Republicans prohibit funding for high speed rail

[KeepItReal]

House Republicans late Thursday night adopted an amendment that would prohibit California from receiving any high speed rail money in a huge five-year transportation bill headed to the House floor next week. The $270 billion bill also eliminates bicycle and pedestrian programs and detaches urban mass transit funding from its traditional revenue source. The underlying bill did not include any high speed rail funding to begin with, and indeed would cut Amtrak by 25 percent, so the prohibition serves mainly as a stick in the eye to California’s plan for bullet trains.

The action is part of a continuing effort by Republicans to kill the entire project, which was a major element of President Obama’s 2009 stimulus. California’s $100 billion plan for bullet trains running from San Francisco to San Diego already has the stimulus money in hand to get started, but future federal funding on which the project depends is very much at risk if House Republicans maintain control of the chamber, not to mention take the White House.

The high speed rail prohibition came as an amendment, approved 31-22, by Rep. Jeff Dunham, R-Turlock, who said he wanted to make sure that all transportation funds for California to go to highways.
...
Although House Republicans are touting their success in keeping the bill free of earmarks, they are having problems with the bill within their own caucus. Rank-and-file member complained that it was hatched behind closed doors before landing in committee, and the conservative Club for Growth coming out against the bill. Its reliance on funding to materialize from oil drilling is considered somewhat magical.

http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2012/02/03/republicans-prohibit-funding-for-high-speed-rail

[mzteris]

1. what do freaking republicans

have against high-speed rail???

Walker royally screwed us over with his refusal of hsr funds!

I guess they just like those damn road contractors and big oil. Do the car makers figure in, too?

[silverweb]

5. It's "socialistic."

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Seriously.

I read some time ago (an article posted here at DU, but I don't recall any other details regarding its source) that reTHUGs oppose high-speed rail because it encourages a "socialistic" mindset of meeting group schedules.

Thus, they stated, it deprives people of the "liberty" of going where they want when they want.

If I can find the article again, I'll post it, but I have to get to work right now.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

13. If the network of Interstate Highways was proposed today

it would suffer the same fate with the same arguments, depriving people of the liberty of freedom of movement, as well as just being socialist.

Eisenhower would never be able to push it through today's congress.

Besides all that, the interstates were modeled after a "European" system, so we don't like it.

[unc70]

44. The interstate highways were opposed by Jesse Helms, et al

Helms opposed all sorts of things as socialist. In addition to Federal highways, he opposed things like rural electrification co-ops.

[Badsam]

83. If I remember correctly, the highways were

Modeled after Germany's autobahn so we could move mass quantities of military men and machine to where ever needed fast

[nxylas]

106. Yes, which makes them NAZI ROADS!!!!

Isn't Ron Paul opposed to Interstates?

[CBHagman]

85. Yeah, I suspect that would be the case.

One of the most marked characteristics of the current crop of House Republicans, aside from the sheer spitefulness, is the ignorance -- no context, no understanding of the big picture, no acknowledgement that theory and reality are two different things.

[MidwestTransplant]

16. They should give up flying then.

[Beartracks]

25. LOL High-speed air is socialist, doncha know? n/t

[Joe Bacon]

37. The only high speed rail Republicans want...

It's Dagney Taggart's super train running on Rearden Metal rails.

Now that would make Paul Ryan pitch a tent...

[Beartracks]

39. Well, they'd also want to railroad Pres. Obama...

... if they could.

=========================

[Auntie Bush]

66. Beat me too it...was thinking the same thing. lol

[24601]

103. There is no more high speed air, except for military aircraft. All commercial SST have been

retired and the only passenger planes remaining are sub-sonic.

[boppers]

28. You can charter a plane.

A train, not so much.

[MidwestTransplant]

34. How many of them do you think charter planes to travel to and from their districts?

I would bet you could count them on one hand.

[boppers]

43. You would be wrong.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-03-06-congress-flights-cover_x.htm

It's from 2006, but there's no reason to believe they decided to fly coach.

[tclambert]

45. Private jets. Much less security screening, . . . and NO PEASANTS ALLOWED.

[MidwestTransplant]

98. That is from 2006 and the rules changed in 2007 after Abramoff

Last edited Sun Feb 5, 2012, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)

And in any event that's not "chartering" a flight, that's hitching a ride on a corporate jet. A charter is obviously very expensive. They were just paying the equivalent coach fare.

[mwooldri]

80. Sure you can charter a train!

USA and Canada - http://www.railcharter.com/pvtrail/usacan/index.html
UK - http://www.trainchartering.com

[greenman3610]

65. I hope you will post that

[McCamy Taylor]

10. Less money spent on gasoline for cars and trucks.

[GoCubsGo]

99. Exactly right!

High speed rail cuts into the profits of their Big Oil masters. So do cycling and walking. Not to mention that President Obama supports all of them, so the repugs are automatically against them.

[harun]

54. Equality, progress, makes Obama look good, jobs, services, no profit for their backers, and

benefits urban voters.

Just to name a few.

[AlbertCat]

84. Equality, progress

Indeed. In the south all kinds of public transpo has been held back.... since the 20s and 30's... basically to keep the blacks down.

Just another one of those JimCrow-ish moves that really kept the whole south down.

[harun]

111. They are only hurting themselves.

[xtraxritical]

67. Obama proposed it

and it might stimulate the economy and help Obama's reelection chances. Mitch McCon's number one priority is to fuck the president even if it means the US loses it's AAA credit rating and he turns the US into a third world country. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DU SPELL CHECKER?

[tabasco]

86. Mega-rich people don't need it. n/t

[tooeyeten]

93. Upward mobility

of the poor and working class, who don't vote for Republicans.

[onehandle]

2. Scum of the earth. nt

[Mopar151]

3. RW morons say public transit=socialisim n/t

[silverweb]

6. Exactly.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]See my post #5 above. Maybe you read the same article and can find it faster than I can.

[Beartracks]

27. This is like something else I heard about L.A. history.

OK, sorry, no details, but someone I know who lives there told me that back in pre-WWII times, Ford Motor Co. (I think it was) made a deal with the growing L.A. to help the city build roads and infrastructure... as long as all the streetcars were ripped out. Voila - no streetcars, but lots of pavement for automobiles.

=========================

[Joe Bacon]

36. It was GM, Firestone and Chevron (Standard Oil of California)

The bought the Pacific Electric Red and Yellow Cars, deliberately drove the service into the ground and killed it by buying enough politicians off to force them to buy diesel buses.

It's a shame because my grandparents loved riding the Red and Yellow cars. They went all over Southern California. Once in a while you still come across a street that still has the old tracks in place that were paved over. A shame...

[Shadowflash]

51. Heh.

What you wrote is, basically, the entire plot to 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit'.

[baldguy]

4. Upcoming headlines: "Republicans Force Army To Replace M-16s With Bronze Swords & Leather Shields"

"Republicans Outlaw Internal Combustion Engine; Favor House & Buggy"

"Republicans Prohibit Funding For Electricity"

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. "Republicans Outlaw Antibiotics; Require Doctors to Use Leeches"

"Republicans Order Destruction of Telephone System In Favor of Tin Cans and Strings"

"Air Force Ordered by Republican Congress to Scrap F-22; Use Wright Flyers"

[Art_from_Ark]

22. "Republicans to replace Bill of Rights with Code of Hammurabi"

"Republican proposes the use of stoning in executions"
"Republican adds authorization of $100M in subsidies to buggy whip manufacturers in education bill"

[Diclotican]

46. Art_from_Ark

Art_from_Ark

Somehow I don't belive the Republicans would love Code of Hammurabi, as the code was pretty clear about punishment when crimes was been doing.. And the punishment for most crimes was either muternations, or excecutions.. And you should be pretty near the top to not be excecuted by the Code of Hammurabi..

Diclotican

[MACARD]

68. "Republicans outlaw Poorness, Punishment for being poor is removal of hands"

"Republicans fight the middle class enter regressive tax, middle class now pay more in taxes than Buffet."

"Republicans Create Rich People Exception, rich are exempt from Code of Hammurabi, now only punished by fines of $1,000."

[Art_from_Ark]

87. That is exactly why I cited the Code of Hammurabi

It is a very class-based code, with the most severe punishments reserved for the lowest classes. Today's Republican Party has nothing but disdain for the lower classes.

[mwooldri]

81. Almost there: Republicans in NH to cite English Magna Carta in new legislation.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/05/new-hampshire-republicans-to-require-all-bills-to-cite-english-magna-carta/

Seriously guys... there's only three bits of the Magna Carta still left on the English legislative books... and two of them are very specific to England (Church of England, City of London). Unless of course they want to subject NH to the Church of England... then that'd be a mistake because the CofE is by US standards very liberal.

[Beartracks]

38. Y'all need to start a Twitter hash with this stuff! n/t

[cstanleytech]

7. Behind closed doors probably with oil companies telling what they had better pass or else.

[barbtries]

8. republicans

SUCK.

[horny_toad]

9. High speed rail is a waste of money

We are NOT Europe, or China, or Japan.

California does everything over budget and behind schedule.

This project should be killed, for the sake of all of CA.

[crazylikafox]

11. Yes, Californians deserve to sit in traffic and burn gas

[XemaSab]

12. Regional transportation seems like a bigger priority

I can't get to the mall without three bus transfers here, and the mall is like two miles away.

On a less provincial level, light rail between Sacramento and Stockton, Davis, Woodland, Lincoln, Folsom, and Yuba City seems like it would do a lot more for a much lower cost. Or expanding BART way the hell out.

[Auggie]

58. Exactly. I voted against the bullet train for those very reasons.

[xxqqqzme]

69. The 'bullet train'

was the stem w/ regional light rail feeding to it.

[nanabugg]

89. I don't think people understad because no one has explained it to them.

Most Ameicans cannot ' conceptualize' they need someone to explain things with pictures, charts, graphs and maybe a film short. That's why we are in the condition we are in. They can visualize bombs, killing, and welfare queens because someone has taken the time to put the "picture" in their empty heads...Rush is good at it. But it's difficult for them to get a picture of anything for the common good.

[Posteritatis]

107. I imagine people don't understand because they don't want to understand. (nt)

[XemaSab]

114. Tell me what I'm missing here

[Travelman]

113. BINGO! Need to tackle the small problems first.

High-speed rail is a nice, romantic idea that will not work worth a shit with the present railroad structure. You have to get people to the train in order to get them on the train.

In case no one has noticed, there already is a train that runs from the Bay Area to San Diego. Amtrak and CalTrans have a few trains a day each way. But if you're in Tahoe or Napa or Santa Rosa, for example, then it's your car or the Shoeleather Express to go catch a train in Sacramento or Oakland or where ever is closest and most convenient.


Work on the small stuff. Re-devlop regional rail. Use it to bring people to the trunkline. Then there will be actual demand for that high-speed line and it will get built. As it stands right now, that high-speed line is an expensive pipe dream.

[CAPHAVOC]

17. I am with you.

This ain't Europe. I like my jeep. It is fun to see the USA in your Chevrolet. Maybe HSR for Cargo? It is cheaper that trucks or planes. But when I get someplace I want my Jeep.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. Not everyone feels the way you do

Some people have a problem with empathizing with people who aren't just like them

You may not be aware that some people are environmentally conscious.

You may not be aware that some people hate to drive.

You may not be aware that you can't build your way out of congestion unless you want to pave the whole planet.

You may not be aware of anything beyond your nose.

[CAPHAVOC]

49. True there is something that smells fishy about these projects.

[xxqqqzme]

70. And I was more cocerned

about the stench coming from some posts. Guess there just isn't enough CO2 in the atmosphere for some people.

[aquart]

31. Of course you do.

Did you get lost on the internet highway?

[NYC_SKP]

56. Can you believe it?

"This ain't Europe"

[truebrit71]

112. Right???

....

[surrealAmerican]

47. Even people like you, who prefer to drive everywhere, ...

... benefit from public transportation; or you would, if there were adequate systems in place.

More transportation options means fewer people will have to drive everywhere, which means less traffic congestion, less pollution, and better air quality. It has at least some potential to alleviate airport overcrowding and delays as well.

[CAPHAVOC]

48. Roger that. The problem is that there is no good public transportation at the end of the line.

Once you get there you are stuck.

[transeo]

97. Huh? Have we been to the same SFO? No transport at the end of the line???

Your argument is so demonstrably false. San Francisco has a fantastic in-city mass transit network between the Muni subway under Market St., the streetcars all over the city and many buses. Not to mention multiple BART stations in the city and all over the region, and Caltrain to get even further. I can't speak for San Diego, but one end of the line has some of the best public transport options in the country. I never drive in SFO unless I want to go well out of the city (wine country, Carmel, Monterey, etc.).

[CAPHAVOC]

100. Tampa-Orlando

[NYC_SKP]

55. Then you're a selfish person who doesn't care about leaving anything for future generations.

That's seriously fucked up, man.

Have you ever even ridden a train or BEEN to Europe to ride one, or to New York for that matter?

Wow, please do some research or something.

Fossil Fuels are deadly and we're way past when we should have weened off of them.

Wow.

[CAPHAVOC]

73. Maybe when you get as old as me it will be that way.

Until then I do not want to eat grass or live in a tree. Although i did live in a real Tree House for a summer when I was about 20. Smog sucks but I don't buy the CO2 idea. The environment around here is getting better since all the new water laws but the damn runoff is still bad. When it rains it pours in to the Bay. I was in NYC once. In the 60's. You would get grimy and could feel it...YUK. Never rode on a train. But around here train travel is not a good option. When you get to Orlando or Tampa you are stuck at the station. It is 40 miles to anywhere and the Downtown area is not much. No good Bus or smaller trains to go where you want. The Bus is not even full on the routes. I do not really care if they build it or not. Would not bother me if they do. I just like my Jeep. I remember one time in the 60's I took the Bus to go to Cocoa Beach. It was so slow I got off in Lakeland and hitchiked. I beat the Bus.

[beac]

94. SO the solution to those problems is just to have everyone drive everywhere

while burning up a finite resource and polluting the planet.

Working to improve our public transportaton is a terrible idea because it's not perfect now?

[CAPHAVOC]

96. What logic did you use to come up with that one?

[beac]

109. I was merely repeating what appeared to be YOUR logic on the issue. n/t

ETA: ANd I hope it was clear I DIDN'T agree with your logic.

[CAPHAVOC]

110. I never said I want people to drive everywhere.

I have no Beef with Public Transportation. I just rather drive.

[hunter]

72. I hate cars.

Especially my own.

They continue to live just to spite me.

100,000 miles, 200,000 miles, 300,000 miles...

Every second I've ever spent in a car has been time wasted, a segment of my life thrown into the gutter and pissed upon.

In a perfect world there are no cars.

[CAPHAVOC]

74. Cars are easy to hate.

Every time mine passes a repair shop it pulls in and pops its hood. I hate the keys too. They keep escaping. Amazing how well they can hide.

[Mopar151]

104. Every tool has a use.

Hey, I'm a car guy - BUT WE ALL NEED OPTIONS. Don't be hatin' on my ride - be hatin' on a world that made me spend 3 hours a day in it, commuting.

Mrs Mopar and I are both large people, and I would ADORE the opprutunity to ride a human-size seat from NH to Florida, especially if it did'nt involve any airports or commuter airlines. High-speed rail down the core of the Sprawl would be sweet! Even better if I can get mass transit to the Tampa 'burbs, or a cheap rental to get around Speedweeks or Siebering. A 30 hour ride down the Seaboard ain't my idea of fun -south Jersy would be a highlight.

[hunter]

105. My wife and I are lucky...

... we both used to be Los Angeles commuters, and vowed we'd never do that again. Stop-and-go traffic an hour or two every workday is no fun. Those were some wasted hours in my life. I could calculate how many hours, but I'd really rather not...

We moved away from Los Angeles in 1988 and have managed to avoid long commutes ever since. I can work at home and we can see my wife's workplace from our house, it's about a mile as the crow flies, a little more walking, but about two driving.

Yep, I'm hatin' that so many people are forced by circumstance to be commuters because so many jobs are not where the housing is. People are forced to spend a significant fraction of their income on cars because they can't afford to live where they work or shop.

And I must secretly harbor some fondness for cars because our live so long. It's a love/hate thing; twisted. I'm a pretty good mechanic and I've got tools. It always irks me when I don't have either the time or some expensive tool I need to fix something myself. I've also got no good place to do heavy lifting, so I won't be replacing engines or transmissions anytime soon. My brother nearly lost a finger replacing a transmission on the cheap; the hand surgeons fixed it up so it almost looks normal, but it's not really a functional finger anymore.

Cars ought to be something nice for people who enjoy them, and not something that drags people further down into poverty when they are having trouble paying the bills.

A world of uncrowded highways like the old Route 66 would be very nice. People who were in a hurry could fly or take the train. But it would have to be a different sort of plane than the sardine cans of today. One of the things I hate most about flying now is I don't fit in the seats. After a long flight I can't walk away without my knees and hips screaming bloody murder.

Route 66 between Oatman and Kingman:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_66

I also think I'd like to be a crazy motorcycle riding grandpa someday. Return to my reckless youth, but without the tight jeans...

[aquart]

32. Yes, how unpatriotic to want America to be a world leader.

The once great state of California now losing population because it has become so useless to its citizens.

[dhill926]

77. back where ya came from.......

mr. toad........

[gopiscrap]

15. fucking republicans

this would be the best thing for these places...light rail and urban to urban center rail is what makes Portland and other cities like it so easy to get around, save energy and improve the liveability of those places.

[nobodyspecial]

18. The $270 billion bill also eliminates bicycle and pedestrian programs

Yes, because people clearly don't need safe spaces to get exercise. Let's just get fatter and fatter.

[Leopolds Ghost]

19. Does anyone understand that this will be the death of urban transit funding in the US?

I guess people are so distracted by other problems that something like this might drop like a stone.

Of course, most people in the US don't care about transit, high speed rail and pedestrian funding in the first place.

Witness the fact that the supposedly ultra-Democratic neighborhoods surrounding DC refuse to provide a dedicated funding source for Metro and there is a general consensus among the Washington Post and local politicians AND RESIDENTS to defund and strangle the country's 2nd most successful transit system.

Go ahead. Try and find a group of more than ten DC-area residents who want to organize in support of Metro. The only transit coalition in the nation's capital is opposed to Metro expansion.

[cheapdate]

20. House Republicans determined to prove how solidly they're against

anything that seems the least bit forward looking.

[cbrer]

21. I smell a deal coming.

You give me my bullet train, I give you your pipeline.

[lunasun]

24. Primative Buttholes more stopping progress

[madrchsod]

26. ray lahood is a republican

ray lahood is also a big fan of bicycle trails. he`s also in favor of high speed rail. ray lahood is one of caterpillar`s best friends.

the club for growth are fools.

[sofa king]

29. What if we made one that went backwards at 300 mph?

They'd be all about that shit, wouldn't they?

[aquart]

30. Why do Republicans hate America?

Why are they so intent on destroying our infrastructure and ensuring that we are non-competitive in the modern world?

[saras]

33. Let's get real. Public transit means that you have to ride with colored people.

"Minorities" if you like, although the words they use in private are infamously unusable on DU

[greymattermom]

42. not necessarily

They could have a high end first class car on some trains, with high end service. At least the folks in the car with you would be rich, if not white.

[lostnote12]

35. the Dems should have taken a clue from

......Eisenhower.....once the interstate HWY bill was first rejected he reasserted it with the word "defense" in the title.....voila, the rest is history...

[BlueMTexpat]

40. One can use the phrase "Republicans prohibit ..."

and follow it with "anything that might possibly benefit anyone other than the top 1%."

And one would unfortunately always be correct.

What is so short-sighted about their prohibitions and posturing is that they have never understood that the US as a nation is only as strong as our most vulnerable citizens. It is therefore in our interest to ensure that the most vulnerable are not left high and dry. It is also in our interest to remember that any one of us could become vulnerable at any time, despite our own best efforts.

To be a Republican in today's GOP (not always the case in the past), one must be either an idiot or a sociopath.

[truthisfreedom]

41. They have no idea what's going on. They'll keep stepping on their collective tails until it's

simply too late.

This election cycle is actually fun! They're going to lose because they believe the baggers!

[Vinca]

50. Maybe if the railroad was exclusively oil tankers . . .

[UCmeNdc]

52. This is just another way to keep the unemployment high

The GOP is so intent on keeping the average American from finding good employment. The GOP knows this will create jobs for American workers so the GOP votes it down. These jobs will create other jobs as the money trickles out into the economy.

[Maineman]

53. Who benefits? Oil companies, of course.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

57. This will come back to haunt them

[sulphurdunn]

59. We need people in politics

who have callouses on palms of their hands and not their knuckles.

[glinda]

60. Elimination of everything that doesn't use enough fossil fuels from their friends. Sad.

[jpak]

61. Obstructionist GOP douchebaggery

yup

[slackmaster]

62. That particular project is a huge boondoggle. It needs to be killed.

The Republicans are right on this one.

[allan01]

63. re:Republicans prohibit funding for high speed rail

My first reply here at du.
This reminds me of the consperacy of gm ford chrylser harvy firestone standard oil of ohio. there were front companies that bought ought the private and even public rail transit in america so that they( an unknown person or entity ) can sell more cars and oil gm was prposing interstates as far back as the 1939 worlds fair had a exhibit there that would flip and change . proposed 24 lane wide freways and 14 storry tall things. and of course go through the poorest neighbourhoods that ppl who didnt have a voice . this whole thing smacks of ncl (national car lines)in la it was metropolitian transit, then rtd rapid transit district. There was a trial and a fine of $1.00 imposed. the resultant was in the 1970s so called oil embargo, was one issue . in the eu france is extending its high speed lines and trollies.. and those peopel keep pining about the good old days which never existed

[Turbineguy]

64. They are just planning for a future

of travel by horse-drawn stagecoaches. Only for the rich of course.

[hedgehog]

71. More for us here in New York!

[lsewpershad]

75. Can

Gov Brown veto?

[dpbrown]

76. Wouldn't want a competitive country now, would we?

Republicans - pushing America back to the 19th Century.

[The Wizard]

78. Luddites

What next, quill pens?

[sarcasmo]

79. How many jobs would have been created by this funding?

[GetRidOfThem]

82. This thread is interesting, and I will explain myself a bit in my opinions....

A lot of posters either don't like cars or don't like trains. A lot of posters have not been to Europe or traveled by rail extensively.

I am a transport economist. I also am from Germany. So I know a rail system when it functions. I also love cars - I have started wrenching as a teen, and currently keep a 25 year Mercedes alive in my garage with my own tools, as well as a troublesome more recent car.

Between my wife and I, we put 5,000 miles on our two cars combined. We travel to work by rail, using our city's subway. We live in town, so we walk a lot too.

Our final job is to move away from the internal combustion engine, and put our transportation needs on a grid that centralizes the production of power in a way that as cleaner energy is being introduced, it is being put into our power production areas. I.e. lots of little engines are inefficient, an electrically driven system on the power grid will eventually lead to green power as electricity provided by power plants moves away from coal to renewable sources. Electric cars also fit the bill, but rail is much closer to real electric transportation.

This is why rail is so so important. I think rail is essential for CO2 reduction. So I favor a serious (not flakey) commitment to rail.

I also know I am dreamer. This country is politically so FuUp, that if the cure for cancer where found funds for the treatment would immediately be blocked by leading pharmaceuticals. (OK, I am not that paranoid, just making a joke...)

[greymattermom]

90. not paranoid

Look into the politics of big Pharma someday. Cancer immunotherapy is promising, but hard to get funding for it because it's not Pharma.

[slackmaster]

91. The issue is not rail or public transportation in general. Please read about this project...

Specifically what the California Legislative Analyst has said about it.

[cppuddy]

88. the senate will never pass

This bill never pass the senate, and if it ever did it would get a presidental veto. Its just another house (temper tantrum) bill. Just like all house repub.; not worth the paper it is printed on. Just another bill that will loose them control of the house.

[tooeyeten]

92. Club for Growth

they don't want all those poor and working class people roaming their neighborhoods.

[Snake Alchemist]

95. High speed rail is a boondoggle without effective local transportation.

Until cities in the US have functioning local rail systems high speed rail has little use.

[Mopar151]

108. If High Speed Rail is built

The shuttle buses will be running, you can count on it. Followed by rental cars (electrics would be great in lots of places) and bikes, trams, trolleys, light rail and llama trekking.

[awoke_in_2003]

101. we are such a backwards country. nt

[and-justice-for-all]

102. Repuke pigs hate America...nt