Brain dead teen gets feeding, breathing tubes

[jsr]

Source: Associated Press

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — A 13-year-old California girl who was declared brain dead after suffering complications from sleep apnea surgery has been given the feeding and breathing tubes that her family had been trying to obtain for weeks.

Christopher Dolan, the attorney for the girl's family, said doctors inserted the gastric tube and tracheostomy tube Wednesday at the undisclosed facility where Jahi McMath was taken Jan. 5.

The procedure was a success, Dolan said, and Jahi is getting the treatment that her family believes she should have gotten 28 days ago, when doctors at Children's Hospital Oakland first declared her brain dead.

Jahi underwent tonsil surgery Dec. 9, then began bleeding heavily before going into cardiac arrest and being declared brain dead Dec. 12.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/09/brain-dead-teen/4386597/

[AtheistCrusader]

1. Medically unethical.

Unbelievable.

[warrant46]

30. Reagan raised from the Dead

http://www.theonion.com/video/zombie-reagan-raised-from-grave-to-lead-gop,14385/

[Journeyman]

2. I understand and commiserate, but I do not agree and cannot condone . . .

There are times and circumstances when we must all let go, though it break our heart and be beyond comprehension . . .

[davidpdx]

3. More corpse abuse

It seems like their goal is to keep the poor girl alive so they can wheel her in during the trial.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

37. But she's not alive.

She is decomposing.

[davidpdx]

44. What I mean by "alive" really is the deception of her breathing on the machine

[SCVDem]

4. Who is paying this bill?

Brain dead is dead. What's left is a bizarre zombie without the slightest bit of thought or motion.

Turn off the machines and Blame God for whatever happens!

[uppityperson]

40. In the big scheme of things, there are much larger wastes of taxpayer money.

[MrsKirkley]

5. Wasn't there a recent article saying the body is deteriorating (decomposing)?

[joshcryer]

8. Yep:

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24857783/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-teens-body-may-be

It's super fucked up.

The more bizarre thing is that it's likely scientists are looking at this little "experiment" and wanting to get data from it.

[Android3.14]

23. Probably

So weird. So sad.

[tblue]

6. Please let me go

I'm telling my family ASAP: "If I am ever brain dead, if I can't breathe or eat on my own, please, please let me go. For your own sake and mine."

Ugh. So awful. That poor family and that poor girl!

[tomp]

17. we have to stop using the term "brain dead".

brain dead IS dead. period. there is no coming back from brain death.

the heart beats on its own because that is how the heart works. mechanical ventilations allows oxygen to be provided to the bloodstream. the heart will stop beating shortly after the oxygen is stopped.

[mnhtnbb]

19. Do more than tell your family. Put it in writing and give it to them, your doc, your attorney.

And if you are ever hospitalized, bring a copy with you and give it to them.

Info and forms for state by state advance directives here:

http://www.caringinfo.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3289

[giftedgirl77]

21. This is a great website, thank you.

[tblue]

43. Yes yes yes yes yes! Put it in writing!

I have an advance directive, but I need to update it. I have learned a thing or two going through some of these issues with family members. You have to be EXPLICIT. You have to imagine scenarios you never dreamed could happen. Thank you for the link, mnhtnbb! Gonna do it, I promise!

[Deep13]

7. So did the docs nick an artery or something?

Pretty unusual for such a superficial procedure to go so wrong.

[joshcryer]

9. It was more than just tonsil removal.

They had to do some other stuff in the nasal cavity if I understand correctly.

It wasn't a "routine" procedure and even the "routine" procedures do have failures.

[Deep13]

36. I see. I had nasal cavity surgery once.

Keep me home for a week and even after that it hurt like hell.

[colinmom71]

10. This was not a superficial procedure....

She didn't just have a tonsillectomy. This was her third surgery to remove excessive tissue within her lower sinus/back of the throat to address obstructive sleep apnea. This time, the surgery also involved removing her tonsils and adenoids as well as the uvula and portions of the soft palate. It wouldn't surprise me if scarring from the previous surgeries weren't also necessary to remove to reduce the obstruction to the girl's breathing.

These areas of the head are highly vascular - there are lots of densely located blood vessels that get severed in a surgery for that area. It's why mouth and head wounds tend to bleed more readily, though they do tend to heal more quickly than external skin wounds. But the amount of tissue removal involved in this child's surgery was significantly greater than a routine tonsillectomy, thus the risk of bleeding was also far greater.

[Deep13]

34. I see. Thanks. nt

[LiberalElite]

22. I read that the family may have disregarded

post-op instructions to keep the girl quiet. Standard procedure after upper airway surgery. She woke up and asked for an ice pop. So she did survive the surgery. Some bleeding is expected after this surgery but it quickly went out of control. They also allegedly didn't tell the doctors about a familial tendency to bleed.

[Deep13]

35. Wow.

[newfie11]

12. This is the family's call

While I personally think they should let her go, this is a decision the family needs to make.

The mom has said the daughter responds to her voice, maybe or maybe not.

If the child is truly dead then granting this extension in time is for the family.

I know of a patient that was considered brain dead and her organs were harvested.

The kicker is once the harvest was done, tubes removed, the patient woke up!

The surgeon and staff were in shock.
The surgeon was in tears and left the hospital.

The harvested patient was an aunt of a friend of mine. She had a bad asthma attack, couldn't breath, ran outside in a panic and collapsed.

Shit happens. The dead are dead but this is a family's decision at this point. The child, if dead is in no pain or discomfort.

This is the family's decision.

[Demit]

13. That's quite a story.

I don't think it's possible to wake up after having all one's organs removed.

[newfie11]

15. They did not remove the heart or lungs

You can think what you want but it happened.
She did really die shortly after waking.

[Shivering Jemmy]

27. And this didn't make the news?

If accurate, which I doubt, patient wasn't brain dead.

The corpse that we are discussing in this thread is.

[newfie11]

29. This was in the 80s

As far as I know it was not reported in the news. Unless the family reported it the news would not know.
I would bet the hospital and all involved were sued up the wazoo.

Was there was a mistake made on her brain being dead, probably and mistakes happen.

That's why I say cut the family some slack in this case. This is their business only.

[GeorgeGist]

14. Did they put the organs back?

Just in case:

[newfie11]

16. That was my first question

No they did not

[idwiyo]

18. Which organs were harvested?

[newfie11]

20. Sorry I do not know

This was over 20 years ago in MI. It was quite a shock to hear this. Even the radiologist in my department were shocked to hear this. The person that told me is was a fellow registered radiographer.
The reason I know they did not remove the heart or lungs is because that was my first question to her.

This has made me more less judgmental on things such as this. As long as the person is not suffering it is the family's decision IMO.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

39. Maybe this will help you understand it's a corpse.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/196756012/Children-s-Hospital-Oakland-Supplemental-Declaration-of-Dr-Heidi-Flori

[warrant46]

24. The science experiment marches on.

[SCVDem]

25. Just the facts

Fact: People can recover from comas, but not brain death. Coma and brain death are not the same. Brain death is final.http://organdonor.gov/whydonate/facts.html

6. Anytime you are in a hospital, doctors will do all they can to save your life. Donation only occurs after the death of a patient is declared by physicians who are legally not affiliated with donation. - See more at: http://www.donatelifeny.org/about-donation/quick-facts-about-donation/#sthash.C1V2iFxZ.dpuf

Most of the organs that are available come from deceased donors. When you fill out an organ donor card with your driver's license, you're agreeing to donate all or some of your organs if you die.
http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/organ-donation-facts


If a person is hospitalized, the medical staff provides the best possible care, regardless of organ donor status. Donation is only considered after a patient has died.
http://www.transplants.org/facts-about-organ-donation

Need more sources? Just google organ donatiom.

As for the story of a aunt of a friend? Gotta call BS. Too much liability. You are dead. In this case she will be prepped and the machines turned off. Then the race begins.

[mucifer]

26. This wouldn't happen in countries that have single payer medical care

The financial cost of all of this is insane. People can survive for weeks or more with their organs failing on many IV drips and super powerful ventilators with nitrous oxide forcing air into the body to the extent that the air goes under the skin causing subcutaneous emphysema. It's just not right. I have seen bodies like this being kept alive. Sometimes they can't determine if someone is brain dead if the person is too heavily sedated for an EEG and has too fragile of a respiratory system to go for a CT scan.

I might be a cold hearted person. But, I believe it's unethical to keep the person's heart beating.

[TBF]

28. I don't think that is cold-hearted

at all. The opposite in fact - you are thinking about what is being done to that human under the guise of keeping them "alive".

If you've ever been in the hospital with an elderly relative and heard what those ventilators sound like you are thanking the lord (religious or not) if they have a living will and they are finally turned off after everyone has their chance to come to terms and say their goodbyes. I don't think it's anywhere near moral or ethical to keep someone breathing in a mechanical fashion for your own needs.

I feel so bad for any parent losing a child - I cannot imagine the pain. But to prolong all of this for weeks is just beyond the pail. They are doing a disservice to their daughter and her memory imo.

[Hestia]

41. 20 Billion dollars a year is spent on people hooked up to ventilators. It will last as long as

someone is paying and the body holds out. There are hundreds of elderly hooked up to ventilators all over the country because the no one in the family will take the responsibility of "pulling the plug on grandma." The point of all this is to NEVER be hooked up to a ventilator - ever. Once that happens, it becomes an "act of god" to get it pulled. Even with Advanced Directives, children will overrule and insist on the ventilator. Ridiculous!

PBS Death and Dying Series - they had a whole program regarding people hooked to ventilators. 90 year old people with Alzheimer's hooked up can last 20 years on a ventilator.

If there is any fraud and waste within the Medicare & Medicaid system, I feel that this is a large part of it too.

[PasadenaTrudy]

31. As I'm so fond of saying..

People are nuts!

[geomon666]

32. This link bears repeating

http://docbastard.blogspot.com/2014/01/jahi-mcmath-faq.html

[SCVDem]

33. Well, that covers it

At least for anyone with a basic education.

[Hestia]

42. The family needs to read the FAQ and thoroughly understand it. Is there no one in the family

who can understand it all and hold their and sit down and explain what the hell is going on? "They say" that in keeping her hooked up the machines, they are enslaving her soul to her body. She's kinda trapped here, like a ghost. Let her move on to wherever it is that she moves on to. I wasn't aware of all the EEG's and Radionuclide Brain Scans she has had. It isn't like the doctors didn't try to see where she is so they know where to begin IF she had some brain function. She Has None.

[Brigid]

38. This is just morbid.

There is no other word for it.