New super-Earth planet spurs hope for billions more
Astronomers have detected a rocky "super-Earth" planet orbiting a nearby star in a region where life could possibly exist, a finding that led one of the team from UC Santa Cruz to predict there must be billions more of them in the Milky Way.
The new-found planet is a big one, at least four and a half times as massive as Earth. It is 22 light-years from Earth,orbits its star every 28 days, and lies in the star's "habitable zone," where temperatures are just right - neither too hot nor too cold - for liquid water to support life on its surface.
Astronomers like to call that "the Goldilocks zone."
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/02/02/BAH01N1P41.DTL
A real life Avatar?
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)What if they are cursed with a segment of their population that is warlike, greedy, against helping their weakest segments, in favor of petty profits and against long term progress, planning and investments simply so they can make a few more #%£>\]+s every solar revolution?
In other words, what if they are too much like us? That would be very, very dangerous.
BadgerKid
(4,552 posts)To wit: the movie Contact.
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)The book contact made much better statements, though. They wanted to sell tickets.
Book includes quotes such as these:
A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.
Carl Sagan, Contact, pg 244
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe.[i/]
Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985
The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation.
Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 162.
What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job.
Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 164.
Anything you don't understand, Mr. Rankin, you attribute to God. God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it.
Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 166.
You see, the religious people -- most of them -- really think this planet is an experiment. That's what their beliefs come down to. Some god or other is always fixing and poking, messing around with tradesmen's wives, giving tablets on mountains, commanding you to mutilate your children, telling people what words they can say and what words they can't say, making people feel guilty about enjoying themselves, and like that. Why can't the gods leave well enough alone? All this intervention speaks of incompetence. If God didn't want Lot's wife to look back, why didn't he make her obedient, so she'd do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn't made Lot such a shithead, maybe she would've listened to him more. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants? Why's he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there's one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition.
Sol Hadden in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 285.
The Earth is an object lesson for the apprentice gods. 'If you really screw up,' they get told, 'you'll make something like Earth.'
Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 286.
Edited to fix citations. (originally they were in square brackets which freaked out the board software and made them not show up)
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I have seen the movie several times and I am a huge Sagan fan. Out of all of the people who have lived
on this planet, Sagan is one of the most amazing thinkers that has ever existed. We lost him far too soon.
For some odd reason, I've never read Contact. It sounds like the book really lambasts religion moreso than
the movie did.
Looks like the movie impacted you as well!
ewagner
(18,964 posts)One of the big differences in the book is that makes you examine belief systems in a rational way and yet makes allowances for human emotions.
One of my favorite scenes in the book that was left out of the movie was the sequence with Dr Arroway and Goss (the evangelist) in front of a museum with a Foucault pendulum....it was the most inspiring explanation of human needs to believe in...something...that I've ever read.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...and I'll be anxious to read the Foucault scene as well.
My favorite scene in the movie, was when Ellie Arroway was "put on trail" and forced to explain her
experiences in space. Religious forces fought her every step of the way, because her experience
did not jive (or contradicted) their "beliefs". That scene encapsulated what is wrong with religion
today. People do not want to hear the truth or facts. They will tear you down and make an enemy
out of you--before they will hear the truth.
I grew up in a very staunch, Catholic family and was educated at private Catholic schools all of my life.
All of that dogma was central to my life. I no longer have any of that--after my own long life journey.
I understand why it is hard--even impossible--for people to let go of their "beliefs." You are faced
with some pretty harsh realities. The possibility of no afterlife. The possibility that 'this is it.' The
possibility that YOU make it happen and that there is no loving, supreme being who wants the best
for you--guiding your life. Basically--that we are alone and that it's just you.
It's too terrifying for people because they aren't at peace with themselves. That's the essence of the human
condition though. It's how we're hardwired. But we're taught that feelings are wrong; and the pharmaceutical
industry has a quick cure for every normal emotion you want to stuff down. We don't deal with our humanity very
well. We need heaven. We need terrible events to make sense and to believe that tragedies are part of some
grand, loving plan that will someday make sense in some amazing alternate world.
I live in a part of the country where being a non-believer is tantamount to saying that you are a serial killer. I listen
to people tell their children that you will marry "whoever God intends for you to marry" and that "God must
have wanted him in heaven" when a spouse dies in a car accident or a child dies of cancer. When someone succeeds
they are told that "God gave them those talents and allowed them to flourish." When someone does beat cancer they are
told "See! I knew God would save you!"--and remaining completely oblivious to the fact that they have indirectly stated
that those who die of cancer were just not important or good enough for God to save.
I used to get irritated by all of this around me. Now, I'm just settled into the realization that many people will
need to think in these absurd, intellectually bizarre ways.
I'm a happy, content, adventurous camper--but more often than not--I feel like a curious visitor on this planet who
just does not fit in.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)and being a public official, I have to carefully guard my beliefs because our part of the county, like yours, has a strong religious element. So far, they have allowed me to be branded (by them) as a "Deiest"...and pray for me often.
I'd like to think that I'm a lot like Dr. Arroway in the sense that I believe in "something" but not buying into the standard line.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)except the "no afterlife" part. Obviously, if we became animated without a god once, we can be again. There's no reason why religion should have a monopoly on an afterlife.
sofa king
(10,857 posts)It starts off a little like a warm fuzzy Sagan story, but then it becomes clear that the universe is just as much in favor of a level playing field as any Republican lawmaker... and guess who just got spotted by Bain Galactic?
There is a sequel to that book, called Anvil of Stars, which is an attempt at far-future hard science fiction--rarely pulled off well--that focuses on the futility of retribution on a galactic scale, among other things. By the time humans show up with payback, they're separated from home by thousands of years' worth of relativity and distance, so that there is no point in returning home.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...that doesn't mean that he didn't have biases and should not be questioned. I think that his work is flawed by a zeal for rational thought that is almost religious in its intensity and that causes him to ignore, or underestimate, other vital components of human understanding.
I've been thinking about this for a long time--indeed, from my first viewing of "Cosmos," a magnificent production for its time, but one that is shot through with certain prejudices that have bothered me, for instance, Sagan disses the Pythagoreans (Greek/Phoenician inventors of mathematics) for their "mysticism" and "elitism" and asserts that their spiritual beliefs were a grave "flaw." The Pythagoreans FEARED MISUSE OF THEIR KNOWLEDGE. That is WHY (or part of why) they were "elitists" (tried to keep a lid on certain secrets). Their history bears this out. They were persecuted and driven from certain areas by tyrannical leaders who hated the Pythagoreans for not using their knowledge and educational authority to aid tyrannical government (war, violence, greed by the powerful).
The other main reason that they were "elitist" is that they were genuine mystics. They cultivated detachment and disinterestedness in personal wealth and advancement--and in all the worldly attachments of our ego-selves--for the very reason that their astonishing insights into the pure realm of mathematics could not occur if the mind was clouded with personal greed and with social prejudices and petty superstitions. They sought to be "apart" for the purpose of THINKING. This, of course, led to strict control over their membership ("elitism" , to long educational apprenticeships for new members and to their refusal to be "used" by the powerful to oppress others.
Sagan failed to grasp how dangerous free thinking was in that--or, indeed, in any--era, and what free thinking might MEAN to those who first developed it and cultivated it. The Pythagoreans considered mathematical thought to be a SPIRITUAL endeavor--i.e., the HIGHEST form of religion, profoundly connected to ETHICAL behavior--and they understood very well that this form of thought presented a threat to lower forms of religion and to the petty tyrants who used religious/political propaganda and violence to control others.
We have only to look at our own era and the development of nuclear weapons to understand what the Pythagoreans feared as to MISUSE of esoteric knowledge. Give people who are not strictly schooled in ethics and non-egotistical behavior the secrets of the physical universe, and what will they do with those secrets?
Sagan descries the Pythagoreans' "mysticism" without understanding it and makes this mistake time and again--for instance, when he disses astrology, and fails to acknowledge that astrology (belief that human life is connected to "the stars" is the MOTHER OF astronomy. Without the human desire to BE connected to "the stars," human beings would never have begun to track the movements of heavenly bodies. Until very recently, astrology and astronomy were ONE endeavor. If we just lop one of them off and say "It's bunk," we are cutting out the heart--the driving force--of human activity: our desire to be connected to something larger than ourselves, and our intense longing to understand the mysteries of our own existence.
Rather than honor astrology as "the mother of astronomy," while making the nuanced point that modern astrology is a degraded version of astrology (brought about in part by PERSECUTION of ancient philosophers as "witches" and "wizards" , Sagan instead just throws out the entire origin of astronomy. And he does not recognize HIS OWN desire for MYSTICAL connection with "the stars" as manifested in his own obsession with discovering extraterrestrial life.
This is too superficial for me. Human life and thought is far more complex than Sagan was willing to acknowledge.
In fact, Sagan becomes something of an elitist himself, in his BIASED hostility to religion, one of the prime means of human effort to connect with something larger than ourselves. Believe me, neither "pure reason" nor modern science have all the answers. Where does respect for the Earth come in? Where does compassion come in? Where do democracy and equality come in? How does "mother love" fit into a "rational" world? Is our plague of homelessness the fault of religion or the fault of a cruel economic system based on mathematics? (--how many digits you have in your bank account).
We have reason to fear rightwing religious powermongers, it's true. But we also have reason to fear Monsanto ("pure science" , Exxon Mobil ("pure engineering" , and drone spy planes and bombers ("pure war" . Rationally, why shouldn't we cross a fish gene with a tomato gene? Rationally, why shouldn't the strong and the clever prevail? We're finding out what's dangerous and even lethal to all life in the application of "pure science" to the physical world for profit purposes. And I've certainly thought, more than once, that the Pythagoreans were RIGHT: we NEED an elite of non-materialistic philosophers--people profoundly committed to the good of all--to control knowledge that the rest of us (most particularly, our capitalists) cannot safely handle.
Most times, I'm a pure democrat with a small "d." I believe that democracy--when it is working right--will elevate wisdom and promote the common good. (But it ain't working right, that's for damn sure.)
I love Sagan and his works. Don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is, don't worship him. And beware of this notion that "pure reason" or "pure science" are "the answer."
Sagan dismisses and ridicules "the mob." That is a form of elitism in itself. Be wary of his paintbrush in "Contact." He is loading the argument with broad swipes at religious believers and most definitely sees himself as a "crusader" against them. And the conclusion of "Contact" is most certainly "mystical" (a word that he uses as an epithet against the Pythagoreans). The powerful aliens, who reward our heroine with a mystical experience, are going to keep their existence a SECRET from the rest of humanity! The rest of humanity is NOT READY for the knowledge that they have! How Pythagorean is THAT?
Sagan, brilliant though he is, is full of contradictions. He is flawed. He is human. As are we all. That is one good reason to come down on the side of democracy with a small "d," for all its perils. History is full of the misrule of elites--religious and otherwise. And the Pythagoreans failed to protect even themselves from oppression. Their elitism was not a successful strategy for achieving the common good (which they sincerely sought, from what I can tell).
I think that Sagan's flawed and biased view of history and his direct attacks upon religion and "superstition" were a bad strategy for educating people. And he forgets that every great scientist in the history of the world was born in religion, educated in religion, imbued with religion and religiously inspired to pursue science--including the great Sir Isaac Newton and all the Arabs and Persians (and Chinese), not to mention all the great tribal medicine men and women who preceded them. ALL considered science a "heavenly pursuit"--even the "rationalists." The biggest "rationalist" of all, Newton, was experimenting in his basement with the deep, dark, ancient art of ALCHEMY! Why? Because he wasn't sure that the material world was all that rational!
Today we're almost back there, at Alchemy--the ability to turn one form of matter into another. That was not such a strange notion after all. Sagan blinds himself to the spiritual and poetic insights of the human mind that DON'T COME FROM rational thought. On his crusade for rational thought, he fundamentally misunderstands and mis-characterizes the human mind, with all its devious and creative pathways to knowledge and truth. He was on a noble journey, for sure--one that demands respect and admiration. He was most certainly one of the guiding geniuses of the "space age." He understood that human endeavor profoundly. It is our search for other beings like us--the discovery that will trump all others. The discovery of discoveries. And it is quite sad that he could not enjoy (or is he?) this latest evidence that we are not alone--a habitable planet so near by. He was right about this! This is our destiny. I revere him for understanding this--that all of human history points us outward, to "the stars."
But he was wrong about why we aren't there yet. It is NOT religion that is holding us back. It is corporate greedbags, war profiteers, warmongers and their political lackeys--the very same forces that we must learn how to disempower, in order to have a democracy (a society in which everyone has a voice and everyone has a chance). These forces are irreligious in the extreme. They believe in nothing but their own greed. Religion, on the other hand, can equalize people, and has often done so. It is not all bad, by any means. It is sometimes the communal expression of the equality and preciousness of every human being. That is the core value that attracts billions of poor people to Catholic churches in Latin America, despite the bad history of the Church and fascist elites in that region. They believe in that core value--that all souls are equal. That may also be what inspires billions of poor Muslims to their mosques--the religion is the equalizer. It represents a communal belief in equality and the communal strength necessary to care for all. The notion that science is good and religion is bad is myopic, even stupid. I don't admire Sagan for this. I think he made a big mistake--had a big, self-deluded hole in his thinking.
Sagan generalized "the mob" as deluded, anti-science and superstitious, and considered himself an elite of one, the defender of the rational. He does make a few stabs at trying to be fair, in "Contact," but he largely doesn't succeed because he fails to realize that his protagonist IS religious, in her own way. She stands for him, and she is as obsessively devoted as any god-freak religious believer to her own notion of religious ecstasy: contact with extraterrestrials. That meeting is mystical and that meeting excludes the rest of the human race. The extraterrestrial whom she encounters (who takes the form of her dead father) tells her that the rest of humanity is still too child-like to meet them. (You gotta wonder why they sent plans for the big gyroscope, in that case!). Humbug, I say! The author didn't know how to end it, because he had come right smack up against his own irrational, contradictory, elitist viewpoint, which he had criticized the Pythagoreans for, in "Cosmos."
What I admire him for is TRYING. "Cosmos" to "Contact" is a noble journey--one of the noblest. He tries very, very hard, to understand his own obsession and even his own failures (for instance, his failure to inspire the U.S. to vigorously pursue the highest NASA goal: other life, and his own disgust with religion, which I think got him targeted by some nutballs). He wasn't able to make his obsession universal, the way, say, Shakespeare might have done. In "Contact," his enemies become cartoons; his heroine is too virtuous. It's a whopping good tale--but flawed. Do you have to hate religion in order to admire and promote space exploration? Come on. Religion is not the obstacle. Our society being hijacked by profiteers and do-badders is the biggest obstacle to "the stars," to the other human-like critters who are surely out there and to our maturity as a species.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)You're right about the ending, and I never noticed the contradictions before. All this buildup to humans making contact and only an "elect" get to really experience it, and no one else really believes them? And the rest of us aren't "ready" yet. Then the final "message" that the universe is a made thing because a circle buried deep in Pi. Boy, if that isn't a religious experience I don't know what is.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)I don't understand your comment. Please explain.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)The Earth is an object lesson for the apprentice gods. 'If you really screw up,' they get told, 'you'll make something like Earth.'
Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 286.
My favorite is the George Santayana quote:
"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect...."
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Somebody has to be the bad guy
HowHasItComeToThis
(3,566 posts)ahimsa
(426 posts)But they might be religious and worship some other character. Or is that a joke and it went over my head? I'm thinking there's a clue in that avatar photo but I'm not getting it.
sce56
(4,828 posts)The pilgrims came to the new world to freely worship god as they pleased, the Spaniards came to colonize and subjected the heathens to Christianity even if it killed them!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Nor did later protestants have the slightest compunction against massacres, forced conversions, and the like. In fact Indian cultures, languages, and beliefs are far more intact in Latin America than they are in either the US or Canada.
Weird, huh? Might have something to do with much of the territory being uninhabitable for exploration-era Europeans. or perhaps the Spanish / Portuguese approach of just using the territories as places to extractwealth from, rather than places to transplant the country's population to.
Kablooie
(18,632 posts)rayofreason
(2,259 posts)ahimsa
(426 posts)..then Christians are not people to spurn!
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)SaintPete
(533 posts)for no reason other than someone needed to say something that was just the opposite of what you said.
I know Christians are an unloved minority on DU, and that they are vilified and demonized. I know that there are many Christians that deserve the hit. But there are also many Christians that are generous, caring progressives, and ten thousand times more tolerant than your post. I thought it was a Democratic principle to protect the rights of minorities from the oppression of the majority? On DU, Christians are the minority. Your post does not represent the Democratic values that I hold dear.
Imagine if a Republican Congressman had said "I HOPE THEY ARE NOT MUSLIMS. WE HAVE HAD ALL WE CAN STAND!" Would you support that comment, or would you be here on DU, ridiculing that politician for his/her backward ways and intolerant thinking? I think I know the answer.
I'm not even a Christian, and your post make me feel unwelcome at DU, so imagine how DUers who are Christian feel when they read your words.
ahimsa
(426 posts)Needed to be said out loud apparently.
Welcome to DU on behalf of those who think like you.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)emilyg
(22,742 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)CubicleGuy
(323 posts)They can hardly wait to drill for oil there.
eomer
(3,845 posts)I love Avatar, but "Unobtanium" was silly.
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)Do they ever divulge the atomic number of Unobtanium, and explain how something with an atomic number that high has a half life long enough to mine?
I'm guessing not!
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Or else, the stuff is a naturally superconducting magnet that makes mountains float in the air. That's not really explained, so this won't spoil anything for you.
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)I don't know anything about this move (except it involved 3D blue people) but after reading about unobtainium and floating rocks, I think I'd have to watch an hour of [link:http://www.ted.com/talks| before and after!
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)In the sci-fi community the term "unobtaintium" is used to describe techno-babble like Star Trek's "Di-Lithium Crystals".
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)glinda
(14,807 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)does anyone know how to get decan-spirits out of a cabala-fueled memory theater?
sudopod
(5,019 posts)An acolyte will be there within the cycle.
Skwid
(86 posts)Probably a good thing.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 3, 2012, 07:57 AM - Edit history (1)
...dictates that that kind of travel is simply impossible (or improbable, at the least).
Sorry, but our race will die out in this solar system.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)than the speed of light will we ever travel to any of them. But that will be far in the future and not in our lifetime.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Kurmudgeon
(1,751 posts)Kurmudgeon
(1,751 posts)I suspect humankind will have to figure out a whole new science, or it could very well be that we'll never escape the solar system with enough velocity to make such travel feasible within a lifetime. Seed ships may be our only possibility.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)..we will eventually figure out a way to travel at a significant fraction of the speed of light making travel to near-by habitable planets possible but only one-way for the foreseeable future....
there are many caveats to this...mostly boiling down to a race to see if we can advance technology faster than we can destroy ourselves.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)All you need is a power source that would continue for 23 years - you have to turn the direction of thrust 180 degrees at mid-point to decelerate, of course. That's for a one-way trip. A round trip, with a decade on site, would last less than a human lifetime. Might even be less time for the passengers with relativistic effects.
See, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_travel_using_constant_acceleration
leveymg
(36,418 posts)SylviaD
(721 posts)120 years ago there were top scientists who thought powered heavier-than-air flight was impossible.
Making absolute statements about technology only looks bad in retrospect!
deutsey
(20,166 posts)If I remember correctly from classes, people in the early US thought it would take 1,000 years before the continent could be settled.
By 1900 there was no such thing as an unsettled Western frontier anymore.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)We should learn from that experience, lest we repeat it . . . or, have it happen to us.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)No more "manifest destiny" bullshit.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...we are so young as a species. We don't even know, what we don't know.
Technology and science will continued to advance in ways that we haven't even dreamed of yet.
NEOBuckeye
(2,781 posts)People once said that mankind would never be able to fly.
We'll figure out space travel eventually, that is, if we can figure out how to stop killing ourselves and our homeworld first. Call me an optimist, but I think we will.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)We must keep our earth livable.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)"lack of vision and imagination club"
Man will never travel in space because the rocket would be too heavy to get off the ground.
(Reason given during the turn of the century why man will never travel in space. Of course, they didn't have enough vision or imagination to think of using the spin of the earth to help, or multiple stage rockets)
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 4, 2012, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)
And we are currently starting to direct our own evolution in a conscious sense.
Keeping our current planet habitable is merely good sense.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Every year, science finds that Travel such as this might be possible.
Naysayers once said you couldn't get a man into space because of weight. They didn't take into account you could use the spin of the earth to help, or use multiple stages on a rocket.
You're one of those people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)to pre-position space platforms at intervals along the way loaded with energy packs and other supplies. Then send out biosphere ships loaded with humans to follow the trail. Generations of people will live on these ships, picking up the pre-positioned supplies and energy to run life support systems as they fly toward the new star.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)What if everyone had believed that?
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)Certainly we are limited by the speed of light. That doesn't mean we choose to die out rather than a multi-generational trip elsewhere. And if the ship approaches the speed of light, time will slow down for the passengers. We've got about 5 billion years to think about it--and that's just doing it with out current conceptions of travel and based on the limitations we know today.
We have a lot mysteries of this universe left to unlock. Quantum tunneling works at the macro scale as well. We can't manipulate it now. We may never be able to manipulate it. We don't know any of the secrets that dark matter/energy might provide when we begin to understand it.
If we make it to a class 1 civilization, we'll make it to a class 2. My concern is making it to a class 1 before we kill ourselves before the sun ever has a chance.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)My guess is that a global pandemic will stop the clock. Some effect of overpopulation will get us sooner or later.
Our only chance is to develop suspended animation and start the hundreds to thousands of years trips.
But what happens if we get there and life is not sustainable? Dead end, no return because humanity is done on Earth.
What happens if we find that Earth-like body and start a colony?
The overpopulation clock starts again.
gtar100
(4,192 posts)they would probably do *anything* to keep us away.
What Europe did to America and Africa, humans will do to *any* new land.
Maybe you and I would cherish a new world with the reverence it deserves, but even (or maybe especially) in today's world there would still be the modern day Christopher Columbus and Queen Isabella behind such ventures into space. Unless we can change humanities perspective on what is important and valuable in life, we are a menace to any new land we set our sights on.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)exactly where we are at, and what we would do.
What beautiful creatures and habitat could there be; to over run another place with our relentless fertility, animosity, stupidity and greed would be tragic.
we are the most peaceful, civilized beings in the universe. perhaps these other civilizations would give no more thought to wiping us out than we would to an ant hill in the backyard.
gtar100
(4,192 posts)28 days for an entire orbit is incredibly fast. And it's a much larger planet than the earth - more mass hurling through space at an incredible clip. I wonder what sort of effect that would have on the processes that sustain life? There may not even exist the concept of a season. People would be in such a rush.
bleedinglib
(212 posts)If there were only one civilization for every one trillion stars in the universe? there would be one hundred trillion civilzations. thats how vast this universe is.
How many planets are circling those stars? There are 10 times as many stars in this univers as there are grains of sand on all the beaches in the world. thats a lot of 0000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000's
Of course god couldn't have possibly made the mistake of reproducing republicans in another galaxy?
could he????
Maybe we should just protect the planet we have!!
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)From the planet's own reference frame it's stationary - we don't feel Earth's orbiting around the sun, and given the distances involved (and the fact that GJ 667C is much smaller than the sun) we're probably actually moving considerably faster than this planet is.
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Tripod
(854 posts)Is it part of the Gamma ray Bubble? Probbably. I hope that it has a better chance then the moon, or mars for life.
cbrer
(1,831 posts)Now all we need to do is develop an inter stellar drive capable of maintaining some significant fraction of the speed of light!
Oh...nevermind. We put NASA on the shelf. Maybe the Chinese?
The Doctor.
(17,266 posts)"Earth-like" is not.
This planet is only 'habitable' 20,000 miles below the surface and with major adaptations in material science and regenerative biotechnologies.
We don't even do that here, in a place where most of the work is done for us.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Even worse is the inside of a fridge of this 47 year old, divorced, confirmed bachelor. NASA could be running lab experiments in there.
The Doctor.
(17,266 posts)Don't open the fridge.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)flexnor
(392 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)I weigh a ton as it is...
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)4.5 the mass of earth.
28 day orbit in "Goldilocks Zone."
Is the star is an M-class dwarf, so it's mass is relatively low (as is it's radius) They also aren't hot.
For all of this to be true (and I think it is) that planet must practically be on top of the star as it orbits, right?
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Gliese 581: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_581
Gliese 581 g: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_581_g
Only main issue is the tidal lock, since we don't really know how a tidal lock will affect a system in the "habitable zone."
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)I get a semi-major axis of .12 au or about 17 million km, less than a third the distance out Mercury orbits from Sol.
Edit: *sigh* And it was wasted effort because I looked up the wrong damn planetary system. >_<
Edit x2: OK, I give up. Wikipedia is saying .28 au for Cc (the planet is question), several different online Kepler's 3rd calculators are giving me different numbers as well. Either way, it's still inside Mercury's orbit.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)...with a good chunk of the daytime hemisphere covered by a faintly glowing red dwarf. Kinda neat to think about.
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)Within the next 2-3 decades we ought to be able to have a much clearer idea of how such systems might operate. I hope I live long enough to see the first actual picture of an exoplanet... and I don't mean that fuzzy black-and-white shit they've tried calling a photograph.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)We have had actual pictures of exoplanets but they are but one pixel or so. But I know what you're saying. You'd need a rather massive telescope to be able to image one directly, pick out the continents and whatnot.
I do think there's about a 95% chance we discover life elsewhere on an exoplanet in 10-15 years though. Once the ultra large telescopes go on line we can do spectroscopy. Molecular oxygen? Life.
Doc Holliday
(719 posts)...I don't know how we could deal with four times Earth-normal gravity. Unless this planet's core is considerably less dense than ours....in which case there would not be much to exploit in the way of heavy metals.
This makes me think of a cheesy series of novels I read some years ago....the "America 2040" series. The intrepid space travelers in that story wound up stranded on a planet 2.5 times the size of Earth, but with a low mass, which made human habitation possible. Problem was that their spacecraft was powered by a very rare and very heavy element....they needed pounds of it, and only tiny trace amounts were accessible by their mining technology.
Interesting premise for a series of crappy novels. I'd give them a 5 on the 10-scale.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)they obviously don't have radio technology as wouldn't we have intercepted a signal by now?
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)That's part of the problem with trying to find intelligent life: Space is so vast that even though there may be billions of potential life-bearing worlds in our galaxy alone (not just Earth-like, but truly "alien" environments antithetical to carbon-based systems), that the chances of any two worlds bearing life, bearing advanced life, bearing intelligent life, bearing technological life with radio capability and not wiping themselves out in the process long enough to at the very least transmit radio signals strong enough out into space and detect them from each other... at the same time... may well be exceedingly and depressingly remote. It could also be that any advanced civilizations out there no longer bother with terribly inefficient radio transmissions, hence our inability to detect emission bleed, whereas Earth hemorrhages radio signals into space.
We live in a fascinating time, but sadly lack the means currently to *really* answer these questions. We live in the twilight zone between eras with regards to astronomy: Before confirmation of exoplanets (which we've passed) and before confirmation of exoplanets bearing actual life (which we've yet to do, and that will likely be in the form of carbon-based systems due to our carbon-bias). Right now all we have are a lot of possible candidates depending on how you work the metrics. "Journalists" who keep throwing out "Earth-like world found! OMGWTFBBQLOL" really need to banned for life from writing ever again. It might be that within the next 10-30 years we will have the means to detect real, actual life-bearing worlds (as far as being Earth-like... again, there may be other systems we overlook due to carbon-bias) and perhaps by the end of the century we'll detect something more than that, but for now all we have are exoplanets populated by "what-if"s and "could-be"s.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 4, 2012, 02:15 PM - Edit history (1)
Somehow a lot of folks can't get past the Star Trek vision, where our journey through the galaxy involves wedging our ape-like bodies into oversized SUV's for the trip. That might make for passable sci-fi, but it's an extremely limiting view. It simply makes no sense that Man will somehow choose to advance our spaceship technology to the point where near light speeds are achievable but leave the occupants in our present state of evolution. Given the frailties of the human body and brain, a more plausible scenario IMO is one where the conscious mind and sensory inputs are expressed within a technological framework. There have already been baby steps taken that indicate such a state may not be impossibly far off. See "Transhumanism", or "The Singularity is Near" by Raymond Kurzweil for more on this.
Another even more "out there" scenario, if human interaction with other galactic civilizations is the goal, would be to digitally encode the mind and DNA of our human traveler along with care and feeding instructions, and beam the blueprints toward likely spots. If "they" are motivated to, they can assemble their new human and give him or her a tour. More than likely though, they would simply load Fred's mental contents into whatever mechanism, including their own minds, for a direct interface. In fact, a compilation of civilizations and knowledge could be assembled if the process is repeated.
Politicub
(12,165 posts)Maybe one day we'll have technology to get a closer look at some of these planets.
But until then, they don't need to make an announcement each day.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)We need the funding. We need to answer this question.