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Psephos

(8,032 posts)
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 02:31 AM Dec 2013

No security ever built into Obamacare site: Hacker

Source: CNBC

It could take a year to secure the risk of "high exposures" of personal information on the federal Obamacare online exchange, a cybersecurity expert told CNBC on Monday.

"When you develop a website, you develop it with security in mind. And it doesn't appear to have happened this time," said David Kennedy, a so-called "white hat" hacker who tests online security by breaching websites. He testified on Capitol Hill about the flaws of HealthCare.gov last week. "It's really hard to go back and fix the security around it because security wasn't built into it," said Kennedy, chief executive of TrustedSec. "We're talking multiple months to over a year to at least address some of the critical-to-high exposures on the website itself."

<snip>

Last month, a Sept. 27 government memorandum surfaced in which two HHS officials said the security of the site had not been properly tested before it opened, creating "a high risk." HHS had explained then that steps were taken to ease security concerns after the memo was written, and that consumer information was secure. Technicians fixed a security bug in the password reset function in late October, the agency said.

But on CNBC, Kennedy disputed those claims, saying vulnerabilities remain on "everything from hacking someone's computer so when you visit the website it actually tries to hack your computer back, all the way to being able to extract email addresses, users names—first name, last name—[and] locations."

Read more: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101225308



If this is true, it seems probable that someone with a political agenda against ACA will exploit it, and publicize it.
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
No security ever built into Obamacare site: Hacker (Original Post) Psephos Dec 2013 OP
How convenient of Mr. Hacker SoapBox Dec 2013 #1
Those deadbolts won't stop me: Lowlife thief CorrectOfCenter Dec 2013 #2
Who pays him to do this? mwrguy Dec 2013 #3
Who pays him to foment fear or who pays him to hack healthcare.gov? Fridays Child Dec 2013 #6
Both n/t mwrguy Dec 2013 #12
There are lots of people who only know how to say "Hooray for our guy!" Mysterysouppe Dec 2013 #29
wouldn't you rather know? Tunkamerica Dec 2013 #8
He has his own company NoOneMan Dec 2013 #13
How desperate are they tblue Dec 2013 #4
Excuse me if I'm having a little trouble Control-Z Dec 2013 #5
I call major bullshit. defacto7 Dec 2013 #7
I know nothing about this guy NoOneMan Dec 2013 #14
+1 newfie11 Dec 2013 #16
+1 RoccoR5955 Dec 2013 #22
Government sites tend to be some of the worst when it comes to security. Xithras Dec 2013 #27
Paid con? See some of the posts by IT people in this thread. Mysterysouppe Dec 2013 #30
I am an IT guy... 30 years. Mostly security. defacto7 Dec 2013 #33
October article from Mother Jones on the security issue... PoliticAverse Dec 2013 #9
Sounds Like Assumptions DallasNE Dec 2013 #10
Fully agree with your post. SoapBox Dec 2013 #11
'In fact, part of the code I've seen was written in Muslim. Secret Muslim code.' byronius Dec 2013 #15
BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!! more negativity now that the website is working bigdarryl Dec 2013 #17
Dismissing these concerns out-of-hand is naive. Scuba Dec 2013 #18
nah, it's knee jerk partisanship. and it's no more intelligent when dems do it than when cali Dec 2013 #19
Did you read the MJ article? After 30 years in IT, I take security seriously .... Scuba Dec 2013 #20
Dave Kennedy has real security creds and skilla Paulie Dec 2013 #21
The RW pivot from various kinds of 'ACA disaster' to 'website insecurity' happened last week, when wiggs Dec 2013 #23
Doesn't matter, the goverment have the NSA. mwooldri Dec 2013 #24
Really RobinA Dec 2013 #25
"probable that someone with a political agenda against ACA will exploit it, and publicize it." geek tragedy Dec 2013 #26
Care to explain that? n/t Psephos Dec 2013 #28
That was my worry customerserviceguy Dec 2013 #31
enrollment is thru March'14..... why apply now? quadrature Dec 2013 #32

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
1. How convenient of Mr. Hacker
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 02:37 AM
Dec 2013

to show up on CNBC...and, he testified? Who called him in? Issa?

I would rather hear from somebody else.

Fridays Child

(23,998 posts)
6. Who pays him to foment fear or who pays him to hack healthcare.gov?
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 03:15 AM
Dec 2013

Keep people afraid and ignorant. It should be the Republican motto.

 

Mysterysouppe

(68 posts)
29. There are lots of people who only know how to say "Hooray for our guy!"
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 03:11 PM
Dec 2013

No matter what he does, or whether his ideas work.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
4. How desperate are they
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 03:11 AM
Dec 2013

to make the ACA fail? Geez. So much energy wasted bringing it down. Don't they have better things to do?

Granted, the system requires a secure site but, since you no longer have to submit your medical history to get insurance, I'm not as worried.

Can we please just let the thing get its sea legs and before we decide it can never work and demolish it?

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
5. Excuse me if I'm having a little trouble
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 03:13 AM
Dec 2013

buying his expert opinion. The real question should be who asked him.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
7. I call major bullshit.
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 03:21 AM
Dec 2013

The guy is a paid con hired to make a speech to titillate the unthinking. I'm sure there are those gullible enough to take it hook line and sinker. I'm also sure there are weak places; there are weak places in most computers on the planet and all the computers in Internet land, but this guy wreaks of payola.

The only people I trust less than Internet crooks are Internet security company front men. BS!

 

NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)
14. I know nothing about this guy
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 04:47 AM
Dec 2013

But I know quite a bit about IT security, so I cannot fathom how the premise of this story can simply be bullshit. Web applications with a decade of development history deal with exploits quite commonly.

He posted a screenshot of some python scripts (which could do nothing but echo out content) that supposedly interface with the provider web services to extract user data:



I've mined data off government websites (public data mind you) by coming up with the proper requests and plugging in automatically incrementing id's (instead of hashes) to extract data quickly, up to millions of records. If their webservices did not require authentication and were using SOAP protocol (likely), he could easily have requested info if an increment id was the sole request parameter.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
27. Government sites tend to be some of the worst when it comes to security.
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 02:14 PM
Dec 2013

Speaking as someone who spent a large part of his career writing software for the government as a consultant, I've seen some real horror stories. Generally speaking, web services (such as the one this guy is citing) tend to be the biggest problem across the board. I've seen sites that bend over backwards to secure the web frontend site (the part everyone sees), which then leave the backend services clear. I was once called in to rewrite and secure a SOAP architecture that actually allowed anyone to query ANYTHING about a user based on their social security number. A simple script could have iterated through all 1.1 billion social security numbers in only a few days time, extracting everything from tax records to financial data (the site dealt with unemployment insurance, and had all sorts of valuable data in it). There was no authentication for the web service whatsoever, and no encryption on the connection once it was established. The original writers simply assumed that nobody would ever find it.

Part of the problem is that enterprise web technology has fully embraced SOA, and yet a LOT of developers still don't know how to properly secure and authenticate SOAP and REST calls between the presentation layer and the transactional servers. They started programming in a world where you did the processing on your web server directly and security between the layers usually wasn't a consideration. For many of those developers, it's still a bit of an afterthought.

It sounds like the guy in the OP found the Healthcare.Gov site doing the same thing. It's not a slight against this site in particular, but is simply indicative of the kinds of problems we often see in government sites (and hurriedly built SOA sites in general).

 

Mysterysouppe

(68 posts)
30. Paid con? See some of the posts by IT people in this thread.
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 03:13 PM
Dec 2013

And by the way, it's "reeks," not "wreaks."

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
33. I am an IT guy... 30 years. Mostly security.
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 06:37 PM
Dec 2013

Doesn't mean I can't learn something but at this point I stand by my statement. And that's a s far as I'm going with it.

The word is wreaks... as in wreak havoc... I wasn't referring to smells.

DallasNE

(7,404 posts)
10. Sounds Like Assumptions
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 03:40 AM
Dec 2013

Unless he has visited the actual code, especially the claim that the fix of a security bug in the password reset remains vulnerable. Also the source, CNBC, is suspect. Encrypting key data like Social Security number surely wouldn't take anything like a year to fix. Indeed, this kind of security is so obvious I would think it would have been part of what was installed over the last two months. Indeed, I have little use for experts making wild claims without being hands-on. How much did CNBC pay this "expert" to say these things?

byronius

(7,410 posts)
15. 'In fact, part of the code I've seen was written in Muslim. Secret Muslim code.'
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 05:20 AM
Dec 2013

'My special decoder ring, however, could see right through their sinister machinations.'

Somebody call Buck Rogers! His publicist is on the teevee! Wait, that's him! Only he can help save us from Fu Manbama!

God this shit is boring. Boring Boring Boring BORING. Stupid. Boring.

 

bigdarryl

(13,190 posts)
17. BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!! more negativity now that the website is working
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 07:17 AM
Dec 2013

So I guess this is the next talking point.I've never seen so much interest in a website failing

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
19. nah, it's knee jerk partisanship. and it's no more intelligent when dems do it than when
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 07:54 AM
Dec 2013

repukes do.

it's kind of you to attribute it to people merely being naive, but it's pretty clear that that's not it.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
20. Did you read the MJ article? After 30 years in IT, I take security seriously ....
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 07:57 AM
Dec 2013

... and I have good reason to believe the private corporation that built the website wanted it to fail.

Paulie

(8,462 posts)
21. Dave Kennedy has real security creds and skilla
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 08:12 AM
Dec 2013

He's well known for SET, the Social Engineering Toolkit and a hacker convention called DerbyCon.

But he has a huge blind spot; he leans very right and hates Obama. So that he's hanging out with the Republics and sowing FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) is not surprising at all.

He is correct that you want to have security as an overriding design goal, beyond best practices in coding, from day one but that rarely happens from day one in the real world. Especially with a gov contract made up of the lowest bidders.

As of this point I haven't heard any stories of a breech of healthcare.gov or the exchange sites. Given all the attention surely someone on the planet with skills has done a recon and tried....

wiggs

(7,820 posts)
23. The RW pivot from various kinds of 'ACA disaster' to 'website insecurity' happened last week, when
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 11:32 AM
Dec 2013

Fox began having all kinds of security experts express concern on multiple shows. They are running out of ACA bad news they can sell 24/7, so this is it. This is the current focus.

It may very well be that the website isn't as secure as could be. How many websites are? What kind of information is at risk that isn't already at risk a hundred times over?

Somewhere along the way, I hope more and more people realize that if if it's on FOX it's automatically questionable.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
24. Doesn't matter, the goverment have the NSA.
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 12:04 PM
Dec 2013

IMO all security is breached anyway. Most secure network I know of right now is the sneaker-net. Or paper & ink.

I'm positive that there are security issues with healthcare.gov but there's holes everywhere. The Wordpress site I run has a plugin that alerts me to any possible breaches (usually plugin updates). And that's just my little ol' site!

RobinA

(9,903 posts)
25. Really
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 01:47 PM
Dec 2013

I and a family member got caught up in the Adobe hack. I'm sure that site was designed "with security in mind." Didn't make a helluva difference.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
26. "probable that someone with a political agenda against ACA will exploit it, and publicize it."
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 01:54 PM
Dec 2013

The OP proves that point.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
31. That was my worry
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 05:14 PM
Dec 2013

when all of the quick fixes were being made over the last month or so. It takes time to test websites, especially for security.

The thing that would absolutely kill Healthcare.gov is if public trust in it is destroyed. Our reich-wing enemies would celebrate if they saw stories of identity and bank fraud from the ACA website.

 

quadrature

(2,049 posts)
32. enrollment is thru March'14..... why apply now?
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 05:39 PM
Dec 2013

unless you plan to drop dead in the next few months,

I would suggest waiting until
the security issues are investigated.
You can see a lot just by looking.

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