Ministers hold emergency meeting after fatal attack in London street

[CJCRANE]

Source: Guardian

The home secretary, Theresa May, has called a meeting of the government's emergency committee Cobra in response to a "serious incident" in Woolwich, south London, in which one person was killed.

Officials fear the incident may be linked to terrorism. Cobra only meets for the most serious incidents.

It is believed the person died after suffering injuries from a knife.

Two people – who initial accounts suggest may have been involved in the incident – have been taken to hospital after it is believed they were shot by armed police close to the Woolwich military barracks.


Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/22/police-respond-serious-incident-woolwich

[Bosonic]

1. Woolwich: 'Soldier Dead After Terror Attack'

Two men are reportedly heard chanting "Allahu akbar" after an attack that left a man believed to be a serving soldier dead.

A man reported to be a serving soldier is dead and two people have been shot in Woolwich, south east London, after what Sky sources understand is being treated as a terrorist attack.

Downing Street has called a meeting of the Government's Cobra emergency committee after the incident in John Wilson Street, which David Cameron described as "truly shocking".

Sky sources understand that senior police officers believe the killing was likely to be a politically-motivated Islamist terrorist attack. Dozens of weapons - including a number of knives - and pools of blood could be seen on the ground, where a man wearing a Help for Heroes T-shirt is said to have been attacked by two men.

http://news.sky.com/story/1094380/woolwich-soldier-dead-after-terror-attack

[onehandle]

2. Curse those UK gun laws. The guy could have had a gun.

Then lots more people might have died.

Freedom!

...or something.

[another_liberal]

3. Yeah, "Guns don't kill people."

They do, on the other hand, make it possible to kill a whole lot more people.

[Lasher]

6. The attackers did have a gun.

Despite those UK gun laws.

[dipsydoodle]

8. Not a legal one though.

.

[CJCRANE]

11. It seems like the gun backfired

according to the twitter feed posted on this thread (but I can't be sure, I didn't understand all of the vernacular).

[dipsydoodle]

15. Yes - I noticed mention in Bosonic's post ,after I'd posted,

Last edited Wed May 22, 2013, 04:09 PM - Edit history (1)

which referred to a "rusty revolver" which probably just meant an old style gun. I can understand most of the language in those feeds which seem to be genuine. The use of "breda" implies the writer is Jamaican and also use of "she not even ramping" / not just playing - both are Patois / slang.

[Myrina]

4. So now muggings are considered terra?

Bring on Chancellor Sutler ...

[CJCRANE]

5. FWIW my hunch is these are more "self-radicalized"

jihadis (like the Boston bombers) influenced by youtube videos and social networking memes.

This could become a big story. Let's wait and see.

[dipsydoodle]

12. Muggers don't normally carry half a dozen machetes

not do they ask witnesses to take their pictures on mobile phones and post them online. Whatever the background to this these two did both.

[Nye Bevan]

25. A beheading where the attackers yell "Allah Akbar"

might be just a little more than a simple "mugging", don't you think?

[Myrina]

36. Sorry - when I read it it was 'a stabbing by 2 random attackers' ...

... the story has obviously evolved since then. Pardon me for not being psychic.

[Nye Bevan]

38. Apology accepted (nt)

[Blue_Tires]

47. That by itself still doesn't make the murder political...

We'll have to wait until the attackers and victim are identified, along with any relationship they may have had...

[Bragi]

41. If a pressure cooker is now a WMD, then yeah

We're in a brave new world of fear, doncha know.

[Marrah_G]

50. Muggers?

Seriously? The BBC coverage points to more then a mugging.

[leftynyc]

72. Muggings don't include beheadings

or people telling people they are never going to be safe. What a ridiculous thing to say.

[Bosonic]

7. Eyewitness twitter account

It's timestamped 3 hrs ago, so before the story got onto the newswires, so it's probably not fiction (although it is pretty flowery/slangy prose)

<read from bottom upwards>

These times i was just going to the shop for some fruit and veg and i see all that!

@BOYADEE 3h

Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

‏@BOYADEE 3h

The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

‏@BOYADEE 3h

Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

@BOYADEE 3h

Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it... They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting...

‏@BOYADEE 3h

People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we've had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a recolver

@BOYADEE 3h

The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

@BOYADEE 3h

Mate ive seen alot of shit im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie shit

@BOYADEE 3h

Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

‏@BOYADEE 3h

Woolwich #se18 whyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! Fuck!!!! Right next to a primary school!

@BOYADEE 3h

Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

@BOYADEE 3h

https://twitter.com/boyadee

[wingzeroday]

9. video

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-05-22/woolwich-police-incident/

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

13. According to the Irish Examiner, the victim was beheaded

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/man-beheaded-in-london-street-attack-595220.html

[riverwalker]

14. iTV photo

this is the attacker with a big meat cleaver

https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/337259870686437376/photo/1

:large

[jessie04]

19. A Big BLOODY meat cleaver.

Nt

[riverwalker]

16. horrific

http://news.sky.com/story/1094437/woolwich-attackers-filmed-each-other

[Skeeter Barnes]

17. I wish the victim had been allowed to carry a gun to defend himself with.

[dipsydoodle]

46. Wish away.

Last edited Wed May 22, 2013, 05:57 PM - Edit history (1)

This is the UK : not the USA. Aside from that they ran him over with a car - ever tried stopping a car you didn't see coming with a bullet ?.

[Skeeter Barnes]

52. Murder in gun free utopia.

Eyewitness reports I've watched online indicate he wasn't dead from the car impact.

They killed him after that with knives so despite being injured, he might have been able to defend himself with a gun.

Unfortunately, he didn't have that option. I know you find that comforting. I don't.

[lunatica]

77. If gun ownership were legal in the UK he would have been shot, not run over

You're argument has so many holes you'd think it was shot with a shot gun.

[Nye Bevan]

18. Fuck Jihad (nt)

[jessie04]

20. Fuck Jihad ??

Why do you think Islam has anything to do with this ?

[Nye Bevan]

21. .

Senior Whitehall sources said the two attackers asked passers-by to film them, and they shouted "Allahu Akbar" (Allah is great).

http://news.sky.com/story/1094437/woolwich-attackers-filmed-each-other

[jessie04]

27. Well, good point.

I try not to judge anyone's culture or religion.

I remember 7/7 where the media jumped to conclusions.

[geek tragedy]

22. Ya, nothing to do with Islam at all

Brandishing a cleaver and a knife, and with the body of the victim lying yards away, the man said: "We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying every day. This British soldier is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

These guys' families and friends are in for a rough time.

[cali]

58. Fuck U.S. War Mongering

this didn't happen in a vacuum.

[JointSoliloquy]

60. That giant sucking sound

That giant sucking sound was the vacuum created when this poor victims head was separated from his body while his Jihadist buddy iPhoned the ritual. The U.S. war situation is no diversion for the sickness of cold blooded murder in the name of Allah by these savages. These two sickos have only their own cruelty to blame for this senseless act. Those that follow in their revenge will be no better.

[cali]

63. context is important.

this was a brutal horrific murder done by cretinous fuckwads. However, it happened in a specific context. And anyone who doesn't grasp that is just a tad slow.

Maybe if the U.S. "war situation" (how sweetly euphemistic) recklessly and arrogantly making war and bombing the shit out of people whenever we felt like it- not to mention a decades long history of offing other country's leaders- there wouldn't be such events.

[Nye Bevan]

62. Yeah, I guess you're right.

Beheading someone with a meat cleaver in the street is perfectly understandable, and even excusable, given current US policies. At worst this should be considered manslaughter on the grounds of extreme provocation, and community service would be an appropriate sentence.

[geek tragedy]

71. And the "America is Always to Blame" chorus chimes in.

Because the Brits would have no problems with Islamic radicals or the legacy of colonialism without dronez.

[leftynyc]

73. I simply don't understand

how people can excuse this by blaming U.S. foreign policy (esp when it happens in Great Britain). And using the excuse of colonialism is even worse. It would be like Jews all over the world killing Germans or Poles because of the holocaust decades later. Should we just step aside and let a massacre occur to "even things up"?

[cali]

76. no, I'm not blaming America. I place the blame squarely on the two murderous fucks

and they may well have found another excuse to commit this or a similar horrible act.

I am keeping context in mind.

I understand that for you- thinking in complexities and beyond the linear is not an option.

[geek tragedy]

81. "they may well have found another excuse to commit this

or a similar horrible act"

Why the reference to US foreign policy then? Neither party was American, and the United States wasn't referenced.

The world does not revolve around us.

[Poll_Blind]

23. What. Tha. FUCK?!?!?

PB

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. What I don't understand is why this needs an emergency meeting of politicians

They have the 2 suspects under guard, in hospitals. They need quite a few police to interview witnesses, search the suspects' homes, collect forensic evidence - but they're saying they're calling in police from 3 forces over 50 miles away.

It's not as if anything these people did takes any planning or help. Machetes and cleavers are not hard to get hold of, and apparently they had a dodgy gun which didn't work (a replica, inexpertly converted?)

[Nye Bevan]

26. When the evidence strongly suggests Islamic terrorism,

probably worth considering the possibility that this is part of a larger overall attack.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Unless the killers had already said that, how could you tell?

as I said, these 2 people wouldn't need any help at all to do this. It's a murder with sharp implements. The police can consider the possibility, but the politicians can do fuck all to help determine that.

[Nye Bevan]

37. Think of it from the politicians' point of view.

Say the Home Secretary, for example, went to a cocktail party instead of meeting to discuss the situation, following an "Allah Akbar" beheading. Then imagine that while she is at the cocktail party another Islamic terrorist explodes a bomb in the Underground with multiple deaths. And it turns out that the two incidents had some connection. Rightly or wrongly, she would be subjected to a lot of criticism. Having a meeting following the attack is one way to cover their asses.

[wingzeroday]

28. perhaps

They are preparing for any civil disturbances that may arise.

[geek tragedy]

29. Given the UKIP's rise, I imagine there might be concern

of anti-immigrant violence as a reaction.

Or of this kind of thing as part of a stochastic wave, fueled by social media etc.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. Good call - the far right 'English Defence League' is talking about that

Far right group English Defence League threatens 'feet on the street' in Woolwich tonight

EDL leader Tommy Robinson has called for "feet on the streets" after the death of a serving soldier in Woolwich this afternoon.

One of the two men claiming to be responsible for beheading the soldier "We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you" just seconds after killing him.

Members of the Far Right EDL have taken to the organisation's Facebook page to try and coordinate a demonstration.

However, despite the page having more than 25,000 'likes', it seems foot soldiers for the group are not forthcoming.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/401807/Far-right-group-English-Defence-League-threatens-feet-on-the-street-in-Woolwich-tonight

I never thought in terms of "shows of strength".

[dipsydoodle]

48. Opportunism at its worst.

Whether or not they really did shout out any ref. to Allah is matter of conjecture. Since you mentioned the FB link I looked and there doesn't even seem to be any enthusiasm from Millwall's lot.

I put it down to a failed attempt at another 15 minutes fame.

[leftynyc]

74. No, not conjecture

From post #22

Brandishing a cleaver and a knife, and with the body of the victim lying yards away, the man said: "We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying every day. This British soldier is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

And weren't they sweet in letting everyone video their ravings...certainly makes the case against them easier.

[dipsydoodle]

79. Its now clear

that at least one of the two was a fundamentlist of Nigerian background and so yes he / they may well have said that.

There actions indicate it was publicity they were seeking.

[leftynyc]

80. Aren't all terrrorists looking for

publicity? Isn't that kind of the point?

[T_i_B]

78. There is a very real problem here....

...that groups such as the English Defence League will use this event to start all sorts of racial / religious violence.

The EDL were kicking off in Woolwich last night in reaction to this.

[muriel_volestrangler]

82. And they're also lying about 'Muslim celebrations' to stir up more trouble

The latest rumour, following the Woolwich attack, is that Muslims in Oldham are out on the streets and ‘celebrating’ the Woolwich attack.

The claim is being spread by the official EDL account and EDL activists, has kicked off on Twitter and Facebook.
...
But Greater Manchester Police confirmed no such thing.

In fact they denied any such ‘celebrations’ were taking place.

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/05/23/did-muslims-in-oldham-celebrate-the-woolwich-attack-no/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+liberalconspiracy+%28Liberal+Conspiracy%29

(Records of the tweets at the link)

[Bragi]

42. Answer: Pols want to ramp up fear, score points /nt

[riverwalker]

30. weirdest video ever

what's with the two women at the end? I think it took great courage for them to tend to the victim, but the killers are still running around with bloody knives.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. Strange that he says 'in our lands', in an obvious London accent

Even stranger is the guy filming him - I'd never take the risk of standing that close to a man with a knife and cleaver (why do they call it a 'machete'? It plainly isn't) he's just used to kill, just to film them. I'd hope I'd have the courage to see if I could save the victim, like the women, because that would have a purpose. I've no idea if I would, though.

[dipsydoodle]

40. There were other blades too

I think that was just one he happened to be carrying.

[muriel_volestrangler]

51. Yeah, but the voice over says "this man, carrying a knife and machete, says ..."

They are calling that a 'machete'.

[Blue_Tires]

45. I've seen a LOT of that sadly in the modern times

Almost everyone's first reflex when witnessing horrific/dangerous/etc. situations is to whip out the smartphone...

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

39. I am stunned that none of the passers by attempted to intervene, or subdue the suspect

Those knives would have been no match for my French court sword.

[dipsydoodle]

43. Oh yes

Try carrying that in the streets of London. Max penalty is 4 years in prison and even if used in self defense wouldn't remove the penalty which is for "carrying".

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

44. The last time I was in London every gentleman carried a sword. Drawing one frivolously was a crime.

The laws have changed a lot.

[JI7]

59. this guy doesn't give a shit about innocent people dying

and he is speaking in a british accent ? where the fuck does he claim to be from if not there ?

[jessie04]

31. Seems like this is just an isolated event...

by 2 idiots.

[KareBear]

53. The same thing JUST happened in Stockholm 3 days ago

A Muslim man attacked the police with a machete, only he was shot before he could kill anyone.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22622909

It's sparked three days of riots among young Muslims in the area.

What are the odds of two machete attacks within 3 days of each other in Europe being an isolated event?

[GCP]

70. Good catch

I hadn't heard of that incident. No doubt it was brought up at the COBRA meeting.

[hrmjustin]

54. We don't know that yet.

[warrprayer]

35. What a messed up world

[Pragdem]

49. Vicious cretins poisoned by more religious myths.

Today's world is simply not compatible with radicals of any political or religious stripe.

We need to restrict them in every way.

[freshwest]

55. It appears they have been shot and probably taken to the hospital:

Last edited Wed May 22, 2013, 08:11 PM - Edit history (1)

BTW, what does the word or the acronym COBRA stand for?

[dipsydoodle]

56. Cabinet Office Briefing Room A

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_Office_Briefing_Room

[freshwest]

57. What a mild name for something so classified:

From the link, says the picture is the only one released, and obtained by a FOIA. Looks like it's from a James Bond flick.

The link describes it as part of the Gold – silver – bronze command structure with COBR is sometimes known as the Platinum Command.

That's kind of funny and spooky at the same. What's in Briefing Rooms B, C, D, E, F, etc?

Oh, wait, if you told me you'd have to kill me. Never mind. Thanks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. B is smaller

The current Chancellor of the Exchequer, in 2008, when he was in opposition:

COBRA. It sounds impressive. It conjures up images of a West Wing style war room.

Well it’s not. Not many people know, but COBRA stands for Cabinet Office Briefing Room A.

It’s just a room. I’ve been in it many times. It’s a bit bigger than Cabinet Office Briefing Room B.

http://www.conservatives.com/News/Speeches/2008/01/George_Osborne_Brown_has_failed_to_prepare_Britain_for_tough_times.aspx

[freshwest]

65. Why is it classified, though?

[muriel_volestrangler]

66. I'm not sure in what way it is 'classified'

As well as issuing the photo for a FOIA request, the Wikipedia entry also points to this:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/facts/cobr.aspx

[freshwest]

67. Oh, I saw that part. Guess the classified part was an error by Wikipedia, if it's not special.

If all sounds routine. I guess the police will meet with someone who can determine if the two killers had friends overseas or locally. Stochastic terrorism is what some would call it. Seeing theHelp the Heroes' T-shirt is what set these guys off, maybe.

Authorities may be meeting in COBRA is to defuse the English Defense League (?) or the UKIP if this triggers riots/counter riots. I don't know if they are related to each other, though.

I know someone whose son is a cop in London. She moved from where she had been living since she felt unsafe. She seems to be getting religious, withdrawing from everything. But then she's getting older, too.

Lot of stuff going on in London and always is/has been.

[leftyladyfrommo]

61. Machetes should be banned.

They are awful weapons. Worse than guns.

In Africa where people were just hacked to death by machetes? Awful stuff. I would rather get gunned down than hacked to death.

Just sayin.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

69. All sharp object are banned in England.

Even pointy sticks.

[marshall]

68. London is paying a heavy price

I hope they can put a stop to this.

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. One attacker linked with banned Islamist group; one may have tried to go to Somalia

(it's not clear if it's the same one or not).

10.06am BST

The Guardian understands that one of the two suspects is known to have expressed an interest in travelling to Somalia to support the al-Qaida affiliate Al-Shabaab, but whether he was actually arrested and if so when is unclear.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/23/woolwich-latest-developments-live#block-519ddbf7e4b0371c681f9fcc

Woolwich attacker named 'Mujahid' was known to banned Islamist organisation Al Muhajiroun

Mr Choudary said Mujahid, who he said had converted to Islam in 2003 and was a British-born Nigerian, had stopped attending meetings of Al Muhajiroun and its successor organisations two years ago. The former solicitor said he had also known "Mujahid" as Michael.

He told The Independent: “I knew him as Mujahid. He attended our meetings and my lectures. I wouldn’t describe him as a member (of Al Muhajiroun). There were lots of people who came to our activities who weren’t necessarily members.

“He was a pleasant, quiet guy. He reverted to Islam in about 2003. He was just a completely normal guy. He was interested in Islam, in memorising the Koran. He disappeared about two years ago. I don’t know what influences he has been under since then.”

Founded in 1983 by Islamist Omar Bakri Muhammad, Al Muhajiroun became notorious for attempting to justify the 9/11 attacks and fomenting Islamist rhetoric in Britain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-woolwich-attacker-named-mujahid-was-known-to-banned-islamist-organisation-al-muhajiroun-8628583.html