Report: NSA spied on Israel, shared intelligence

[Indi Guy]

Source: JTA (Jewish Telegraphic Agency}

Israel has been the target of spying by the United States’ National Security Agency, the New York Times reported, citing documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

According to the report published Saturday, the U.S. and Israel collaborate on intelligence gathering, with the Israel Signals Intelligence, or Sigint, National Unit, a high level intelligence unit, receiving raw NSA eavesdropping material from the U.S. and providing raw material from its own surveillances in return.

According to the documents, the NSA tracked “high priority Israeli military targets,” including drones and the Black Sparrow missile system...

The NSA, according to the documents, has for decades shared intelligence information from eavesdropping with rest of its “Five Eyes” partners, the Sigint agencies of Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. More limited cooperation occurs with many more countries, including formal arrangements called Nine Eyes and 14 Eyes and Nacsi, an alliance of the agencies of 26 NATO countries, according to the New York Times.

Read more: http://www.jta.org/2013/11/03/news-opinion/united-states/report-nsa-spied-on-israel-shared-intelligence

[bemildred]

1. Thwarting democracy, spreading corruption, where ever we go. nt

[geek tragedy]

2. Jonathan Pollard was unavailable for comment, I presume nt

[last1standing]

6. Yes. He's in prison for the crime of spying.

You see, the US government considers it a crime when other countries spy on us. That is why it is so heinous that we are spying on our allies.

But you knew that, didn't you?

[geek tragedy]

7. Pollard is an American citizen. I would expect a German or Israeli

who betrayed his own government to aid the US would wind up in a bunch of deserved legal trouble.

If you don't think the Israelis are still spying on us . . .

[last1standing]

9. So your theory is that if Pollard had been an Isreali citizen that would have been fine?

You have very interesting ideas on foreign policy.

[geek tragedy]

10. He never would have been hired had he been an Israeli citizen.

That's the point--he betrayed his country after being put in a position of trust.

Also, Israeli spies hold diplomatic passports in all likelihood, so no they wouldn't be in jail.

[last1standing]

11. Ah! The NSA betraying the trust of the people is fine, exposing the crimes of a rogue agency is bad.

You also skirted the question so I'll ask more directly. Do you believe it is acceptable for Israel to spy on the US?

[geek tragedy]

12. Sure. Not offended by it in the least.

It is offensive for them to lobby on behalf of Pollard as if he were Solzhenistyn though.

[last1standing]

13. Then we have a fundamental difference in opinion on what is acceptable.

If you believe that breaking the laws of foreign allies is acceptable then I can certainly see why you believe that Snowden is the guilty party for exposing the NSA's crimes against the American people.

[geek tragedy]

17. A government spying on its own citizens is a much bigger deal than

a government spying on the rest of the world.

Also, spies operating without proper control from elected branches is disturbing regardless of whom they're spying on.

[last1standing]

18. Spying on allies is a very big deal.

Especially trusted allies like France and Germany. Even the Obama administration admits this.

[geek tragedy]

19. Spying at one level or another is inevitable.

Hacking into a cell phone of a head of state is a different animal than chatting up government employees, taking pictures of installations, etc.

[24601]

14. Doesn't matter is he also had been an Israeli citizen. As a US citizen, he had a legal obligation

to not conduct espionage against the United States.

And absent diplomatic immunity, nationals of other nations caught in the US conducting espionage against the US face legal jeopardy.

[last1standing]

15. The NSA had a legal obligation not to spy on US citizens.

So which obligation is more compelling: the obligation to expose systemic criminal activity in government or the obligation to the subvert the will of the American people and the Constitution?

It seems to me that the NSA apologists on this forum have misplaced priorities.

[Indi Guy]

36. Many of whom you speak are in perfect agreement with the Feinstein agenda. n/t

[brush]

33. We're not the only country that jails spies. C'mon already. nt

[last1standing]

35. Since I never stated that we are, you must have responded to the wrong poster.

Or are you purposely trying to pervert my comments?

If you are trying to pervert my comments, why are you doing so? Are you totally unable to fashion a reasonable argument unless you change the terms of the debate?

[brush]

40. Your post makes it seem that the US . . .

engages in grave espionage hypocrisy. You wrote:

"You see, the US government considers it a crime when other countries spy on us. That is why it is so heinous that we are spying on our allies."

But we all know other countries jail spies, and spy on us as well but you only call the US "heinous".

Spying has been going on for forever and will continue, and all counties that can afford it do it for not just military/strategic reasons but for economic, business and technical advantage as well.

[last1standing]

45. I'll just copy/paste my response to the silly-ass comment you made to me in another thread.

Yes, all nations spy.

If the world were nothing more than a yes/no equation you would have a point, but it's not. All nations spy, but not all nations' spy outfits have been proved to be spying on their own citizens in violation of their laws and customs. Not all nations' outfits have been proved to have tapped into the cell phones of their staunchest allies' heads of state. Not all nations' spy outfits have been proved to have lied directly to the very people charged with their oversight.

And by the way, even if some others are proved to have done so, it still does not make the NSA's abuses legal or ethical.

[brush]

46. Talk about silly . . .

now you're agreeing with me?

[last1standing]

47. As I originally wrote that comment more than nine hours before your latest response...

I'm thinking you'll have a hard time convincing me, or anyone else, that I'm agreeing with you. It's an order of events thing.

There's also the fact that it's difficult to tell what you believe since you've mostly limited your comments to childish yes/no equations and then calling anyone who doesn't agree with your simplistic ideology "naïve."

[brush]

48. Whatever you say

Resorting to name calling is what's silly and childish.

I don't give credence to every report about heads of states phones being tapped and President Obama listening in.

I'll leave that to the people that seem to want to believe those reports without real evidence of their veracity.

Now you can continue with your name calling.

[last1standing]

49. LOL! You call me "naive" then make the untrue claim that I'm "name calling."

You poor thing. You want to run the world based on what you "give credence to" whether it's backed up by fact or merely a delusional desire to be right.

It doesn't work that way. You've tried to make me say something I never did and then you tried to take credit for words I typed over nine hours earlier than your response (which also didn't say what you later claimed it said). If you want to try to twist my words and steal them, I'm going to call out your attempts.

Now you can continue with your misleading and untrue comments.

[brush]

50. God! Sure your elevator goes to the top floor?

[last1standing]

51. You have no clue what you're talking about so you resort to insults when you can't argue logically.

You've embarrassed yourself in this thread - and many others - by proving you don't understand the issues or how to debate a point without resorting to grade school invective.

Let's see if you can come up with something just as witty as your last comment.

[brush]

52. Ahhh . . . you're the one that resorted to the name calling

Your comments in our exchange have gotten so over the top . . .

Is there a medication issue?

[last1standing]

53. Again with insults and comments that aren't true.

Please point out where I've insulted you - not your silly-ass comments. If you can't do so, you're making up comments that aren't true. Then it will be my turn to ask if you have a medication issue.

[brush]

54. Your words upthread:

"I'll just copy/paste my response to the silly-ass comment you made"

Most people would call that an insult.

Don't bother to answer. I'm through with you.

[last1standing]

55. Most intelligent people would consider that a condemnation of your comments.

But you are apparently an entirely different kind of 'intelligent' person.

Anyway, I'm glad you're through with me. I don't think I could take much more of your witty, biting commentary. I was beginning to fear being called a "poopie-head."

[cantbeserious]

3. Learning Daily How Out Of Control The NSA Truly Is

eom

[iamthebandfanman]

4. Good. Glad they have been.

Hope they still are.

Why exactly should we trust our 'allies' that sell our military designs to china?

Sorry, but the government of Israel is sleazy and corrupt... they SHOULD be monitored.


Again, this notion that our allies don't spy on us is just soooo soo funny to me..
one of the most naïve notions ive ever read on DU. Ever.

[Comrade Grumpy]

5. Wow. Snowden is the gift that keeps on giving.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. Well Israel spies on us so that's even

[Ash_F]

16. It's creepy how ethnic this spying fiasco is.

The 'Five Eyes' is strictly Anglo dominated nations. Even a supposedly close ally like Israel doesn't get to be part of the club.

Doesn't anybody find that a little creepy? Is it just me?

[geek tragedy]

20. Israel spies on the US, so no they don't get to join the club nt

[Ash_F]

23. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should.

I think the whole thing is stupid and dangerous. But consider that the NSA is dominated from top to bottom with Republicans, which are little more than a White nationalist party. I don't think Israel is out of the club for any reason other than not being Anglo.

[geek tragedy]

26. The five eyes don't spy on each other--basic rule of admission. nt

[Ash_F]

27. So you don't think there is any racial aspect to it?

These fives countries are basically THE 5 Anglo countries. Just an observation.

[Jesus Malverde]

29. They were the five anglo countries that were unambiguously allied with the US.

You might be on to something, check this out.

The NSA is widely reported to have built the billion dollar data center in Utah. The place they chose, I shit you not, is 96.96% White, 0.23% African American, 0.28% Native American, 0.23% Asian, 0.26% Pacific Islander, 1.19% from other races, and 0.85% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 3.34% of the population. Hard to find many towns in America that are that white.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluffdale,_Utah

[Ash_F]

31. Interesting observation

I was more focused on the NSA's leadership, with people like James Clapper and Kieth Alexander. It could not be any more of a Republican stronghold.

Let me restate that the Republican party is nothing but a White nationalist party. The rest of America, including non-racist Whites is slowly waking up to that.

And now, thanks to you, we see that the NSA's actual stronghold is a White Republican stronghold.

[geek tragedy]

30. Based on a 1941 treaty nt

[Jesus Malverde]

42. I'm not sure thats true.

I believe the game has been the NSA has not been allowed to monitor americans so they let GCHQ do it. My understanding it's a signals intelligence circle jerk.

[Indi Guy]

21. The Israeli gov. has many fingers in the American pie...

...to the point where some consider her to be the tail wagging the dog.

[Jesus Malverde]

24. NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel

• Secret deal places no legal limits on use of data by Israelis
• Only official US government communications protected
• Agency insists it complies with rules governing privacy
• Read the NSA and Israel's 'memorandum of understanding'

The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals.

Details of the intelligence-sharing agreement are laid out in a memorandum of understanding between the NSA and its Israeli counterpart that shows the US government handed over intercepted communications likely to contain phone calls and emails of American citizens. The agreement places no legally binding limits on the use of the data by the Israelis.

The disclosure that the NSA agreed to provide raw intelligence data to a foreign country contrasts with assurances from the Obama administration that there are rigorous safeguards to protect the privacy of US citizens caught in the dragnet. The intelligence community calls this process "minimization", but the memorandum makes clear that the information shared with the Israelis would be in its pre-minimized state.

The deal was reached in principle in March 2009, according to the undated memorandum, which lays out the ground rules for the intelligence sharing.

The five-page memorandum, termed an agreement between the US and Israeli intelligence agencies "pertaining to the protection of US persons", repeatedly stresses the constitutional rights of Americans to privacy and the need for Israeli intelligence staff to respect these rights.

But this is undermined by the disclosure that Israel is allowed to receive "raw Sigint" – signal intelligence. The memorandum says: "Raw Sigint includes, but is not limited to, unevaluated and unminimized transcripts, gists, facsimiles, telex, voice and Digital Network Intelligence metadata and content."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents

[Purveyor]

28. I do remember this, might even have posted a thread on it. Thanks for posting.

[Purveyor]

22. The whole 'israel' angle to the Snowden revelations have been missing so far. Either Snowden is

sympathetic to the apartheid regime in israel or he is saving the 'good stuff' for the grand.

Myself I'm anticipating the latter.

[Jesus Malverde]

25. see above...nt

[dlwickham]

32. is anyone actually surprised by this

countries have been spying on each other since there have been countries

[brush]

34. Exactamundo!

The naivete here sometimes . . . on DU no less.

[dlwickham]

39. I don't think it's people being naive

I think it's mostly people who want to complain about every little thing that Obama does or is accused of doing

[brush]

41. Yes, there is definitely that.

Last edited Mon Nov 4, 2013, 12:00 PM - Edit history (1)

There are Obama nitpickers for sure, but some posters seem:

"Shocked, shocked that there is spying (gambling) going on in this establishment", if I may paraphrase a line from the movie Casablanca.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. Nope.

But it interferes with certain agendas. No doubt there are those who screech about the evils of spying who are suddenly OK with this announcement. This information shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

[Jesus Malverde]

43. I'm sure these leaks are in part to give the feeling to Americans that we were not singled out for

spying. We were treated just like the germans and the french.

The real scandal here is not spying on foreigners it's spying on our own people just like the CHINESE or the STASI.

[Scootaloo]

37. I'd be more interested in knowing what nations we HAVEN'T been spying on

I'm sure it's a much smaller - and probably more interesting - list.

Ten bucks says we've even been eavesdropping on Nauru.

Another ten bucks says that the "progressives" who are uniformly fine with spying are suddenly outraged by this particular instance of spying.

[Blue_Tires]

44. kick for truth...