Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Redfairen

(1,276 posts)
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:32 PM Dec 2013

Teen pot use could hurt brain and memory, new research suggests

Source: NBC News

Teenage pot smokers could be damaging brain structures critical to memory and reasoning, according to new research that found changes in the brains of heavy users.

Research released Monday in the journal Schizophrenia Bulletin showed the brains of young heavy marijuana users were altered in so-called sub-cortical regions — primitive structures that are part of the memory and reasoning circuits. And young people with such alterations performed worse on memory tests than non-using controls, despite the fact that the heavy users had not indulged for more than two years, on average, before the testing.

“We see that adolescents are at a very vulnerable stage neurodevelopmentally,” said Matthew Smith, who led the research team at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago. “And if you throw stuff into the brain that’s not supposed to be there, there are long-term implications for their development.”

The portion of people ages 12 to 17 who used marijuana during the past month fell to 9.5 percent last year from almost 12 percent in 2002, according to the latest figures from the government’s Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. But that still represents millions of adolescents and teenagers — and the legalization of marijuana has raised the specter that underage people will have easier access.



Read more: http://m.nbcnews.com/health/teen-pot-use-could-hurt-brain-memory-new-research-suggests-2D11741988

58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Teen pot use could hurt brain and memory, new research suggests (Original Post) Redfairen Dec 2013 OP
So, given this result, which substances are positives? Coyotl Dec 2013 #1
Peabut butter and toast is safe, in moderation /nt Bragi Dec 2013 #3
Without my glasses, I first read that as "and masturbation" deurbano Dec 2013 #5
Also hairy palms /nt Bragi Dec 2013 #15
The pot criminalisation crowd will cheer, but so what Bragi Dec 2013 #2
Previously Discredited billhicks76 Dec 2013 #23
I read it immediately as another scare tactic. As another poster said, it's based RKP5637 Dec 2013 #27
As acknowledged in the article, the evidence is correlational. Jackpine Radical Dec 2013 #4
+1, n/t RKP5637 Dec 2013 #28
" young heavy marijuana users" SCVDem Dec 2013 #6
Exactly, moderation should be stressed! Criminalization is so backward and RKP5637 Dec 2013 #32
"NEW" ??? RitchieRich Dec 2013 #7
So keep imprisoning those teenagers! JackRiddler Dec 2013 #8
Confirms other studies musiclawyer Dec 2013 #9
actually, it doesn't confirm other studies RainDog Dec 2013 #25
This doesn't confirm shite TheSarcastinator Dec 2013 #55
And...what is the precentage of brain damage done by football playing teenagers? Lint Head Dec 2013 #10
Damn, I could have been so much smarter. maxsolomon Dec 2013 #11
Any psychoactive drug will alter the way a brain develops. intaglio Dec 2013 #12
"will have easier access"? eggplant Dec 2013 #13
winner! pipoman Dec 2013 #42
This is a scare piece RainDog Dec 2013 #45
Actually, it doesn't indicate anything. eggplant Dec 2013 #48
can you elaborate? RainDog Dec 2013 #49
I apologize eggplant Dec 2013 #50
okay. I was confused RainDog Dec 2013 #58
More legal, less use. MORE LEGAL, LESS USE! Festivito Dec 2013 #14
It's the same with alcohol... EC Dec 2013 #16
I suggest that pot makes you smarter...... Bennyboy Dec 2013 #18
Right on the money! GliderGuider Dec 2013 #57
Not to advocate pot use for underage kids but what else were the kids... Ganja Ninja Dec 2013 #17
Like... Contact sports? truthisfreedom Dec 2013 #19
Other studies show that pot protects the brain from damage bananas Dec 2013 #31
What the heck is a "heavy user who has not indulged for more than 2 years" ? KurtNYC Dec 2013 #20
You may not like this…but this is really true about these young ones and is beyond sad... Tikki Dec 2013 #21
Who cares , nobody is going to remember this study was even done. Leontius Dec 2013 #22
What study? Inkfreak Dec 2013 #35
Last week a Harvard study indicated NO correlation between Teen use and Schizophrenia RainDog Dec 2013 #24
"Brain structural studies often...capitalize on the ones that are significant by chance" bananas Dec 2013 #26
A larger study from 2011 showed no cognitive harm RainDog Dec 2013 #29
No long-term harm. Igel Dec 2013 #38
Maybe the problem is poverty itself RainDog Dec 2013 #40
I'll say what I always say, if pot gives you schizophrenia, don't smoke pot. tridim Dec 2013 #30
Overview of recent studies RainDog Dec 2013 #33
I forgot why I clicked this link.. Inkfreak Dec 2013 #34
Oops. Maybe this is why my memory is so bad right now at 50-years-old! Maybe I didn't smoke much BigDemVoter Dec 2013 #36
I'm a little teen pot dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #37
You don't want to see my spout! SCVDem Dec 2013 #39
I can't remember if my teenage pot use calguy Dec 2013 #41
So if making it legal pipoman Dec 2013 #43
LOL. I didn't read down the thread RainDog Dec 2013 #46
And something like teens binge drinking is a good thing? n/t freethought Dec 2013 #44
In places with legal cannabis, traffic accidents have decreased RainDog Dec 2013 #47
Portugal 11 years after drug decriminalization kristopher Dec 2013 #51
I agree with this study cap Dec 2013 #52
good! TheSarcastinator Dec 2013 #54
It's the return of Reefer Madness!!! TheSarcastinator Dec 2013 #53
Bullshit! wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #56

deurbano

(2,896 posts)
5. Without my glasses, I first read that as "and masturbation"
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:47 PM
Dec 2013

Which would be "safe''-- except for that going blind thing!

Bragi

(7,650 posts)
2. The pot criminalisation crowd will cheer, but so what
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:42 PM
Dec 2013

Every time a study shows that pot use can be harmful, it is hailed as a rationale for criminalization. However, the real issue isn't about whether pot is safe or unsafe. Pot, like alcohol, can be used in an unsafe manner. The real issue is whether pot criminalization is the best way to control its use and any harm it does, especially among youth.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
23. Previously Discredited
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:11 PM
Dec 2013

The last study these guys did linking childhood schizophrenia to pot use was recently discredited. Too much money behind surpressing the positive uses of marijuana and keeping prisons full of political drug war inmates. The federal government owns the patents on cancer fighting cannabinoids but then denies they fight cancer until the lies don't stand up anymore and they try to cash in? Talk about a mafia.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
27. I read it immediately as another scare tactic. As another poster said, it's based
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:30 PM
Dec 2013

on correlational evidence which IMO can sometimes be fraught with bogus results. ... yet, we see brutalizing teens as criminals to be of little concern.

The US is often, seriously, pretty fucked up, yep, not as bad as some, but still pretty fucked up at times. Sound logic often takes a back seat. I've been listening to this bullshit about pot for so many years.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
4. As acknowledged in the article, the evidence is correlational.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:47 PM
Dec 2013

Certain other things, such as exposure to unusual levels of stress, micht cause both the pot use and the subcortical abnormalities.

In fact, at least one of the brain structures involved, the thalamus, is known to be affected by chronic stress, entirely without any pot usage.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
6. " young heavy marijuana users"
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:48 PM
Dec 2013

The solution never is criminalization or teaching abstinence but teaching moderation in life.

I note the previous responses are also on this train of thought.

musiclawyer

(2,335 posts)
9. Confirms other studies
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 01:30 PM
Dec 2013

So...weed should not legal for teens. Like alcohol. We know that. The legal stated know that. The wave of legalization that will sweep over the western US will simply incorporate the science and refine rules

Drink responsible. Smoke and vape responsibly. That's what we should be teaching our kids

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
25. actually, it doesn't confirm other studies
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:16 PM
Dec 2013

I don't think teenagers should use marijuana, or that it should be available to them to purchase, but this study doesn't confirm studies about mental illness and marijuana.

The vast majority of research (including meta-studies of other research) indicates NO causal relationship for mental illness and humans with the consumption of marijuana unless a person is ALREADY within a subset of people who are at risk for schizo-affective disorders.

Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
10. And...what is the precentage of brain damage done by football playing teenagers?
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 01:53 PM
Dec 2013

18 year old teenagers going to war? How much brain damage is done to children and teenagers by racist and religious indoctrination?
How much....? Oh well.

When a young brain is still developing it's probably not good to instill a mind altering substance into that brain. Do ya think?

maxsolomon

(33,446 posts)
11. Damn, I could have been so much smarter.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 03:07 PM
Dec 2013

I only finished 3rd in my class and got the highest SAT/ACT scores.

But I was never a "heavy user".

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
45. This is a scare piece
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 01:11 AM
Dec 2013

The reality is that since cannabis laws have been softened in state after state, cannabis use by teenagers has dropped during this time.

iow, this indicates that legalizing marijuana or easing restrictions has not resulted in teenage reefer madness.

But, of course, because propaganda rules mainstream media - this reality is ignored because it doesn't fit the prohibitionists' goal.

eggplant

(3,915 posts)
48. Actually, it doesn't indicate anything.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 03:31 AM
Dec 2013

You are arguing that their premise is false because the statistics don't bear out their conclusion, and so you suggest another causal result with just as little data. If they aren't allowed to draw conclusions without actual correlated data, neither are you. Sorry.

That having been said, I totally agree that this is a silly scare piece, and I am a firm believer that legalization and taxation will do wonders for reducing crime and improving the economy. Everyone wins, except for the police (who get huge block grants), the prison guard unions (more prisoners means more jobs), and the private prison owners. Tack on corrupt judges, and you've got quite a cottage industry of fleecing the public to pay to house people whose rights have been trampled.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
49. can you elaborate?
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 05:22 AM
Dec 2013

the premise I mentioned concerned usage by teens - with the legalization of cannabis - and the prediction from the anti-legalization crew was that usage would rise...and the fear that it would rise in other places.

I noted that the prediction had not borne out. I didn't assign a cause to anything - I noted the prediction was false. I didn't draw conclusions about why cannabis use had decreased; I merely noted it had, in contradiction to the prediction.

I am allowed to draw the conclusion that it didn't happen because it didn't.

As was shown here:

the first is a 2011 study that looked at more than a dozen states and found no increased usage

http://ftp.iza.org/dp6112.pdf

These two are from 2009

http://ftp.iza.org/dp6592.pdf

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2012.301117

The following states all indicate decreased use.

California, Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, Maine, Hawaii, Nevada, Colorado, Rhode Island.

The CDC, however, says that marijuana usage has increased since legalization became an more realistic, then actual event - since 2011. I wouldn't be surprised to find that states in which marijuana is legal would report more usage, however, simply because it's no longer illegal to admit to use. Not simply teens - adults as well. By this I mean that adults who had already been consumers of cannabis would admit to it.

One economist who has done a lot of studies about cannabis economics predicts usage will increase with legalization - among adults and teens. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, either, because, at first, legalization would be like the end of prohibition and a lot of people who had formerly used, or who didn't have access (say, some grandma in a retirement home) would try it or celebrate the legality.

However, the reality is that teen usage dropped as medical marijuana became available in most all states where this has been law. Whether outright legalization will change those numbers - who knows - but for now, easier availability has not coincided with increased usage, over many, many years.

which, again, disproves the claim that usage would rise with quasi-legal cannabis.

eggplant

(3,915 posts)
50. I apologize
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:23 AM
Dec 2013

In rereading your post I see where I conflated the two statements. You aren't commenting that the negative was true (that legalization caused usage drop) but only that the original statement was false (that legalization did not cause usage increase).

Sorry, my bad.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
58. okay. I was confused
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:30 PM
Dec 2013

I didn't read anything I wrote that the quasi-legalization caused anything... but I thought... maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Festivito

(13,452 posts)
14. More legal, less use. MORE LEGAL, LESS USE!
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 03:31 PM
Dec 2013

And the rest of the implications of that article look more like a joke.

Ain't-supposed-to-be-there STUFF, COULD BE (affecting), "neurodevelopementally" vulnerable young brains. Because young brains are vulnerable to "stuff"... STUFF!

Furthermore canibanoids are something the brain does generate and need. It is supposed to be there.

... Dippy conservative buffoons!

EC

(12,287 posts)
16. It's the same with alcohol...
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 04:04 PM
Dec 2013

the brain isn't fully developed until around 20 -21 or so. Any drug would arrest development I would expect.

 

Bennyboy

(10,440 posts)
18. I suggest that pot makes you smarter......
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 04:34 PM
Dec 2013

In fact I know it does. I puffed at a young age and after that i got stoned again and again.



What was I saying? (Get the gratuitous stoner joke out of the way).


When i got high, I got into things. things that wouldn't even have come into my life had I not. Music especially, I never got into it and my whole idea of music changed when I started to get high. I moved from the Beau Brummels and the Dave Clark Five to the MC5 and the Grateful Dead. So did the Beatles.

In fact I submit to you that the one single most important moment in music history is when Bob Dylan got the Beatles stoned for the first time. All of a sudden, it went from "I wanna hold your hand" to "I crawled off to sleep in the bath". Rock became literate. BOOM, all of sudden the lyrics took on a literary tone. And everyone was getting high and everyone was writing crazy words and getting high and creating the music that has endured forever and ever.

No I find people that do not smoke weed to be less interesting as people that do. Not as well read, not as artsy, less music in their daily lives and no playing music daily....People that don't get high tend to watch a lot more TV, get their news from the TV mostly and don't think anywhere near the outside of the box.

I also find that people that get high are more liberal leaning and have a far greater grasp of the complexities of the problems we face.

the truth is, outside of politics and sports (and even then) of all the thinkers and doers of the past 100 years or so, most have a drug history. Poe had one, Coltrane had one, and Jerry Garcia had one. Bob Marley had one. Justin Beiber has one. Cy young award winning pitchers have one and the guy who won the most gold medals in OLYMPICS history has one.


Bill Gates had one and Steve Jobs (taking LSD was the most important thing I ever did) had one.

You can't get there from anywhere else, it is a portal to seeing things and thinking about things completely...Only a couple of people come to mind that don't have a drug history like that in the creative realm. Springsteen and Frank Zappa. Don't know how they do that but they managed to do it.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
57. Right on the money!
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 04:38 PM
Dec 2013

I lived through the same period, did the same stuff, and saw the same things happen.

Over on FB I've been finding that all the people who Get What's Happening at the deepest level are always former and current stoners. It's all about the openness to ideas and experiences.

Weed, acid and Alan Watts - what a magical combination for untying the "straight"-jacket

Ganja Ninja

(15,953 posts)
17. Not to advocate pot use for underage kids but what else were the kids...
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 04:17 PM
Dec 2013

in this study using besides pot? Did they really find a group of heavy marijuana using kids that didn't drink or take any other drugs? Did they have any data on the pot they smoked and its purity or potency?

This is why I'm skeptical of studies like this because I seriously doubt the legitimacy of a study that doesn't tightly monitor both groups and the substance being used. Unless these kids are getting their pot from a lab in documented amounts you can't make any accurate claims.

bananas

(27,509 posts)
31. Other studies show that pot protects the brain from damage
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:33 PM
Dec 2013

so maybe pot should be required for contact sports?

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
20. What the heck is a "heavy user who has not indulged for more than 2 years" ?
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 04:54 PM
Dec 2013

People believe this egg-in-a-frying-pan stuff because they want to. Not because it is any kind of definitive science.

They found "changes" ? They didn't look at the same people over a period of years, only 2 groups and only one time -- how does one find a change without having 2 data points? Even those lying weight loss ads use 2 points -- before and after.

Super small sample size and stacked with non-users:

>>The research at Northwestern University in Illinois tested 44 non-using healthy people in their 20s and compared them with 10 young people with a history of cannabis use.<<

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2524536/Teenagers-smoke-cannabis-poor-memory-abnormal-brain-structures.html#ixzz2nfoCTBHt

Tikki

(14,560 posts)
21. You may not like this…but this is really true about these young ones and is beyond sad...
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 05:06 PM
Dec 2013

You've run into them while you're out and about. You've talked to them. You know who is being talked about here.

And a mind is truly a terrible thing to waste.


Tikki

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
24. Last week a Harvard study indicated NO correlation between Teen use and Schizophrenia
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:12 PM
Dec 2013

The link for teens is only found among teens whose family members have a history of schizo-affective disorders.

http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964(13)00610-5/abstract

Results
There was an increased morbid risk for schizophrenia in relatives of the cannabis using and non-using patient samples compared with their respective non-psychotic control samples (p=.002, p<.001 respectively). There was no significant difference in morbid risk for schizophrenia between relatives of the patients who use or do not use cannabis (p=.43).

Conclusions
The results of the current study suggest that having an increased familial morbid risk for schizophrenia may be the underlying basis for schizophrenia in cannabis users and not cannabis use by itself.


I wonder if this study is in response to that one, which, btw, GOT NO NEWS COVERAGE from major national news outlets. However, when I googled teens/schizophrenia, this study was all over the place. It was also all over the place when I googled teens NO schizophrenia.

Not to say that teens should use marijuana - that's not the purpose of my post. However, I find it's interesting that major news media sources in the U.S. selectively decide which marijuana stories to tell and which to hide.

They routinely choose to hide those that show no harm from marijuana in and of itself.

Not surprisingly.

The reason I know about this other study is that I read about it last week but didn't bother to post it BECAUSE IT REINFORCES previous meta-data studies that also show no causal link for marijuana and schizophrenia in teenagers that have previously been noted here.

In addition, Roger Pertwee, the leading pharmacologist expert on cannabis in the UK agrees that there is no causal link.

So, this seems to be just more propaganda, timed to hide the study from last week, and timed to try to undermine the recent legalization in Uruquay and the debate this creates.

fwiw. more and more, whenever I see a story from a major news media source in the U.S., I assume it's propaganda. Not just for this issue - for just about anything.

bananas

(27,509 posts)
26. "Brain structural studies often...capitalize on the ones that are significant by chance"
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:23 PM
Dec 2013

From the webmd article on this paper:

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20131216/brain-scan-study-suggests-pothead-stereotype-might-be-real?page=2

<snip>

Dr. Mitch Earleywine, a professor of psychology and director of clinical training at the State University of New York at Albany, agreed that the results need to be replicated.

"Brain structural studies often look at every single spot and then capitalize on the ones that are significant by chance," said Earleywine, author of the book Understanding Marijuana. "We've had no structural deficits in folks who started using as adults, so researchers went to adolescents."

Earleywine said marijuana users have been shown to perform more poorly on memory tests due to the stress they endure taking such tests.

"If you can imagine going into a lab to take a memory test because you've been selected for your cannabis use, then a bevy of white-coated folks who might think that cannabis use impairs memory start giving you memory tests, you might not do so well," he said. "We've found this for males in my lab."

<snip>

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
29. A larger study from 2011 showed no cognitive harm
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:32 PM
Dec 2013

The study in the OP was comprised of 44 people with 10 people as a control. A larger study showed that, when controls for educational level and gender were included, there were no differences.

From 2011-

researchers followed nearly 2,000 young Australian adults for eight years and found that marijuana has little long-term effect on learning and memory— and any cognitive damage that does occur as a result of cannabis use is reversible.

Participants were aged 20-24 at the start of the study, which was part of a larger project on community health. Researchers categorized them as light, heavy, former or non-users of cannabis based on their answers to questions about marijuana habits.

...Participants took tests of memory and intelligence three times over the eight year period the study. They were also asked about how their marijuana use had changed. When the results were at last tabulated, researchers found that there were large initial differences between the groups, with the current marijuana smokers performing worse on tests that required them to recall lists of words after various periods of time or remember numbers in the reverse order from the one in which they were presented.

However, when the investigators controlled for factors like education and gender, almost all of these differences disappeared. The lower education levels of the pot smokers — and their greater likelihood of being male — had made it look like marijuana had significantly affected their intelligence. In fact, men simply tend to do worse than women on tests of verbal intelligence, while women generally underperform on math tests. The relative weighting of the tests made the impact of pot look worse than it was.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/07/19/study-marijuana-not-linked-with-long-term-cognitive-impairment/#ixzz2ngR771p5

The conclusion from the researchers was:

The adverse impacts of cannabis use on cognitive functions either appear to be related to pre-existing factors or are reversible in this community cohort even after potentially extended periods of use. These findings may be useful in motivating individuals to lower cannabis use, even after an extensive history of heavy intake.

Igel

(35,383 posts)
38. No long-term harm.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 09:29 PM
Dec 2013

A range of uses, from light to fairly high. The OP's study only looked at heavy use.

However, while there is no long-term cognitive impairment, the 2011 study did find substantial failure to form memories. This failure didn't just occur during the period when the subjects were high, but continued for days. Get high Saturday, and you'll remember much less from classes on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and possibly Thursday. You look back, see the notes you took, the problems you did when your short term memory was still around. But the short-term memories tend not to become long-term memories.

In other words, toke regularly during the fall, and in the spring you find that all that stuff the teacher said you'd need to know you don't know. If the fall curriculum was stressful, trying to play catchup while not falling behind in the spring is even more stressful. You could handle the pot in the fall, your grades didn't suffer much. In the spring, sober, you find yourself overwhelmed. "When did we study this?" "I don't remember that?" "How did we do this?" It's bad for the average kid. But the kid who takes a forgetfulness drug is going to have a rougher time.

Sadly, this disproportionately plagues those kids who are lower income and already at a disadvantage. And puts them at an even greater disadvantage wrt to their peers.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
40. Maybe the problem is poverty itself
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:17 PM
Dec 2013

Recent studies have indicated that poverty itself imposes a huge cognitive load because of the stress of poverty. Since this study noted that economic status and gender are, themselves, factors that weigh on cognition and the type of test - it seems that dealing with poverty, and the potential for arrest for minorities and the poor - which far outweighs the risk for the middle and upper classes, would have widespread beneficial impact.

But... in regard to your statement...

Where is the citation for that? Not to say this study didn't show that, but I was trying to find where the study talked about this.

As I have said repeatedly - I don't think teenagers should have legal access to marijuana and, like alcohol, I think marijuana should be subject to legal age usage - but I find the Spicoli stereotype isn't true, even tho invoked here.

I remember, when I was a kid, a really wealthy kid who smoked pot all the time. Like a chimney. He finally quit, or said he was quitting, when he got accepted to Columbia U. - after attending a private University school with very high standards - but who knows if he did. No doubt his family structure and his financial wealth had some impact on his memory... or not. But those things certainly had an impact upon his prospects for the future, and how he navigated the world.

Even tho I know of hundreds of stories of people who smoked pot all during high school and graduated with honors, or graduated, attended college, now run successful businesses or have other fulfilling, mentally taxing occupations (and some of them still smoke, and did all through college) I don't use them as examples because they're just anecdotal, although I never met a person whose life was harmed by marijuana, other than a jail sentence.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
30. I'll say what I always say, if pot gives you schizophrenia, don't smoke pot.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:33 PM
Dec 2013

An easy decision to make since cannabis isn't physically addictive, like alcohol.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
33. Overview of recent studies
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:40 PM
Dec 2013

Peer-reviewed journal finds no link between cannabis and schizophrenia

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900

This paper investigates whether this (a predicted increase in schizophrenia and/or psychosis among cannabis users) has occurred in the UK by examining trends in the annual prevalence and incidence of schizophrenia and psychoses, as measured by diagnosed cases from 1996 to 2005.

Retrospective analysis of the General Practice Research Database (GPRD) was conducted for 183 practices in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The study cohort comprised almost 600,000 patients each year, representing approximately 2.3% of the UK population aged 16 to 44.

Between 1996 and 2005 the incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia and psychoses were either stable or declining. Explanations other than a genuine stability or decline were considered, but appeared less plausible. In conclusion, this study did not find any evidence of increasing schizophrenia or psychoses in the general population from 1996 to 2005.


Studies that claimed schizophrenia cast in doubt (Sept. 2009):
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/09/01/2673334.htm

Previous research has suggested cannabis use increases the risk of being diagnosed with schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders.

This latest study, led by Dr Martin Frisher of Keele University, examined the records of 600,000 patients aged between 16 and 44, but failed to find a similar link. Frisher and colleagues compared the trends of cannabis use with general practitioner records of schizophrenia.

They argue if cannabis use does cause schizophrenia, then an increase in cannabis use should be followed by an increase in the incidence of schizophrenia. According to the study, cannabis use in the UK between 1972 and 2002 has increased four-fold in the general population, and 18-fold among under-18s.

...But the researchers found no increase in the diagnosis of schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders during that period. In fact some of the data suggested the incidence of these conditions had decreased.

"This study does not therefore support the specific causal link between cannabis use and the incidence of psychotic disorders," the authors say. "This concurs with other reports indicating that increases in population cannabis use have not been followed by increases in psychotic incidence."


Minimal Link Between Psychosis and Marijuana (Oct. 2009):
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091022101538.htm

Scientists from Bristol, Cambridge and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine took the latest information on numbers of cannabis users, the risk of developing schizophrenia, and the risk that cannabis use causes schizophrenia to estimate how many cannabis users may need to be stopped to prevent one case of schizophrenia. The study found it would be necessary to stop 2800 heavy cannabis users in young men and over 5000 heavy cannabis users in young women to prevent a single case of schizophrenia. Among light cannabis users, those numbers rise to over 10,000 young men and nearly 30,000 young women to prevent one case of schizophrenia.


Cannabis-induced schizophrenia is merely schizophrenia (Nov. 2008)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/11/03/us-pot-induced-psychosis-idUSTRE4A26JV20081103?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews&rpc=22&sp=true

In a previous study, Arendt and colleagues found that nearly half of people who had an episode of cannabis-induced psychosis went on to develop schizophrenia within the next six years. In the current study, the researchers looked at the genetic roots of both conditions by comparing the family histories of 609 people treated for cannabis-induced psychosis and 6,476 who had been treated for schizophrenia or a related psychiatric condition.

They found that individuals treated for post-pot smoking psychotic episodes had the same likelihood of having a mother, sister or other "first-degree" relative with schizophrenia as did the individuals who had actually been treated for schizophrenia themselves. This suggests that cannabis-induced psychosis and schizophrenia are one and the same, the researchers note. "These people would have developed schizophrenia whether or not they used cannabis," Arendt explained in comments to Reuters Health.


Based on the findings, the researcher says, "cannabis-induced psychosis is probably not a valid diagnosis. It should be considered schizophrenia."


Roger Pertwee, leading British pharmacologist, says cannabis is not a threat to the general population in regard to schizophrenia. Only those with existing risk factors are at risk.

http://www.britishscienceassociation.org/web/News/FestivalNews/_Rethinkingcannabis.htm

Cannabis is one factor which increases the risk of schizophrenia, but only if it's mixed with a bad childhood environment or a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia.


...and no indication of brain damage with heavy usage (July 2003):
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20030701/heavy-marijuana-use-doesnt-damage-brain

Long-term and even daily marijuana use doesn't appear to cause permanent brain damage, adding to evidence that it can be a safe and effective treatment for a wide range of diseases, say researchers.

The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. Otherwise, scores on thinking tests were similar to those who don't smoke marijuana, according to a new analysis of 15 previous studies.

In those studies, some 700 regular marijuana users were compared with 484 non-users on various aspects of brain function -- including reaction time, language and motor skills, reasoning ability, memory, and the ability to learn new information.

originally posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/117036

BigDemVoter

(4,157 posts)
36. Oops. Maybe this is why my memory is so bad right now at 50-years-old! Maybe I didn't smoke much
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 08:34 PM
Dec 2013

in my teens, but I sure made up for that in my 20s!

calguy

(5,344 posts)
41. I can't remember if my teenage pot use
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:28 PM
Dec 2013

affected my memory or not. Give me a few days........it'll come to me.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
43. So if making it legal
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:49 PM
Dec 2013

provides easier access how has this reduction since 2002 happened. Pot has become far more easily available in many states since 2002 with medical mj laws.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
46. LOL. I didn't read down the thread
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 01:14 AM
Dec 2013

I replied to you, upthread, before I read the rest of this thread - but, exactly - legal or easily available marijuana has not resulted in increases in use among teenagers.

freethought

(2,457 posts)
44. And something like teens binge drinking is a good thing? n/t
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:54 PM
Dec 2013

Kids can get ahold of drugs if they want. You just hope they have some sense and stear clear.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
47. In places with legal cannabis, traffic accidents have decreased
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 01:17 AM
Dec 2013

this decrease is attributed in part to less alcohol use and driving. But the reality is also that drug usage waxes and wanes, even with hard drugs.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/why-medical-marijuana-laws-reduce-traffic-deaths/

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
51. Portugal 11 years after drug decriminalization
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:35 AM
Dec 2013
'This Is Working': Portugal, 12 Years after Decriminalizing Drugs

By Wiebke Hollersen

Twelve years ago, Portugal eliminated criminal penalties for drug users. Since then, those caught with small amounts of marijuana, cocaine or heroin go unindicted and possession is a misdemeanor on par with illegal parking. Experts are pleased with the results...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060.html

cap

(7,170 posts)
52. I agree with this study
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:16 AM
Dec 2013

and I don't think it is bogus but would include prohibition on alcohol for teens 12-17. I also agree that there has been too much scare science with pot. I would not generalize this study to adults.

As with alcohol, all things in moderation. Too much alcohol, not good; too much pot, not good, either.

TheSarcastinator

(854 posts)
53. It's the return of Reefer Madness!!!
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 11:18 AM
Dec 2013

Another "study" that confuses correlation with causation. From the link:

"Smith stressed that it does not prove cause-and-effect, and neither did the PNAS study. The differences in brain geography in Smith’s study could have existed before the young people used weed — it’s possible that their brain differences made them more likely to smoke pot in the first place. "

More bogus propaganda from prohibitionist fear-mongers.

 

wildbilln864

(13,382 posts)
56. Bullshit!
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 11:21 AM
Dec 2013

Marijuana might cause new cell growth in the brain.
"A synthetic chemical similar to the active ingredient in marijuana makes new cells grow in rat brains. What is more, in rats this cell growth appears to be linked with reducing anxiety and depression. The results suggest that marijuana, or its derivatives, could actually be good for the brain."
more

also:



Actually they don't want a smarter electorate.
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Teen pot use could hurt b...