles. If an actual conflict were to break out - even without going nuclear - even assuming North Korea would get totally hammered very quickly in a conflict and lose the war very quickly - the loss of lives in the South alone - could likely total in the hundreds of thousands - if not much more. But North Korea does have nuclear weapons and it is ruled by people who are not very well glued to reality - so there is no telling what could happen.

[Posteritatis]

38. I imagine the South gets that; it's people abroad who are cavalier about it. (nt)

[Hekate]

41. Kim Jong-Un -- that little shit is trying to make his bones like in The Godfather

"Not very well glued to reality" indeed!

[no_hypocrisy]

26. Since Congress never declared war on North Korea, can we just

keep out of it this time?

[catbyte]

28. Boy, Mini Me must really be having authority problems.

Scares the hell out of me.

[magic59]

30. The bottom line is

We are hearing the same old be afraid, be very afraid crap that the press and government has been spewing since WWII. War = Money

[LibertyLover]

31. Given China's sponsoring of the most recent UN sanctions against N. Korea

I wonder if they might not step in and invade, ah, I mean join forces with their gallant Socialist ally DPRK, to protect her citizens from the vile running dog capitalist Americans and their lickspittal lackeys, the ROK. But of course carefully stopping at the border and in the process of protecting N. Korea, dumping Lil' Kim into the oubliette of history.

Either that or it's The Mouse That Roared rebuilding and rehabilitation plan in action.

[SpartanDem]

33. Whatever. They threaten to annihilate us every month

and they've the pulled phone thing before.