Lawsuit over controversial 2010 Cinco de Mayo high school incident lives on

[alp227]

Source: San Jose Mercury News

MORGAN HILL -- As they pick at a few egg rolls at their favorite Chinese restaurant on the outskirts of town here, Kendall and Joy Jones and Dianna Dariano recall Cinco de Mayo in 2010 -- and it still makes them seethe red, white and blue.

Capturing the nation's attention and sparking a patriotic backlash, their sons were ordered by Live Oak High School administrators to turn their American flag-adorned shirts inside out to avoid any conflict with Mexican-American students celebrating Cinco de Mayo.

In many ways, everyone has moved on. The boys have gone off to college. The principal and assistant principal involved have left Live Oak. The Fox News trucks are long gone from the school's parking lot.

But the controversy simmers, reaching a crucial stage Thursday, when a federal appeals court considers the families' free speech lawsuit over the incident. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals will hear arguments in the parents' appeal of a ruling last year dismissing their case.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_24319739/free-speech-and-american-flag-lawsuit-over-controversial

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Full title that couldn't fit: Free speech and the American flag: lawsuit over controversial 2010 Cinco de Mayo high school incident lives on

My take:

I wonder how principled the boys' parents are because I think they would've sued for different reason had the school let the kids wear the shirts and then the kids got beat up for wearing the shirts. And this flag worship is fucking annoying, isn't it? Says one parent, "Do not say to anyone in the United States you can't wear an American flag. That's an absolute outrage." How narrow minded. Just as narrow minded as those Muslims who rioted over Muhammad cartoons.

PZ Myers had a great commentary about these stupid boys:

I concede that it was wrong of the school to silence their valiant message of silent protest. The sad thing now, though, is that the boys and their families are suddenly silencing themselves, realizing that their message might have been a little, errm, misplaced, and when exposed to the bright light of day, looks an awful lot like racism. Instead of hiding behind weak excuses, they ought to be proudly declaring the object of their protest: the existence of brown-skinned students of Mexican descent, and the celebration of a culture different than their own. Own your bigotry, boys! Don’t run away when you’re asked to articulate it! Unless, that is, you realize that you are bigots, and are a little ashamed of it all now.

And no word whether these kids ever did JROTC in high school or are serving in the military now or have ever served in civics organizations. I remember when this incident happened a friend of mine called these boys "heroes" and the local teabag freaks were using these kids as MARTYRS. But to me, they're nothing more than RACIST CHICKENHAWKS.

[George II]

1. "Do not say to anyone in the United States you can't wear an American flag."

The funny thing is that it was against the law, FEDERAL law, to wear an American Flag on clothing until about 20 years ago.

[Blue_Tires]

12. Not only that, wearing an American flag in the 60s was one of the biggest

anti-authoritarian fashion statements a person could make...Someone doing this in a conservative community risked a LOT of ire, if not physical harm...

[happyslug]

19. Common misconception, it was NOT against Federal Law.

Now, technically it is Federal Law NOT to do anything that shows disrespect for the flag, but it was passed as a law WITHOUT PUNISHMENT. i.e. it was illegal to use the flag as a shirt, and the Federal punishment was that people could tell you it was illegal and violated the Flag Code.

Now, 48 of the 50 states made it a STATE CRIME to violate the Federal Flag Code and it was those laws that the US Supreme Court Struck in 1989.

For more see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

[dem in texas]

2. Wearing the Flag

I have always disliked seeing people with the flag on their clothes and flying a flag on their car. I think is disrespectful. You see the flags on cars getting tattered and worn and the flag shirts getting faded or with holes. How many of these people know a flag should be treated and how you are supposed to dispose of a flag. They disrespect and trivialize the importance of the flag as a symbol of our country.

[catnhatnh]

3. "Do not say to anyone in the United States you can't wear an American flag."

The flag should not be used as "wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery",[5] or for covering a speaker's desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general (exception for coffins). Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.
From "The Flag Code" Public Law 77-623; chapter 435

[yuiyoshida]

4. A few years back during the World Series

Small American Flags were sewn on Baseball players caps. Also I have seen Security guard companies with American flag patches on the shoulder. I wonder if this would apply to ceramic Lapel pins worn in both the House and Senate?

[Ash_F]

10. Pins are allowed. They should be worn over the heart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code

[yuiyoshida]

13. I guess MLB is at fault..

[Ash_F]

15. Yeah... that's not right.

It is a written, but not enforceable, code. Per a supreme court decision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

I think flag/symbolic idolatry is misguided anyway, but you would think these people could do it in a more dignified manner.

[yuiyoshida]

17. If I recall this whole thing started

After 911.. the World Series following, both Teams wore American flag patches on their caps.

[Ash_F]

20. Yeah, it got a little weird around then.

In my great state of Texas, the legislature quickly mandated that all students pledge allegiance to the flag on a daily basis, but did not provide funding for flags or poles. The solution our high school came up with was to print out flags on 8.5x11 sheets of paper and tape them to walls. This of course broke the flag code seven different ways which we loved to point out to our annoyed teachers.

[George II]

35. I wonder how righwingers felt about these incidents?

[Crowman1979]

5. If they were legitimately protesting, they would have worn a French flag shirt...

....with the symbol of the French Foreign Legion.

[pnwmom]

7. Maybe they weren't protesting.

Maybe they were just saying something like, "hey, we're all Americans."

[pnwmom]

6. Here's what Wikipedia says about Cinco de Mayo:

"It originated with Mexican-American communities in the American West as a way to commemorate the cause of freedom and democracy during the first years of the American Civil War, and today the date is observed in the United States as a celebration of Mexican heritage and pride." Wikipedia also mentions that Cinco de Mayo is not Mexico's Independence Day.

I think the principal overreacted. Maybe the students wearing the t-shirts might have provoked a reaction from the other students, maybe not. As long as the reaction was only verbal, it could have been a learning occasion for the students involved.

[Victor_c3]

23. I was going to reply with something similar

Cinco De Mayo is a much bigger holiday in the US than it is in much of Mexico (at least according to what I've read in the past).

[Snake Plissken]

8. If you lived in Mexico would you you give a shit if someone wore a Mexican flag on the 4th of July?

I don't think I'd even notice; This entire incident is ridiculous.

One side trying to out stupid the other.

[LanternWaste]

16. Only one side of stupid in this instance. The other side was, at worst, merely benign.

"One side trying to out stupid the other..."

Only one side of stupid in this instance. The other side was, at worst, merely benign.

[lofty1]

9. March 17th

Were the boys wearing their American flag shirts on March 17th in protest of all of those students wearing green on that most un-American holiday of St. Patrick's Day? If they weren't, whose "team" were they on that day?

[Rozlee]

18. At one time, the Irish were an oppressed minority and non-Irish

non-Catholic Americans mocked them and their heritage as well. Maybe being the Mexican-American anchor baby of Mexican nationals has made me over-sensitized, but the message I feel that those kids were sending is "We're what real Americans look like." Irish aren't the oppressed minority du jour so much anymore and St. Patty's day doesn't bring out teabaggers with pitchforks and torches. But, holidays that are relevant to certain minorities like Martin Luther King Jr. Day and certain ethnic and women's empowerment holidays seem to really push some buttons. I feel that I've assimilated quite well. I've served the US honorably in the military and have raised responsible tax-paying American citizens in my children. But, I'm proud of my heritage as well, and I feel that a faction of right-wing Americans will never accept me as a true citizen of this country. They're the type that will wear green and drink green beer on St. Patrick's Day, but will mock others that they deem unworthy as not-real-Americans.

[hughee99]

24. Just curious, why does it matter what they wore on St. Patrick's Day?

It seems the consensus here is that they are racists anyway, does also being a hypocrite make it okay to take away their free speech?

Must they protest EVERY non-US based holiday in order to be allowed to protest ANY one of them?

Free speech isn't just for ideas we like, it's for idiots, racists and hypocrites too.

[Springslips]

36. I agree

The school has no right in asking the student to hide his shirt. This court case is important as any other student right cases.

[pnwmom]

25. If they had, would the principal have told them they had to wear it

inside out?

When I was a kid wearing green on St. Patrick's day, some of the other kids (just a few) wore orange, the color of William of Orange, one of the conquerers of Catholic Ireland. No principal told them they couldn't wear that color, and no one even argued about it. We just ignored it.

[lofty1]

32. my comment

I know why the boys did not make an issue of wearing flag shirts on St. Patrick's Day.

I guess I should have noted that my comment was meant to be "tongue in cheek."

[Blandocyte]

11. While I don't think they were harmed by having to turn their shirts inside out

if it were me making the call, I'd have let them wear the shirts and counseled them about striving to keep relations civil that day. Wearing the flag is fine. Fighting, harrassing, etc. is not.

Unless there's a dress code, it seems wrong not to let a student wear a shirt with a country's flag on it.

[Snake Plissken]

22. Exactly why not educate them, instead of lowering the entire situation right down to their level

Rather than bring everyone together, It just adds fuel to the unhinged right winger's fire.

[weissmam]

14. Problem

I have a problem when a piece of cloth becomes more important than the ideal it stands for or when a lapel pin denotes your love of country

Plus I don't see anyone crying when its St Pattys day or Isreal independance day

[cosmicone]

21. Wearing the flag as a message of bigotry is anti-American

and it is probably the worst desecration of the flag since people have died to uphold the diversity of cultures, beliefs and thoughts.

[pnwmom]

26. How do you know it was an expression of bigotry?

Maybe it was a kid trying to say, "we're all Americans, right?"

[cosmicone]

27. Common sense

Why would a kid want to express that "we're all Americans" on that particular day?

It would be like someone wearing "Merry Christmas" T-shirts to a Chanukah party and saying "I'm trying to say we are all celebrating" or someone wearing a confederate flag T-shirt to MLK day and saying, "I was only symbolizing that we are all against segregation"

It may be a contorted, albeit logical rationalization that doesn't pass the smell test.

[pnwmom]

28. When I was a kid wearing green on St. Patrick's Day,

there were other kids wearing orange -- the color of William of Orange, the conquerer of Catholic Ireland.

But I don't think they were trying to say anything more than, "I'm not Irish; I'm English."

[cosmicone]

30. If you really thought that,

more power to you and I applaud your tolerant streak.

Not everyone can have such a polyannish interpretation though.

[RebelOne]

38. I've always worn green on St. Patrick's Day to celebrate

my Irish heritage from both my mother's and father's ancestry.

[pnwmom]

39. So do lots of people. When I was in kindergarten

I went home and told my mom that everyone in the class was Irish!

Even, apparently, the girl whose parents came from Japan.

[Trillo]

29. Wow, things have really changed since the 60s.

Back then in public elementary schools, we were required, everyday in southern California, to pledge allegiance to the U.S. flag.

[Igel]

31. In some ways it's rather like a Confederate flag.

The Mexican flag celebrates turning aside an attempt at seizing and occupying Mexican soil. Veracruz and anti-French revanchism, to be sure. But California and Texas was territory "seized" in the views of many in the 1840s. It's a a way of saying "we're proud of who we are"--which is fine--"as opposed to ..." which becomes divisive. It's a way of indicating pride, but also difference and disagreement with a land grab and injustice.

So also the Confederate flag. It's a way of saying "we're proud of who we are"--which is not, in many cases, restricted to or even inclusive of racism. However, it often veers into accentuating a difference that's properly covered by a greater sense of inclusion. It expresses disagreement with the results of a war.

One can justify the Mexican flag since immigrants have been abused and to some extent marginalized.

It's only recently that a South accent isn't taken to be evidence of inferiority--politically, economically, educationally, socially--by much of Northern society in the US. It's only recently that the South has stopped being the poor stepchild of the North and looked down upon. Texas is a kind of exception, since it wasn't "true south" and had its own bragging rights. Even then, "nukyular" is deemed substandard and a sign of mental deficiency, which is odd because it was Carter's informal pronunciation. Then again, it was just about then that "Southern English" started being considered not just retrograde but "cute".

Domestic politics makes the Mexican flag more acceptable and "justifiable" (although no less justified in many uses) than the Confederate flag. But when a neighbor's father insisted on flying the Mexican flag and said he'd never fly the US flag because he didn't consider Texas to be "American," it's divisive. And thoroughly Confederate in outlook.

[Nye Bevan]

33. So does this school have a list of days when American flags on clothing are banned?

Canadian Independence Day perhaps, to avoid offending students of Canadian origin? Saint George's Day, to avoid offending British students?

[lunasun]

34. How come when hippies wore the American flag it was very wrong??

Now the same folk ( and their offspring)who despised the hippies are smothered in it

AMERICA 2013 - Love it or Leave it

[Springslips]

37. Because some counter-culture types

Are arch-conservatives now. Just like how republicans march with confederate flags. Weird thing about America is that two opposing sides will in time synthesizes into something new and combinatory. Hegel's theories at work.