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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 12:47 AM Dec 2013

Alan Dershowitz rips Edward Snowden: ‘We have an absolute right’ to spy on other countries

Source: Raw Story

By Arturo Garcia
Thursday, December 26, 2013 21:57 EST

Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz criticized National Security Agency (NSA) whistleblower Edward Snowden on Thursday during a debate with Washington Post reporter Barton Gellman, who published Snowden’s first interview since being granted asylum in Russia earlier this year.

“He could have easily gone on 60 Minutes, and disclosed the existence of the program without disclosing the contents, some of which is extremely damaging to our national security,” Dershowitz told Hardball guest host Michael Smerconish, arguing that he could have released the information he compiled while working at the agency in a classified debriefing, instead of going to the Post and The Guardian.

In particular, Dershwoitz slammed Snowden for bringing to light the agency’s surveillance activities against other countries, saying they “raise some questions, but [were] not unconstitutional.

“We have an absolute right under our Constitution to listen to the prime minister of Israel, to listen to the chancellor of Germany,” Dershowitz said. “That is not a constitutional issue, and yet he disclosed — or people working on his behalf — the fact that we are using surveillance abroad, outside the country, where the Constitution does not apply.”

Dershowitz also argued that Snowden failed his criteria for criminal civil disobedience because of his departure from U.S. soil, and because his actions were not “a last resort,” a point Gellman contested.

“I’ve been reporting on national security for 20 years,” Gellman told Smerconish. “I’m not familiar with any case of a national security whistleblower ever, in my 20 years of covering this stuff, who was able to make an impact inside or who wasn’t crushed by the system for bringing his complaints.”

Gellman also pointed out Snowden’s remarks in the interview that he talked to both co-workers and multiple supervisors about his worries with the NSA’s data-mining, which the agency has denied.

“He said he thought they were unlawful,” Gellman said. “He said, also, that he thought the American people would react very badly to their disclosure — which is actually a very brave thing to say when you’re about to leak it yourself.”

Dershowitz also criticized Snowden’s statements calling his federal non-disclosure agreement a civil contract and saying he fulfilled his oath to the Constitution because, “The oath of allegiance is not an oath of secrecy.”


“It’s nonsense to say he signed a civil contract,” Dershowitz said. “It is a crime, and he knew it. Otherwise he wouldn’t have run away.”

“He’s got a broader set of concerns than just domestic surveillance,” Gellman said in response. “He was looking for a big national debate about any kind of mass surveillance, any kind of people without specific reason to believe that they’ve either done something wrong or that they have a legitimate target of foreign intelligence.”

“But that is not the law,” Dershowitz said, cutting in.

“He doesn’t say that it’s about the law,” Gellman answered. “He says it’s a matter of policy.”

Watch the discussion, as aired on MSNBC on Thursday, below.

Complete article posted with permission of Raw Story



Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/26/alan-dershowitz-rips-edward-snowden-we-have-an-absolute-right-to-spy-on-other-countries/




46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Alan Dershowitz rips Edward Snowden: ‘We have an absolute right’ to spy on other countries (Original Post) DonViejo Dec 2013 OP
I've heard rumors that Dershowitz at one time wasn't an asshole. Orrex Dec 2013 #1
I think he's on a mission to disprove the correlation between age and wisdom. adirondacker Dec 2013 #2
Dershowitz Is A Disgrace billhicks76 Dec 2013 #3
+1!! snot Dec 2013 #4
It's The Only Thing Our Leaders Are Insulted By billhicks76 Dec 2013 #25
I think it was response to theOJ Simpson case. rpannier Dec 2013 #8
I've heard rumors that a city of gold lies hidden in the Amazon Scootaloo Dec 2013 #9
Dershowitz being all for a police state is hardly LBN. He advocates for RW causes all the time. PSPS Dec 2013 #5
then, by his reasoning, every other country would have the right to spy on the citizens.. olddad56 Dec 2013 #6
Actually,yes thesquanderer Dec 2013 #19
Dershowitz shares an ego with Sarah Palin. QuestForSense Dec 2013 #7
Dershowitz just retired for a reason Helen Borg Dec 2013 #10
Oh. dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #11
Limitations? bl968 Dec 2013 #12
Derphowitz BornLooser Dec 2013 #13
Exactly. n/t Judi Lynn Dec 2013 #24
Alan? When we want your opinion Kelvin Mace Dec 2013 #14
+1000 rosesaylavee Dec 2013 #15
Michael Smerconish wanted his opinion and invited him to his program question everything Dec 2013 #22
My remark Kelvin Mace Jan 2014 #45
Recced in support of Bart Gellman Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #16
Cheerleaders for torturing people to death have no standing. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #17
I'll bet that if it came out they were spying SwankyXomb Dec 2013 #18
Not even the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights aren absolute. Orsino Dec 2013 #20
Well said. Snowden is a coward for escaping to such "freedom loving" countries question everything Dec 2013 #21
Some of us know the difference.. sendero Dec 2013 #27
question everything... Union Scribe Dec 2013 #44
Time for ad hominem, because he said the wrong thing treestar Dec 2013 #23
Snowden spied, stole and ran, he has been charged with espionage and theft. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #26
You are really serious? sendero Dec 2013 #28
What do you mean serious, simple not by a long shot, facts are facts. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #29
Here are some "facts" for you.. sendero Dec 2013 #30
Your facts on a violation of the Constitution is not a violation of the US Constitution. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #31
Like I said.. sendero Dec 2013 #32
Some people can't be helped, the truth shall set you free. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #33
but you trust the NSA to spy on you. olddad56 Dec 2013 #36
I trust the NSA much more than one who lies to get a job, steals from the job and then Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #37
Not very bright of you. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #38
It would not be very bright to trust Snowden, the contractor for NSA did and the trust was broken. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #41
Just curious, how long have you worked in the NSA PR department? n/t Psephos Dec 2013 #42
I have not worked in NSA PR, just understand when you are not supposed to divulge information Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #43
Of course they're spying on us... KinMd Dec 2013 #34
I wonder what Jonathan Pollard thinks of his lawyer arguing for the prosection of spies. rug Dec 2013 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author cpwm17 Dec 2013 #39
From the dean of the law school The Wizard Dec 2013 #40
Torture Warrants!!! civillawyer Jan 2014 #46

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
2. I think he's on a mission to disprove the correlation between age and wisdom.
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 01:11 AM
Dec 2013

He's got plenty of company to prove him right.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
3. Dershowitz Is A Disgrace
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 01:12 AM
Dec 2013

This man is repulsive to any decent human being. And the main issue isn't whether we spy on leaders of foreign governments...no one cares about that even if it is the only thing that gets some elitists riled up. No one wants to live in a country where the people are spied on and treated like prisoners. 1984 is what it's all about.

snot

(10,524 posts)
4. +1!!
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 01:23 AM
Dec 2013

including "it is the only thing that gets some elitists riled up" -- don't see that articulated much.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
25. It's The Only Thing Our Leaders Are Insulted By
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 06:54 PM
Dec 2013

Only when it affects them...they could give a crap about most Americans which is the root of the problem anyway...always back to the .01% vs Everyone Else.

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
8. I think it was response to theOJ Simpson case.
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 04:28 AM
Dec 2013

Probably unable to deal with Simpson being found not guilty

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
9. I've heard rumors that a city of gold lies hidden in the Amazon
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 05:38 AM
Dec 2013

Between the two, I find El Dorado the more credible.

olddad56

(5,732 posts)
6. then, by his reasoning, every other country would have the right to spy on the citizens..
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 02:10 AM
Dec 2013

of this country. Makes sense to me.

thesquanderer

(11,986 posts)
19. Actually,yes
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 01:47 PM
Dec 2013

I don't doubt that other countries can spy on us without breaking any of their own laws.

While I disagree with a lot of what he says, I think he's correct in saying that our spying on the citizens (or leaders) of other countries is not unconstitutional.

QuestForSense

(653 posts)
7. Dershowitz shares an ego with Sarah Palin.
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 03:44 AM
Dec 2013

Both say a lot of stupid shit in their quest to validate that ego. Pathetic!

Helen Borg

(3,963 posts)
10. Dershowitz just retired for a reason
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 06:43 AM
Dec 2013

Too many old professors do not realize their cognitive abilities have declined and go on making fools of themselves for years.

bl968

(360 posts)
12. Limitations?
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 07:25 AM
Dec 2013

Show me one place in Bill of Rights where the Constitution says that it's application is limited to American Citizens only....

question everything

(47,476 posts)
22. Michael Smerconish wanted his opinion and invited him to his program
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 05:48 PM
Dec 2013

Care to explain who is the "we" in your statement?

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
45. My remark
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 12:32 AM
Jan 2014

was to recall to folks attention that Dershowitz is pro-torture, therefore his opinions on any civil liberty issue are highly suspect.

SwankyXomb

(2,030 posts)
18. I'll bet that if it came out they were spying
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 12:46 PM
Dec 2013

on communications between him and one of his clients, he'd change that tune quickly.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
20. Not even the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights aren absolute.
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 03:37 PM
Dec 2013

Not sure which country's constitution he's reading.

question everything

(47,476 posts)
21. Well said. Snowden is a coward for escaping to such "freedom loving" countries
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 05:44 PM
Dec 2013

like China and Russia.

And I trust Dershowitz' opinion about the constitution more than I trues all the wannabe experts in the Guardian and on DU.

Certainly the Obama administration and others consider him a traitor.

He wants immunity, let offer him one and then grab him and throw him in jail. Together with Bradley Manning.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
27. Some of us know the difference..
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 07:18 PM
Dec 2013

.... between a traitor and a whistle-blower, a distinction lost on the feeble of mind or the pushing of agendas.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
23. Time for ad hominem, because he said the wrong thing
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 05:52 PM
Dec 2013

But not time for discussing the arguments.

I usually disagree with this guy, but here he's more or less right. This is a country. All countries try to preserve themselves. And Eddie should have used the WPA and gone to trial in the US, and should have waited until he had something of more substance.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
26. Snowden spied, stole and ran, he has been charged with espionage and theft.
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 07:06 PM
Dec 2013

What crime is Dershowitz with committing? If spying is wrong then the spy should face his charges.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
30. Here are some "facts" for you..
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 08:10 PM
Dec 2013

...

"Snowden found a gross violation of the constitution and blew the whistle"

"He did it the way he did because he saw what happened to people who tried to do it the "right" way"

And of course lastly, the government wouldn't think of leveling a charge against him to hide their own malfeasance, no that never happens.

Of course, the judicial system in this country is so corrupt only a fool would expect to get fair/constitutional treatment, none of the other whistleblowers did.

Snowden did what he had to do. He could not have done it any "better" way. He has made sure that names of operatives and such are not revealed, and that intelligence gathering methods are not revealed. One wonders just exactly what you and folks like you think he should have done.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
31. Your facts on a violation of the Constitution is not a violation of the US Constitution.
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 08:56 PM
Dec 2013

Warrants are issued through FISC though it may nit be to your liking. Where in the Constitution did it give the right to Snowden or anyone to steal? Under the Whistleblower Act it exempts those in the security department so he violated when he declared himself a "whistleblower", it does not allow him to divulge information from the security department. If Snowden had been so "right" he would have remained in the US.

Not for a moment do I trust my private information to Snowden and the rest should feel the same way about his deeds. He can not be trusted.

olddad56

(5,732 posts)
36. but you trust the NSA to spy on you.
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:22 AM
Dec 2013

you should have been born 75 years ago in a country in Europe. You would have made a good 'citizen'.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
37. I trust the NSA much more than one who lies to get a job, steals from the job and then
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 01:22 AM
Dec 2013

Squeals, yep that would be Snowden.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
38. Not very bright of you.
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:11 AM
Dec 2013

Go right ahead and trust the NSA. We know they lie for a living. They need lots of people just like you to be compliant.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
41. It would not be very bright to trust Snowden, the contractor for NSA did and the trust was broken.
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:08 PM
Dec 2013

There seems to be trust placed in Snowden of which he does not deserve. Do I think there should be changes at NSA, yes, with the Snowden betrayal came to light it was immediately apparent background checks is lacking in proper attention. I can also say Snowden needs people like you to be compliant to his position, we know Snowden lies and apparently is a very large part of his daily life.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
43. I have not worked in NSA PR, just understand when you are not supposed to divulge information
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:15 PM
Dec 2013

You know to keep your mouth shut or I could have been charged with espionage. How long have you worked or plan to do work for Snowden and his puppetmasters.

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

The Wizard

(12,545 posts)
40. From the dean of the law school
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:56 AM
Dec 2013

that bestowed a Juris Doctorate on disgraced former Attorney General Alberto (Torquemada) Gonzalez.

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