NY high court eyes who can tap Starbucks' tip jars

[marble falls]

Source: Houston Chronicle

By MICHAEL VIRTANEN, Associated Press | May 28, 2013 | Updated: May 28, 2013 4:08pm

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Starbucks is defending its tip-sharing policy with its attorney telling New York's top court that baristas and shift supervisors divide up the cash jar weekly because they essentially provide the same customer service.

Attorney Rex Heinke (HYN'-kee) says assistant store managers are excluded because they have an essentially different role and "real power" over the others.

He says Tuesday that the employer's role is to come up with "a reasonable, fair system" and the company does have authority to exclude from tip-sharing even those employees deemed eligible under state law.

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Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/NY-high-court-eyes-who-can-tap-Starbucks-tip-jars-4552087.php

[NYC_SKP]

1. Crazy Couple that owns Amy's Baking Company in Arizona KEEPS all the tips.

Fuckers.

Saw it on Kitchen Nighmares.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/05/kitchen-nightmares-couple-changes-tip-policy-paying-less/

http://ifyoucantaffordtotip.com/kitchen-nightmares-owner-steals-tips-from-servers/

[NaturalHigh]

3. I read about that too.

A group of loud protesters carrying signs in front of that place would not hurt my feelings.

[happyslug]

15. But that couple paid more then the Minimun wage, i.e NO tip allowance

servers at the Scottsdale, Ariz. restaurant were paid between $8 and $14 an hour

Tip allowance permits employer to pay servers as low as $2.13 per hour. Technically if a server's tips and the "Tip Allowance" are below minimum wage, the employer is suppose to make up the difference, but you try get the employer to pay AND keep your job. Remember the Employer also has to WITHHOLD taxes from the Employee, including taxes on the tips.

Sorry, I would pay any servers I employ a set wage and tell them all tips below to the company. That way, the employee knows how much they will get, I do not have to track their tips for Income Tax withholding and any tips are listed as "Money Received".

You may not like it, but I have had plenty of servers come into my office and would prefer that the employer gets all tips, if they received $7.15 per hour instead of $2.13 per hour.

[AtheistCrusader]

23. If that's the case then the customer should know they aren't tipping the workers.

The whole tip thing is to incentivize good service. If that isn't how the employee's compensation is tied to the transaction, then the customer should know the tip is going to the employer, not the employee.

[csziggy]

32. If they paid that well, why do they have such a high turn over

Over 100 employees in a year, if I remember correctly. During a bad time to find a job, a company that actually paid $8 to $14 an hour as they claimed would have people waiting in line to take those jobs.

Of course, given the insanity of the bosses at Amy's Baking Company there would not be enough money in the world for me to walk into the place much less work there.

[SkyDaddy7]

34. Would you post a huge sign alerting your customers...

That any tips they give go straight to the owner & those serving get nothing? Or would you allow customers to tip thinking the server would get them but in reality you are taking it for yourself?

[bitchkitty]

35. I used to make over $100 a shift at TGI Friday's.

If you're keeping your employees' tips, you are stealing from them. And if you have servers who would prefer to be paid $7.15 an hour rather than the tips they would receive, then I venture that they are really, really bad servers.

[doxyluv13]

36. Why you are wrong.

Dear Happyslug, if you take money your customers intended as a gift to their server for yourself (or management) you are defrauding your customers whether or not you are in compliance with wage and hour rules.

Let's do a little thought experiment. If it was fully disclosed that management pocketed tips, would anyone ever leave a tip again? I wouldn't and I'm sure many others wouldn't as well.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

39. Bingo.

Well put.

[Gormy Cuss]

37. Why do the servers prefer that?

Is the business so slack that they don't get much in the way of tips?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

38. This is such bullshit.

I hope you don't run a business. 7.15 is BELOW minimum wage and I have never met a single server who would prefer to make 56 dollars a night (before taxes) over keeping their tips. Even working at shitty chain restaurants I took home at least 100 bucks a night.

They were lying to their customers quit trying to spin it.

[Skeeter Barnes]

2. Anyone that gives work assignments or takes disciplinary action is management and shouldn't

get a share of the tips.

[joeglow3]

4. Even though the majority of their job is to serve the customers, thereby generating tips?

[hack89]

5. Not if they get paid more than the people they supervise. nt

[joeglow3]

6. Why not?

Why not allocate the tips based on a percentage (i.e. a shift supervisor gets 75% credit for every hour work). Sorry, but if a shift supervisor is getting $1 an hour, they would end up making less.


However, THIS is exactly what the 1%'ers want us doing. Fighting over who gets the scraps while our attention is diverted from the real problems.

[hack89]

8. Shift supervisors should get tips. Asst. managers should not.

Assistant managers should be paid significantly more than the other workers such that they do not need tips.

[joeglow3]

25. Okay we are in agreement

However, the position of the court case is that shift supervisors should NOT get them. I disagree with that.

[DonRedwood]

9. In many states the wait staff gets paid very little. Not even minimum wage.

The supervisor is making a salary.

So, a waiter makes $3 and hour plus tips...and his manager makes 40K a year and gets half the tips meant for the $3 an hour worker.

They use the tips as a reason to NOT pay even minimum wage....but then they take it for people who are making a salary that is NOT based on the tips. Totally not right.

That's how I see it, anyways.

[joeglow3]

26. I am talking the shift supervisor

Typically, they are not making much more than the staff and certainly is not salary. However, the staff is saying even they should not get a cut, even though the lion share of their job is doing the exact same thing as the staff.

[happyslug]

16. Higher income for Salesmen is quite common then for their supervisiors

Most salesmen want to be paid on Commission, not salary. That way they get a percentage of any sale. In many industries this results in Salesmen earning much more money then their supervisors.

In many industries the skilled people working on projects often get paid higher then their supervisors, simply because the supervisors do NOT have the skills to do the job of the people they are supervising. The technical fields were well known for this (Today, with the emphasis on finance over technical knowledge, this has reversed in to many industries but it is still NOT uncommon for technical people to be "Supervised" by non-technical people. The Supervisors expertise is to make sure the paperwork is completed, including how long each technical person worked, as oppose to knowing what the technical people were doing).

Such situations hinders promotions (higher pay people do NOT want to take a pay cut) but does encourage people to stay on the job longer. Salesmen of industrial goods are the biggest example today, it is not uncommon for such salesmen and women to earn millions of dollars while their supervisor earns way less.

[Skeeter Barnes]

10. Yes, they are management and don't deserve tips.

If they wanted tips, they could have remained a barista. I wouldn't take a management position that left me so poorly compensated that I needed to steal tip money from the people I was supervising.

[Posteritatis]

18. How fortunate you must be to have the option of turning down a promotion in that field. (nt)

[joeglow3]

27. The vast majority of their job is working in the capacity of a barista

Why should they not get a share of the tips they are directly generating?

I agree the asst. managers should not get any of it.

[Omaha Steve]

7. Letting them in on tips because....

That way the position in question can be paid less without a lot of grief from the person in that position.

[Xithras]

13. Tips are a gratuity offered as thanks for good service.

The tip should be taken by whomever did the serving.

I've had a couple of experiences where I've eaten in restaurants and have been served exclusively by the manager (because they were shorthanded, or busier than expected, or whatever). In every case, I've left them a tip. If the manager is doing the job and is serving the customer directly, and the customer is happy enough with the service to leave a tip for their efforts, then the manager should get those tips. They EARNED them.

There is a difference between a supervisory manager who sits in an office and barks orders, and a working manager who does the same job as the employees and simply has some extra scheduling and supervisory responsibilities. The first has not EARNED any compensation from the customers, and the second has. Starbucks supervisors pretty clearly fall into the second group.

If someone did their job well, and I left them a tip for their efforts, I'd be pretty pissed off if another employee took it simply because the one I left it for had the "wrong" job title.

[Skeeter Barnes]

14. If these managers are underpaid, they need to take it up with their fellow members of mgmt.

instead of looking for a cut of entry level employees tips.

[Xithras]

17. Tips are not offered as base compensation.

Negotiating equitable base compensation is part of the employer/employee relationship, and not the customer/business relationship. If the wait staff is underpaid, they should take it up with their management or legislators. If it's bad and they want to strike, I'll respect the line.

Tips are offered by customers as compensation for the work performed FOR the customer. If an hourly waiter does the work, the waiter gets the tip. If the manager does the work, the manager gets the tip. The amount of money each makes per hour, or the relative power levels of their positions, matters very little. When I leave a tip, I leave it as compensation for the person/people serving me. If a manager (or even an owner, in a small establishment) is actively working tables and is serving me as a customer, and I leave a tip for them, then they should get it. They earned it.

To argue otherwise is petty. Tips aren't about social justice or supporting workplace pay parity. Tips are offered as a measure of compensation, and thanks, for those who serve us. To argue that "person X doesn't deserve compensation because of their title" is simply mean spirited and counterproductive to the formation of good workplace relationships. Remember, we're not talking about corporate fatcats here...most restaurant managers only make a few dollars an hour more than the people they're supervising. If they serve me well, and I want to leave them a tip as thanks for doing so, how does that harm anyone?

[Posteritatis]

20. Since when are employees in that industry even allowed to negotiate wages?

Especially if they're a chain outlet? You work at one of those, your wage is decreed by head office.

Talking about jobs in the service industry as though they're salaried professional opinions is either startlingly naive or startlingly ignorant, I'm not sure which.

[Xithras]

22. Which isn't really relevant to my core point.

"If a manager (or even an owner, in a small establishment) is actively working tables and is serving me as a customer, and I leave a tip for them, then they should get it. They earned it."

An employees base pay from the employer is not part of the customer/server relationship. Tips are left as compensation for the work performed by the server for the customer, not the work the server is doing for the employer. If the server happens to be a manager, and they are performing direct work for the customer, and the customer chooses to leave them a tip as compensation, then they should receive it.

[Skeeter Barnes]

21. They signed on to take action against their fellow workers on behalf of the company.

And they did it knowing that they would still have to perform entry level work and would be underpaid for it. Nobody forced them to do it. They could always ask the regional level supervisors for a raise or go back to being a barista and get tips.

So no, I don't think my position is petty or mean spirited. That would describe management.

You do make excellent points but I don't think we are going to agree on much.

Because of the places I've worked and the way I've been treated on the job, I see management in a different light than you do.

[joeglow3]

28. So I, as the customer, have ZERO right to determine who I want to freely give my money to?

That is bull shit. Guess next time, I will tell whoever is serving me to meet me out front and I will "repay" them the money I owe them. I am tiping the person who served me. If the individual is someone willing to get dirty, bust their ass and keep me happy, they are not a "fat cat." They are a working class person just like me and deserve to keep what I freely decide to give them.

[Skeeter Barnes]

29. Give your money to whoever you want. Nobody stopping you.

[joeglow3]

30. YOU are trying to.

[NeedleCast]

11. I work as a part-time Barista and this doesn't bother me

I don't work at 5-bucks but my store does essentially the same thing. Our shift supervisors are also involved with customer service, making drinks, food preparation - essentially everything the baristas do, plus minor managerial stuff.

[lupulin]

12. I hope they move to multiple tip jars

labeled for the group of workers who will divide it up (managers, baristas, etc). Let the customers decide.

[Posteritatis]

19. I see jars named for the various staff in the places I go to around here

I don't necessarily know who the staff happen to be, but I pick that up if I become a regular someplace.

Voting jars is another thing - a pair with the daily option ("apples or oranges?" sorts of things usually, but I was tickled at "fairy or faerie?" at one last week). I'm not sure how those ones are divided, but there's almost always only two staff on at the places that have them.

[cosmicone]

24. I am against tips.

Just pay the people a good, living wage and not leave them at the mercy of weather/economy/business cycles etc.

I feel sad when I enter a relatively empty restaurant and a lot of the serving staff hoping that my party would be seated in their serving area.

Employees should not share in the business risks of a restaurant. That is the job of senior management and investors.

[Ter]

31. You don't tip at all, or just a little?

What do you do when the check is $50 and the server is good and friendly?

[cosmicone]

33. I generally tip 25% under the current system.

More if the server is exceptionally good.