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Zorro

(15,740 posts)
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 07:45 PM Feb 2014

Venezuelan opposition leader's arrest sought

Source: AP

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro said Saturday that a police manhunt was underway for Leopoldo Lopez, the hard-line opposition leader behind anti-government demonstrations that ended with three deaths.

The socialist president's announcement came amid dueling pro-government and student-led opposition demonstrations held in different parts of the capital, Caracas.

Lopez "ordered all these violent kids, which he trained, to destroy the prosecutor's office and half of Caracas and then goes into hiding," Maduro told thousands of supporters at a rally to denounce what he called a U.S.-backed, "fascist" plot to oust him from power. "Turn yourself in coward."

The president said security forces acting on a Feb. 12 arrest order are now looking for Lopez, who hasn't been seen since a Wednesday night press conference in which he vowed that anti-government street protests would continue.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/venezuelan-opposition-leader-39-arrest-sought-203119469.html

60 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Venezuelan opposition leader's arrest sought (Original Post) Zorro Feb 2014 OP
"US-backed, fascist plot." Archae Feb 2014 #1
Thats all he's got. It's like "blame the Jews" in the middle east. nt 7962 Feb 2014 #2
Who in the Middle East . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #10
Its a long list and it depends on the problem. 7962 Feb 2014 #19
"But little of it has to do with the Jews." another_liberal Feb 2014 #20
Oh I am sure it is ALL Israel's fault that... EX500rider Feb 2014 #24
Israel is a wholly blameless and thoroughly altruistic entity. another_liberal Feb 2014 #26
The Palestinians have legitimate grievances with Israel.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #27
^^Truth. Just too hard to handle for some, though. nt 7962 Feb 2014 #30
I see your corruption . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #36
Yes and the entire Middle East seems to mean "Palestine" to you for some reason.. n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #40
Really? another_liberal Feb 2014 #41
Well if you declare so then gosh i must have...lol EX500rider Feb 2014 #48
The Israeli government is not the same as "The Jews." another_liberal Feb 2014 #58
OK, so the Israeli government is hold back apparently EVERY country in the MiddleEast.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #59
Oh, I'm sure they'd argue, but that wouldnt make them right. 7962 Feb 2014 #29
Yep, like I said . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #38
I know, before they got there it was a peaceful land of milk and honey.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #49
You're killin me!!! 7962 Feb 2014 #52
I never said they were completely blameless; 7962 Feb 2014 #53
What have you been smoking??? Gotta get me some of that..... Theyletmeeatcake2 Feb 2014 #21
Depends on the problem AnalystInParadise Feb 2014 #43
"The Israelis . . . aren't villains." another_liberal Feb 2014 #45
"war criminals of the worst kind" EX500rider Feb 2014 #50
They are "on a par" with themselves. another_liberal Feb 2014 #57
"Of the worst kind" "They are "on a par" with themselves" EX500rider Feb 2014 #60
His involvment jamzrockz Feb 2014 #3
Hey that kind of realism don't play well here MyNameGoesHere Feb 2014 #5
I do not believe signing a piece of paper merits life imprisonment. joshcryer Feb 2014 #16
Lopez was so innocent MyNameGoesHere Feb 2014 #17
What else did he supposedly do? joshcryer Feb 2014 #35
Blathering? My insult didn't even rise to the level of "biting" MyNameGoesHere Feb 2014 #37
"incitement"= free speech. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #42
No he didn't. joshcryer Feb 2014 #47
That would maybe apply if occupy was the teaparty MyNameGoesHere Feb 2014 #55
You're wrong. But assume you're right. joshcryer Feb 2014 #56
What was his personal involvement? nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #12
He signed a piece of paper calling for Chavez' resignation. joshcryer Feb 2014 #15
He should have been treated like Chavez was treated hack89 Feb 2014 #23
Chavez went to prison for 2 years. /nt Ash_F Feb 2014 #31
What should Chavez have gotten for his coup attempt? Also life? n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #25
well, if the guy was a fascist he'd be getting koch money.... certainot Feb 2014 #8
How do you say Koch Brothers in Spanish? La Cucaracha Hermanos? freshwest Feb 2014 #11
The Spanish translation of "The Koch Brothers" is "Los Hermanos Cucaracha". Zorra Feb 2014 #32
Yes, I was tempted to write it that way. And they will stop at nothing, either... n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #33
It's the Americans, natch Jake Stern Feb 2014 #4
Not a good sign when you have to arrest the people who disagree with you. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #6
Well I suspect most of those who threatened to assassinate the President of the United States fasttense Feb 2014 #18
I guess it's not as bad as using drones to obliterate them!!! Theyletmeeatcake2 Feb 2014 #22
domestic political opponents are not getting attacked by drones except geek tragedy Feb 2014 #51
Editorial cartoonists will be able to phone it in for the next couple years Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2014 #7
Well who didn't see this coming? sked14 Feb 2014 #9
Maduro takes another step towards being a dictator. nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #13
BBC article about Venezuela protests alp227 Feb 2014 #14
Ya Basta!!! Some history: Latin America–United States relations Zorra Feb 2014 #28
Tremendous excerpts. Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Feb 2014 #34
My pleasure. Zorra Feb 2014 #44
Well said! another_liberal Feb 2014 #39
Thanks. Zorra Feb 2014 #46
I think this is all sabbat hunter Feb 2014 #54

Archae

(46,327 posts)
1. "US-backed, fascist plot."
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:16 PM
Feb 2014

Translation: "I need this guy as my scapegoat for my own screw-ups, and blaming the US is handy too!"

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
19. Its a long list and it depends on the problem.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 09:51 AM
Feb 2014

But little of it has to do with the Jews.
If you removed Israel from the area completely, there would still be pretty much the same amount of violence.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
20. "But little of it has to do with the Jews."
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 09:57 AM
Feb 2014

I think you might get an argument on that point from a few million Palestinians, not to mention about a billion Muslims World-wide.

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
24. Oh I am sure it is ALL Israel's fault that...
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 11:02 AM
Feb 2014

.....all the world's Muslims have fewer Nobel Prizes than Trinity College, Cambridge. Nothing to do with tribalism or or a fractured religion or despotism or lack of education, or extreme patriarchy. No, it's the JEWS!!!

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
26. Israel is a wholly blameless and thoroughly altruistic entity.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 11:21 AM
Feb 2014

Alone among nations, they simply can do no wrong of any kind. Everyone knows that, right?

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
27. The Palestinians have legitimate grievances with Israel..
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:38 PM
Feb 2014

as does israel with them....but the problems I outlined are far and away the major hurdles to improvement in people's lives in the Middle East. (although i'd like to add corruption to the list)

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
36. I see your corruption . . .
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 07:26 PM
Feb 2014

. . . and raise you military occupation, internationally recognized land theft, and crimes against humanity (as in collective punishment of civilian populations).

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
48. Well if you declare so then gosh i must have...lol
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 10:26 PM
Feb 2014

I was talking about the major issues of the Middle East and none of them have to do with Israel-THE HORROR!!!! How insulting of me..

What was I thinking-of 'course the entire problems of the region are all due to JEWS!!! lol

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
58. The Israeli government is not the same as "The Jews."
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 08:30 AM
Feb 2014

To employ those two terms interchangeably only serves to obscure the real situation.

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
59. OK, so the Israeli government is hold back apparently EVERY country in the MiddleEast..
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 01:12 PM
Feb 2014

.....who knew......but yes, all Israel's fault of 'course!

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
29. Oh, I'm sure they'd argue, but that wouldnt make them right.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 03:30 PM
Feb 2014

Seems like they cant even have 2 different mosques in the same town without blowing each other up.
As for the Palestinians, they could've had their own country when Bill Clinton set up the agreement back in the 90's that gave them almost everything they wanted.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
38. Yep, like I said . . .
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 07:29 PM
Feb 2014

Israel is completely blameless. The rest of the World is just out to get them for some reason.

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
49. I know, before they got there it was a peaceful land of milk and honey..
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 10:30 PM
Feb 2014

.....with equal rights for women and gays and everybody had a unicorn.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
53. I never said they were completely blameless;
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 12:14 AM
Feb 2014

Of course Israel has made mistakes. But for some reason your second sentence seems to be true for a lot of people.

Theyletmeeatcake2

(348 posts)
21. What have you been smoking??? Gotta get me some of that.....
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 10:38 AM
Feb 2014

Sorry but I don't believe you are serious...

 

AnalystInParadise

(1,832 posts)
43. Depends on the problem
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 08:38 PM
Feb 2014

Sometimes Israel, sometimes the Palestinians, sometimes the Saudis, occasionally Hezbollah, every once in a while Egypt or Turkey. And often Iran.............The Israelis are not innocents, but they sure as shit aren't villains

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
45. "The Israelis . . . aren't villains."
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 08:46 PM
Feb 2014

No, not most of them anyway. Their current national leaders are, however, war criminals of the worst kind.

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
50. "war criminals of the worst kind"
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 10:33 PM
Feb 2014

Not much experience with war criminals I hope? Worst kind?

Wanna walk that back or change the goalposts or you can tell me which current Israeli leader is on a par with a Dr Josef Mengele?

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
57. They are "on a par" with themselves.
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 08:26 AM
Feb 2014

The crimes they have committed are well documented. You can look it up.

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
60. "Of the worst kind" "They are "on a par" with themselves"
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 01:17 PM
Feb 2014

So which is it?
The majority of war crimes in that area would be the indiscriminate firing of rockets into towns and cities and the blowing up of human bombs in pizza parlors and buses. Neither which are committed by the IDF.

"Well documented" like the "Jenin Massacre" was? That turned out to be PLO BS?

 

jamzrockz

(1,333 posts)
3. His involvment
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:45 PM
Feb 2014

in the first coup attempt against Chavez should have gotten him life in the slammers but stupid Chavez pardoned everyone involved in it.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
5. Hey that kind of realism don't play well here
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:20 PM
Feb 2014

DU backs the neoliberal agenda in South America don't you know? You're not allowed to have a democracy if it isn't USA approved. Duh! Now where is my IMF and World bank manual. I need to check on something.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
17. Lopez was so innocent
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 09:03 AM
Feb 2014

he only signed a paper. If that is your understanding of the events, then discussion on this would be a waste of air.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
35. What else did he supposedly do?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 06:49 PM
Feb 2014

If that is all you have, blathering insults, then continuing would be a waste of time.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
37. Blathering? My insult didn't even rise to the level of "biting"
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 07:28 PM
Feb 2014

He incited and participated in a group which he helped found, to overthrow a legally elected President. Here we would call that treason. So don't play all innocent with just signing a paper, you know there is more to it than that.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
42. "incitement"= free speech.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 08:38 PM
Feb 2014

"participation in a group" is not a crime

You still haven't pointed to a single thing he DID to try to illegally remove Chavez from office.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
47. No he didn't.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 10:08 PM
Feb 2014

Calling for peaceful protest is not inciting overthrow. Occupy did that, I suppose you were against Occupy.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
55. That would maybe apply if occupy was the teaparty
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 01:18 AM
Feb 2014

they are not. This is a USA trained neoliberal that wants to turn back the gains the poor have received. Occupy did not fight for wall street if memory serves.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
56. You're wrong. But assume you're right.
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 02:11 AM
Feb 2014

Only one kind of protest is legitimate?

The right wingers and their free speech zones would agree with you.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
11. How do you say Koch Brothers in Spanish? La Cucaracha Hermanos?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:05 AM
Feb 2014

Last edited Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:41 AM - Edit history (1)

No way to trace that money. He may be in Colorado now...

The other Koch Brother: Bill's got a lot of money. Different agenda.



The North Fork Valley, near where Bill Koch has consolidated his power.

Oh to be the geeky younger brother. It’s never easy. But try to be the geeky younger brother to two ideologue billionaires who are trying to take over the world and, with the help of the Supreme Court and a lot of bought-off politicians, seem to be succeeding. The big brothers in this case are David and Charles Koch, owners of Koch Industries, the second-largest privately owned company in the U.S., and among the nation’s top polluters. In recent years, the Koch Brothers have been expanding their empire deep into American politics. Thanks to the Citizens United Supreme Court decision, they’ve been able to freely fund Tea Party and ultra-conservative organizations to the tune of millions of dollars. Now they’re also heavily funding the anti-union push in Wisconsin, and have become the bane of liberals everywhere.

And then there’s William, one of two other Koch Brothers. Like his older brothers, Bill is a billionaire. Like his brothers, he’s a fossil-fuel-powered corporate titan and an ardent consumer of political influence. Nevertheless, the tendency to throw Bill into the same category as his older brothers is simply unfair. For one thing, he’s been at odds with his siblings for much of the last three decades, even spending a good deal of time battling them in court. For another thing, Bill Koch is much more complicated than Charles and David. He’s more opportunistic, less ideologically constrained and, in some ways, maybe even more powerful. And while his older brothers seem to be bent on creating a whole new über-capitalistic political order, Bill’s goals are harder to decipher: He’s donated to Al Gore’s campaign and Richard Pombo’s, fought against wind power and owns coal mines, and over the past two decades has amassed a tremendous amount of influence on the aspen and oak covered high plateaus, and in the rural towns below, of the North Fork Valley of Western Colorado. Now he seems to be reaching for more.

Like so many American success stories of the 20th Century, the Koch family’s was built on oil. Fred Koch, the father of Bill, Charles, David and Freddie, figured out a new way to refine oil (or possibly stole the idea from other oil companies), and got rich developing the method in the Soviet Union in the 1920s and 1930s. He returned to the U.S. in the 1940s and started the Rock Island Oil & Refining Company. When Fred died in 1967 Charles, the second oldest brother, took the helm of the company and changed the name to Koch Industries. Today, the company rakes in some $100 billion per year and has 70,000 employees.

Bill never really fit into the family or the family corporation’s mold. As a youngster, he was reportedly jealous of his older brothers’ athletic prowess and success, which caused problems all through childhood and then again when Bill, Charles and David were all at MIT (a fourth brother, Freddie, went to Harvard, studied playwriting, and remains out of the limelight). Later, when Bill joined Koch Industries as a consultant and then as President of Corporate Development, the old family friction continued. Things didn’t go well for Bill, and in 1982 he attempted a corporate coup-de-tat on his brothers. It failed, and he was canned. But Bill sued the company and David and Charles, ultimately walking away with a reported $260 million.


A lot more, working links and pros and cons in comments on that Koch brother at link:

http://jonathanpthompson.blogspot.com/2011/02/other-koch-brother-same-fortune.html

If this guy is a rich oligarch, he's got a good hiding place and the chances he will never be caught, if he did any of this, are slim. As far as American influence, I doubt 'the USA government' is going to involve itself.

We're trying to get out of the foreign energy dramas. But the Koch brothers don't respect any national border and may be Best Friends Forever with him.

We don't know, we're only speculating. If he did what Maduro claims, caused the death of three people and tore up part of Caracas, he should be in jail.

JMHO.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
32. The Spanish translation of "The Koch Brothers" is "Los Hermanos Cucaracha".
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 03:55 PM
Feb 2014

You were close, and you definitely spelled their name in Spanish correctly.


Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
4. It's the Americans, natch
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:52 PM
Feb 2014

What proof? Maduro says so! That's proof enough for the legions he and Hugo bought off with refrigerators, TVs and other goods "liberated" from those wicked, bloodsucking merchants.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
18. Well I suspect most of those who threatened to assassinate the President of the United States
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 09:03 AM
Feb 2014

disagreed with his politics. Many of them were arrest and all of them were questioned.

How is that any different?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
51. domestic political opponents are not getting attacked by drones except
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 12:05 AM
Feb 2014

in the fevered imaginations of the Timothy McVeigh crowd

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
7. Editorial cartoonists will be able to phone it in for the next couple years
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:25 PM
Feb 2014

Since conveniently enough they can just reuse their last decades worth of cartoons about Zimbabwe.



 

sked14

(579 posts)
9. Well who didn't see this coming?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:31 AM
Feb 2014

And throw in the "blame the US" for everything bad happening in VN instead of your own corrupt govt.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
28. Ya Basta!!! Some history: Latin America–United States relations
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 01:33 PM
Feb 2014

Last edited Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:23 PM - Edit history (1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America%E2%80%93United_States_relations

The Seven Loose Pieces of the Global Jigsaw Puzzle
(Neoliberalism as a puzzle: the useless global unity which fragments and destroys nations)
(by Subcomandante Marcos)

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel...


From Fire to Autonomy: Zapatistas, 20 Years of Walking Slowly

Speaking in the mountains of Chiapas, Mexico, on a cold drizzly New Year's Eve, the Zapatista Comandante Hortensia addressed the crowd: "Twenty-five or 30 years ago we were completely deceived, manipulated, subjugated, forgotten, drowned in ignorance and misery." She was communicating the official words of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN) on the 20th anniversary of their rebellion, when thousands of indigenous people rose up in arms, took over dozens of major towns and villages in this southern state, and declared "enough is enough, never again will there be a homeland that doesn't include us."

Comandante Hortensia went on to explain how over the past two decades, they have constructed their own autonomous government, complete with their own health and education system, based in the indigenous traditions of their ancestors. Despite the continual efforts of the "neoliberal bad government" to displace them from their land, the Zapatistas have successfully recuperated thousands of acres of land on which they have constructed communities that are governed "from the bottom up." Community members participate in rotating government positions that operate under the democratic principle of "mandar obedeciendo" (commanding by obeying).

The Mexican government has attempted to introduce social programs with the goal of co-opting and dividing the indigenous population in Zapatista areas. However, the indigenous rebels, who reject all forms of government handouts, have successfully resisted co-optation. If you ask a Zapatista how many are in the ranks, they will just respond "somos un chingo," which loosely translates into "there are a whole lot of us." Official estimates put their numbers at 250,000 people or roughly 10 percent of the population of the state of Chiapas.
snip---
On January 1, 1994, the NAFTA free trade agreement entered Mexico with vigor, promising foreign investment and economic prosperity at the expense of the plunder of natural resources. NAFTA is largely credited for flooding the Mexican market with subsidized corn from the United States, which decimated farmers' livelihoods and provoked massive migration to the United States. Two years prior to NAFTA's implementation, former President Carlos Salinas opened the floodgates to land privatization by reforming Article 27, which had protected communally owned land known as ejidos, created during the Mexican revolution. Thus, the introduction of NAFTA provided the perfect context for the uprising of the indigenous guerillas who formed the EZLN.


The above democratic Zapatista society is exactly why Wall St. banksters are financing and using their neoliberal cabin boy Lopez to propagandize and sell out the people of Venezuela to Wall St. and prevent democracy from growing and succeeding in Venezuela. They cannot afford to let democracy take root in Venezuela, and they resent not being able to exploit the people and privatize and own the resources that belong to the people of Venezuela. If people all over the world rejected the greed of Wall Street's blueprinted global exploitation systems, the banksters will lose their power Wall St. sends it's privately owned US Government World Police to do everything and anything to disrupt fledgling democracies and prevent them from growing and succeeding. Genuine democracy is the antithesis of Wall St. globalism and imperialism.

“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.


Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”
― Arundhati Roy, War Talk


¡Ya basta!

Yankee go home! Hasta la victoria siempre.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
46. Thanks.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 08:49 PM
Feb 2014

Like so many others, I'm sickened by Wall St. and other wealthy private interests using our government as a tool for capitalist deception, conquest, and oppression.

sabbat hunter

(6,829 posts)
54. I think this is all
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 12:31 AM
Feb 2014

a distraction by Manduro to take people's focus off the problems in Venezuela. You know like shortages of staple goods, very high inflation, a very high murder rate with the police either looking the other way or actively involved in the murders.

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