NYPD hunting for Hoffman’s heroin dealer after 70 bags found
Source: New York Post
The NYPD on Monday launched an intensive citywide search to identify the drug dealer who sold heroin to troubled Oscar-winning actor Philip Seymour Hoffman, who died of an overdose Sunday in his Greenwich Village pad where cops found nearly 70 bags of the drug.
An internal email went out to all supervisors asking if anyone has had any experience with those brand names of drugs, a law enforcement source told The Post. Theyre going to try to find the source.
Timothy Bugge, the new commanding officer of Manhattan South Narcotics emailed the alert to supervisors asking if they had dealt with heroin labeled Ace of Spades, or Ace of Hearts.
Cops found nearly 70 glassine envelopes of heroin with those markings in Hoffmans $10,000-a-month Bethune Street apartment.
Read more: http://nypost.com/2014/02/03/nypd-launches-intense-hunt-for-hoffmans-heroin-dealer
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Stupid to blame the dealer. Hoffman was an adult and he had to know, in fact he said he did know, that he could and probably would die if he kept it up.
It is a terrible thing but blaming his dealer is just a total crock of shit. Unless the heroin was cut with something poisonous, of course.
savalez
(3,517 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Are we going to concentrate our drug task force efforts based upon one famous death? Are we going to charge someone with murder for this?
savalez
(3,517 posts)I suppose the police want to find the person who has access to that much of it at once. They probably wouldn't if it was only a small amount.
mikeysnot
(4,756 posts)You can get what ever you want in this country... 120k for RENT!
The Drug Laws are only for little people. And for the surveillance, prison and legal industrial complex can profit off of big government. Enriching themselves in the process.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)There are so many homeless and hungry people who need jobs and a decent place to live .. why should I have sympathy for someone who just throws their life away? I recovered from a serious alcohol problem and I have remained sober for 20 years now. But I have also paid a huge price for my addiction. I live on the edge like most everyone in this country .. yet this guy who had an enormous gift, which brought him all the things I could ever want, decided it all wasn't worth it. Oh how demanding those ''big hollywood actor's" lives must be .. you know, making all those big bucks, owning several houses, cars, planes even. I feel pity for his children and family.
liberalmuse
(18,671 posts)For shitting on everyone who has lost a family member or a loved one to a drug overdose. You have no fucking clue what you are saying and how extremely hurtful words like yours are. The people who die like this are just as deserving of compassion as people without addictions. You have no idea what their lives were like or how they saw the world, or why they did the things they did. You sound like Rush Limbaugh, who is incapable of empathy or compassion. I loathe that man because he essentially said the same shit when I had just lost my brother to a drug overdose. If you think that material things should've solved Philip Seymour Hoffman's problems, that is truly sad.
erpowers
(9,350 posts)It seems that some people fail to realize that celebrities are people just like the rest of us. Being an actor/actress, singer, or entertainer does not make one a super human who does not make mistakes. They do stupid things just like us. They make big mistakes just like us.
Being a celebrity does not make it any easier to beat addiction. Just because he seems to have died of a drug overdose does not mean that he did not think his gift was not worth it. It is very possible he hated being an addict and always thought of the risk he was taking. It is very possible that if there had been a way for him to drop his addiction with the snap of his fingers he would have done so.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)He didn't "decide it wasn't worth it". He didn't "throw away" his life. It was taken from him like a cancer victim.
You need to go to getaclue.com
Lex
(34,108 posts)Therefore they are due no more or no less compassion than anyone else. Their lives aren't more important--EVERYONE who wastes their lives on drugs is the same tragedy.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)they would just assume that the dead junkie was a dealer. But if you are famous, then, are automatically the victim of a tragedy.
How do they know that this famous dead junkie wasn't supporting his habit by supplying heroin to a few of his closest junkie friends.
If they want to find the person with access to that much all at once, well, they have certainly found one person who had access to that much all at once.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)That's why they do investigations..... Not a difficult concept.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)Simple concepts are hard to grasp sometimes.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)in this guy's possession doesn't constitute possession for sales.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)The dude was rich, he didn't need to deal. He was an addict, not a pusher.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)If he had purchased a quantity of that size, more than likely he wouldn't have purchased it already divided up into 70 individual packages. and more than likely, he didn't purchase it from a street level dealer. The stuff was packaged to be sold in small quantities.
We can both speculate and that is all we can do until the truth comes out, if it ever does. And it may never come out. I don't expect his supplier to come forward and if he was dealing, I wouldn't expect his customers to come forward either.
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)that when you have multiple separate bags of drugs you CAN be charged with dealing. That doesn't mean that Hoffmann was a dealer at all though. He could have just accumulated those baggies because of the length of his habit.
I've had people tell me that if you have several different grams of weed you should toss them into just one baggy to avoid felony dealing charges. If you are pulled over with separate grams of white widow, blue mountain bud, and train wreck, you could be charged with dealing. The law isn't right but it is the law.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)unless he was making his own, somehow.
savalez
(3,517 posts)Label the dead guy the dealer and case closed.
brewens
(13,538 posts)trying to make money or support a habit. It could be he had user friends that he bought in quantity for and supplied more to party with than make money. I did the same with weed back in the day. I'd get a quarter or half pound and "share" it. I charged enough to make a little but it wasn't like I counted on it. I had a good job and knew a good source, sometimes my buddies did the same for me. That's not in the league of scoring a shitload of "H" but it could be something like that.
a lot of heroin for a guy who can afford it and has an average size habit, about a week's worth. Worked in a methadone clinic.
So roughly 10 bags a day is the norm? That's got to be a tough spot to be in.
RobinA
(9,886 posts)yes. The majority of people I dealt with had an 8-10 bag a day habit, usually 10. The effects of heroin don't last that long.
Scairp
(2,749 posts)I admit I'm no expert on it outside of Janis and Jimi and Jim and Kurt and on and on...but are we sure these were all FULL baggies of heroin, or is something lost in translation and maybe most of them were empty and just lying around his place? I just don't understand why one person would sell that much to a single, VERY famous person, and not think "hey, he might off himself with my shit, maybe I shouldn't sell him more than one or two, just to cover my own ass, in case he dies". Or is that too logical? I find it hard to believe he had multiple dealers. Most people find someone and stay with them as long as that person gets them what they want. I'd be scared if I was the person who sold him so much smack.
I have to say, you could have knocked me over with a feather to read he died like this. The rock stars, those whose drug addled antics are well documented, etc. sure. But not this man. I know it's been said a billion times already, but what an incredible loss. This is a hard one to come to terms with. This is at least as hard as James Gandolfini, but I was not as big a fan of his as I was of Hoffman so this hurts. Like Heath Ledger, just totally out of the blue shocking.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)If you want to save lives, legalize and regulate heroin. If you wish instead to continue a pointless moral crusade against drugs we don't like, continue the insane war on drugs. Fill the coffins with junkies who failed to conform, most of them not white male celebrities like Seymour. Fill the prisons with non-violent offenders of your morality. Keep the price of heroin high, keep its purity and dosage unknown, keep the gangsters and banksters and drug war agencies rolling in cash, and force addicts into the nether world of black market criminality. As a side benefit, feel smug and never consider the actual consequences of your failed policies.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)But in the meantime if this heroin was laced and there is a lot more out there I hope the police find it.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)That's the point. Instead of knee jerking into authoritarian mode, how about reflecting about why this happens to begin with? Instead of just repeating the same idiocy over and over again, in renewed outrage 'cause this time it wasn't some anonymous unprivileged person, how about thinking about the actual issue and how best to address it?
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,867 posts)I'll meet you at Starbucks in 20 minutes and we can reflect on how to end world hunger and income inequality too.
In the meantime life goes on and some things require immediate action. If there is a lot more of the stuff that showed up in Pennsylvania out there, I hope they find it.
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 3, 2014, 06:59 PM - Edit history (1)
Arguments can be had about some drugs, but there is no moral argument for the legalization of heroin. It is a destroyer. So those that advocate legalization may feel morally superior. That's fine with me as long as they realize they have the blood of users and innocents caught up in the crossfire on their hands.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)The legalization of heroin requires no more argument than the legalization of water. Illegalization requires an argument.
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)Up until just recently you couldn't install a rain barrel under your gutter downspout in Colorado. Just because something is illegal, doesn't amount to an ethical argument for keeping it illegal.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Yay Team!
sendero
(28,552 posts).. and then pontificate.
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)I spell checked every post in this thread before and after you posted this and they came up clean. Maybe you should take your own advice?
sendero
(28,552 posts)... I'm pretty sure you meant heroin.
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)That's why it came up clean.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)stillcool
(32,626 posts)That would totally upset the apple cart on so many levels. All that money the prison/'justice' industry generates and distributes.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)That's not to say all should be available without a prescription. Illegalization has never been effective. The only proven methods of regulating drugs is by prescription or tax stamp.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)Does that include bath salts, meth, and pcp? I believe there are some drugs whose severe physical and mental effects are so heinous they should never be made legal.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Yes, Schedule II. That makes it less dangerous than marijuana, according to the wisdom of our congressional overseers, who classified pot as Schedule I.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The world didn't end.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)If you can get a doctor to prescribe it to you, then you should be able to get it. Do I think doctors should prescribe bath salts? No, but I'm not so naive to think that someone who wants them bad enough can't get them. At least if they get them through a doctor their health will be monitored, the consistency and toxicity of the drug can be controlled, the drug supplier can be held accountable, and they will have other viable options which in itself will reduce demand for truly heinous drugs. When drugs are illegalized, generally none of those things will be true. Making the drugs illegal doesn't depreciate the severe physical and mental effects, it just drives them underground where society loses pretty much all control.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)we would rather keep the problem underground and pretend it doesn't exist. Out of sight, out of mind. We would rather spend billions to treat the problem as a criminal problem rather than a health problem. Meanwhile, the underground, continues to siphon billions out of the mainstream economy. People get hooked and then it gets real. Lives get destroyed, families get devastated, kids die, or go to jail, then to prison,then completely sucked down the incarceration sewer, and nobody even wants to talk about it. And the problem just keeps growing and growing. It is an industry, a criminal industry on one hand and a crime enforcement industry on the other had. Heroin and other illegal drugs create a need for more cops, more prisons, more prison employees, etc.
I don't have the real answer, but, since losing my best friend to heroin in my early 20s and being around him and several other junkies for a few years, I had the opportunity to observe the daily routine of life in a shooting gallery. The guy who ran it was my best friend growing up. He wasn't a bad guy. He was just like most young people who had a job and a family, and then tried it a few times, liked it, it relieved stress, and one day he was hooked. And things just went downhill from there. I lived two doors down and was in college. His life was falling apart fast enough to make me see that it was never a direction I wanted to go in. I was just a hopeless co-dependent that wanted to 'fix' my friends life before I lost him.
Hanging out in the shooting gallery, it always made me wonder how could we as a nation stop this epidemic or at least slow it down. My thoughts about this were always were based on the one observation that many people don't get to realize because they have never been that close to the problem. That one observation is this. If you are addicted to heroin THERE IS AN OVERWHELMING INCENTIVE TO GET OTHER PEOPLE HOOKED. Once a junkie has a habit, it isn't no longer fun and games, they have to support this habit. The habit is there to greet them every morning when they wake up. It isn't long into most junkie's habits that they become consumed with just getting enough heroin to keep from getting sick. They build up a tolerance to heroin quickly. If they can score enough to get get high, that is a bonus, but most of the time, they are just trying to stave off the craving and the sickness that starts when they need a fix. It isn't long before they can no longer hold down a job and they go from being employed and 'chipping' on the weekends to being a junkie with a habit. I think that when they are straight, they are so filled with shame and stress, that it adds to the need to 'out of the rain'.
Most of the people I observed would begin their downhill slide as regular people with an job and an income. They all usually drank, smoked cigarettes, and pot. They would some how get acquainted with my friend, and begin to stop by my friends place on their lunch hour and buy a dime. They wouldn't even own an outfit (a needle, spoon, and something to use for a tourniquet). They would stop by, get a fix, my friend would let them use his rig, they would relax for a while and leave. Then one dime bag at lunch would turn into two, and then they would be stopping by after work, etc. The point that I want make is that with the exception of using heroin, none of these people were criminals. But once they had a habit, they had to find a way to support the habit. The most common means I observed was the "Mary K business model" (for lack of a better term). Introduce a friend to heroin, they supply him, or at least score for him and pinch a little of the score. Eventually move up to where you are supplying a enough people to keep your habit going.
I think all of this was mysterious and underground, and because of the huge incentive people had to get others hooked, it almost seemed glamorous to some people. This was just the situation that I was able to obverse. This was in the 70s and the users were young white people. I would imagine that it is very different in the minority communities where the problem was much more deeply entrenched. I think the higher you go up the supply chain, the more you see the money as being even more addictive that the drug. Being a mid to upper level dealer is looked up upon in a lot of extremely poor neighborhoods.
But.. what if, and this is just my 'what if'. What if the problem was brought to the surface for everyone to see. What if it were treated as a health problem and the incentive to get others addicted was removed. What if the government took over the role of the supplier. Similar to the way the methadone distribution is run in California. What if every junkie was registered and had to report to a clinic or distribution center to receive their 'medicine'? I think that once the incentive to get others hooked is removed, the people who are convincing other to try it, would be the same people would would be leading by example and demonstrating to others why they don't ever want to go down that road. Government spends billions just trying to identify and keep tabs on heroin addicts. You switch to this model and know where the junkies are. At least once or twice a day, they would be coming in for their daily dose.
Of course, this is a simplification of a hypothetical solution to the problem and it doesn't take into account the other problems that would stem from this 'pie in the sky' alternative to what we have today. But I do believe that there has to be a better way to deal with drug addiction than the costly, antiquated, and ineffective way we are going about it today. Just my opinion.
I worked at a methadone clinic. Most of our people, once they got stabilized and didn't have to spend every waking moment trying to obtain heroin, went to work and their lives improved considerably. Now, there were still problems with the way methadone was delivered, still the moralizing involved, making people jump through hoops, etc., but they still improved their lives once they got their habit off the street.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)It has been my observation that methadone in itself is a rather dangerous drug. They same person I mentioned in my long winded post, was eventually able to get on the methadone program. He was able to work after that but there were two tragic accidents involving my friend and his wife, that seemed to be related to how absent minded they were on methadone. Methadone is not perfect, but it does have it's place until a better program comes about.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)that will be a novel defence once this dealer is ratted out..
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)It's an admission of guilt.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...then I agree the dealer is not liable. However, if it turns out to be the recent and deadly fentanyl laced heroin, I think the dealer should be held accountable.
Some of the heroin on the streets right now is 50% fentanyl; a lethal mixture with a growing list of dead bodies behind it. Previously known as 'China White', this tainted heroin is known to be sold in glassine bags like those found in Phillip Seymour Hoffman's home.
TYY
red dog 1
(27,771 posts)but whether it's "tainted" or not, I still hope they find the dealer.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)although there does seem to be a minority here that seem annoyed that many of us are angry and sad
over the death of a "privileged, white celebrity", but what the fuck ever.
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)What he is doing is blatantly illegal and he is a threat to others.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)And if not, did he force PSH to inject himself?
The only person to blame for PSH's death is himself.
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)There's plenty of blame to go around. He has himself to blame, but also the criminals that supplied it. And the suppliers are criminals by default.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)But again, unless he was FORCED to inject himself, he alone is responsible for his death.
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)This is the problem with heroine. It's so addictive that he doesn't have a choice either way.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)He had a choice to use in the beginning.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)dbackjon
(6,578 posts)He is still not a victim.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Like the liquor store clerk who sells addictive, toxic alcohol.
Or the pharmacist who shells out addictive, toxic prescription medications.
Or the convenience store clerk who sells addictive, toxic cigarettes.
The only difference is that the heroin dealer is criminalized, and that probably increases the likelihood of accidental overdoses, not to mention impurities. You can't regulate what you prohibit.
BainsBane
(53,012 posts)Dealing drugs is far more serious than using, particularly something as dangerous as heroin, and heroin with Fentanyl has been linked to over a hundred deaths in the past couple of months.
donnasgirl
(656 posts)Against the law to sell heroin,
Second that shit wrecks families not just the person who is hooked,
Third and the most important, the dealer was the cause of his death and should be punished no different than a drunk driver who causes a death.
Life in Prison
olddad56
(5,732 posts)to that dealer and on and on until they get to the CIA.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Anyone know?
I know he has little kids too... this just seems like a lot to be keeping around the house.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)His death was noticed because he was late picking up his kids.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)And the reason the police are looking for HIS supplier is because they're working up the chain...
I didn't come right out and say it but I guess I should stop playing coy. Now you're saying he didn't have the kids around the house which makes me even more curious about if he was dealing .
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)to not commit a crime which would land you in jail for twenty years. I doubt he was dealing.
Supposedly he only relapsed early last year after 23 years clean. I hope he did not within less than a year decide to not only embrace his addiction but to finance it illegally.
I imagine instead that he laid in a large supply. Perhaps for himself and a friend or two.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Unless of course he never was sober. Which 70 bags would certainly fit that possibility.
I'd hate to think he was a supplier. Especially if it turns out that he was responsible for dealing deadly smack.
Its sad all around but my heart will rest easier if its proven he simply met the usual junkie's death.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)He went into rehab last year for heroin.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)"Hoffman spoke candidly over the years about past struggles with drug addiction. After 23 years sober, he admitted in interviews last year to falling off the wagon and developing a heroin problem that led to a stint in rehab."
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/entertainment&id=9416584
He revved up pretty quickly to a staggering amount of usage if he was clean for that much time, relapsed once, and now is found with 70 bags.
That was my (pretty sad) point. That's all.
Thanks for keeping me accurate however. You are definitely correct.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)But holy crap! 70 bags!! Drug addiction is awful. I feel for his family.
edited to add: Again, I've never been around this stuff, but maybe it doesn't take too long to build up a tolerance.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)How 'bout 21, 22, or even 20...That's still a long time.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)I just wanted to clear that up, since possibly the poster didn't know he went to rehab last year.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)more years, it seems than he was not.
He got off dope at age 22 and only relapsed a year or so ago.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)whathehell
(29,034 posts)who were huge fans, were actually angry when we first heard.
Now I'm just despondent. He was, as many are saying, the BEST actor
of his generation, and from what I'm hearing, a genuinely nice man as well.
RIP Philip....We will miss you so very much.
RobinA
(9,886 posts)is not a lot for a guy with money and a regular habit.
creeksneakers2
(7,472 posts)That's how dealers make so much money. But for a user with access to large sums of cash, it would be foolish to buy a little at a time.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)for sale in a 70 smaller quantities. Usually if you can buy it in a quantity that breaks down into 70 smaller quantities, you have to know someone a little higher on the food chain that a guy who sales it retail to end users.
Just speculating here.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Junkies have stashes to ensure they don't run out.
Dealers deal to make money. Hoffman had plenty of money.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)My daughter's 18 months post-rehab (she's only 17). One thing I learned in family counseling is that some days one's the dealer and some days one's the buyer. That when an addict is in that circle sometimes that's just the way things shake out if one has it at the moment and another does not.
Its not really about the money - it wasn't/isn't with my daughter. It was just that she would deal the drugs when she had scored a big quantity. When she was low on drugs, she was the buyer.
Yes, many addicts deal because they need the money. Clearly Hoffman didn't fall into that category and my daughter doesn't either.
That doesn't mean she was never the school drug dealer.
FWIW, heroin was never her monkey thank god so honestly her/my experiences may be different than those addicted to that junk. I've been humbled so low on this journey with my daughter I absolutely would never dare to presume I know it all.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)Its not uncommon for an serious addict to have a 5-10 bag a day habit, in which case this was a week to week and a half supply. Someone of Hoffman's stature and financial ability would have the means to provide this supply, as most addicts know every score is a potential arrest. Its not surprising he had this amount on his person.
Horribly tragic. Weve dealt first hand with herion addiction, relapse and recovery in our family. I could write volumes on the experience.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)To the degree that anything is normal when you're dealing with addiction... I'm too cynical (from experience) and usually see large quantities of baggies as indicative of dealing.
Hang in there yourself. When its a family member whose got addiction problems, for me, it feels as though I've got that bomb strapped on my back forever. I hope that someday I'll lose my fear even as I understand that's an unlikely possibility.
alsame
(7,784 posts)people have private dealers that aren't roaming the streets of NY.
But I hope they find the dealer(s).
handmade34
(22,756 posts)"troubled Oscar-winning actor" ...strangely, I find the use of 'troubled' useless and annoying
frazzled
(18,402 posts)It's true, you're no longer troubled when you're dead.
I loved PSH's acting. I was sad. Over the course of the day, though, I just got mad. We shouldn't make him a hero out of this. He was troubled. He was clearly more screwed up than we ever knew. A lot of people--from fellow actors, directors, studio heads, agents--clearly enabled this. When you kill yourself (or engage in behavior that is very likely to get you killed), you hurt a lot of people, from your children to your public. He was troubled. One can feel both sorry and angry for him at the same time.
70 bags of heroin isn't a minor falling off the wagon of a 23-year sobriety (and I do not believe for a second he was sober for the past 23 years). That's like the Costco-value-pack size of heroin you intend to be using over the next months quite frequently.
glinda
(14,807 posts)Heroin and Dr. prescribed drugs have taken the lives of some great artists. Think Heath Ledger also in NYC. And what is with scoring next to an ATM machine. Now there seems to be a clue of point of sale.
I also agree that 70 bags is not for the "beginners" plus there seemed to be quite a few empty ones also?. It is a lot and also depending on how strong it was supposed to be.
Am sad that he did this to his self. As a recovered person, I feel it is a total waste what he did.
rocktivity
(44,572 posts)But seriously folks, you have to be extra careful with New York City heroin -- it has a track record of causing out-of-towners to OD because it's so much stronger.
rocktivity
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)i`m speculating but there is a possibility someone he knew has the same dealer
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)and the law in IL.
If the heroin in PSH's apartment is the tainted stuff, the police may believe they've found the supplier that's been providing the most recent wave of fentanyl laced junk (maybe PSH but certainly then HIS supplier going up the chain).
bucolic_frolic
(43,044 posts)So the mass media culture permeates even low life underground
operations
This death is no less a tragedy than others taken in by it all
Hollywooders live lives of illusion, some would say delusion
Wall Street is no exception, if the book "The Buy Side" by
Turney Duff can be believed
Very sad how escapism seems so inevitable and wonderful
by so many
It's a lollipop culture, feel no pain, ever
Reality is not like that
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Why should this drug dealer go to jail when worse drugs are pushed at us by our own doctors? No matter how many time I say I'm opiate sensitive they will write me prescriptions for opiates. I never ask for pain meds not even when I have a baby.
If you take too much OC they don't rush out to arrest your doctor for giving you too much drugs. You can OD On anything, even water.
It's sad he died, but it's no that particular dealers fault. He would gave gotten the dope no matter what.
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)For what possible purpose? So the DEA can bust them for over-prescribing and remove their prescriptive authority for controlled substances?
Yeah, there are doctors that may be too free with them, but the majority of doctors I have seen are so circumspect with opiates that you practically have to be writhing in agony to get them to write a prescription for opiates.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They know that crap is addictive and they offer it to you whether you request it or not. Once you get addicted to it they start cutting you off. Then you get hooked on heroin. I've been to rehab, I thought they could help me stop smoking weed, and I've heard this story over and over.
People get hurt, get hooked on pain meds, get cut off, then they find out that heroin is cheaper and more effective.
If you arrest the drug dealers you should arrest the doctors too. Otherwise, just treat the patient medically and stop attaching so much stigma to drug use. People are scared to get help with addiction cause they fear being judged like a criminal. If we stop making addicts into criminals, we have a better chance of getting them help.
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)to have a reasonably comfortable and functional last few weeks or months. You know, because they might become addicted or god forbid get kinda high.
I repeat, people who were well on their way to inevitable painful deaths, could not get enough pain medication because they might become addicts before they became corpses.
I want to know what planet you're living on, because if I'm ever sick I'm booking a fucking ticket.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I don't think that we should be running around locking people up for selling or buying drugs. People buy drugs from doctors all the time and sometimes they overdose. We should treat addiction and not attach such stigma to drug use.
840high
(17,196 posts)was given a prescription for 3 tabs of oxy. That was all - just to see me through bad pain. I never bothered to get it.
my elbow and the ER gave me one (1) Percocet. Kind of a waste, really. I took it and immediately fell asleep.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)What the hell was three tabs hoping to do? I have a history of medication refusal. I still have morphine tabs from when I fractured my skull. Never took that crap, I'd be dead cause I'm allergic. But they still give it to me no matter how many times I said I can't take it.
It seems like if you need the meds you can't get it, but if you don't need them Superbad then they prescribe it to you. I have a high tolerance for pain.
Maybe if we end the drug war, doctors can start prescribing heroin to addicts and they can take it in a medical setting.
I don't really think we should arrest doctors. Or drug dealers either.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)The PTB need to free doctors to write whatever they feel they need for the management's of a patient's pain.
I've talked to my doctor. It's ridiculous as to what hoops he has to jump through to treat his patients. The laws are bullshit. He can write me a 90 day supply of a prescription sleeping pill at my local pharmacy. But if it's mail order, he can only write me a 30 day supply. He fucks up, it's his license.
We're too worried about prescription opiate addiction in this country, so some people go though life in constant pain or are treated like criminals because they're "drug seeking." The price of having opiates is some will get addicted. Just like alcohol and tobacco.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They need to start treating the addicts like patients not criminals. This particular addict was in possession of a felony sales amount of drugs. The person who sold it to him may be another addict, as a lot of drug dealers are. We need to stop arresting for buying and selling drugs, period. Otherwise we need to arrest the doctors too, who are functioning as dealers themselves.
That's what I'm trying to say.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)My son takes a medication for his ADD. He can get a 90 day prescription if he gets it mail order, but only 30 days if he uses a local pharmacy. Just the opposite. Weird
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Opiates are absolutely essential for pain management. Throwing even more barriers in the way of compassionate treatment is fucking idiocy.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I think we should decriminalize drugs. Most dealers are addicts themselves and need to be treated medically for addiction. A lot of addicts started out using prescription opiates and found that heroin was cheaper and more effective. My father started out on opiates from a football injury in high school and He got hooked instantly. Once they cut him off he got sick and used heroin as a substitute. He died at 40 years from an opiate overdose.
He should have gotten treatment medically instead of sneaking around seedy alleys looking for dope.
I can't blame the guy who Sold him his last hit anymore than I would blame the doctor if they prescribed him OC. They provided the same function for him. Pain management. He had actually broken bones in his neck and never lived a day without pain.
reddread
(6,896 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)red dog 1
(27,771 posts)...let's not forget what else he was...a truly great actor..who will be missed...by many!
Democracy Now dedicated the entire show to him today.
From the show
On Channeling Truman Capote's voice and physicality in "Capote."
Hoffman:
"I just got all the tapes I could, the audio tapes, the video tapes, and I just started training in a way, to get as close as I could a sense of his behavior...All you have to do is really get close enough."
Philip Seymour Hoffman On Acting: An "Exhausting" And "Satisfying' Art"
http://www.npr.org/2014/02/03/270954011/philip-seymour-hoffmnan-on-acting-an-exhausting-and-satisfying-art/
whathehell
(29,034 posts)SoCalNative
(4,613 posts)I think they found the dealer.
If they have been found while he was alive he could have easily been charged with possession with intent to distribute.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)This seems like celebrity-driven policing.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)in the Rolling Stone? Now that was some crazy shit!
People seem more obsessed with this than is normal. I can't even imagine how many people die every day, every hour from opiates. I'd bet alcohol kills more people than all the illegal drugs put together. And cigarettes.
erpowers
(9,350 posts)Prescription painkillers kill more people in America than Heroin and cocaine combined. The link below has a short, but good article and some good graphics concerning prescription painkiller abuse in America. Prescription painkiller abuse needs to get much more attention than it has been getting. It seems to be a bigger problem than Heroin and Cocaine abuse.
http://www.businessinsider.com/painkillers-kill-more-americans-than-heroin-and-cocaine-2012-9
Warpy
(111,141 posts)because the income got him over dry spells in his career. Weirder things have happened.
In any case, the drug war needs to go. You can't control adults who have outgrown the need for nannies wagging their fingers at them.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Almost a brick and a half. Maybe he had a bundle a day habit so this would last a week or so.
reddread
(6,896 posts)he was nobodys victim. 10,000 a month apartment?
can someone do that much acting, that loaded and not be dealing with 70 packets?
amazing.
erpowers
(9,350 posts)I think they first said they found 2 bags. Then they said they found 10 bags. Then they said they found 50 bags. Now they say they found 70 bags.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)A heroin user will use 1 a day?, maybe more.
I could see a wealthy user buying a couple months supply at a time. An addict 'worries' about running out. They get really sick when they are out.
a day is not addict level use. More like 10.
Gerhard28
(59 posts)erpowers
(9,350 posts)After it was said that 10 bags were found in his apartment I figured he bags were small. However, I assumed addicts just bought enough drugs to get high at that moment and the went out later to buy more drugs when they wanted to get high again. So, I would never have thought 70 bags of drugs would be found in an addicts home.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)An argument could be made for why the authorities don't go after other OD cases nearly as much as they are for this case.