Pope holds historic meeting with predecessor Benedict

[onehandle]

Source: AFP

Pope Francis flew in to a papal residence near Rome on Saturday for an unprecedented encounter with "pope emeritus" Benedict XVI -- the first time a pontiff has met his predecessor.

The talks round off a historic few weeks for the Roman Catholic Church after Benedict became the first pope to resign in over 700 years and only the second to do so by choice in 2,000 years.

The last pope to resign -- Celestine V in 1294 -- was locked up and perhaps killed off by his successor Boniface VIII and there is no record of the two ever meeting post-resignation.

Highlighting the unusual nature of the encounter, both men are expected to wear white papal vestments since Benedict has been allowed to continue wearing his pontifical robes as well as using the title "Your Holiness".

Read more: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pope-prepares-historic-meet-predecessor-024438208.html

[Botany]

1. So what?

[hrmjustin]

7. It is historic, that is why it was posted.

[treestar]

55. That photo rules!

[DFW]

2. "The first time a Pontiff has met with his predecessor" Well DUH

Except for "Papa Ratzi" retiring while alive, popes usually only become pope because their predecessor has died.

It's not like popes for the last 700 years would have had the option !

[Beacool]

3. Maybe he'll take him all the clothes he left behind that Francis won't wear.

The fancy red velvet cloaks and hats trimmed with ermine, the hand made Prada red shoes, etc. The gold throne and the jeweled encrusted gold crosses have already been put in storage. The new Pope prefers to wear his own iron cross and sit on a plain white chair.

[davidpdx]

30. I heard they are going to put Benedict's red high heels on display

along with the video of him singing this:

[Beacool]

31. Funny!

I didn't see that movie, which one is it?

[davidpdx]

45. Anger Management

The movie is which is what the TV series with Charlie Sheen is based on. The series is also really good and has Selma Blair in it.

[Beacool]

46. I'm going to have to watch it.

Thanks.

[underpants]

4. I wonder if they compared their brackets

Florida Gulf Coast!?!?!? OMG!!!

[underpants]

5. Just two elderly long-time single men having lunch together

happens all the time

[Ikonoklast]

6. While wearing Prada...all paid for by other people.

Nice gig.

[hrmjustin]

8. Francis has chosen not to where red shoes and Benedict is not pope anymore so he

does not where red shoes anymore. By the way they were not Prada. They were made by a local shoemaker in Rome.

[Ikonoklast]

10. We all must economize in these tough economic times.

Symbolism before substance usually impresses the gullible.

[SylviaD]

11. What's your problem anyway? Why not move on to a thread more your liking? n/t

[Ikonoklast]

13. I'll do as I please, and if you don't like it, oh well.

I like this thread, so many high horses.

[Sherman A1]

14. Amazing

Such civility........

[RainDog]

15. This is an organization dedicated to sexism and homophobia

Why do you think this person deserves civility when the same is not accorded to Mitt Romney or Jerry Falwell, etc.

What's the difference in their positions regarding females?

People on DU who are Catholic have made a big to-do that they are not the hierarchy of the church. Yet, as we see with onehandle, he or she makes hateful statements against people on DU who are not okay with this stance and does it by offering up multiple threads about the Pope, who is the head of the hierarchy and who could not have obtained his position if he did not agree with the hierarchy.

So, the dishonesty required to pretend you don't support the hierarchy but you do... what rational mind makes this claim?

How many here on DU support choice for women? Not their choice, but others' choice? To me, anyone on DU who is not pro-choice doesn't belong here, for instance.

There are rules to this effect.

But the Pope isn't held to that same standard because?

Anyone who doesn't have his or her head in the sand knows this is a p.r. blitz to provide something for celebrity junkies while the real news is that Ratzinger should be called to provide evidence and testimony about his cover up for pedophiles.

Now, why can't we be nice about homophobia, sexism and pedophilia?

Dunno.

Dunno why anyone like onehandle can claim not to support the hierarchy since his/her posts indicate otherwise, either.

[Sherman A1]

17. Gee,

No matter what your viewpoint of the Catholic Church, It's members, It's hierarchy, The Other Members of DU, Myself, The Weather, The Chicago Cubs or Mustard.

This was a post noting a historic event and therefore it appears we cannot be civil to one another?

My, my, my...... how very sad.

[RainDog]

33. This post has a context

that is outside of this post.

You can go to one handle's info, if you really care to know what's sad, and see those posts that will indicate to you that onehandle has created posts to try to stir up shit and blame those opposed to the position of this institution in political life to demonstrate to you that one handle is not being civil at all.

but I doubt you will b/c you most likely want to maintain your bias, not read what this person has posted here.

[Sherman A1]

34. Ah,

So we are on to the mind reading, between the line reading, physic reading of posts........which has to do with civility we do not know, but............

First we must engage the "Flux Capacitor".

[RainDog]

35. If you look at your posts on this thread

You have made remarks to those who have noted that support for the Pope is support for homophobia and sexism. This is the same institution that recently murdered a woman in Ireland by denying her an abortion AFTER a miscarriage.

If you had made a remark regarding anyone else, such an assumption wouldn't have been insinuated. Pretty simple.

No flux capacitor required.

[Sherman A1]

36. If you read my posts

you would have noted they were about civility. But, perhaps it's just easier to put words into others mouths when attempting to advance one's agenda.

[RainDog]

37. Yes, but you failed to read the other posts, apparently

because you had nothing to say about civility in that case.

If an organization is dedicated to bigotry, I hardly think civility is necessary regarding that organization. Again, we don't accord the Republican Party that same civility, nor anyone who comes here and posts things of a positive nature regarding the Republican Party.

Yes, liberals have an agenda to advance.

This is a political message board. People have strong opinions.

Oh dear! Someone said something unpleasant about the leader of a right wing institution! Heaven forfend such should occur on DU.

[Sherman A1]

40. Well,

You completely missed the point of what I posted, but you are on a roll so enjoy yourself. Whatever works out best for you.........

And by the way, I did read the posts.

[RainDog]

41. Or I have a valid point

and, if you wanted to come across as someone who was not defending one position, you would've noted the other. This is common in attempts to persuade - you need to acknowledge the valid points behind others' objections, rather than just single out one side of an argument.

Your way isn't how civility is encouraged because it's one-sided.

[Sherman A1]

47. It is National Pecan Day

enjoy.

[RainDog]

49. You again prove my point

Last edited Mon Mar 25, 2013, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)

losers resort to insult.

That's certainly all about civility.

[Sherman A1]

48. You may indeed have a valid point

however, you and I are talking about two different topics. Perhaps you missed that.

[RainDog]

56. okay. since you took this thread as an example of "bullying"

here's how it went down.

ikonoclast made two snarky remarks about the tradition of wearing Prada shoes, noting their expense, etc.
SylviaD said to that person - why don't you go post somewhere else.

Ikonoclast said he's post where he'd like.

You singled out Ikonclast in that exchange and told him he was being uncivil but said nothing about SylviaD's post to him.

Later he made another post that Beacool said did not reflect the Jesuits.
Ikonclast begged to differ b/c he had attended Jesuit schools.

You singled out Ikonoclast and claimed his experience was invalid and just an excuse to be upset. You attempted to invalidate his experience.

I noted reasons why people might not have positive feelings toward the RCC church and its leader

You told me I missed the point about civility.
You said I was a nut.
You said that my explanations for why people on a political message board might have something unkind to say about a right wing institution missed the point that Ikonoclast, but not you or SylviaD, should show some deference to the OP.

And then you go complain about others on another thread.

Because others were uncivil about a right wing figure.

But only one side was being uncivil, according to your reading.

[RainDog]

42. But I do have to ask

Since you read the posts...

How do you reconcile the reality that onehandle is mocking feminists and members of the GBLT community here with these digs about "afraid the Pope will succeed?" Onehandle is advocating for repression of women's rights, denial of abortion rights, relegation of woman away from positions of power (This pope is already on record having stated that women are unfit for political office... so, that's a DIRECT ATTACK against every Democratic woman in political office, and the presumed next presidential candidate for the U.S., Hillary Clinton,) and the actions of an organization that spent vast sums of money to defeat equal rights legislation in California.

All this is okay - by what logic?

Who, as a Democrat, thinks it's okay to post p.r. to boost the reputation of a group that has still not come to terms with its criminal past regarding sheltering pedophiles that goes back to Paul VI?

I guess some groups are more privileged than others.

[Ikonoklast]

16. Yes, amazing. "If you don't like this thread..."

I suppose I should do as told, the apologists are getting upset.

[Beacool]

18. I see that you know nothing about Francis.

The man is a Jesuit and has been practicing what he preaches for years. He has plenty of substance.

[Ikonoklast]

19. I see you know nothing about the SOJ.

I was educated by them. Were you?

A more authoritarian, conservative organization will not be found under the Vatican's banner.

[Sherman A1]

20. Careful

You might confuse the outrage with the facts.

[rexcat]

39. Just like when the preist, Jorge Mario Bergoglio...

spoke out against the right wing government death squads in Argentina, but he did not! Now there is some substance.

On edit: the death squads in Argentina were going after leftist and your new pope is extremely conservative. Could there be a connection to his not saying anything in dissent to the death squads?

[RainDog]

43. Bergoglio was opposed to liberation theology

but there's no evidence he actually collaborated with the death squads.

There is evidence that the archbishop of Argentina who served just before him did hide political prisoners from the Int'l Human Rights group that came to check on the activity of the navy unit that was tasked with slitting dissidents' bowels open and throwing them, live, from airplanes to drown and sink in the ocean. This repressive, right wing regime adopted the tactic of slitting bowels after so many dissidents began to wash up on shore - hard to claim someone is "disappeared" when their bodies are in your yard.

One priest, Christian von Wernich, did conspire with the junta and was convicted of torture and murder. Before he could be brought to justice, however, members of the church hierarchy in Argentina tried to hid him in Chile, to help him avoid justice.

He was brought back to Argentina and the church continued to offer mass to that priest. Yet this same organization has gone after liberals who refuse to force their personal beliefs on others who do not share it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/argentinas-disappeared-father-christian-the-priest-who-did-the-devils-work-396564.html

Outside the courthouse in La Plata, 50 miles south of Buenos Aires, late on Tuesday, the crowds were ready for what they were sure was coming. Finally, the word leaked that a verdict had been handed down – and it was the right one. They beat their drums, women undid white headscarves and raised them in the air, fireworks were lit and somewhere in the midst of the throng a human effigy was set alight.

It was an extraordinary explosion of emotion, replicated in cafes and homes across the land at the end of a televised trial that had lasted three months and gripped the entire population. But if there was joy, even relief in Argentina yesterday, its feelings remained far more complicated. This conviction was a moment of cleansing and resolution. But it also was a reminder of deep, incomprehensible pain.

The effigy of cardboard and cloth was in the likeness of the man convicted – in a dog collar of the Catholic Church. The Reverend Christian von Wernich, 69, a former police chaplain, was sentenced to life in prison for collaborating with the Buenos Aires police during the dark days of the country's "Dirty War", when, between 1976 and 1983, the military ran the country in a cruel and ruthless dictatorship.

Von Wernich, wearing a bullet-proof vest, who had compared himself to Jesus Christ in his testimony before a three-judge panel, was found guilty of involvement in seven murders, as well as 31 cases of torture and 42 kidnappings. He had participated, prosecutors said, in crimes that amounted to "genocide". Von Wernich told the court he had been doing "God's work".

[rexcat]

50. I never said he collaborated...

but his silence was deafening! Also nice try to put words in my mouth.

[RainDog]

44. Or rather, I should say

The priest who accused Bergoglio of assisting the junta in the kidnapping of this liberation theology priest, and another one, kept the evidence of "one person who knew things" that the priest had to implicate this person - who has never been named.

The same priest, however, did claim Bergoglio had given him up to the junta based upon the religious questions the junta asked.

The two priests were kidnapped days after Bergoglio removed them from their positions because of their support for liberation theology. They were held, interrogated and drugged for months.

The priest who initially made the claim no longer lives in Argentina. He kept the evidence in a closet for years. He finally decided he had to destroy the evidence in order to forgive.

That's the priest's version of the story.

[rexcat]

51. Read post 50...

and I never accused him in my post that he assisted the junta.

My guess is Bergoglio is more conservative than Ratzinger. That is all I am saying. I don't see the catholic church moving towards the center anytime soon.

[broadcaster75201]

9. "History" happens every day. Most of it is as meaningless as this n/t

nt

[Ken Burch]

12. Did they watch The Weather Channel together?

[TeamPooka]

21. Two Popes, No Waiting... nt

[backscatter712]

22. I wonder if Maladict will take up painting...

Maybe he could get some lessons in Crawford...

[Ken Burch]

26. If he does, I hope he gets a gallery show

It doesn't go well for the world when German painters fail.

[defacto7]

23. No offence... but

..isn't it time this stuff was back in religion? It's not LBN anymore.

[markiv]

24. new pope and pope classic - nt

[onehandle]

28. In this case New Pope™ is preferred over Pope Classic™. nt

[Beacool]

38. Hear, hear!!!

[Ken Burch]

25. Any record of new popes having seances with the ghosts of their predecessors?

That would be far more interesting.

I'd especially like to know if John XXIII said to Dead Pius XII, "so...what did you do in the war, Holy Daddy?"

[onehandle]

27. Maybe that will be covered in a future Dan Brown flick. nt

[SunSeeker]

29. I wonder if they discussed time apportionment regarding that handsome assistant they share...

[Beacool]

32. Wow, he IS handsome!!!

Yummy looking........






Pity.........

[rurallib]

52. "flew in" - how fucking big is the Vatican?

or did he not use any aircraft?

[onehandle]

53. Pope Emeritus Benedict is at a castle about 20 miles away from the Vatican.

And to get there through the streets of Rome and beyond would have snarled traffic or worse.

[rurallib]

54. thank you - I thought he was in the vatican