Obama says current U.S. policy towards Cuba ‘doesn’t make sense’

[IDemo]

Source: Raw Story

The United States must continue to update its policy towards communist Cuba, President Barack Obama said late on Friday, speaking at the home of a prominent Cuban-American activist.

Freedom in Cuba will come from the work of activists, Obama said, but the United States can help in “creative” and “thoughtful” ways.

“And we have to continue to update our policies,” said Obama, speaking at a political fundraiser at the home of Jorge Mas Santos, head of the Cuban-American National Foundation (CANF).

“Keep in mind that when Castro came to power, I was just born. So the notion that the same policies that we put in place in 1961 would somehow still be as effective as they are today in the age of the Internet and Google and world travel doesn’t make sense.”

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/09/obama-says-current-u-s-policy-towards-cuba-doesnt-make-sense/

[craigmatic]

1. Can't Obama do somethings by exec order and agreement to open relations up?

I know repeal of the embargo has to be done by congress.

[Shemp Howard]

3. He can do a lot by executive order!

The Constitution gives the President the authority to conduct foreign relations. So yes, he can do a lot here.

But, once again, we see Obama talk like he is a concerned junior Senator and not the President of the United States.

[Arkana]

114. If he lifts the embargo via executive order,

the next Republican (or cowardly Democrat) will just rescind the order. It needs to have the full force of law behind it.

Why do you guys always operate like Obama is a king?

[Mika]

10. The embargo is congressional. The Prez can't wave a magic wand to repeal it.

The sanctions are not on Cuba, per se. They are extraterritorial sanctions on entities that do business in Cuba.
For example, Bayer AG can't sell Aspirin to the Cuban Ministry of Health at the same time they sell Aspirin in the USA. So, which market do you think Bayer chooses? That's why we hear the mewling sycophants cry and lie that Cuba is so poor they can't even afford simple Aspirin - it has nothing to do with Cuba. It is the US that causes many of the shortages of products in Cuba.

[Laelth]

32. +1. n/t

-Laelth

[Cosmocat]

112. There you go, and in their way it works for them

to be able to point at Cuba and use it as proof that communism does not work.

The bizarre "policy" toward CUBA is a win/win for the village idiots.

[MyNameGoesHere]

2. Well if he can talk on a phone to Iran

I am guessing Cuba wouldn't be that much more difficult. I suppose this is a test to see how the idea plays out in Florida. Luckily those Batista worshippers are getting pretty old and their influence isn't what it used to be.

[cosmicone]

4. Yes... restore diplomatic relations and trade with Cuba

by executive order.

Stick it to the fucking right-wing cubans like Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. Let them go piss up a rope.

[mimi85]

57. Well said....

God, those two piss me off every time I see their smug mugs. They don't even have to open their mouths, although they do far too frequently. I so wish they would both STFU!

[Paladin]

5. Thank you, Mr. President. This sort of statement is way overdue. (nt)

[bluedeathray]

6. Lot of money to be made in Cuba

Heck, cigars and car parts alone...

It's a vacation paradise too.

[brush]

14. Just think of all those 50s American cars to restore.

The car restoration TV show people would come back with boatloads of 50s cars after dropping bundles of cash to the Cuban owners.

A win-win for all.

[olddad56]

49. my first thought, exctly

[Vogon_Glory]

101. Um. You Might Want To Be Careful About Those Cars

Car collectors might want to be careful before buying one of those 1950's cars from its Cuban owner(s). Many of those cars use parts and engines that are anything BUT what originally came from Detroit and other places.

Pop the hoods on a lot of those babies and you might see Japanese engines or perhaps something that came from a Soviet Lada. I suspect that many of those cars' transmissions and brakes also have interesting, non-Detroit provenances.

This is not a slam at Cuba or Cuba's car owners. Many of Cuba's car owners have had to become adaptive, resourceful people who have had to improvise, repair, and install to keep their US-built machines hundreds of thousands of miles and decades beyond their designed life-cycles.

[brush]

120. It's really about the body of the car

If the body is straight and intact, there's a whole industry for replacement parts for 50s cars, especially Chevys — engines, transmissions, rear ends — the whole deal.

[Mika]

7. More BS than a 3 ring circus.

Castro became the Head of State of Cuba in 1976. Of course, Americans have had their brains washed, and few care to know much other than the corporocratic nonsense.

Osvaldo Dorticós
http://library.thinkquest.org/18355/osvaldo_dorticos.html

Osvaldo Dorticós served as the first President of Cuba after the Revolution of 1959. He was born in 1919.

Dorticós had not played much of a role in the Revolution. He was made President afterwards, with Fidel Castro serving as Prime Minister.

During his term, he always acted in accordance with Castro's policies. When Castro wanted to establish trade with the US, Dorticós told the people that diplomacy could solve the problems Cuba was having with the US.

Later, Castro and Dorticós decided that an agreement with the United States could not be reached. That same day Eisenhower gave the CIA permission to begin planning an invasion of Cuba to topple the revolutionary government.

As President, Dorticós made a trip to Belgrade in order to attend a meeting of neutral countries. He also made visits to the Soviet Union and one to China.

On June 16, 1962, demonstrations in Cárdenas began. The demonstrations consisted mainly of housewives in the streets, protesting the poor economic situation. The demonstrations were ended, and Dorticós denounced the protests. He blamed the poor economic conditions on the "imperalist blockade."

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, Cuba was threatened by an American invasion. As a result, the Soviets had installed nuclear weapons, but kept the program secret. While giving a speech at the UN, Dorticós announced that Cuba now had weapons which "it had not wanted and hoped it would not have to use."

Dorticós remained President of Cuba until 1976, when Prime Minister Castro took over the job. Dorticós died in 1983.

[1StrongBlackMan]

76. What, exactly, are you taking issue with? n/t

[Mika]

85. I take issue with all of the falsehoods embedded in the myths of US/Cuba relations.

Starting with the major mis-truth that Castro "took over" Cuba in 1959. Shame on Mr Obama for repeating this canard over and over again - especially pandering to the most egregious factions of the Cuban "exile" community in Miami with this lie.

[1StrongBlackMan]

98. I didn't read where ...

PRESIDENT Obama claimed anything about Castro, just that the US must re-visit it's relationship with communist Cuba.

[7962]

122. Of course you are right, but that doesnt matter to some apologists.

[7962]

106. If you think anyone but Castro was in charge, look at "President" Medvedev in Russia

Title means nothing.
That being said, an embargo means NOTHING when only ONE country is doing it.

[Mika]

116. Then, clearly, you don't understand the extraterritorial nature of the US sanctions.

The sanctions are on entities that do business in/with Cuba. Elsewhere in this thread I describe why Bayer AG can't sell Aspirin to Cuba. So, your point is incorrect..

[7962]

121. Bu a lot of other companies can and do. Just like travel, investment, etc.

And recently a shortage of aspirin in Cuba was because they were shipping it to their friends, the Venezuelans, among others.
Not too many years ago you couldnt buy Coors beer east of the Mississippi, but you could still buy beer. Aspirin is way more generic than beer.
Cuba is in their mess because of their own policies.
But I still think the embargo is a wasted effort and should be dropped.

[Hippo_Tron]

109. That's like saying that the Queen is the Head of Government in the UK...

Regardless of the fact that Dorticos held the ceremonial Head of State role, Castro was in charge of the government just as David Cameron is in charge of the government in the UK.

[Mika]

115. No bill can become a law until the Queen has allowed it by royal charter and signing it.

Dorticos wasn't the ceremonial head of state. He was the active president.
After the Cuban Revolution, Mr Castro went back to law school. He interrupted his doctoral studies and left school to help the military design a strategy to defend against the US invasion at Playa Giron. Then, he went back to school and got his doctorate in law.
Fidel Castro did not become Prime Minister until after he was elected to the National Assembly, Santiago de Cuba District #17, in 1976.
I've lived there, and know the real Cuban history, not the American version.

[Hippo_Tron]

117. According to your own link, Castro was made Prime Minister right after the revolution

And again, the Queen's signing of bills is ceremonial at this point. She has no actual power....

[Spitfire of ATJ]

8. I can hear the likes of Palin now, "This is expected from a Marxist, Communist like Obama"....

Then she moves on to talk about how we should model our country after Communist China.

[awoke_in_2003]

12. I can see Cuba...

from my beach front property

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. Limbaugh can see Cuba from his cigar.

[Vogon_Glory]

102. The Wasilla Diva Wasn't Born Until AFTER The Cuban Missile Crisis n/t

[former9thward]

9. Re-establish diplomatic relations with Cuba, Mr. President.

You can do that today with a stroke of a pen. Congress has no say.

[Mika]

26. Not correct. It is a myriad of laws passed by congress.

POTUS can't override all sanctions on Cuba.

[former9thward]

30. What I said is 100% correct.

I never said "all sanctions". In fact, I never said a word about sanctions. He has absolute authority to do what I suggested. That is re-establish diplomatic relations and place an embassy in Havana and a Cuban embassy in D.C.

[Mika]

34. You're right. I misread your post. Sorry.

[former9thward]

40. If I had a $1 for all the posts I have misread...

I would be having a big party tonight!

[BumRushDaShow]

45. Congress would have to appropriate funding to maintain Embassy operations

and that's not about to happen while the idjits control the House. So any "stroke of the pen" is very limited.

I know many DUers think the Executive Branch operates for free without need of anything from Congress, but whatever.

[former9thward]

47. Excuses.

Everybody has them when they don't want to do something. We already have an American Interests section in Havana which operates out of the Swiss embassy. Congress is funding that. Take the money from there. Congress can't stop Cuba from setting up an embassy in D.C. Once normal relations were established everything would flow from there. Some in Congress would kick and scream but so what. Obama is not running again.

[davidpdx]

69. There's probably some technical way of getting around it

Where Cuba could donate space for a small consulate in the beginning as a negotiation point. Put a minimum number of people there just to start. If things were to eventually work and the US was to build a full fledged embassy then the US could agree to buy the land from the government.

[1StrongBlackMan]

77. Yes ...

Everything/Anything can be done with a "stroke of the pen" when sitting on one's couch. The world is such a simple place, and her problems so much simplier, from the the couch.

[ronnie624]

108. Just another excuse for not doing the right thing,

albeit, expressed through sarcasm.

[1StrongBlackMan]

113. No ...

just another sarcastic noting that nothing is as simple as those say "he could just ...", even if it is the right thing.

[Mika]

11. IOW, "its our way or the highway".

Freedom in Cuba will come from the work of activists, Obama said, but the United States can help in “creative” and “thoughtful” ways.

Great. More CIA activity. More Cubanet taxpayer funding for propaganda BS to be used on Americans.

FYI, Cuba is free, and sovereign, and has been since 1959 when they kicked out the US backed oligarchs and dictator.

[indepat]

24. Kick out our oligarchs and favored dictator and we will still be teaching you a lesson 50 years

later so: you got that message, Cuba?

[dbackjon]

15. No it doesn't make sense

We have open relations with countries that kill gays, are truly communist, and other less than stellar countries.

Cuba is enlightened and open compared to say, Saudi Arabia

[Mika]

28. Cuba is one of the more progressive nations in the western hemisphere.

Universal health care, universal higher ed, universal child care, citizen sovereignty, almost 50% female representation in the 3 levels of their parliamentary system of elected gov't.

Americans wish for such things.

[Socialistlemur]

36. Cuba is a dictatorship

They are as progressive as dinosaurs, but they do seem to be moving over towards fascism

[Mika]

43. Sure. After your extensive research, you come to this conclusion? LMAO

Never mind that I've been in Cuba during entire elections seasons.
Never mind that I lived in Cuba.
Never mind that I have many relatives & friends there, and I visit often.
Never mind that I teach surgical seminars in Cuba to Cuban doctors.

Never mind that you've never been there. Never done honest research. All you do is hurl the US/Cuban exile party line.

What's below isn't for you, Socialistlemur. I've discussed this with you countless times. You have ZERO interest in this other than to repeat ad-nausium the same line.
What's below is for others who might be truly interested...

WHAT DOES DEMOCRACY LOOK LIKE?
Cuba, Its ALBA Allies, and the United States
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2013/smith181013.html

The Communist Party is not involved in nominating or electing candidates. Unlike in the other 20th century Communist countries -- and unlike in the US itself -- in Cuba citizens themselves propose candidates in municipal, provincial, and national elections. Likewise, the Cuban CP members (800,000 members, 10% of the adult population), in contrast to political party members here or in the Soviet bloc, are chosen by their peers in their workplaces or educational institutions, based on their reputation as model workers.

Unlike in the US, neighbors directly nominate Municipal Assembly candidates among themselves in neighborhoods meetings. Municipal Assembly delegates are elected from the nominees based on secret ballot. Almost all those elected are unpaid, working as people's representatives after work hours.

Municipal Assembly delegates comprise up to 50% of the deputies to the Provincial and National Assemblies of People's Power (ANPP). The other 50% are nominated, not in back rooms by party big wigs as in our country, by the six mass organizations: the trade unions (CTC), Federation of Cuban Women (FMC), National Association of Small Farmers (ANAP), Federation of University Students (FEU), Federation of Pre-University Students (FEEM), and the CDRs. Clearly this system is vastly more open and democratic than in the US.

ANPP delegates, elected to 5-year terms, are not paid. The ANPP delegates then choose their president, vice-president, and Council of State (who work full-time, with pay). Half the ANPP deputies sit on permanent working government commissions.

The voting age is 16 or older, with no restrictions on the right to vote, which disenfranchise millions in the US. In 2008, 43% of the national People's Power deputies were women, 6% aged 18-30, 19% Black (who are 10% of the population), and 16% mestizo (25% of the population).

In the early 1990s, People's Councils were established to encourage more popular participation. "The potential for further democratization of Cuban society at the grassroots," August states, "lies in the CPs [people's councils]" (p.221).

"Cuba is a laboratory . . . of a new socialism and democracy" (p. 231). As the Cubans say, they have no guidebook for building socialism, especially that in a Third World country. Every move forward can only be based on trial and error, and since the U.S. rulers remain on watch 24/7 for the chance to seize upon any error to overthrow it, Cuba must proceed cautiously.

This book will explain in great detail Cuba's democratic processes. Its at Amazon, very inexpensive. Worth the read.

[ConcernedCanuk]

54. well said Mika

.
.
.



CC

[Ash_F]

67. But my TV said otherwise!

[Judi Lynn]

72. Too few people have any idea of Cuban history, and current Cuba.

As long as the travel ban remains in place all the pure crap told to unimaginative people who won't take the time to think, and inquire, to research will be the common belief. That is a hideous crime against the U.S. citizens, to have been duped so long due to simple, easy to produce propaganda.

Once that travel ban is gone, we'll have the extreme pleasure of seeing all these clowns become the butts of so many jokes to others.

There's no time like the present for people who want to see behind the crap curtain to start thinking about the things they hear, like your outstanding comments, then start looking into Cuban history, and just keep on going until they become illuminated! It's inevitable.

Thank you for your patience, and restraint, Mika, and all the information which needs to be known, and in a hurry.

[Vogon_Glory]

103. Agreed

I may disagree with the way the Castro government handles its economic policies and political dissent, but compared with dozens of countries that could stand in for real-life Berzerkistans scattered around the globe, Cuba is rather mild. I see no reason why we shouldn't have diplomatic relations with Havana.

Hey, even Franco's Spain had diplomatic relations with Havana during the depths of the Cold War.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. There are now many legal ways to visit Cuba, and I urge you to do so if you can

I went with a church group, and it was a fascinating experience.

You're completely cut off from the U.S. That's a rare experience in today's world. Your cell phone won't work unless you bought it in Europe and it has a European SIM. Internet is dial-up only and too slow to be worth the cost of renting a station.

The island is beautiful, the people are friendly, and the music and art are incredible. Yes, people are poor, but also resourceful. We visited the ecumenical Protestant seminary in Matanzas, located on a hill with a gorgeous view of the city and the bay, and learned how, during the "special period" after Russia cut off assistance, they started a full-scale farm on the grounds. We had lunch at the seminary: roast chicken, salad, beans, and rice, with everything except the rice grown on their farm.

A couple of surprises. Yes, there are old American cars, but a lot more European and Chinese ones. Restrictions on religious activities have been loosened in the past twenty years--we heard this from both Christians and Jews. In fact, one of the events on our schedule was attending an ecumenical meeting of the various Christian denominations, featuring an American speaker from the World Council of Churches and the presiding bishop of the American Episcopal Church. Santería, the African-derived religion with a Catholic overlay, is widely practiced, and you see the white-clad initiates everywhere. There are no pictures of Castro in public places, since he wants to avoid the kind of personality cult that prevails in North Korea and used to prevail in China and the Soviet Union. You see people with cell phones.

We stayed in a convent in the Old City, which was spared the bulldozer precisely because of the revolution. (Batista planned to raze it and build a "modern" city.) Parts of it are rundown, but it is gradually being restored, starting with the plazas and radiating outward, without displacing the residents permanently. There are tourist-oriented restaurants and lodgings in the Old City, but real people live there, too, and one afternoon, I saw kids from the local school having soccer practice in the Plaza Vieja in the afternoon, and Cuban teenagers hanging out in the evenings. We saw several old buildings that had been gutted and were being restored on the outside and modernized on the inside.

There are some inconveniences. You can't drink the tap water (I got violently ill from the ice after drinking a mojito at a non-tourist establishment on the last night of the trip), and very little English is spoken, so my high school Spanish and dictionary got a workout. In many places, the toilets have no seats and cannot deal with toilet paper, so there's a stinky wastebasket in each stall. The food was rather monotonous, even in the tourist places, consisting of meat or fish, rice, and beans. We were happy to discover a Middle Eastern restaurant in the Old City for a change of pace. The coffee and desserts were good, though.

If you can't go with a religious organization, you can go with a number of cultural institutions or educational travel outfits such as the Smithsonian or Elderhostel.

[riverbendviewgal]

33. many Canadians go to cuba

And keep going back and love it. When americans start coming it won't be the same,

[Le Taz Hot]

78. Oh, please do elaborate

seeing how all Americans are exactly alike.

[davidpdx]

70. Probably better to see it now before it's fully developed

and still untouched. Once the developers come in areas will probably change a lot.

[Judi Lynn]

73. There used to be a fantastic Canadian poster here who's been to Cuba a lot.

She says Canadians who go there really dread the day thousands of US Americans will be swarming all over the alligator-shaped island from east to west, all the time.

Here's a photo which was discovered by another great DU poster, Say_What, showing a man standing on a Havana street in his special t-shirt:

[center][/center]

[Le Taz Hot]

79. Ok, this is the second remark like this.

Will SOMEBODY please explain what the hell that's supposed to mean? An American steps on Cuban soil and all of a sudden it's ruined? WHAT.THE.FUCK?

[Mika]

84. Its the counter corollary to the notion that all Cuba needs is America(ns) ...

... to make things great there.
Somehow many Americans, including DUers, think that Cuba isn't opened up to the world. It is.
Cuba is lauded all over this planet for their global good deeds in education, health care, emergency response, organic agriculture, etc.
Cuba is really only vilified by the US gov't. In fact, every year the UN holds a vote, nearly universally condemning the US sanctions - except for 1 or two other US proxy states.

[Le Taz Hot]

88. And the U.S. Government

is not the people of the U.S. so when vilifying Americans, maybe that can be made more clear.

[Mika]

93. Villifying Americans?

That is EXACTLY why I said "gov't". OK?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

95. I think, Taz, that they're really referring to American business interests,

which will want to put a McDonald's on every street corner and in other ways make Cuba less unique.

[Le Taz Hot]

100. And as I've been trying to specify all day,

maybe they could be more specific and not say "Americans when they mean "American business interests." Those are two entirely different things.

[Mika]

118. US business & US gov't go hand in hand.

Read Smedley Butler's War Is A Racket.

[Judi Lynn]

97. Businesses and the families of former "exiles" in South Florida

have been planning to take over Cuba all over again as soon as humanly possible, just like the good 'ol days prior to the revolution.

In South Florida, using funds provided by the US Congress with US taxpayers' hard earned money, they've been creating their own plans for completely dismantling the Cuban government and destroying the universal health care which has made the Cuban people healthier than anywhere else in the Americas, their universal total education system, known world-wide, and their steady progress against the unbelievable poverty which imprisoned Cuban workers in periods of no work at all, then seasonal work either planting or harvesting sugar cane, or tobacco. Cuba was once a slavery based economy, and the oligarchs didn't grow food for the island, they grew sugar and tobacco for their European and US American customers' households.

The poor continued to live without food, medicine, plumbing, clean water, any decent shelter, couldn't even grow their own food as they didn't have any access to land. Some tried to grow food in the space along the sides of railroad tracks and the police would always raid them.

As Mika has pointed out, a large number of the Cuban poor lived perennially with intestinal parasites.

They do NOT want Cuba to be forced to return to the days Cubans REALLY didn't have a chance, and the economy really DID revolve around the tourists, and people in other countries, when Cuba was known as the "Whorehouse of the Caribbean."

Even the U.S. Navy used Cuba as a "Rest and Recreation" spot.

Here is a compilation of various attractions in Cuba to which US Americans migrated for entertainment prior to the revolution:

It was all material published in the 1950's, and it's really almost comical now, yet tacky!

http://cuban-exile.com/menu1/%21entertain.html

Cuba doesn't want this back, along with the fast-food restaurants which have taken over throughout the Central American countries, and in South America, along with the pollution, congestion, traffic.

[Le Taz Hot]

99. And as I pointed out,

What's his/her name mentioned Americans. Not Cuban-Americans, not big-money Americans, not American interests. Just Americans. Next time he/she needs to MORE SPECIFIC.

I don't know the history of Cuba. I don't CARE about the history of Cuba. I don't care if it's open or closed. There are enough things about this country that needs fixing and, frankly Cuba isn't even on the radar. What I do mind is accusing "Americans" of ruining Cuba -- as in all 300 million of us, when he/she means, literally, a FEW Cuban Americans. That was the whole fucking point. Jesus, I don't know how to make it any clearer.

I'm done but if you want to carry on a conversation with yourself, be my guest.

[The Wizard]

17. Whatever the President does

will draw criticism from the teahaddists. For far too many years politicians have been fearful to enact reasonable policy toward Cuba for fear of angering Florida's Cuban bloc that controls Florida's electoral votes. They still believe that when Castro is gone they'll return to Cuba and get back the property that was seized with Castro's ascendency to power.

[Kingofalldems]

18. So he admits he was born in Cuba. Aha!

[Sunlei]

19. open up Cuba Pres. O..people are tired of traveling to Canada and Mexico to fly to Cuba.

states like Florida should be screaming for the travel revenue.

[Mika]

21. Cuba is open! It's Americans that are closed off from Cuba - by the US gov't, not Cuba's.

States like Florida have many tourism interests of their own - they don't want competition for vacationers dollars.
Disney wields a large stick in Fla. Disney would lose big-time when the US gov't changes American travel policy.

[Sunlei]

22. Cuba is open. people fly to mexico and canada-don't have to even use passport to go to cuba

Then people fly back to Mexico or Canada. Then they use passport to go home to the usa from their 'mexico or Canada vacation.

Of course if your're anyone on Gov or political radar you have to jump through the huge red tape hoops or they'll ruin your life.

Free Cuba and Puerto Rico already..they are no longer slave islands!!

[davidpdx]

71. People do the same thing with North Korea

They fly in and out of China.

[Rebellious Republican]

23. Mika, I have read all of your posts on this thread. I live in Florida and am trying to

understand the Cuban situation. So that I can make an informed decision regarding our policies toward Cuba. What would you suggest POTUS do, up or down, should we ease restrictions or keep things the way they are?

[Mika]

25. POTUS can't. The sanctions on Cuba are congressional - passed into law.

The Miami-Cubans don't really have much power - they are used for flak for the corporocrats who profit, both politically and financially, from sanctions.

For example, the heaviest part of US sanctions on Cuba is the Helms-Burton Law. They weren't Cuban, nor Floridian.

Of course we should end sanctions on Cuba. It only hurts the Cuban people, and further entrenches the power structures there who have successfully led Cuba to sovereignty, and representation by and for Cubans.

[Rebellious Republican]

27. Thank you for your insight....

This is how I learn here at DU, and continue to grow as a person.

[Mika]

29. Check out DU's Latin America forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1108

[Rebellious Republican]

31. Bookmarked! Thanks, N/T.

[Socialistlemur]

37. But don't forget Cuba abuses human rights

It's a dictatorship.

[Rebellious Republican]

39. Yes I am aware of that....

I was hoping that relaxed travel and trade might remedy some of that. More exposure, less room to hide these abuses.

[Mika]

44. Don't take the word of a Cuba hater who has NEVER been there, and has no interest.

See my post up thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014643673#post43

[Mika]

46. How can you be aware of something that isn't true?

Read thru this older thread... inform yourself, not just from the intransigent haters ...

Electoral Process Continues Smoothly Nationwide
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x31936

[roody]

63. All countries abuse human rights.

[1StrongBlackMan]

81. Imagine how ...

police misconduct in the US would be reported/classified, if the "human rights abuse" stories were written/classified by a non-US source.

[Sunlei]

74. POTUS can place Cuba on Congresses back & ask Congress to give them the Gitmo buildings.

President Obama needs to ramp up the multitasking to Congress anyway. I think a free Cuba and a closed Gitmo would redirect Congress (and Cruz)focus in a major positive way. America will save a lot of money that we could use. Those old slave islands should be free nations anyway.

[Le Taz Hot]

80. That's wierd,

The Caribbean doesn't seem to be suffering from competition for vacation dollars. And yet, Cuba would. I notice you guys who are convinced that the minute an American steps foot on Cuban soil it would ruin Cuba but never actually say how that occurs. Other country's people are allowed to visit Cuba and it seems to have got on pretty much the same. But the second an American steps foot on this apparent island paradise, it's all gone. Do we Americans have special cooties?

[Mika]

86. No special cooties. No special powers to bring "democracy" either.

Cuba sets its own standards. Just because the US gov't might change travel policy doesn't mean that Cuba will allow an unregulated number of Americans to flood there to run roughshod over the place. The Cuban assemblies will respond appropriately with new standards in response to any potential massive influx of tourism.

[Le Taz Hot]

89. So, Americans, and only Americans,

all 300 million of us "will run roughshod over the place." Alrighty then.

[Mika]

90. Nope. That's what I said would not happen.

[Le Taz Hot]

91. Actually, that was a direct quote.

But keep on painting with that broad brush because all of us are exactly alike.

[Mika]

92. No it isn't. Reread my comment.

You inserted "will". I never said that.
But, never mind your distortion... back to the topic: Cuba will regulate the numbers - they have to because the estimates of how many Americans will go there in the first year of any potential normalization of US travel regs is astounding.

Have a nice day.

[Bosso 63]

20. Our current policy just needs more time to work.

Its only been 52 years, we can't quit now.

[Socialistlemur]

38. I'd say it needs fine tuning

I would close the jail in Guantanamo and change the base area to be a free a cuban nation. Something like Hong Kong. It will attract a huge amount of foreign investment and the USA government could encourage free Cubans to move there and build. It would become a huge economic machine.

[Rebellious Republican]

41. Have you ever been to GITMO? I have though things have changed It is already a free cuban nation....

Many Cuban nationals have lived and worked on the base as such, and some still do.

Guantánamo Bay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay


About 30 other Cubans also live on the post, and Nettleton meets monthly with a Cuban Army officer to discuss logistics and administrative issues. But the base and Cuba have almost nothing to do with each other, a fact pronounced with the two men's retirement.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/14/3141729/era-ends-at-guantanamo-as-last.html

[Rebellious Republican]

51. Hablas español? Socrates?

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
Socrates

True wisdom comes to each of us when we realize how little we understand about life, ourselves, and the world around us.
Socrates

False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil.
Socrates

The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.
Socrates

From the deepest desires often come the deadliest hate.
Socrates

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/socrates.html

[Rebellious Republican]

53. If you are in Spain, that puts you 4 hours ahead of us.

I will assume you are asleep, hope you come back to play another day. You are a lot of fun.....

[beachbum bob]

35. US cuban policy hasnt made sense

In 30 years.. Obama can and should end the restrictions.

[cui bono]

42. Good. Wasserman Schultz was twisting herself up like a pretzel trying to justify US policy

towards Cuba. She wasn't making any sense at all. Seems like it was Maher she was talking to, can't remember what show it was on, I was listening to something on my phone.

She couldn't grasp the hypocrisy of our policy towards China and Russia being different than Cuba and said it's because of Cuba's human rights issues then proceeded to describe their abuses which are exactly the same things going on in China and Russia today. And she just kept trying and trying not realizing she was contradicting herself with every sentence.

[MindMover]

58. She kept saying that Cuba has held political prisoners in prison and

are still putting people away they don't like .... does this sound like some other countries that we are friends with ...

[JoeyT]

59. Given that many of the human rights abuses we actually know happened

were at OUR prison there, I'm not sure we've got a whole lot of room to complain.

"People were tortured in Cuba!" isn't much of an argument when "Yeah, but you're the one that did it." is the counter-argument.

[Mika]

87. THE CUBAN PRISON SYSTEM - REFLECTIVE OBSERVATIONS

I encourage all DUers who have an interest in this topic to read this very informative analysis of the Cuban prison system ...

LESSONS FROM OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE SOUTH:
THE CUBAN PRISON SYSTEM - REFLECTIVE OBSERVATIONS 2000

by Prof. Soffiyah Elijah
Clinical Instructor
Criminal Justice Institute
Harvard Law School

Since the island nation of Cuba experienced its successful revolution in 1959 its prison system has been evolving. Despite accusations of harsh human rights abuses from its neighbors to the North, Cuba today maintains a prison system that is in many respects far more humane than Western propaganda would have the uninformed public believe.

My study of the Cuban prison system began in 1987 when I first visited the country to attend a conference co-sponsored by the American Association of Jurists and the Cuban Association of Jurists. I was pleasantly surprised during the trip when the opportunity arose to visit a men's prison. A group of conference attendees traveled by bus to the prison and when we arrived we were not searched and our belongings were not checked. We did not sign in or out. Nobody asked to check our identification. Having visited numerous prisons in the U.S. I have never entered any of them without a thorough search of my person and my belongings. Government issued photo identification is always required.

Although we were given a tour of the prison we were free to wander off and talk with the prisoners unmonitored. We walked all around the facility and were allowed to go into cells, work areas, the cafeteria, hospital, classrooms, recreation area and any other space we chose. This we were allowed to do unaccompanied. The prisoners wore street clothing.

Although one might think that this must have been a minimum or medium security prison, there are no such institutional classifications. Prison institutions are not characterized by security level. Rather prisoners of varying security levels are all housed in the same facility. The four levels of security classification for prisoners are maximum, high, moderate and minimum. The distinction in their security classification is borne out in the frequency with which they are allowed family and conjugal visits, mail, phone privileges and furlough availability. All prisoners, regardless of security level, are afforded at least four family and conjugal visits a year. Prisoners with the lowest security classifications are afforded more frequent family and conjugal visits than higher security classified prisoners.

Needless to say I was a bit taken aback at this very different approach. For the next thirteen years I built on this experience and conducted further research on the Cuban prison system.

In 1988 I returned to Cuba to attend the International Women¹s Conference hosted by the Federation of Cuban Women (FMC). Another opportunity arose to visit a prison, this time it was a women’s facility. My impressions were very similar to those I had when I visited the men’s facility. In a nutshell, the Cuban system still impressed me as being more humane than what I had observed in the United States.

Prisoners in Cuba are incarcerated in the province in which they live. A province is the geographic equivalent to a county as we know it in the United States. This is done to facilitate regular contact between prisoners and their families. This contact is seen as an integral part of the prisoner¹s rehabilitation. Families are incorporated through joint counseling into the rehabilitation process. Each prison is staffed with professionals who are trained to assist the family and the prisoner plan for his or her re-entry into the community. The focus is on rehabilitation as opposed to retribution and punishment.

Prisoners or their families may request conditional liberty passes. These are similar to furloughs and are granted to allow the prisoner to tend to his or a family member’s health. The furlough time is counted as part of the sentence.

Prisoners are not obligated to work. Work is considered a right of the prisoner so that he can earn an income. Prisoners are allowed to work in the same sort of employment as they held prior to their incarceration if it is available at the facility where they are being held. They are compensated for their labor at the same wage that free workers are compensated. They are not charged room and board no matter how much they earn. Similarly, they do not have to pay for their education, medical, dental or hospital care or any other activities they experience. Social security benefits and pensions are available to all prison laborers. In the event of a prisoner’s death, his family will receive his pension. A portion of the prisoner’s earnings is sent to his family. Even if a prisoner does not work, his family will be cared for by the State.

Once a prisoner has served at least half of his sentence he can request a conditional release if he is a first offender. A positive conduct record is the primary factor considered in granting the request for relief. The request for conditional release is made to the sentencing tribunal. The district attorney is given an opportunity to be heard with respect to the request. All prisoners are released after serving two thirds of their sentences.

In 1997 the availability of alternatives to incarceration was expanded to cover all defendants sentenced to up to five years incarceration. Previously these alternatives were only available to defendants sentenced to up to three years. The expansion of the availability of alternatives to incarceration to all defendants facing up to five years’ incarceration covered almost 95% of Cuba¹s prisoners. The recidivism rate for those prisoners released pursuant to the use of alternatives to incarceration is less than 15%. These alternatives include a form of probation, conditional release (similar to parole) and suspended sentences.

The conditional release program is very interesting. The defendant lives for twelve days in a residence located near a farm or industrial center. He works at the farm or industrial center during these twelve days. Then he has three days off where he can leave the residence and go home to his family. On the fourth day, the defendant returns to the work site and the residence. The defendant works side by side with non-incarcerated workers who are not informed of his status. He is paid the same wage as his co-workers and is afforded the same benefits and privileges. He works the same shifts and wears civilian clothing. Work alternatives can be revoked if the defendant fails to adhere to the rules and conditions of the program. The sentencing tribunal is informed if the defendant fails to meet the conditions and it can decide to return the defendant to prison.

The goal of the Cuban prison system is to return people to the community as productive contributors as soon as possible. Therefore the focus is not on punishment, but rather on rehabilitation and re-education. Perhaps this goal would be a useful addition to the prison system that has evolved in the United States.

Permission granted by author to post in entirety.

[idwiyo]

123. Very interesting. Thank you for posting it.

[grandpamike1]

48. They have not made

Sense for over 50 years now. I don't know why we pander to a few ex-pat Cubans in Miami who seem to set policy on Cuba. The cold war has been over for generations now except in the minds of a few warriors who still have power in Washington.

[olddad56]

50. while he is at it, how about we close the Gitmo torture chambers.

[gopiscrap]

52. Good for him

[go west young man]

55. Every other country is enjoying the Cuban beaches and nightlife....

yet the US shuts itself out. One seriously stupid policy. A policy that is only in effect to serve the Cuban hierarchy that got the boot when Castro came up. If those "haves' got Cuba back on their terms they would just take from the poor again. Hence Ileana_Ros-Lehtinen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ileana_Ros-Lehtinen who is the daughter of one of those business men that lost their wealth during the revolution. She continues the fight against normal relations with Cuba because she is holding out for getting the family fortune back for her father Enrique Ros http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrique_Ros

[Uncle Joe]

56. Kicked & recommended.

Thanks for the thread, IDemo.

[olddad56]

60. Lets just say current US policy doesn't make sense.

[pothos]

61. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz

She was on Real Time last week saying that we in no way should change the embargo or our relationship with Cuba.

Guess she didn't get the memo.

[donheld]

62. The US Policy towards Drones doesn't make sense either, but

I digress.

[King_Klonopin]

64. I'm selfish. I just want the stogies.

[Judi Lynn]

66. rticle on the official book readers in Cuban cigar-making factories:

Page last updated at 17:57 GMT, Thursday, 10 December 2009
Reading while rolling Cuba's famous cigars


How cigars are produced in Cuba

Despite a slump in sales due to the recession, Cuba continues to be the world's largest producer of cigars. Could its success be due to cigar factory readers? BBC correspondent in Havana, Michael Voss, finds out.


[font size=1]
News in the morning, novels in the
afternoon[/font]

The air in H Upmann's cigar factory in Havana's Vedado district is thick with the sweet pungent smell of tobacco.

It's hot and humid. There is no air conditioning because that would dry out the precious leaves.

In the long main galley, row upon row of workers sit side by side on long wooden benches - dozens of men and women all rolling cigar after cigar.

Producing Cuba's famous handmade cigars is a highly skilled but monotonous job which demands concentration.

There's no time for chatting to workmates - quotas must be met.

At the front of the room there's a raised platform where a lone figure sits in front of a microphone, reading out loud the official state newspaper Granma.

Instead of canned music, many cigar factories in Cuba still rely on the ancient tradition of employing a reader to help workers pass away the day.

Gricel Valdes-Lombillo, a matronly former school teacher, has been this factory's official reader for the past 20 years.

In the morning she goes through the state-run newspaper Granma cover to cover.

Later in the day she returns to the platform to read a book.

It's a job Gricel Valdes-Lombillo claims she has never tired of.

"I feel useful as a person, giving everyone a bit of knowledge and culture.

More:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8406641.stm

[King_Klonopin]

110. Cool story, thanks.

I had a Spanish professor who was from Cuba and he always had
a cigar in his hand or in his mouth, even if it was not lit up. He was
one of the nicest people I have ever known. Cigars are part of Cuban
culture, but I'm sure cigar rolling is hard, monotonous work.

It is so stupid to have these people on a "national enemies list."

If Cuban cigars were sold in the U.S., I would probably be broke
and have mouth cancer.

[Paladin]

83. +1. (nt)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

96. When we went, they told us there were three things we could not bring back:

1. Cuban cigars
2. Cuban rum
3. Cuban coffee

Occasionally we ran into people trying to sell cigars, but they backed off when we explained that we were norteamericanos.

[Hekate]

65. It's time. Now if Congress isn't stalled by Rubio and Cruz...

... Not to mention the Tea Partiers, we might actually see this get done in Obama's second term!

[Judi Lynn]

68. It wouldn't happen under Hillary Clinton: her brother, Hugh, is married to an "exile"

who is very active in the Miami "exile" community.

She has been a powerful South Florida ally to them during their campaigns, and the official "exile" position on the embargo is inflexible. They control Florida politics, and apparently, through control of the Florida House of Representatives, control of the slate of 29 electors at Presidential election time.

All Presidential candidates streak to South Florida during their campaigns to be seen drinking Cuban coffee at the Versailles Café with Miami politicians, to do some exhausting bowing and scraping to them, along with a lot of other national politicians.

Disgusting.

[Sunlei]

75. Pres. O is right. Congress needs to free Cuba and give them Gitmo buildings too. Save the USA $$$$

[L0oniX]

82. Well isn't that special.

What threat is Cuba? This is pure punitive punishment and that is all it is and that's all it ever has been.

[Paper Roses]

94. Cuba embardo is looooong overdue. n/t

[tclambert]

104. Hey, it's only been 52 years. That embargo may work . . . any day now.

[Major Hogwash]

105. I agree, it's long overdue.

We don't treat any other country the same way now that we did back in 1962, so it doesn't make any sense to have the same policy towards Cuba.

[spike91nz]

107. he forgets about the mob connection

The position of the US with respect to Cuba only makes sense to me when one factors in Meyer Lansky, "Lucky" Luciano and the mob connection with the Batista government. They appear to have a very long memory.

[Scuba]

111. About time!

[Sunlei]

119. we miss out on a lot of trade and people want to visit Cuba and fly direct from Miami.

I've flown in planes to South America and they fly right over Cuba on the way from Miami.