U.S. concerned that Barak is pushing for Israeli attack on Iran

[TomClash]

U.S. concerned that Barak is pushing for Israeli attack on Iran

The Barack Obama administration believes Netanyahu is still sitting on the fence over a future military strike on Iran.

By Amos Harel

Visits to Jerusalem by senior U.S. officials this week reflect a growing concern in Washington over the possibility that Israel will decide to attack nuclear sites in Iran. The Americans are particularly worried about the hawkish line that Defense Minister Ehud Barak has adopted on the matter. They apparently have the impression, however, that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has yet to come to a final stance on the dispute.

The number of visits that have been made here by senior members of President Barack Obama’s administration in recent months is unusual. A delegation headed by U.S. National Security Adviser Thomas Donilon arrived Saturday evening; and later this week, Israel will host James Clapper, the director of National Intelligence. On separate visits this past fall, the new director of the Central Intelligence Agency, David Petraeus, paid a visit to Israel, as did U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, whose trip here came shortly after a visit to the United States by Barak.

Last month, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, came to Israel, not long after taking office. In another two weeks, Netanyahu will be in Washington to deliver an address before the policy conference of the pro-Israel lobby, AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. The Israeli premier is also expected to meet with Obama in the course of the visit. Even prior to that, next week, Defense Minister Barak will apparently make his own trip to the U.S. capital to meet with senior administration officials.

. . .

In discussions with their Israeli counterparts, senior U.S. administration officials have said the sanctions regime that the Americans have spearheaded is unprecedented in its severity and more time is needed to gauge its impact on the regime in Tehran. Within the Israeli cabinet, there are also ministers who acknowledge that the sanctions exceeded most of the expectations Israel held until a few months ago.

. . .

Washington, like Jerusalem, appears to be under the impression that Barak will play a key role in Netanyahu’s decision-making. According to various assessments, in the constellation of forces within the senior forum of eight capital ministers, Barak represents the hawkish camp, while ministers Moshe Ya’alon, Dan Meridor and Benny Begin are leading the opposition to an assault at this time.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/u-s-concerned-that-barak-is-pushing-for-israeli-attack-on-iran-1.413537

[msongs]

1. Israel can do what it wants and we don't need to join their party nt

[MrBig]

3. Like who? n/t

[Knight Hawk]

6. Google......................

Americans with dual American/Israeli citizenship.......................

[azurnoir]

12. apparently you can not back up your own statement?

which influential" did you have in mind, you can not expect others to second guess you

[atreides1]

13. Really

Then they have to make a choice...they're either American or Israeli...

[R Merm]

19. I did Google it and the sites are all BS, just because they are Jewish doesn't make them dual citiz

Why don't we also see how many on the list are also a member of "The Elders of Zion"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

[MrBig]

33. Funny

This was the first thing that popped into my mind when reading that previous comment as well.

[Behind the Aegis]

41. And where, praytell, did you come by this list?

John Bolton? He doesn't have a dual-citizenship. But the reason I picked him out? He is the only one on the list that isn't Jewish! I have NEVER seen a reliable source stating ANY of the ones you mentioned carry dula citizenship with ANY country, let alone Israel.

[mitchtv]

56. nor I

I think some people may confuse Right of Return with citizenship? i don;t see high offices filled with people with more than US citizenship. Sounds like delusion

[Behind the Aegis]

57. I have been unable to find any Congress member with any type of dual citizenship.

Of course, when you google it, you don't even need to put in "Jew" or "Israel" and those are almost all of the hits! You are also correct about confusing "ROR" with citizenship. They aren't the same thing.

[OKNancy]

63. David Frum is Canadian isn't he.. looks like a bogus list to me.

[MrBig]

49. And all I'm saying

Is that this list is BS. You found these names on conspiracy websites as far as I can see, and with no source, I have nothing else to base it on. The only places I've seen this list of names as dual citizens are on crazy anti-Semetic or conspiracy websites.

[Strelnikov_]

4. Catch 22

At that point does not matter who is elected as petrocollapse will be imminent.

[azurnoir]

7. "Do you have any idea how many very influential Americans have dual Israeli/American citizenship?"

Like to expound on that for us? Just exactly who are these influential people name some of them for us lease, you can back that comment up right?

[earthside]

8. Gruesomely Hilarious

As in "it would be funny if it weren't so tragic" ... $10 a gallon gasoline, a global oil crisis, a worldwide economic depression? Yeah, that will get Pres. Obama re-elected.

Just how superficial can a person be? Pandering to dual Israeli/American citizens by getting involved in potentially World War III for the sake of election politics?

The absolute last thing the world needs is a war in the Middle East. And don't forget, Israel has a stockpile of illegal nuclear weapons -- this war could be atomic.

[JHB]

9. The key word there, which ain't necessarily true, is "when"...

..."when" was also a word used about the Russians pouring through the Fulda Gap.

What about Israel's own nukes? Are people still pretending those don't exist?

[Hugabear]

10. Then let them volunteer to fight Iran

If these people with dual Israeli/American citizenship feel so damned strongly about it, maybe they can go over and do some of the fighting themselves. Otherwise, they would be no better than the right-wing chickenhawks who never met a war they didn't like.

[madokie]

21. +1

[MrBig]

34. This post sounds very conspiratorial

In this case, the "other" are these mysterious people with Israeli/American citizenship who are pushing their secret (or not so secret) agenda of getting the US to fight a war with Israel against Iran for less than noble reasons.

Of course who these dual citizens are remain a mystery. All we know is they are BAD BAD BAD people!!!1!1

[The Stranger]

45. No, it's neither a conspiracy nor a secret. It is right out there in the open for everyone to see.

I looked at some of the names listed, and I don't think these individuals would even care, and they are certainly not keeping anything they say or do a secret. You can subscribe to various think tanks in Washington and read all about what is proposed or even go hear speeches. There is no conspiracy, no secret, no nothing.

[MrBig]

54. Ridiculous!

You make it sound like this random group of "dual citizens" WHO AREN'T EVEN DUAL CITIZENS!!! (sorry for all caps, but its too ridiculous to minimize) have this organized plan to lure the US into a war with Iran all for the benefit of Israel.

I read many think tanks and speeches, etc., and the only time this line of thinking enters my mind is when I read it on an anti-Semetic or crazy conspiracy website.

[The Stranger]

58. Look, I don't know how to break this to you, but there are many people lobbying for the U.S. to

to attack Iran. Whether or not they have dual citizenship is probably not something you could ever find publicly, but they aren't making any secret that they want the U.S. involved, one way or the other, in an attack on Iran.

In fact, most of these statements are public. For fucks' sake, here is Paul Wolfowitz so stating in none other than the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/18/AR2009061803496_pf.html

So stop freaking out.

[MrBig]

59. You aren't getting my point

There's a difference between saying Paul Wolfowitz, a neocon, chickenhawk, war mongering Republican, wants the US to get involved and support an Israeli attack on Iran and saying that a secret group of dual Israeli/US citizens who really only support Israel and see the US as a means of supporting Israel (which is essentially what most of the prior posts were saying) are convoluting to get the US involved in a war with Iran.

The first statement, about Paul Wolfowitz and other neocon war mongerers, some of whom happen to be Jewish and maybe even a couple who might be dual citizens, is truthful and can be stated without using generalizing and prejudicial terminology.

The second statement is a broad brushed, conspiratorial attack that has a looooooong history of anti-Semetic support (whether or not you choose to find it anti-Semetic) and is wholly inappropria

[TheWraith]

61. +1. This is, basically, a new version of the "Jewish conspirators control the government" line...

...which has been an antisemitic stereotype practically forever, but particularly over the last 80 years, both here in the US and in Europe. I'll give some people here the benefit of the doubt, they may not be doing it INTENTIONALLY so much as they're just generally paranoid about everything. But the fact remains that this argument boils down the belief that anyone who's Jewish and involved in politics is engaging in a secret conspiracy to control the US government on behalf of Israel, a claim which is basically pulled straight out of neo-Nazi and white supremacist dogma. I don't think there'd be any tolerance for those saying that any and all black people in government are secretly conspiring to steer the US for the benefit of Africa, or the same statement about Asians; rather, it would be recognized as the troglodyte freeper-think that it is.

[The Stranger]

71. I have to disagree.

Clearly, there are many American Jews, probably some of whom even have the dreaded "dual citizenship," who DO NOT support invading or attacking Iran and are in favor of diplomacy and statecraft.

We shouldn't be prevented from discussing something as important as the nation going to war because some are freaked out by the fact that some people supporting such an invasion have "dual citizenship."

[MrBig]

72. I agree, but

Throwing out accusations and names without any verifiable proof deserves to be called out.

And the truth is, these type of accusations have been the basis of anti-Semitism for a long, long time, which means that, even when there's a legitimate conversation to be had on the subject, many people will be wary and sensitive because of that history.

I would agree with you that it shouldn't prevent a discussion that's worth having, but people should be aware that it's a sensitive topic and one that's toeing a line that's been crossed all too many times.

[TheWraith]

73. There is no fucking list of "dual citizens."

The list of people posted in this thread are, in fact, NOT dual citizens, making the linkage between them and Israel utter horseshit.

[TomClash]

14. But many people have dual citizenship with the US and many other countries

How does that show disloyalty?

[LiberalEsto]

25. I think dual citizenship is wrong

I could have dual citizenship myself, but I refuse to use it.
I don't want to split my loyalty between the U.S. and Estonia.

I was born here, raised here, educated here, worked here and had children here.
The U.S. is my home country. I may not agree with some of the stuff going on here, but my American citizenship is too precious to me to want to renounce it. This doesn't mean I don't care about Estonia - I have relatives there.

In my humble opinion, people should pick one country or another, and go live in the one they care about the most.

[Knight Hawk]

43. Disloyalty?

Who said anything about disloyalty?????????????If Israel gets into a war I do not think it is a stretch to believe that many influetial American Jews will encourage Obama to enter the war on the side of Israel.

[TomClash]

64. How does citizenship affect that?

Evangelicals on the right are much more supportive of war than American Jews are.

[MrBig]

66. Thank You!!!

Man oh man am I glad you wrote that. So many people fail to realize the role that right wing evangelicals play in supporting right wing extremist Israeli policy.

[TomClash]

68. You're welcome

Happy to set the record straight.

[marmar]

15. Do you have any idea how many American (voters) have had it with bullshit wars?

nt

[valerief]

65. About 99% of us. nt

[Iggo]

18. Do YOU?

List them, please.

[Lawlbringer]

20. It's a conspiracy

by Natalie Portman and Joe Lieberman, the new Sheba and Solomon!

[sulphurdunn]

27. By this line of reasoning,

the President will get reelected if he joins the Iranians after the first Israeli missile hits Iran. Also, are you suggesting that influential American Jews are Israeli agent provocateurs who control American elections to further the interests of Israeli foreign policy?

[MrBig]

35. Something tells me

More than just a handful of people who responded to this article, and who post on this website, believe the very ludicrous conspiracy theory you mentioned.

[leveymg]

5. Interesting mixed message in that headline

Can be read either way, which is likely the point.

[Fearless]

29. The spelling of both names are different.

[Drunken Irishman]

11. Well isn't that a tricky headline!

[Lasher]

16. I'll bet Dick Cheney is getting a woodie over this.

All according to plan.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/neocons_gone_wild.php

[mainer]

17. Why is the Jewish vote so powerful in the US?

They make up only 2.1% of the US population.

In contrast, Asian Americans make up 4-5% of the US population. And based on recent income figures, they probably have as much financial clout as the Jewish American population. Yet no one ever caters to the Asian American vote.

Just something I've been wondering lately.

[nanabugg]

22. The fear of being labeled an "anti-Semite" and being politically mauled keeps

many from doing the right thing. And the right thing is not always to support Israel.

[MrBig]

37. Posts like this help purport stereotypes

First, your post insinuates that a politician has the choice of either "being labeled an anti-Semite and/or being politically mauled" or "doing the right thing." In other words, if you do the right thing, you will be labeled an anti-Semite. If you don't do the right thing, you will not be labeled an anti-Semite.

You're discussing an issue that has long been used to attack Jews, verbally, but more often physically, and to discriminate and support discrimination against them.

That's probably why the term anti-Semite gets used when discussing the power of the Jews to control global events and dictate global politics. It's eerily similar to The Protocols.

[Behind the Aegis]

44. Just so you know....

...some believe The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is a conspiracy. Not that the actual pamphlet is a conspiracy against Jews, but rather that Jews have made everyone think it is an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, but is really the truth.

[mainer]

46. My post had nothing to do about anti-semitism

just about the relative influence that one ethnic group has, despite its small numbers. And why it is that other ethnic groups haven't learned to exert that same influence? African Americans still have to deal with "Willie Horton" type ads. Hispanic Americans still have to deal with racist ads and jokes about Taco Bell. They are far bigger voting blocs, yet they don't exert the same influence over American politics. What can they do to find a bigger voice?

[Behind the Aegis]

47. And yet, you are making it sound as if they control the US government.

So, because there aren't anti-Semitic ads (and there have been), this some how indicative of "relative influence?" The two don't have anything to do with each other.

[MrBig]

50. And Jews still have to deal with the false notion they control everything

The idea that Jews are all powerful and control everything (Wall Street, the media, the US government, other governments, whether there is war or peace, etc. etc. etc.) is the basis for much discrimination.

Some argue that Jews should be proud of this stereotype, which is ridiculous.

[MrBig]

52. So I've seen...

Whatever people can manipulate to support their viewpoint, they will do so.

BTW, I just want to say I've enjoyed read your posts on DU for awhile now. Keep up the good work!

[Behind the Aegis]

53. Thanks, but you shouldn't have said that outloud.

[MrBig]

55. Sorry...

Remind me and I'll bring it up again at the next Top Secret Jewish Underground Meeting to Control the World Bwahaha event.

[MrBig]

36. The Jewish vote and the Pro-Israel vote are two different things

While many Jews are Pro-Israel (which means different things to different people), the Pro-Israel lobby is made up of many more non-Jews because, like you state, Jews simply are not that numerous.

Comments such as this are what helps purport stereotypes and discriminatory beliefs against Jews. You're making a false assumption that Jewish-Americans are catered to based on a single issue that is not exclusive to Jewish-Americans. While you may believe that Jewish-Americans are catered to, as you say, just be aware that this stereotype has been the basis of countless violent acts against Jews for many, many, many years.

[mainer]

42. I'm just contrasting the fact that politicians feel free to run racist anti-Asian American ads

like Hoekstra's. But no one would DARE run an anti-Semitic political ad.

There's a difference there. Explain it.

[MrBig]

51. I would disagree

I think politicians can and do say and promote anti-Semitic arguments fairly regularly. The problem is often they are viewed as "truthful" statements so they're not viewed as anti-Semetic.

For example, the argument that Jews control everything (money, media, politics) is a stereotype dating back forever. It's just always modernized to fit the current events of a given time period. From Helen Thomas to Pat Buchanan to whomever on the left and the right, statements making these ridiculous claims are given weight and the notion of truth, thus making it not seem discriminatory when, in fact, it is.

[cyberpj]

23. "Barack" ?? Not even using Obama? Let alone PRESIDENT OBAMA. Now it's down to "Barack" ? nt

[Purveyor]

24. The 'Barak' being referred to in the headline is israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak. eom

[Fortran]

30. Ehud Barak has been in the public spotlight for many years, he is 20 years older than the Prez.

[MrBig]

38. Awkwarrrd... n/t

[DeadEyeDyck]

40. Ha, ha, ha, ha

"Barack" ?? Not even using Obama? Let alone PRESIDENT OBAMA. Now it's down to "Barack" ?
I hope this is a joke post!

[Tx4obama]

60. Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak, NOT President Obama n/t

[octothorpe]

69. Not only that, but they are leaving letters out too!!!!!!!!!

[Kablooie]

26. Oh boy. Fox News will have fun confusing these names.

[Behind the Aegis]

32. Doesn't seem to be just Fox news.

[Gringostan]

28. Who is the US in this story? N.T.

[Dreamer Tatum]

31. Humbly suggest that if one doesn't know Ehud Barak is, then STFU and do some reading.

Would save several eggs and several faces. Ehud BARAK.

Distinct from BARACK.

[Comrade Grumpy]

48. Maybe Israel should be concerned that Barak is pushing for an attack on Iran.

They are unlikely to successfully pull it off, and then what?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/20/world/middleeast/iran-raid-seen-as-complex-task-for-israeli-military.html?hp

Iran Raid Seen as a Huge Task for Israeli Jets

Hasan Sarbakhshian/Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Should Israel decide to launch a strike on Iran, its pilots would have to fly more than 1,000 miles across unfriendly airspace, refuel in the air en route, fight off Iran’s air defenses, attack multiple underground sites simultaneously — and use at least 100 planes.

That is the assessment of American defense officials and military analysts close to the Pentagon, who say that an Israeli attack meant to set back Iran’s nuclear program would be a huge and highly complex operation. They describe it as far different from Israel’s “surgical” strikes on a nuclear reactor in Syria in 2007 and Iraq’s Osirak reactor in 1981.

“All the pundits who talk about ‘Oh, yeah, bomb Iran,’ it ain’t going to be that easy,” said Lt. Gen. David A. Deptula, who retired last year as the Air Force’s top intelligence official and who planned the American air campaigns in 2001 in Afghanistan and in the 1991 Gulf War.

<snip>

The possible outlines of an Israeli attack have become a source of debate in Washington, where some analysts question whether Israel even has the military capacity to carry it off. One fear is that the United States would be sucked into finishing the job — a task that even with America’s far larger arsenal of aircraft and munitions could still take many weeks, defense analysts said. Another fear is of Iranian retaliation.

[Tx4obama]

62. * * * * * Israeli Defense Minister Ehud BARAK, NOT President Obama * * * * *

for those that haven't read the full OP

[cyberpj]

67. Forgetting to use the sarcasm smilie can really screw up a joke.

Wish I had come back to DU sooner to clear it up but alas, work is always interrupting my DU time!

I was trying to make a joke regarding comments on DU lately about how right wing media tend to use Obama, even Mr. Obama, instead of the proper and respectful President Obama.

Thanks for the wink and the notable subject line but what I really need is to keep my smart remarks to myself or else remember to use the proper smilie when making a rather bad joke.

[octothorpe]

70. heh.... I think the problem is that there been more than a few times where

someone here has a made a knee-jerk comment without fully reading or comprehending was actually being said in an article.