U.S. Flies B-52s Through China’s Expanded Air Defense Zone

[onehandle]

Last edited Tue Nov 26, 2013, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: New York Times

WASHINGTON — Two long-range American bombers have conducted what Pentagon officials described Tuesday as a routine training mission through international air space recently claimed by China as its “air defense identification zone.”

The Chinese government said Saturday that it has the right to identify, monitor and possibly take military action against aircraft that enter the area, which includes sea and islands also claimed by Japan. The claim threatens to escalate an already tense dispute over some of the maritime territory.

American officials said the pair of B-52s carried out a mission that had been planned long in advance of the Chinese announcement this past weekend, and that the United States military would continue to assert its right to fly through what it regards as international air space.

Pentagon officials said the two bombers made a round-trip flight from Guam, passing through a zone that covers sea and islands that are the subject of a sovereignty dispute between Japan and China.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/27/world/asia/us-flies-b-52s-into-chinas-expanded-air-defense-zone.html

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Ruh-roh.

[Blue_Tires]

1. Isn't this just an exercise??

[corkhead]

2. hopefully it wasn't to take them to a "black site"

[groundloop]

3. Here's an article I found that explains what's going on

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/china/131126/china-s-dangerous-new-air-defense-zone-explained

In a nutshell China declared an air defense zone which includes two islands that are controlled by Japan.

[Lasher]

45. Japan's air defense exclusion zone also includes those islands.

Since China also claims the islands, it doesn't seem so radical of them to have also declared a zone that encompasses them.

[Agnosticsherbet]

4. China is trying to strenghten a territorial claim to these rocks.

Japan also has an valid historical claim to them.

If the world allows China to treat these rocks as territory, it becomes a fact.

This was the American way of saying, you don't own these rocks or the possible energy sources in the ocean beneath it.

[NYC_SKP]

5. "You cross this line, you die!"

Flashback

[BumRushDaShow]

6. A little saber-rattling before the holiday. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

7. Or stated another way...

US flies B52 through Japanese airspace with their permission.

[Posteritatis]

23. Much better (and more accurate) way to describe it. (nt)

[Comrade Grumpy]

8. I just hope those B-52 weren't emitting any vapors.

[TwilightGardener]

9. China decided we have to ask permission first and identify ourselves, over international waters.

So we said, fuck you. Of course, this was part of a planned exercise, but still...the fuck-you stands.

[Lasher]

10. Yes, it was our move.

Pretty much have to do something like that and keep it up.

[Posteritatis]

22. Yep. It's the only acceptable response in that situation. (nt)

[ConcernedCanuk]

11. Careful USA . . . be very careful.

.
.
.

You want China flying it's bombers off YOUR coasts?

What could stop China from legally deploying an Aircraft carrier outside International Waters off San Diego's coast?

Or putting bases in Cuba, Canada and Mexico . . . .

I remember when the USA freaked out when China shot down a satellite (it's own) awhile back.

WHY did the USA freak out?

Because they now know that China has the capability to shoot down satellites - USA's targeting system runs off satellites, right?

The moneychangers decided to take advantage of China's cheap labor and had much of their high tech stuff produced there.

Ya think the Chinese didn't learn anything?

Think again.

CC

[hack89]

13. We "freaked" out because they violated international law

and unilaterally claimed international airspace as Chinese. By law, if such claims are not challenged then they become valid.

We would not freak if Chinese aircraft carriers were off the coast of America - we lived with Soviet warships and planes off the coast of America for decades. It is perfectly legal to do so

[Octafish]

14. Like the time China attacked Iraq just because they could.

Killed a million Iraqis, too. Tore up the oil contracts. And, to this day, no one has held the Chinese to account for their war of agression. Not one Chinese leader went to prison -- they just kept on living their lives in peace like there was nothing wrong.

[hack89]

15. I think you meant Tibet? Or perhaps Vietnam? Or was it Arunachal Pradesh?

Chinese history can be confusing.

[Octafish]

18. Tibet!

You are correct. Iraq was that other country.

[jberryhill]

26. WHY did the USA freak out?

Because there is an international agreement on the use of weapons in space.

There is no international agreement recognizing exclusive Chinese sovereignty over this airspace.

And, yes, China can park its vessels in any international waters it likes, and so may we. What neither side can do is to make territorial claims unilaterally.

[MyNameGoesHere]

12. The empire must

keep exerting its presence.

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. Worked pretty well for England!

.
.
.

oh

wait a minute . . . .



CC

[hack89]

17. I wouldn't call the Chinese an empire

if they were, countries would actually listen to them when they pull stupid stunts like this.

[MyNameGoesHere]

19. Yeah you got the wrong empire

We were the ones that showed them our empirical dominance.

[hack89]

20. The Chinese are empire wanna be's

they want to relive their "glorious" past.

[Act_of_Reparation]

21. "Empirical dominance"?

I would ask what on Earth you're talking about, but as I'm all out of whisky I'll have to take a rain check.

[MyNameGoesHere]

24. Well

So we had to send 2 strategic bombers did we? We couldn't have sent a unarmed transport? Just more empire bs. We own the world. Who the hell cares about a couple rocks in the middle of nowhere? File a flight plan and send ID info. Big effing deal. It is Japan's and China's mess, let them deal with it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

29. I don't think "empirical" means what you think it means

The word you're searching for is "Imperial".

Who the hell cares about a couple rocks in the middle of nowhere?

China and Japan certainly do.

File a flight plan and send ID info.

Not going to happen, and here's why:

It is Japan's and China's mess, let them deal with it.

And as a military ally of Japan, it is our obligation to respect their territorial claims, within reason.

So no, it isn't a simple matter of filing flight plans and ID tags. It is about backing our allies, and combating the precedent that any country, at any time, can unilaterally expand their airspace over disputed territories. Today, it is a couple of rocks. Tomorrow, it could be Taiwan.

And no, this isn't going to start a fucking war. The Chinese couldn't possibly have expected this to work, and they aren't so stupid as to pick a fight with their largest trading partner. This is typical saber-rattling. Both sides have done worse things with few tangible repercussions.

[MyNameGoesHere]

39. On the first point thanks

on your other points you're still wrong.
There is not one reason in the world to get involved in this. It is NOT our concern. We are not being threatened, there is no strategic value, and it is a regional pissing match. I do not wish to fight a new cold war with China. Let Asia figure this out, and let's keep our arrogant snouts out of it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

42. I find this position rather amusing.

The world is round, dawg. And it is a lot smaller than it was a hundred years ago. There are no localized issues anymore. This isn't an "Asian problem". China has claimed authority over what is recognized to be international airspace. It doesn't belong to China or Japan or the United States, it belongs to everyone. China's move affects everyone traveling through the region, and sets the dangerous precedent that any country, at any time, for whatever reason, can unilaterally encroach upon international territories.

You say you oppose imperialism, but you don't seem to recognize it when it is staring you right in the face.

And your doomsaying isn't any less obtuse. China has been caught red-handed hiring hackers to break into American governmental and financial computer systems. An American spy plane has been shot down over China. You think our refusal to recognize a flimsy-ass claim to international airspace is somehow worse than either of these instances? You think this is really going to make China reconsider their multi-billion dollar trade relationship with the United States?

Nothing came of that. Nothing will come of this. If we refuse to recognize China's claim, the Chinese will just have to scratch their heads and figure out some other way of exerting their will upon the Asian community. If we shut up and recognize it, as you say, then the international community will never get that airspace back, and Asia will start to look a little more like Eastern Europe under Putin.

[MyNameGoesHere]

43. Dawg?

What are you 10?

[Act_of_Reparation]

44. With a vocabulary as demonstrably expansive as your own...

...I assumed you would know sarcasm when you saw it. Apparently, I was wrong.

But hey, I get it... reading is hard work.

Now, if you have absolutely nothing further to contribute to this discussion--which you clearly do not--you'll have to excuse me. I have better things to do than play the part of a living dictionary for (presumably) grown adults.

[Stella_Artois]

35. Yes, two appropriate aircraft were sent

With appropriate equipment that would allow them to detect and possibly even defeat a Chinese attack via electronic means should some over excited Chinese missile jockey make a terrible mistake. If it came to it, with the correct escape equipment should the worst happen. Transport aircraft don't have such things and it wouldn't be fair to the crews of those aircraft to send them into this situation while the tools for the job sit on the ground, with their combat trained crews.

I'm sure plenty of people would be very upset if 3 US service people were sent to their deaths in a transport aircraft while a B52 could have got away unharmed, or the crew at least.

[MyNameGoesHere]

37. Military transport have warning systems

too. And yes they have counter measures. Your assumptions are wrong and I will take my 10 years experience of Naval Avionics experience over your assumptions any day.

This was nothing more than cold war style of escalation and chest thumping. It isn't even our concern. This is a regional issue and we don't need to stick our arrogant noses in it.

[stevenleser]

40. No, I am former USAF, you are wrong. The B-52's are many times more survivable and have

many more countermeasures than transports. The B-52s are meant to have the ability to penetrate high threat environments virtually on their own.

Transports are not meant to do that.

[MyNameGoesHere]

41. Of course

but you pretended that transports, which TRANSPORT people and equipment are sitting ducks. That is false and you know it. And another thing, suggesting a lumbering B-52 is capable of evading a SAM launch is laughable. They may evade for a few minutes but they are going down. It's a numbers game, I can launch more weapons than their counter measures can handle. You are just a hawk that never left the Military. I know your type.

Sending a strategic bomber is just a way to escalate. Plain and simple, you and our military still want or need a cold war.

[WallaceRitchie]

25. Aircraft carrier

CNN just had a teaser for this story, and concluded it with "China sets an aircraft carrier in motion"... as if this is some escalating threat.

Untold story: China has only one aircraft carrier. It departed for its first-ever sea trials in the SOUTH (not East) China Sea today.

[neverforget]

31. And the Chinese have a long way to go before they are proficient at carrier operations

and integrating them into a naval strategy.

[Democracyinkind]

27. Silly games, no one willing to quit playing.

Decidedly August 1914-ish.

[FreakinDJ]

28. B52 symbolic of a Nuclear Strike

[davidpdx]

30. The deal is that China is declaring air space that is disputed as their own and then imposing

fly over rules without any authority to do so. It is possible they could also do this by moving the boundaries of waterways as well, which would limit ships and planes. China has made claims to land and sea way outside what is recognized. I've heard Chinese claim part or all of Korea belongs to China. I certainly wouldn't take the threat for granted.

[jsr]

33. The East China Sea belongs to China the way the Gulf of Mexico belongs to Mexico

It's ludicrous.

[davidpdx]

34. I agree

As I said some even believe parts of Korea belong to China. I'd hate to know what they really think is theirs. It would probably be half of Asia.

[jsr]

32. Japanese planes are doing it too

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/27/us-china-defense-usa-idUSBRE9AP0X320131127

Defying China, U.S. bombers and Japanese planes fly through new air zone
By Tim Kelly and Phil Stewart
TOKYO/WASHINGTON Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:40am EST

(Reuters) - Two unarmed U.S. B-52 bombers on a training mission flew over disputed islands in the East China Sea without informing Beijing while Japan's main airlines also ignored Chinese authorities when their planes passed through a new airspace defense zone on Wednesday.

The defiance from Japan and its ally the United States raises the stakes in a territorial standoff between Beijing and Tokyo over the islands and challenges China to make the next move, experts said.

China published coordinates for an East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone over the weekend and warned it would take "defensive emergency measures" against aircraft that failed to identify themselves properly in the airspace. The zone is about two thirds the size of Britain.

"If the United States conducts two or three more flights like this, China will be forced to respond. If China can only respond verbally it would be humiliating," said Sun Zhe, a professor at the Center for U.S.-China Relations at Tsinghua University in Beijing.

[Bonobo]

38. "If the US conducts two or three more flights like this, China will be forced to respond..."

LOL. What kind of doofuses make a threat saying "two or three times..."

[Eugene]

36. China 'monitored' US bombers in new air zone

Source: BBC

27 November 2013 Last updated at 10:03 GMT

China 'monitored' US bombers in new air zone

China monitored the flight of two US bombers that flew across its newly-declared "air defence identification zone", its defence ministry said.

The B-52 planes flew over disputed islands in the East China Sea on Tuesday without announcing themselves, defying new Chinese air defence rules.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]

"China's air force monitored the entire course (of the US bombers), identified them in a timely way, and ascertained the type of US aircraft," the statement said.

"China will identify all aircraft activity in East China Sea Air Defence Identification Zone", it added. "China has the ability to effectively manage and control the relevant air zone."

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-25099123