U.S. Supreme Court to hear woman's claim to $3.4M from Texas man who owned child-porn photos of her
Source: Associated Press
A woman whose childhood rapes by her uncle were captured on camera and widely traded on the Internet wants the Supreme Court to make it easier for victims of child pornography to collect money from people who view the brutal images on their computers.
The case being argued at the Supreme Court on Wednesday involves a Texas man who pleaded guilty to having images of children engaged in sex acts on his computer. Doyle Randall Paroline is appealing an order holding him responsible for the full amount of losses, nearly $3.4 million, suffered by the woman known as Amy. Of the several hundred incriminating images on Paroline's computer, just two were of Amy.
Advocates for child pornography victims say that holding defendants liable for the entire amount of losses better reflects the ongoing harm that victims suffer each time someone views the images online. The threat of a large financial judgment, coupled with a prison term, also might deter some people from looking at the images in the first place, the advocates say.
"The threat that a person in the child pornography market may well bear the entire cost of the harm done to the victim, even if they are a 'minor player,' is likely to be a large deterrent, especially when the harm done typically runs into the millions for a victim's lifetime of care," said Marci Hamilton, a law professor at Yeshiva University. Hamilton wrote a brief in the case on behalf of the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children.
Read more: http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2014/01/supreme_court_to_hear_womans_c.html#incart_river_default
Squinch
(50,949 posts)out there.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)stamp such images out for good.
You can imprison the people with them sure but we have been doing that already yet the number of cases do not appear to be going down and I dont think a lawsuit seeking money will do much accomplish that either.
To be honest I think we need to consider trying a new approach say by a massive funding effort into trying to find a treatment for people who are attracted to such images because thats really the only way I can see that we are ever really going to be able to achieve some real progress.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)trying.
Intensive psychological treatment has been tried, and is notoriously ineffective. Even chemical castration doesn't stop it.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)that alot of those involved in this kind of stuff probably are already aware of the potential jail time involved yet they keep doing it still.
And yes treatment has been tried in the past but I am of the belief that further research into it holds the best long term solution.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Reddit, might be helpful in shutting them down.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)those seeking the images and the only way i think thats going happen is by trying to find a treatment for such people instead of throwing our hands up in the air and saying "There is no cure!!!".
If we did that every time we hit a wall there wouldnt be a treatment for any of diseases.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Frankly, that doesn't matter in terms of the problem that exists in the present.
Specifically, child abuse causes lifelong harm. It costs victims millions, living and fighting the damage.
The only thing that makes a difference to people who fundamentally do not want to change is painful consequences and removal from society. No more fteedom to harm innovent victims.
And enforcement.
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)Huh??
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)'til Nov 2012...and Swartz killed himself not 2 months later. Reddit had a public fight wirh Gawker over the issue.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/02/policy-shift-reddit-bans-child-pornography.html
I have no doubt the JSTOR prosecution was merely cover to get him to agree to a federal plea deal that would have given the government quite a bit on Reddit, and certain rooms contained therein.
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)And your post backs up none of your accusations against Reddit.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)However... the methods required to do so would be severely harsh. In the majority of cases, I oppose the death penalty... but for those who abuse children, or who take part in this sickness, I would be a very strong advocate of the death penalty. My only regret is that I would not be able to execute them myself.
It has been demonstrated over and over again that there is no rehabilitation, no cure, for these kinds of people. I have absolutely no sympathy for them at all. I can eagerly share my compassion with almost anyone, but when it comes to these monsters who use children in such a way... I can't think of anything that would make me happier, than in each and every one of them being executed once guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt.
These are monsters that destroy lives. I would rather spend my tax dollars keeping them locked up, or sending them to their graves, than in in any effort to treat them.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)that doesnt mean that there all efforts should be abandoned to look for treatments that do work.
I mean right now there is no "cure" for cancer either but that doesnt mean they should stop trying to find one and or find new ways of treating people with it.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Come from all walks of life. They are not ill in the same way that people with bi-polar disorder, PTSD, OCD, or any other number of disorders are ill.
It is something I do not think we can categorize or define as a mental illness, as we are talking about their actions and not their state of mind. The consequences... the things that made them who they are? Some of them were abused as children, some of them were not. Some of them are simply in the business for the sake of profit, not caring who is hurt by it, not caring who's lives are destroyed.
I do not think that there is any point in searching for a cure, or for treatment - not once they have committed the crime. Once they have ruined one child's life, harmed one family through their twisted and perverse actions, then I do not believe in second chances, not for them. I say this with the anger of a survivor, and with far too much knowledge of these sorts of twisted, sorry excuses for human beings operate.
The pain they cause - in the lives of innocent children, for me, is simply too much. They should fear the survivors of their abuse, because the vast majority of us are completely without mercy for them.... there is good reason why this is so. It is not something I can explain without going into details I do not wish to share here.
On the off chance that we could come up with this cure you speak of, that would somehow stop them from being physically attracted to children... I expect that they would continue their abuse regardless. It is not about sex. It's about power. For the most part, it is about twisted, adult individuals, who find it thrilling to have such absolute power and control over a helpless child. It is sadistic, it is cruel - there are no words in the English language foul enough to describe them.
Do we make people, like, say... Mitt Romney, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, Michael Savage, or Rush Limbaugh... do we make them decent human beings through treatment? Do we seek a cure for them? Or do we rightly despise them for the sick human beings they are? Not everything that happens is the result of illness, some times, human beings are simply monstrous people. The worst of the monsters, in my strongly held opinion - are those who prey upon children.
The idea that they could be treated or cured is rather naïve. Their actions aren't the result of a mental illness that you can treat.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)We're talking about sick pieces of shit who prey on children.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)that applies to other things as well from going to the moon to being able to call someone across the country so I would caution you and others at saying there will never be a treatment for these kind of people because no one can predict the future.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)But the judgement will end up being OJ like in that the victim will never be able to recover everything they deserve.
petronius
(26,602 posts)maybe he ought to be getting a much bigger bill.
But he has a simple solution: if he doesn't want to pay it all himself, he just has to point out all the people who deserve to share it with him. It's his own problem if he can't do that...
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)our country. (Well 5 of them anyway). I hope they side with the victim, but I won't hold my breath.
delrem
(9,688 posts)What argument could he possibly have??
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)This is the pro-tort reform, limiting damages court. They are loathe to make anyone pay money for damages. Large lawsuit rewards are a big no no for the corporate crowd, and this is the most pro-business scotus in the history of this country. And yes, those things are tracked (who knew?)
delrem
(9,688 posts)It continually boggles me.
What boggles me most is that education doesn't seem to alter it.
To my mind the right-wing mindset appears to be a pathology rather than a fully reasoned position - and considering that some of the most virulent right-wingers are highly educated (SCOTUS judges among them), well, my mind just shuts down trying to understand it.
I'm convinced that I'm missing something, some essential factor necessary for understanding the nature of a *fix* for the problem, and I have no clue what that factor is.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)What you said.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Won't it be something to see who says yes vs. no.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Shouldn't all the people who viewed her pictures be in jail? I thought child porn was very illegal to possess in any form and carried a penalty.
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)There is no treatment to lessen their horrifying behavior, period. Not therapy and not chemicals.
And yes, find them ALL and prosecute each and every one, and then sue each and every one.
If it shuts just one down, it will be worth it.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)One problem is that people who are actually innocent, but who are facing the death penalty or bankruptcy or the like, will be pressured to make some kind of deal because of that risk. Suppose a defendant is telling the truth that someone else downloaded those images, and he never even looked at them. Nevertheless, despite his actual innocence, he's bludgeoned into settling with the porn victim and paying her a substantial sum, because he fears that he'll lose much more if the case goes to trial. That's an injustice.
Another drawback is that, if jurors know what the consequence will be and consider it disproportionate, they'll be reluctant to go where the evidence leads them. If we were to impose the death penalty for possession of child porn (even a couple of pictures), it would become harder to get jurors to convict child-porn defendants.
Psephos
(8,032 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)It would be better, if less dramatic, to impose penalties that are severe, but not incommensurate with the nature of what the defendant has actually done. Theories of transferred guilt and punishment always are subject to attack on grounds of fairness.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Anyone else who does enjoy some pornography can probably attest, when looking at many porn sites, even if you don't look for child pornography, and have no interest in child porn at all, it does sometimes come up, and ends up saved on the drive as cookies.
Sometimes even, it's possible for it to get saved on the computer when not even looking at pornography sites.
There's the clear cut cases - guy has tons of vids and photo's where they all, or most obviously target children/child pornography. No question at all.
There's more slightly grey area cases - example: Guy has a large photo/vid collection. They all have females in them, some have women and men in sexual acts in them. Most of the porn is of consenting adults, but some of the video's have girls in them who it turns out was under age when they were shot. Should this guy get the same penalty as the clear cut case above? I think it could be reasonably argued that this person didn't actively seek out or target child pornography.
Then there's heavier grey areas - for example: Guy has a large photo/vid collection. They all have females in them, some have women and men in sexual acts in them. Most of the porn is of consenting adults, but it turns out that a couple of the video's had guy's in them who it turns out was under age when they were shot. Should this guy suffer the same penalty as the 2 above? It's quite possible, and likely that someone with this profile of porn probably never even gave the guys age consideration, and was watching for the women.
Then there's extremely grey area. How about if someone who views porn has nothing at all saved in their document files at all that has child pornography, but the porn sites they hit had adds for child pornography, that showed photo's in the add, and it ended up being saved in the cookies.