Venezuela's poor join protests as turmoil grips Chávez's revolution

[Turborama]

Source: The Guardian

The poor neighbourhood of Petare in western Caracas is not an obvious hotbed of anti-government sentiment. In the past, its residents have been among the major beneficiaries of Venezuela's public health and education campaigns, and an economic policy that resulted in one of the sharpest falls in inequality in the world.

But as demonstrations sweep several major cities, even the people of Petare have taken to the streets to protest again surging inflation, alarming murder rates and shortages of essential commodities.

Jorge Farias, a self-employed motorcycle taxi driver, once voted for the late president Hugo Chávez, but this week he joined opposition rallies.

"This country can't stay like this for much longer. If it's not lack of food, it is the fear of being killed when you step out of your house to go to work", he said. "I would like to wake up without this fear," he added. "I have never seen this country in this state of total collapse. We are going from bad to worse, and we are losing faith".



Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/20/venezuelas-poor-protests-chavez-revolution

[Turborama]

1. "Venezuela Erupts"

Hugo Chavez may have spewed hate, but he always kept a lid on repression. That may be over now.

By William J. Dobson

The tremors have been building for years, but on Wednesday night Venezuela was convulsed in a wave of violence as the government of President Nicolas Maduro appeared to enforce a brutal crackdown on nationwide protests. Streets were filled with tear gas and the crackle of gunfire, as National Guard units and National Police came out in force. Bands of regime supporters—paramilitary gangs known as colectivos—swarmed neighborhoods and public squares on their motorcycles, firing live ammunition at anyone who remained in the open. Some stormed into apartment buildings in search of protesters. The crackdown extended from Caracas to Maracaibo, Maracay, Valencia, and nearly every major city across the South American country. Venezuela’s cities have become notoriously dangerous in recent years, as the country’s crime and murder rate soared. But on Wednesday, Venezuelan cities weren’t simply dangerous; they were a war zone.

As startling as the violence itself was the fact that the government gave no warning or explanation in advance. In a rambling national address earlier that day, President Maduro spoke of the need for peace—then praised the work of paramilitary thugs and promised to target members of Popular Will, a leading opposition party. Its leader, Leopoldo Lopez, was spending his second night in a military prison, after surrendering himself to authorities on Tuesday to face trumped-up charges implicating him for the death of three Venezuelans at protests. Even if Lopez, one of the opposition’s best-known leaders, is imprisoned, Maduro isn’t acting like the man with the upper hand. In his remarks Wednesday, he seemed erratic and unsure of himself, which only fuels rumors that he may have diminishing control over the state and its security forces.

The most focused target of the regime’s repression has been the Popular Will party. Lopez is being held in the Ramo Verde military prison, a small facility that sits on a mountainside about an hour outside of Caracas. The remote prison has held other high-value political prisoners during Chavez’s years in power. On Tuesday, security personnel raided the Popular Will party’s headquarters in search of their second in command, Carlos Vecchio. Vecchio, a lawyer and activist, has been forced to go into hiding, and on Wednesday President Maduro confirmed that a warrant had been issued for his arrest. There were also unconfirmed reports that a warrant would soon be released for David Smolansky, the next highest party leader. A senior member of the party confirmed Thursday morning that most of the party’s top leadership has either been detained or gone underground.

That may be the key difference between Venezuela today and before: For all of the combative rhetoric and venom spewed by Hugo Chavez, the Comandante always kept a lid on widespread repression. The late strongman was expert at verbally provoking and demonizing his opponents, but the threshold for a large-scale crackdown was never crossed. Chavez would unsettle his enemies, entertain half measures, or defuse a situation by simply directing his abuse at a wholly new target. But Maduro has never possessed his predecessor’s confidence, communication, or political canny, and he inherited a government rife with factions. Since his narrow election last April, the fear has been that Chavismo’s odd blend of bravado and insecurity would swing wildly in his hands, especially as the country dire economic conditions worsened. Early Thursday morning, a senior adviser to a Popular Will party leader described the situation as “extremely fluid,” before expressing surprise at Maduro’s decision to ramp up the confrontation. “The government keeps upping the ante,” he said.

Continues: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/02/nicolas_maduro_s_venezuela_erupts_in_violence_the_venezuelan_president_appears.html

[fasttense]

2. Our Tax dollars at work turning Venezuela into another Pinochet Chile

It's amazing what our tax dollars can do to another country.

There is a line item in Obama's budget to fund opposition parties in Venezuela. We are creating havoc in Venezuela.

Leopoldo Lopez and his US funded party lost the election big time and can never get elected because of his elitist background. He is a member of the 1% and was educated at Harvard. So, now he wants to illegally gain the presidential position with the help of the Obama administration and OUR TAX DOLLARS.

Why Obama hates the socialist government of Venezuela is obvious. Don't be fooled by the propaganda. Democracy Now has an excellent piece on this. http://www.democracynow.org/2014/2/20/venezuelan_protests_another_attempt_by_us

[penultimate]

4. Could any country pay you enough money to attack the US from within?

The only way throwing money at the issue would work is if there was already a large amount of discontent to tap into.

[fasttense]

5. Yes, money is buying up the US as we speak..er..write

Money got us the Teabagger party. Money is what keeps misinforming the Christian Taliban in the US. Money is why RepubliCONS still get elected and why most US citizens vote for multi-millionaires.

Yes, money can buy riots and murders in other countries like it does here in the US.

Just remember who paid for Pinochet's Chile.

[penultimate]

6. Of course money funds movements

Money is needed by both the right and the left. However, what I asked was the amount it would take for a foreign government to pay you off so that you take to the streets in a revolution that you don't agree or sympathize with?

[EmilyAnne]

7. You're right, but its a lost cause to argue with certain people.

Clueless and privileged people dismiss the desperation fueling the popular movements of Venezuela and Ukraine.

[fasttense]

71. Be Aware of these Anti Venezuela posts.

Something strange is going on here at DU about Venezuela. Every time I post anything that is in support of the current democratically elected government, I get a response from a well orchestrated group of posters who tell me how wrong I am.

And it is constant, non-stop, as if they made money from every post they placed.

AND One of them slipped up and posted this:

"springchick

64. Who's repeating Fox talking points?

Is this the best you got? Accusing us of using fox talking points?
Sad and pathetic."

I find it weird that springchick calls herself us. It's not what I would ever say on a post even if I had 100 friends who agreed with what I said.

Beware, these anti-Venezuela posts are something more than regular members posting.

[springchick]

73. See post 72.

[Spouting Horn]

106. So why is it OK

for Cuban mercenaries to gun down protestors?

[Judi Lynn]

147. Please provide a legitimate link to your charge. Thank you. n/t

[EX500rider]

119. hahahahaha...

"Something strange is going on here at DU about Venezuela. Every time I post anything that is in support of the current democratically elected government, I get a response from a well orchestrated group of posters who tell me how wrong I am"

Been on the internet much? You post something on the internet and some people don't agree with you?
Who ever heard of such a thing! Must be a plot you say....

[fasttense]

123. You should know. You are one of them.n/t

[EX500rider]

127. Maybe you should lay this theory out for closer inspection..

.......so, everybody who is "anti-Venz." (meaning doesn't like Maduro) is paid by......hmmm, lets say an oil company since they are obviously (to you that is) behind this "coup" and we get paid......by the word? (no, my post r 2 short for that..) By day? Anywho, we, some nebulously large group of anonymous internet posters follow you around and disagree with everything you say.
(do you have an ex-wife?) I personally signed up 3 years ago and waited to activate my cell when the time was right, to jump to the defense of some Venezuelan politician I never heard of till 2 days ago And we all want to turn Venezuela into a fascist police state owned by Royal Dutch Shell......no, Mobil.
And we make enough money as US citizens to survive off this.....or is it a hobby or maybe we've actually all been outsourced and we all have IP's from Mumbai....that's it!

Brilliant deduction, my Dear Watson! (don't quit your day job just yet though)

[springchick]

128. I nominate myself as cook for this "group".

My darling hubby says I make the best damn Beef Stroganoff he's ever tasted.

[EX500rider]

130. OK, we meet at the safe house in A-Dam..

......don't forget your secret decoder ring!

But do bring everything to make the Beef Stroganoff while we teleconference with the secret Nazi moon base! And maybe a Beef Wellington the next time?

[springchick]

131. Consider it a done deal.

Poster seems a might paranoid, maybe he/she needs a heaping helping of my Stroganoff?

[dotymed]

13. I do not believe it works that way

A foreign govt. (America) spends millions to create shortages and make life intolerable under a Socialist govt.
The residents of that country eventually revolt. All they know is life has become intolerable and their govt. should be able to help them.

That is the way it happened in Chile.

[EX500rider]

47. "A foreign govt. spends millions to create shortages and make life intolerable under a Socialists.."

Wrong, in this case Venezuela's problems are all self inflicted....bad economic government policies like rigid price controls during heavy inflation plus driving away foreign and domestic investment with confiscatationatory actions on top of mismanagement and corruption.

What action can you point to that the US did to "create shortages" in Venz?

[MADem]

117. Of course they are all self-inflicted. The poster is trying to

compare Chile (what kind of "oil economy does Chile have? An "import" one, that's what!) with the a nation with some of the largest oil reserves in the world...and wants that "Waaah, no money!" claim to stick. Oil is a NATIONALIZED asset in VZ and has been for many years, now.

It's absurd.

The Boligarchs have made off with all the loot, and the Venezuelan people are left holding the bag.

The people who feel the hyperinflation the most are the POOR.

It's no mystery why they're in the street--they can't afford to buy food, the very food that isn't on the shelves in the supermarkets because Maduro hasn't paid his damn bills.

[dotymed]

125. I am OBVIOUSLY not a Venezuelan expert.

Are you? Your reply was rude enough and dismissive of anyone else's opinion, I was not sure.

Here is Paul Jay of the REALNEWS and a Venezuelan expert.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11517

A few FACTS: Obama has inserted a "line item" in the budget, just for Venezuela. Even bush did not go that far.
The street protestors are majority upper middle class, even the college students are mainly from elite private universities.
hopefully you will watch or read this interview (as I did) and learn a lot (as I did) and not be so rude to anyone that doesn't hold your views/values.
BTW, Chile had a popularly elected, Socialist govt. just like Venezuela...not oil.

[EX500rider]

129. The "real Venz. expert" he is interviewing...

....isn't the most neutral source.....lol

Gregory Wilpert is the founder of Venezuelanalysis.com....

Gregory Wilpert, a founder and editor, describes the website as "mostly pro-Chavez"; Wilpert's wife Carol Delgado was named Hugo Chávez's Consul General in New York in 2008. The Global Post described Wilpert as "perhaps the most prominent Chavista".

Sorry, fan-boy bloggers need not apply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelanalysis.com

[Judi Lynn]

148. Maybe you'd be good enough to post any lies in that publication.

I've never seen anyone produce even one instance of his publication putting out lies.

Go find proof of V.A.'s dishonesty to give your comments substance.

[EX500rider]

153. Judy you think fan-boi blogs are a legitimate source of news...

....I disagree.

I wonder if you would have considered one of Bush's self-described fans whose wife got given a plum job in NY city from Bush would have been a good source for unbiased reporting about the Bush administration....somehow i doubt it.

[Judi Lynn]

160. Go right ahead, and point out any LIES and distortions democrats here have posted

from the publications you hope to describe as "fan-boi."

Just get in there and bring back any LIES you find to prove your point.

In the meantime, you have the choice to either read them, or not.

Serious people don't have the time to waste with crap, and they know nothing meaningful can be gained with crap, either.

That's the province of those who believe they want to win any way possible. They don't realize the other people DO look for the truth, and they also know whom to trust after studying their sources long enough.

[EX500rider]

163. So in other words....yes..

.....you would think it's a good idea to base your opinion of the Bush Administration on a Bush fan-boi blog whose wife was given a US consulate position in NY by Bush. I would recomend a bit more skepticism at your end but that's up to you.

P.S. here at DU we like to refer to us as "members of the Democratic party". not "democrats".

[Judi Lynn]

168. "Here at D.U. "we" like to refer to us as "members of the Democratic party..."

Really? You imagine this board was designed with U.S. American Democrats, and progressives, liberals, and even people who regard themselves as democrats from other countries? I certainly do.

Where does the "we" come in, in your estimation? At least you didn't type "the Democrat Party." What a generous gesture.

Back to what I said, why don't you bring some proof of the LIES people can find in this publication? That's all that's needed to prove these writers are up to no good. You can't show they are dishonest because they don't think, act, or live like right-wingers. They are decent people.

[EX500rider]

185. "You can't show they are dishonest because they don't think, act, or live like right-wingers...

.....They are decent people."

Really, so you know them personally and can vouch they are good people huh? I doubt that.

[EX500rider]

167. "from the publications you hope to describe as "fan-boi." "

I describe? No, no, that is a self-description I believe..

"Gregory Wilpert, a founder and editor, describes the website as "mostly pro-Chavez"; Wilpert's wife Carol Delgado was named Hugo Chávez's Consul General in New York in 2008. The Global Post described Wilpert as "perhaps the most prominent Chavista".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelanalysis.com

Feel free to be pedantic and point out he calls himself "pro-chavista", not a fan-boi but it translates just fine for the rest of us.

[MADem]

145. I certainly have a better grasp of the situation on the ground that you do.

Look, if Maduro decides to resign, the 'opposition' won't sack his government and take over--his vice president, a gent named Rangel, would carry on smartly. Then they'd hold elections. Think Nixon, think WATERGATE. Gerald Ford wasn't a Democrat, you know.

All these coup floggers are just spinning for effect, trying to mount a bit of sympathy for that nitwit ruining VZ, Maduro. VZ has assets--the biggest one is some of the largest oil reserves in the world. But all the oil wealth in the world is useless if a) No one maintains the infrastructure; b) No one controls spending and tries to make good investments; c) The Boligarch-cronies are allowed to rob the treasury blind (something that has been getting worse and worse as Chavez got sicker and sicker, then died, and Maduro started ignoring the mess); d) Maduro takes all his orders from Cuba.

And that's just for starters.

Chile wasn't sitting on massive oil reserves. In fact, they import their oil. They didn't have the luxury of an embarrassment of natural assets like VZ does. It's just not the same situation at all...but go ahead and pretend it is, if you'd like.

[dotymed]

126. check out

the story at DEMOCRACYNOW.ORG for further confirmation.
Sorry, I did not check free republic....

[MADem]

146. What's that supposed to mean? Check Free Republic?

Snark and cheap shots don't strengthen your arguments, you know.

[Judi Lynn]

151. One of the creepiest anti-Chavez posters here was caught

Last edited Mon Feb 24, 2014, 06:10 PM - Edit history (1)

by an outstanding DU'er bragging about his efforts here, to his brethren at Freeperworld. He seemed convinced he really had DU'ers on the run.

(He also pompously supported Pinochet, incidently.)

[EX500rider]

120. And as for this "creating shortages" theory of yours..

.....how does that fit in with the US being Venz.'s largest export AND import partner?

[fasttense]

14. That's not how they do it in the US

Why do you think they do it differently in Venezuela?

The teabaggers are not bribed outright. They are stoked with false information and fake abuses to hate Obama. Then the Koch brothers send over busses and fund organizations to gather the foolish for protests. Busses may not be used in Venezuela but the same propaganda is spewed.

Otherwise, why would people want to put into power a Harvard educated pampered uber rich member of the 1%?

Propaganda is their weapon of choice just like it is here.

[EX500rider]

49. Otherwise, why would people want to put into power a Harvard educated pampered...etc"

Yeah, a degree in Sociology, Masters in Public policy, former mayor in Caracas from 2000-2008.....gee, who would elect that? lol


"He studied at the Colegio Santiago de León de Caracas and graduated from the Hun School of Princeton. He graduated from Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio in 1993, where he received a degree in Sociology. He subsequently attended Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government where he obtained a Master of Public Policy in 1996. In 2007, he received an honorary Doctor of Laws Degree from Kenyon."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopoldo_L%C3%B3pez_Mendoza
I keep hearing what a "RW Fascists" this guy is...anybody have any proof of that or is it because he went to school in the US?

[fasttense]

55. How much wealth and connections do you need to get to Harvard???

Even in the US, many people still can't afford to attend Princeton and Harvard with scholarships. They are designed for the upper crust and NOT for the average person.

That same wealth and connections can buy you a lot of mayorship's.

Watch the link and open your mind to the truth.

[springchick]

60. So what?

That makes him a tool of the US government?
Whose truth?

[fasttense]

63. It makes him one of the uber rich 1%

who want to make sure the poor know their place and stay there.

It makes him out of touch with the average person and a very poor representative of the people.

Behind EVERY Great Fortune is a Great Crime.

[springchick]

64. Who's repeating Fox talking points?

Is this the best you got? Accusing us of using fox talking points?
Sad and pathetic.

[fasttense]

66. Accusing us????

us? Exactly who is us? That is a very strange thing to say. How many of us are there here on DU?

I figured something was up since every time I post I get an immediate reply to my every post that argues in favor of the current Democratically elected Venezuelan Government. I wonder if I can alert on an orchestrated attack? Something funny is going on here and DU should take a careful look at your group.

Tells us exactly which of the us are you? Paid RepubliCON troll? NSA? Uber Rich 1% afraid for your wealth?

PS. I captured your comment so go ahead and edit it out.

[springchick]

67. You've accused me and another member in this thread, that's the us.

Why would I edit my post?

[fasttense]

74. Riiiiiiiight

I always use the us reference when I post....Not.

Here's another question for you.

Why is it every time I post, you or some other venom filled anti-Venezuela poster immediately, and I mean in minutes, attacks me?

It's as if you are trying to put up as many posts as possible. Like it's worth something to you and your group.

I think you and your group are NOT normal DU members. You are up to something wicked.

[springchick]

75. A bit paranoid aren't you?

I'm not posting anti Venezuela, that's your interpretation.

I never claimed to be normal, hubby always tells me I'm abnormal.

[fasttense]

81. No just realistic. I noticed another person from your group slipped up too

and used WE to refer to her/himself.

You guys need to get better at this.

[springchick]

83. Wow, I belong to a group now?

Lucky me.

[EX500rider]

85. Don't ya know, if you have different opinion on the problems in Venz..

....you MUST be a paid RW stooge who hates democracy and longs for the iron fist of Fascism. lol

[springchick]

90. I'm beginning to understand that now.

I guess you and I are now a "group" of us.

[EX500rider]

137. "You are up to something wicked."

Please elaborate on this, i am out of fiction on the Kindle...

[Judi Lynn]

149. You absolutely are in good company.

Anyone can smell the difference a mile away between Democrats and progressives, and the right-wingers who try to infest this place to disrupt any communications among progressives regarding ANY and ALL Latin American politics. They despise and attempt to attack ALL Latin American leftists, except for those who attempted to make room for Inacio Lula da Silva, the former President of Brazil, whom they tried to claim was the "good" leftist as opposed to the others.

They had a hard time explaining why Lula was a staunch aly of Hugo Chavez. They always changed the subject when it was pointed out to them.

Every slur, every dirty, unworthy thing they've said about Maduro, they already said, with the exception he was a bus driver as a young man, about Chavez. They also went out of their way during the later part of Hugo Chavez's horrendous suffering to make fun of Chavez' appearance as he was being overtaken by his fatal illness.

Real class acts, all of them.

[EX500rider]

154. I know, how could anybody think Maduro was anything but God like?

Last edited Mon Feb 24, 2014, 06:00 PM - Edit history (1)

Has to be a RW plot if somebody doesn't agree with you in all things....lol

I mean, he has done just a great job what with the run-away inflation and 10 times the US murder rate and the shortages of basic necessities and electricity.. or were those the "successes"?

[Judi Lynn]

161. Take all the time you need to find any instance of any democrat worshipping

any of the human beings in office in the Americas.

I've never seen it done, and I've been here a long time.

In the meantime, try bringing in some real information, yourself, and start trying to break yourself of the unwholesome habit of working with no real information and pretending you know what you're doing, and if you can manage to stand on your own, veer away from claiming democrats here view anyone as "godlike."

That's a simple waste of time, unsupported by facts, of course.

[EX500rider]

164. "That's a simple waste of time, unsupported by facts, of course."

Would be your opinion on the matter. Of course. Mine is there is and has been some definite worshipping going on, ymmv.

In the meantime trying to be a bit more pleasant might be a good idea also.

[EX500rider]

158. "It makes him one of the uber rich 1%"

Yeah, 1st place all the 1%'s want to live, murder and kidnapping capital of South America, Caracas.
Please, the 1% never even heard of this guy while anchored off Monte Carlo in their 400 ft yacht's with helicopters and submarines and ex-Israeli Mossad guys for security. Not even a blip on their radar.

[EX500rider]

86. "How much wealth and connections do you need to get to Harvard???"

Does it matter? Only the poor can be elected or what? Oh no, he has a good education, the horror!!

And I keep asking for some proof that Lopez is a RW fascist......chirp, chirp, go the crickets..

[EX500rider]

98. Well his recent demands of the government don't sound too Fascist like..

Lopez's demands included: Disarmament of paramilitary groups, a halt to the violent oppression against civilians, and the freedom of detained students and political prisoners.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/02/venezuela-end-petro-populism-2014219502850774.html

[EX500rider]

141. So you are saying politicians who studied in foreign schools..

....shouldn't be elected?

So Bill Clinton, Rhodes Scholar....you know that means he went to school in Oxford, in the United kingdom!!!!
The HORROR!!!

He MUST be a RW fascist who hate's his own country!!!! right? I mean, what else could it be, am i right? lol

[dotymed]

12. Please read or watch the true story a DEMOCRACY NOW.ORG

It seems that Obama is even more anxious than bush to control Venezuela.
Obama even has a "line item" in the budget for Venezuelan operations...

I am surprised that no drones (that we are aware of) have been deployed there.

[Zorra]

17. Democracy Now! is a progressive left, pro-democracy site, and therefore has no credibility here at

newfreerepublic democratic underground.

What is happening in Venezuela today?

GEORGE CICCARIELLO-MAHER: Well, there’s a great deal happening, and I think you’ve got your finger on the fact that this is a crucial test for the Maduro government. And I think it’s our obligation to put it in its broad historical context to understand who’s acting. And I think there’s a tendency—there’s an unfortunate tendency, if you follow Twitter or if you’re on the Internet, that, you know, in this sort of post-Occupy moment and in the aftermath of the Arab Spring, every time we see—every time we see protesters in the streets, we start retweeting it, and we start to sort of, you know, feel sympathetic, without necessarily knowing what the back story is. And I think we’re obligated to do that here. And once we look into this back story, what we see is yet another attempt in a long string of attempts of the Venezuelan opposition to oust a democratically elected government, this time taking advantage of student mobilizations against—you know, ostensibly against insecurity and against economic difficulties to do that.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, George Ciccariello, who is Leopoldo López? The Washington Post describes him as a 42-year-old, Harvard-educated, left-leaning moderate. What do you know about his history?

GEORGE CICCARIELLO-MAHER: Left-leaning moderate would be quite a stretch. Leopoldo López represents the far right of the Venezuelan political spectrum. In terms of his personal and political history, here’s someone who was educated in the United States from prep school through graduate school at the Harvard Kennedy School. He’s descended from the first president of Venezuela, purportedly even from Simón Bolívar. In other words, he’s a representative of this traditional political class that was displaced when the Bolivarian revolution came to power.

In terms of his very specific political history, his first party that he came to power as a representative of, Primero Justicia, was formed through the—at the intersection of corruption and U.S. intervention—corruption by his mother purportedly funneling funds, you know, from Venezuela’s oil company into this new party and, on the other hand, funding from the NED, from USAID, from U.S. government institutions, to so-called civil society organizations. Now, after—as Chávez came to power, the traditional parties of Venezuela collapsed, and both the domestic opposition and the U.S. government needed to create some other vehicle through which to oppose the Chávez government, and this party that Leopoldo López came to power through is one of those—is one of those vehicles. So this is really where he’s coming from.

[Bacchus4.0]

19. I'd go with the assessment of the Venezuelan guy in the barrio in the OP over the US professor

and his chavez man-crush.

[joshcryer]

21. Everyone who says Lopez is behind the protests is enabling Lopez and the opposition.

There is no leader of these protests. If people want to put it into the completely wrong narrative, they may do so, but it will not help the situation, because if the right wing opposition gets legitimized as the "face" of the protests, then it will become a shitty situation.

[snooper2]

10. um no, not really, Venezuela has a pretty shitty government right now

but don't let that stop any of your ranting LOL...


Continue please!

[fasttense]

16. You really buy that propaganda?

Why would the average Venezuela want to put into power a Harvard educated pampered member of the 1%.

They don't because he certainly didn't win the elections.

[joshcryer]

22. They don't and anyone who says he is behind it is enabling him.

The fact that he allowed himself to be arrested means he wants to be the face of the protests.

If people would look at what the students and the people want rather than making it about Lopez we could have a good resolution. Instead it looks like Lopez is more and more legitimized by those saying he is the leader.

[bitchkitty]

29. We? n/t

[joshcryer]

30. 'we' as in anyone who wants a good resolution?

[fasttense]

80. One of the anti-Venezuela posters used the word us

when responding to me. And every single time I post something about Venezuela, I get attacked immediately.

I think something strange is going on with these anti-Venezuela posts. I think they are not regular DU members.

I noticed you caught on to it too.

[EX500rider]

118. "One of the anti-Venezuela posters"

There aren't any of those in this thread that I can see. There are some who think the current government in Venz. is not doing a good job at all. Who exactly has been "anti-Venz."? (you may now pick one of three: ranting side thread, shifting goal posts or changing definition to suit need)

[fasttense]

122. Check with your other cyber stalker friends err screen names

they should know.

[EX500rider]

124. Been on the interwebs much?

yes, everybody with a different view point then you has joined a group to "stalk you"....you get funnier every post really, keep it up!

[EX500rider]

132. ranting side thread, good choice! n/t

[bitchkitty]

152. It's been going on here for years.

Same names, with an occasional cheerleader/sock puppet/whatever thrown in.

It's actually kind of amusing sometimes.

[EX500rider]

155. It is, isn't it?

Last edited Mon Feb 24, 2014, 06:01 PM - Edit history (1)

The same confused posters who think this is "CommunistUnderground" always jumping to the defense of some very inept governing down in Venezuela where every news org. in the world, BBC, Reuters, Al Jazeera, etc, are in on a plot to over throw the current government and install a RW fascist government jointly owned by Mobil and the US government. And every article about it is pure BS and misquoted and mis-translated except fan-boi blogs run by self-described Chavista's who's wives were given plum diplomatic jobs in NY.

[bitchkitty]

165. Some are. Most, like you, are just boring. n/t

[EX500rider]

166. And some are just plain unpleasant...right? n/t

[bitchkitty]

171. It gets a bit wearying, this level of ignorance.

It's hard not to be unpleasant. But I'll try to give you the benefit of the doubt (maybe you're drunk?), and fill you in:

1. The Cold War is over and has been for many years.
2. Socialism is not Communism.

You're welcome!

[EX500rider]

172. "It gets a bit wearying, this level of ignorance."

Yes it does, but don't worry, we'll still try to straighten you out.....we understand it's hard for you not to be unpleasant, frankly it shows sometimes. Sorry-don't drink. You might consider a drink or 2 though.

1. Don't believe anybody mentioned the cold war
2.This is not "SocialistUnderground" either

Why thank you for the welcome, very belated and unexpected but nice none-the-less.

[bitchkitty]

173. Oh, please.

No, you didn't specifically mention the cold war. But you're the cyber equivalent of the angry old man, shouting, "Get off my lawn, Commies!"

[EX500rider]

175. Well I might object to Commies on the lawn..

....I mean if i had a lawn.......were they invited? How many commies are on my lawn in this scenario? Are they on the flower beds or staying to the walkways? Maoist or more strictly Engels & Marxist types?

[EX500rider]

187. "But you're the cyber equivalent of the angry old man.."

OHH! The cyber equivalent game!!! cool, i wanna play....

OK, I'm going to go with "dour and humorless coffee house-wanna-be revolutionary with Castro and Che posters and a Little Red Book." for the win!

[fasttense]

176. Yeah, I posted a call out to them

and they all came running like good little robots.

It's so predictable.

I have 5 to 6 screen-names that are involved and I'm tracking them for fun.

[bitchkitty]

177. LOL n/t

[springchick]

178. I guess I should feel honored now,

I've move up to the status of "stalker".

[fasttense]

46. He is one of their leaders.

He represents the elite 1% of Venezuela who despises Venezuela so much he went to Harvard to get his education. That pretty well sums up these student protests. The upper middle class objecting to socialism and fearful that their wealth (or at least the inherited wealth they were expecting from their parents) is in jeopardy.

[EX500rider]

50. "who despises Venezuela so much he went to Harvard to get his education"

Really, the former multi-term Mayor of a Caracas district who lives there now "hates Venezuela" because he got a Ivy League education?

Anything to back that up?

[fasttense]

51. Oh my, the truth really hurts.

I posted a link in my first post. It provides real information NOT right wing propaganda.

The poor, poor uber rich capitalist really object to equality.

[EX500rider]

53. You posted a link that somehow proves he hates Venz?

No you didn't.

[springchick]

54. They're about as believable as Fox News or CNN.

But you accept what they say without question because it fits your agenda of blame the US for the troubles in Venezuela today.

So what if he's been to school in America? That makes him an agent of the US? That disqualifys him from being a leader? Or a potential candidate?

[fasttense]

56. You don't regard Democracy now a credible link?

Well then go back to your Fox noise.

[springchick]

58. I regard all news org. with a healthy dose of skepticism.

[fasttense]

59. Then how come your posts sound so much like Fox's talking points? n/t

[springchick]

61. They don't, except in your mind.

I could do the same thing, how come your posts sound so much like Pravda's talking points?

[EX500rider]

91. Don't sweat it...

....the mud slinging is the 1st sign someone has lost the argument and has nothing else to offer.

[springchick]

93. I don't.

I'm just having a little fun on a Saturday morning.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

181. DemocracyNow! is a very credible new source.

It's nice to be skeptical, but lumping them in with CNN or Fox (or MSNBC) is dishonest.

[EX500rider]

133. Actually the link is to a interview..

.....which then becomes that person's opinion, not necessarily the views of anyone else there.

[fasttense]

189. Your opinion is even less credible.

How many Democracy Now interviews have you done? Oh wait, I bet there are a few Fox interviews you want to share with us.

Your anti-Venezuela, anti-socialist and anti-democracy views have been noted. Switch to your other screen name.

[EX500rider]

190. "Your anti-Venezuela, anti-socialist and anti-democracy views have been noted"

Oh no, something you imagined in your head was "noted"!!

[EX500rider]

186. "Oh my, the truth really hurts."

When I hear some I'll let you know.

[joshcryer]

109. When did he lead a march in San Cristobal?

When did he put up a barricade? When did he give a speech to the students under siege?

He did none of those things. He is only a leader in name only. And mainly because the chavistas name him so in order to slander the students.

[EX500rider]

88. "You really buy that propaganda?"

Which propaganda, the 50%+ inflation or the worst murder rate in South America or the capital flight or the brain drain or the corruption or the mismanagement?

[EX500rider]

18. "Leopoldo Lopez and his US funded party lost the election big time"

Gosh you sound like you know so much about this......except Lopez didn't run for office, Henrique Capriles did and he only lost by 1%, how is that "lost big time". And to say the former Caracas mayor from 2000-2008 can "never" get elected sounds a little silly too.

I keep hearing what a RW fascist Lopez is because he went to school in the US.... yeah those Ivy league colleges, what a hotbed of RW fascists...lol....seems he also worked as a social activist working for "grass-roots judicial reform".

"He studied at the Colegio Santiago de León de Caracas and graduated from the Hun School of Princeton. He graduated from Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio in 1993, where he received a degree in Sociology. He subsequently attended Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government where he obtained a Master of Public Policy in 1996. In 2007, he received an honorary Doctor of Laws Degree from Kenyon."

Degree in Sociology and a Master's in Public policy.......sounds like a good background for public office. Certainly sounds better then "bus driver" or "paratrooper".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopoldo_L%C3%B3pez_Mendoza

[Judi Lynn]

33. Do you expect to get a lot of traction among Democrats

by mocking a man for driving a bus earlier in his life?

I don't really think you have a clue about the Democratic Party, or democratic people, do you?

[warrant46]

35. Has no clue

Mocking a working person's back ground.

The 1% and their acolytes are good at that--- the Sheep who buy lottery tickets and dream of being rich some day, are seduced by that propaganda

[EX500rider]

99. You're funny..

...I am a commercial driver who has driven buses for years so i doubt I am mocking anybody for doing my job or part of "the 1% or their acolytes."

However having been a bus driver i don't think it is an especially suitable training ground to lead a large country. Not that some bus drivers couldn't turn out to be good presidents, I just don't think personally this particular one in Venz. did. YMMV.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

183. Yeah because Yale and Harvard graduates have been doing a bangup job.

It probably couldn't hurt to have a real grass-roots leader run things for awhile instead of those groomed at the prestigious schools that the vast majority can't afford.

[EX500rider]

188. Which is great if they do a good job..

.....however some of us don't think that is the case in Venz. though.

[EX500rider]

45. Not really the best background for high office.

....nothing wrong with being a bus driver, I have done it myself....not really a great qualification for running a country though. Plus pointing that out is not "mocking" anybody.

[fasttense]

52. Gosh you sound like you know so much but

you can't even bother to listen to the link.

So sad.

[fasttense]

57. Go back to Fox Noise, they have all facts you want. n/t

[springchick]

62. Go back to Fox Noise?

Is this the best you can do?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

182. Your last line is pretty disgusting.

Why would you mock honest work?

"Kill, kill, kill the poor!"

[EX500rider]

184. No ones mocking anybody sorry.

But if asked to choose who I might think would be a better choice for president of a large country based on nothing more their education and work experience i would be inclined to pick the ivy league degree in sociology with a masters in public policy over paratrooper or bus driver. That's just me though. Obviously anybody might make a good president, just don't think they have a winner down there in Venz.
It's sort of interesting which side tries to make this personal. Usually the losing side I have found.

[fasttense]

68. Be Aware of these Anti Venezuela posts.

Some thing strange is going on here at DU about Venezuela. Every time I post anything that is in support of the current democratically elected government, I get a response from a well orchestrated group of posters who tell me how wrong I am.

And it is constant, non-stop, as if they made money from every post they made.

AND One of them slipped up and posted this:

"springchick

64. Who's repeating Fox talking points?

Is this the best you got? Accusing us of using fox talking points?
Sad and pathetic."

I find it weird that springchick calls herself us. It's not what I would ever say on a post even if I had 100 friends who agreed with what I said.

Beware, this is not a normal post.

[springchick]

72. Us, as in

EX500rider and myself.
That's the us.

[fasttense]

78. Riiiight

Something strange is going on here.

I don't think your group is made up of regular DU members.

[springchick]

79. Well, you just believe what you will.

That's the beauty of free will.

[EX500rider]

116. "Something strange is going on here."

Yes something is......how does somebody with under 100 posts have a "group"? Is that anybody she/he agree's with in a post as decided by you? That's strange alright.

[penultimate]

108. We do not approve of this.

None of us!

[EX500rider]

159. "Beware, this is not a normal post."

Is that the last sentence there or is that your new tag line?

[fasttense]

69. TEST

[springchick]

70. It's working.

[fasttense]

76. What group do you work for? n/t

[springchick]

77. I don't work for any group,

and I haven't a clue of what you're asking me.

[EX500rider]

94. We are a off shoot of the Trilateral Commission....

.....and the Illuminati with some help from the Bilderbergers and the John Birch Society and the Daughters of the American Revolution.. but please don't tell anybody!

[freshwest]

107. Gotcha! Now spill the beans on the Bohemian Grove! I dare you to tell TheTruth©!

No, wait!

The JBS and DAR are against the BB, Ills, Rs, etc..

You must be a double agent!

Greetings, 007 and 008!

EDIT: Apply liberally as needed:

[dlwickham]

104. not Harvard!

oh the humanity!!!!!!

[Bacchus4.0]

3. interesting, Petare is definitely a chavista stronghold n/t

[MADem]

8. And former Chavez supporters are in the streets calling for revolt.

This isn't about the USA, this is about an incompetent leader (bus) driving the country into the ground.

I will not be surprised if revolution comes from the LEFT, not the right.

Sixty percent inflation creates an unsustainable society.

[MyNameGoesHere]

11. Why the bus driver comment?

You don't believe bus drivers should be allowed to be president if elected? You are not a US citizen I suspect. Here in the USA we believe every person has a right to become President regardless of their social class. Bus drivers put up with some pretty awful shit and I don't know why you hate them.

[Judi Lynn]

34. That's so odd I can't imagine it. I have to thank you for pointing it out.

Someone's undemocratic underside is showing. Trying to revile a man for starting out his young adulthood as a person without wealth is about as ugly as someone can get.

Very dirty.

Thanks, again.

[MADem]

38. Dirty my left foot--how desperate of you. You have NO problem "name calling" people you find

incompetent. You routinely call people "fascists" with whom you disagree, when they are nothing of the sort. I have to wonder if you think the word is a synonym for "poopyhead," because you throw it about so relentlessly and with such inaccurate abandon.

I'm not calling the guy any names, I'm calling him what he is (and you, apparently, think there's something "wrong" with pointing out that he is a trained bus driver)--he is plainly, by his own fuckups, though, not a capable or competent national leader. He should go back to doing something he knows how to do.

Come down off the high horse before you get a nose bleed!

[MADem]

36. Why do I think you'd have no problem with "cowboy" snark when it came to Dubya?

I am riffing on the man's former occupation--he used to drive for a living, and he's still doing it...only he is driving his country off a cliff.

Surely you're not so obtuse that you have to take an obvious piece of snark and try to morph it into something more sinister and dire? Point the finger, shriek "J'accuse!!!!" and deem me unworthy because I made fun of an incompetent asshole and a corrupt CROOK who would have done his nation a far better service if he'd STAYED a bus driver--perhaps then he'd be getting people around the city....instead of cutting off transportation by stopping all public conveyances from transiting the city streets. The blood of his citizenry is on his hands-or his driving gloves.

So spare me the lecture--he EARNED that snark by doing what is, by any objective measure, a SHITTY job.

Here, this is just for you:

[MyNameGoesHere]

39. Oh now I see.

At first I thought you had contempt for public workers or low class workers. Now I see you are just a hateful person. Thank you, I stand corrected and understand you are not against bus drivers.

[MADem]

40. Plainly you do NOT see. Please, do explain why I'm a "hateful person?"

Is it because I want the people of VZ to be able to walk the streets without being murdered, to be able to wipe their asses with toilet paper purchased off the store shelf, to be able to go to the store to buy arepa flour and find it on the shelves? How DARE I feel for people who are paying HALF AGAIN what they were paying last year for basic goods--and that's when they can find them?

Yeah, if wanting that kind of stuff for the people of VZ, sure, I'm "hateful."

Competence isn't optional when it comes to national leadership, you know. Oh--wait!!!! You DON'T know...you think pointing that out is (waaah) "hateful."

Next time, come with an argument.

[MyNameGoesHere]

42. No I am sure you want them

to go back to being serfs beholden to neo-liberal oppression. Bus drivers should drive busses. Poor people should be, well poor.

[MADem]

44. Well, it's quite clear that you are indulging in blatantly false character assassination.

You may think you are "sure" but all you are is surely wrong.

You have no argument, so your only option is to invent falsehoods about my attitudes towards the people of VZ.

Incompetent leaders with bus driving credentials SHOULD drive buses. You know why? Because incompetent leadership keeps poor people poor--moreover, it makes middle and working class people poor.

Ask the students who backed Hugo Chavez, who are now wearing white in the streets, if they wish Maduro would go back to bus driving. I'll bet plenty would say that's too good for him.

You clearly have no clue how badly people have been affected by Maduro's failure to lead, and that is rather compellingly reflected in your obtuse remarks!

But don't believe ME....ask a few Venezuelans:

Venezuelans have a million reasons to protest. We have one of the highest murder rates in the world – two people per hour – rampant inflation at a rate of 60% a year, basic products like milk, oil, sugar, chicken are not available in supermarkets, if we want to travel we have to go through a bureaucratic nightmare to be able to buy foreign currency limited to less than £2000 a year, we have no liberty of expression if we do not concur with the governments ideas we are completely ignored. We are protesting for our lives and our dignity.

Official numbers put 2013 inflation rate at around 56% and murder casualties at more than 24000, two numbers that have only increased during 15 years. Scarcity of everyday goods is raising, corruption is rampant... but instead of listening to the protests who very accurately point at the government, what we have gotten is repressive use of the public force AND armed civil gangs which has resulted in at least 6 deaths, hundreds of injured and dozens of students in jail. All of this has been silenced from national media because of heavy censorship.We’re sick of hearing this sorry excuse for a president to blame “the Empire” and the “far-right” as culprits of his own mess.

There are many shortages and rationing... you cannot find margarine, sugar, P.A.N arena (maize), flour, toilet paper, washing up liquid, bleach, and milk and bread are rationed from shop owners. Cement, car parts, foreign goods too. It is almost impossible to buy an international air ticket as airlines have not been allowed to change the soft Bolivar for hard currency so they don’t sell tickets in Venezuela but you can buy the same flights in dollars at the arrival location.

Jobs are few and a reasonable salary is about £50/month... people are a lot worse off due to inflation and devaluation. Crime and the murder rate are one of the highest in the world.

Venezuelan people, all of them want and deserve better. Everyone is complaining, including government tied voters.

But hey, nothing to see here...move along, now!


http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/02/venezuela-end-petro-populism-2014219502850774.html

Don't look!

Pay no attention to those "poor people" asking for justice now--they apparently aren't the right sort of "poor people" to suit you!

[EX500rider]

95. Thanks for the Aljazeera link..

.....be fun to watch them go under the bus too.


http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/02/venezuela-end-petro-populism-2014219502850774.html

[freshwest]

111. Two people murdered an hour per day. The situation that underlies that. Cenk was fair, too.

Somebody had better change their ways down there. The shooting of unarmed people has to stop. Everyone needs to come clean about what kind of government they want to have there.

As the comments at the article says, it's not left or right. We may be out of our depth at DU considering this. Perhaps we need to discuss what is good about Maduro or Chavez without commenting on his economic system, an without conspiracy talk.

There has been a failure from what we at DU who were hopeful for the uplifting of the dispossessed (which is the colonial history of all of the Americas) in Venezuela.

Maduro's paranoia, though, is well-founded. That he may be corrupt or incompetent, even without the paranoia, is not totally proven here. Look at the obstruction that Obama has faced here in the USA.

And what kind of government would Lopez have installed in the place of Chavez in his last coup attempt?

Would he have empowered the poor, who many at DU believed Chavez did or Maduro would do, and for which he holds firmly to his ideology?

Or would Lopez have put into place the same system Chavez won election to overcome? Was Chavez a failure, as well?

And are we judging failures on facts or ideology?

We have seen successful mixed socialist societies for most of our lives (social democracies) that include elements in the USA. Social Security, SBA, etc. that empower people and business.

The actions of Lopez in trying a coup don't speak well for him, but don't agree his attendance in American schools makes him an instant pawn. If that was so, do we also deny simliar positions of leadership in the USA to those who attended these universities?

Venezuela has many resources, and we have talked on their oil not being export quality, but it seems the climate itself would give prosperity by agriculture. There is something wrong and has been for a long time for them to not have a more equal society.

As regards killings from crime, I can't help but wonder if these are cartel killings for turf or street crime from those who see no other way to get by in a society without any chance of making an honest living. I don't know what the crime rate was pre-Chavez or Maduro, or why. When shortages were reported, about televisions, I thought it rather frivolous.

Now that article posted shows that the people are very bad off if they cannot get the necessiites. I've posted about the changes in population in Caracas, on this thread, that make no sense. This is an emergency.

[MADem]

112. I think that the logical next leader is Diosdado Cabello.

He's not from the opposition. He was with Chavez in the Army. He has a longer history with Hugo than Maduro ever did.

Cabello lost to Capriles in the Miranda gubernatorial election. He's now the head of the national assembly, but if Maduro steps down, the VP could act until elections are held, and Cabello could probably cobble together a following. He's got way better pictures of himself and Hugo (both wearing uniforms). Maduro was never in the Army, so there's none of that soldierly solidarity thing with him.

[freshwest]

113. That should satisfy everyone, particularly if he's a honest man. I edited and asked questions, but

as far as the future goes, your comment takes care of that.

[MADem]

114. Cabello met with Lopez in the Palo Verde jail.

Perhaps he is talking to him about some sort of role in a future government--who knows? I'll wager Cabello knows full well that Lopez is not a "fascist" (funny how that word started popping up all over DU after Maduro bleated it like a peptic goat) but someone who loves his country and doesn't want to see it go straight down the crapper to hell.

VZ could be a great place--it has natural beauty, material assets, a population that isn't stupid--what it doesn't have right now is competent leadership.

[freshwest]

115. Perhaps peace is at hand. Despite the dissing, I'll blame Obama for that! n/t

[EX500rider]

135. Bad MADem! Only Venezuelanalysis.com has the truth!!

I see they all wanna avoid the Aljazeera link like a hot potato...probably very conflicted over the Sheikh Hamad bin Thamer bin Mohammed Al-Thani's Qatar mouthpiece doing a hit on Maduro. Got any RT links we can use to blow some more fuses?

[MADem]

144. ....

I guess I did hoist 'em on their own petard, there!

The unfortunate reality is, some truths are self-evident! VZ is in deep shit right now, and all the "revolutionary fervor" in the world can't correct that, when the foot soldiers of the revolution are griping that they don't have anything to wipe their asses or wash their dishes!

[Zorro]

48. The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round...

not.

The wheels are coming off the Venezuelan bus, and Maduro is the lousy driver.

[MyNameGoesHere]

65. Wow you know a second grade song.

What will you serenade is with next?

[Zorro]

84. Oh I know lots of songs

Did you know the song "Fuck You" was a 2010 hit?

[joshcryer]

24. That's what I keep saying, the students aren't right wing.

They're left wing. They want what Chavismo brought Venezuelans but they don't want the insecurity and crime. They want a balance of tranquility and equality. But as it stands now there is a huge class divide in the country.

It is folly to keep saying Lopez is the leader of the movement because, eventually, he will come to be the leader of the movement.

[MADem]

37. What do you know about Diosdado Cabello meeting with Lopez?

I heard he was there when he was arrested and brought in to Palo Verde and they spent quite a bit of time together. Even if Maduro doesn't quite grasp the concept, does this mean that DC "gets" that martyring an economist when one's economy is in the shitter is a dumb idea?

I agree with your last sentence. Further, I'd wager most people outside VZ had no idea what the Free Will Party was and didn't know who Lopez was before this massive rumble, and many still couldn't pick him out of a lineup.

This isn't just a small bump in the road, IMO. This is a big deal, a game changer.



I am kind of surprised at how little coverage it is getting. I guess one eye is on the stupid Olympics (what a sorry exercise--so ... forced) and the other on the Ukraine (where the shit is hitting the fan as I type). Maybe we'll start getting news after the "Closing Ceremonies" on Sunday.

[joshcryer]

41. The rumor right now is Cabello is behind all of it.

There's a Spanish language documentary that lays out this intricate conspiracy of how Cabello is trying to take over the country. I'm not even sure if I should link it but I saw it on the ND forums somewhere. It was kind of over the top.

I hate to speculate about these sorts of things really because I've been more wrong than right, I just thought it was extremely unusual for Cabello, the President of the Assembly, to head down there and talk it up with Lopez (and this event did happen it was documented).

[MADem]

43. Jesus! Now that would be something!

I gotta say, I was puzzled waaaay back when that "God Given Hair" didn't get the nod as Chavez's successor. They always seemed closer to me, given their shared military history, and Maduro always looked like the odd man out.

Now, so long as we're indulging in conspiracies (and this is full bore speculation) I have to wonder if DC and Chavez talked this over before Chavez slipped away and was put on life support...you know, along the lines of "Look, we'll let Maduro take over because the country is on a crash course to hell anyway....when the shit hits the fan, you step in--you've got the Army connections, after all, and you can orchestrate a coup-ish kind of non-coup, should it come to that...and persuade Nicky to take a powder if he wants to stay healthy. Then, you take over the show--you'll be able to blame everything that goes wrong for the next four years on Maduro!" I mean, the guy IS incompetent, everyone knew he was incompetent, all he had going for him was loyalty--not brains, and a lot of people thought he was a lousy choice to succeed Hugo. In a lot of ways, this crash-and-burn of the VZ economy is no surprise. The cronies have robbed the country blind, and the place is dysfunctional.

Of course, the only way that VZ comes back from the brink is with some economic stability and common sense--and who best to chart that course than an economist like Lopez? The pairing of DC and Lopez makes complete sense when viewed through that prism--and it would certainly calm all the people protesting in the streets wearing white.

I did see some footage of of Lopez surrendering and there was a report that DC did go there and they spent a lot of time together--that is indeed documented. I have to admit, I'm puzzled, but if they end up power sharing, how are the people calling Lopez a "fascist" going to explain that, I wonder? There'd be enough spinning to generate a lotta electricity, I'd bet...

[EX500rider]

101. Say you and josh sound pretty plugged in on all this..

....just how RW is Lopez? Some here seem to equate his Ivy League education with fascism but I would like a little more proof then that for some reason..what would his politics be considered in the States?

[MADem]

103. Josh is way better at the details than I am--I was aware of

Lopez but don't know much about people who are considered "opposition" as I do about the ones on the Chavez team. I know Lopez wasn't a fan of Chavez either; he participated in that business a decade back.

I do think it's ... ODD ... that DC met with the guy, though. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall.

[joshcryer]

110. I'd say he's like John Hickenlooper.

For Latin America that would be considered a far right extremist, mind you.

[springchick]

9. When you've lost those that are your most ardent supporters,

you know you're in deep doo doo.

[unreadierLizard]

15. This is huge.

It shows that Maudro is losing the working poor who were Chavez's main base.

Essentially, Maudro is going to be up shit creek without a paddle - his continuation of Chavez's measures that slowly erode society have finally hit the strata that Chavez was scared to touch. But of course, the usual apologists will say that this is all right wing manufactured, there is no problem in Venezuela, we have never been at war with Eastasia, and so on.

The people are waking up. ALL the people. Poor, rich, left, right. They want change.

[freshwest]

20. Very troubling words from the link:

...In the Altavista area of Puerto Ordaz, in Bolivar state, witnesses said national guard troops fired rubber bullets and teargas to break up a student protest camp, and stood by as about 60 plainclothes government supporters on motorbikes opened fire at protesters. "The tanks, the guard and the motorizados were all shooting at the students. There are several wounded," said Ines Duran, who had been providing food and water to the students. "They have the weapons, we only have sticks and rocks..."

In Caracas, the focus of the unrest has been the streets of the affluent Chacao municipality, where night after night people have gathered to protest against shortages of basic goods, price inflation of more than 50% in a year and street crime that has cost more than 100,000 lives since the late president Chávez took office 15 years ago, ushering in a period of "Bolivarian revolution" that his successor, Nicolás Maduro, continues...


Trying to gauge what such figures mean in proportion to Caracas:

The population of Caracas on February 22nd 2014 is approximately 1,482,623. (Extrapolated from a population of 2,762,259 in 2001 and a population of 1,815,679 on December 12th 2010.)

http://www.evi.com/q/what_is_the_population_of_caracas

I've lived in cities of those sizes, more or less. The rate of death from violence and not natural causes would be considered an extreme emergency. Those are odd figures. but the number of deaths is an average over 15 years of over half-a-dozen death a day, and there may have been less in former years. A thread here on DU said that 50 people day were being killed. By crime or Maduro's forces, IDK.

Which is in stark contrast to the next paragraph at link:

The government has won successive elections on this platform, most recently in municipal polls late last year.

So, who is voting for him? And why is the rate of crime so high? I don't want to appear naive, but there is something terribly wrong going on in Venezuela.

Only MADem has explained it without going OTT. Many posters look at this strictly from their ideological leanings but I want to see what the solution is.

The description of Maduro's solution sounds ominous:

...Maduro has called the street actions "a fascist plan" and has vowed to eradicate them "as one eradicates an infection"...

Can't believe that they are all fascists, even if they are against the 'revolution.' I may be wrong, but some appear to be protesting the violence from criminals and Maduro's squads, described in a very disturbing way here:

The opposition blames the government for denying people a right to protest, and accuses the ruling camp of escalating the violence through the use of armed militia-like groups, or colectivos, trained by Cubans to control and intimidate demonstrators.

Shooting unarmed people from motorcycles cannot be called a sign of a democratic government. I'm unfamiliar with both sides of the Cuban revolution. We only hear from those who came to the USA and hate Castro, and those who think Cuba's UHC and revolution was a great thing.

And that their problems were due to American embargo, but other nations are not participating in that, and find nothing wrong in Cuba.

This sounds very, very dirty.

[joshcryer]

23. He won by 1% last time after a heavily rushed election.

There were only two real weeks of campaigning since the first two weeks were Chavez' funeral and celebrations of his achievements.

If there was another week of campaigning Maduro probably would've lost.

[freshwest]

25. The link says successive electoral victories. And 1% is still a win. The thing that struck me, IIRC,

was that Maduro was not Chavez' VP.

That was someone else and I'd have thought that when Chavez passed that the VP would be in charge. Then I heard that was not the case.

It's likely I missed quite a bit of what really went on. IMO, they can elect whoever they want and that election should be respected.

Consequences for voting for a bad president will visit the ones who vote for them. And a lot who didn't, too. But that's how it works.

[joshcryer]

26. VP succession is weird in Venezuela.

Maduro was Chavez' VP but when his cancer reached a bad stage and he got reelected he appointed someone else. The VP is not elected, he is appointed. So when Chavez knew he was about to die he appointed someone else so that Maduro could run for President. The sitting VP cannot run for President in Venezuela. The VP stands aside as new elections are run, unless it's in the last two years of office (in which case the sitting VP does take over). Since Chavez had just won reelection if Maduro remained as the VP then he would not be able to run.

[freshwest]

27. That is weird. But certainly explains the anomaly. Looks like civil war in Caracas, maybe all over?

Half and half - that's how all these things are lining up in many places now. Still, if it's true that unarmed people are being gunned down, that's pretty much it for legitimacy.

Although this may be closer to the way things are done in SA, this wild west kind of stuff, so I can't say it's unexpected or it hasn't happened before. I have to admit to not having anything but a passing inerest in SA, just people I know from there, who give me their take.

In a democracy, this should not be happening. I keep on looking at our homegrown crop of wingnuts, and I'm sure they'd love something like this to happen here. They want the downfall of civil society.

In fact, the way they are preparing themselves, they have a lot invested in it. And itchy trigger fingers.

[joshcryer]

28. I think it is overblown.

There will be a big march today in Caracas, I think it will be peaceful.

I'm worried about Táchira, specifically San Cristobal, that's where things will go down, if they do. Maduro just needs to let things simmer and cool down and leave it alone. It's not like they have a single city street (like in Kiev), they have the entire city.

[freshwest]

31. Is that the aftermath of the demonstrations we've seen? Looks very depressing. Anyway, good luck, VN

[joshcryer]

32. That's San Cristobal, yeah, there have been zero deaths so far.

Fortunately.

Zero deaths in San Cristobal I should say, there have been deaths elsewhere.

[Zorra]

82. That is simply not true. The margin was 1.49%.

This time the margin of victory was much smaller (being 1.49%),

Maduro 7,587,579 50.61%
Capriles 7,363,980 49.12%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2013#Results

pro·pa·gan·da
noun \ˌprä-pə-ˈgan-də, ˌprō-\

: ideas or statements that are often false or exaggerated and that are spread in order to help a cause, a political leader, a government, etc.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda

[EX500rider]

96. "That is simply not true. The margin was 1.49%"

Are you arguing that that is a wide margin? 'Cause it looks razor thin to me. ymmv

[Zorra]

134. No. Use deductive reasoning to figure out what my point is.

My point is also distinctly relevant to your posts in this thread, and relevant to the nature of your repeated defenses of the RW opposition in Venezuela.

[EX500rider]

136. "your repeated defenses of the RW opposition in Venezuela"

Now we get down to it, so the entire opposition in Venz. is RW is it? Not one person on the left minds 50% inflation and the worse murder rate in South America or shortages of basic goods and electricity? Only CIA paid RW stooges... sounds unlikely...but feel free to skip over everything I just said with some personal comment or side rant, I'm sure that will help move the conversation forward...lol

[Zorra]

138. No, there are definite problems in Venezuela. As there are in the US.

If a poster here was backing a RW coup in the US, and was using propaganda to back their support of a RW coup, I'd be pointing it out, just like I am in this thread.

[springchick]

139. Can you please point out who here is backing a RW coup?

Criticizing the govt. is not backing a RW coup.

[EX500rider]

140. Except there seems to be no RW coup in progress in Venz..

....there does seem to be a very heavy handed government response to some student marches that started out peacefully.

[Zorra]

142. OK, I don't mind posting educational information here, but...

No offense meant, but if you don't know that Henry Capriles Rothman, and Leopoldo Lopez are extreme RW corporatists who are instigators and leaders of this protest, then I suggest, if you wish me to debate this subject with you further, you spend a minimum of two weeks gaining somewhat of an idea of the history and politics of Latin America.

I will no longer be responding to your posts. Best wishes to you, and thank you for providing me with an opportunity to post information about extreme RWers Capriles and Lopez, leaders of the RW opposition who are fueling the violent protests in Venezuela.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
― Benito Mussolini

"Heeding the call of opposition leader Henrique Capriles, governor of Miranda state and former presidential candidate, anti-government protesters massed near a shopping mall in the Caracas neighborhood of Sucre."

http://news.yahoo.com/venezuela-threatens-cut-off-fuel-protest-areas-205822959.html

Venezuelan Protests: Another Attempt by U.S.-Backed Right-Wing Groups to Oust Elected Government?

What is happening in Venezuela today?

GEORGE CICCARIELLO-MAHER: Well, there’s a great deal happening, and I think you’ve got your finger on the fact that this is a crucial test for the Maduro government. And I think it’s our obligation to put it in its broad historical context to understand who’s acting. And I think there’s a tendency—there’s an unfortunate tendency, if you follow Twitter or if you’re on the Internet, that, you know, in this sort of post-Occupy moment and in the aftermath of the Arab Spring, every time we see—every time we see protesters in the streets, we start retweeting it, and we start to sort of, you know, feel sympathetic, without necessarily knowing what the back story is. And I think we’re obligated to do that here. And once we look into this back story, what we see is yet another attempt in a long string of attempts of the Venezuelan opposition to oust a democratically elected government, this time taking advantage of student mobilizations against—you know, ostensibly against insecurity and against economic difficulties to do that.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, George Ciccariello, who is Leopoldo López? The Washington Post describes him as a 42-year-old, Harvard-educated, left-leaning moderate. What do you know about his history?

GEORGE CICCARIELLO-MAHER: Left-leaning moderate would be quite a stretch]. Leopoldo López represents the far right of the Venezuelan political spectrum. In terms of his personal and political history, here’s someone who was educated in the United States from prep school through graduate school at the Harvard Kennedy School. He’s descended from the first president of Venezuela, purportedly even from Simón Bolívar. In other words, he’s a representative of this traditional political class that was displaced when the Bolivarian revolution came to power.

Henry Capriles Radonsky:

Venezuela: A close look at opposition candidate Capriles Radonski

The right-wing leader Henrique Capriles Radonski, who, amidst the coup d’etat against President Hugo Chavez in April 2002, led the assault on the Cuban Embassy in Caracas along with Cuban-Venezuelan terrorists, and who was unmasked by Wikileaks as a collaborator of the USA Embassy in Caracas, will be the candidate for the presidency that will confront President Hugo Chavez in next October elections.

As was anticipated in view of the alliances between candidates, Capriles won the majority of the votes in the election carried out last Sunday by the so called Democratic Unity Table (Mesa de la Unidad Democratica) or MUD. According to observers, its campaign commanders were characterized by voting delinquencies such as illegal party propaganda.

Capriles is the leader of the party Primero Justicia and was born on 11 July 1972, in Caracas to one of the most privileged families in Venezuela....

Venezuelan opposition leader shifts tactics amid protests
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/usatoday/article/5757375

CARACAS - Venezuela's opposition leader Henrique Capriles returned to the fore this weekend, leading a rally of thousands and offering up a unified opposition as violent protests continue across the country.

López, in turn, is seen by many as a wealthy member of the country's elite. He was educated at Harvard and speaks flawless English - traits that are not admired among supporters of the socialist government.

With Capriles' involvement and leadership, the protests now have a chance to galvanize the entire opposition rather than just its wealthier or more radical elements.

In his speech, Capriles highlighted the opposition's reluctance to leave wealthy areas of the city. Most of its rallies and the accompanying violence have taken place in Plaza Altamira, long a focal point for opposition unrest.

Capriles was born in Caracas, on 11 July 1972. He is the son of Monica Cristina Radonski-Bochenek and Henrique Capriles García.[4][5] Henrique was a successful businessman, and in the 1950s, he helped launch Kraft Foods' entry into Venezuela by inviting the vice-president of its Nabisco subsidiary and persuading him to do business there.[6] Capriles’ father was from Curaçao, and Capriles’ great-grandfather, Elías Capriles, was born in Curaçao in 1850.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capriles

Exposing the Venezuelan Right-Wing’s Attempts to Discredit April’s Presidential Election

Diego Arria himself was a candidate in the opposition’s Presidential primaries held last year that chose Henrique Capriles as the right-wing coalition’s candidate. He is a high profile member of the Venezuelan right-wing opposition and a regular contributor in the international media about Venezuela. He is also a strong supporter of Henrique Capriles candidacy for the forthcoming Presidential election, saying in the Huffington Post article “Count on me for whatever you might think necessary in the coming days”.

Leopoldo Lopez

Showdown looms for Venezuela as protest leader Leopoldo López vows new march
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/showdown-looms-for-venezuela-as-protest-leader-leopoldo-lopez-vows-new-march/2014/02/17/69689270-97ea-11e3-ae45-458927ccedb6_story.html
After five days of bloody student-led street protests, Venezuela appeared headed for a dangerous new showdown as opposition leader Leopoldo López said he will emerge from hiding Tuesday to lead an anti-government march.
snip---
López has emerged as the most forceful and fearless critic of Maduro, at a time when annual inflation is topping 50 percent and the oil-rich country’s economy is tanking, with citizens facing chronic shortages of toilet paper, milk and other basic goods.

Leopoldo López Mendoza (born 29 April 1971 in Caracas) is a Venezuelan politician and economist. From 2000 until 2008, López was the mayor of the Chacao Municipality of Caracas. López played a role in the attempted 2002 coup d'état against then Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, though he later tried to distance himself from the event.[1] In 2006, López was the leader of the opposition to President Chávez, as well as a social activist working for "grass-roots judicial reform".[2] The government of Venezuela [3] disqualified him from public office for six years;[4] the Inter-American Court of Human Rights sanctioned Chávez for violating the human rights of opposition candidates by disqualifying them from running,[5][6][7][8] and in 2010 the court reached a unanimous decision in favour of Lopez.[9] The government of Venezuela refused to comply with the court. During the 2014 Venezuelan protests, the government accused him of instigating arson, damage and criminal gatherings; he turned himself into police after addressing a crowd of supporters.[10] in relation to the 2014 Venezuelan protests.

Personal and professional life and education

López was born in Caracas on 29 April 1971. He has two sisters, Diana and Adriana López. He studied at the Colegio Santiago de León de Caracas and graduated from the HunSchool of Princeton.[11] He graduated from Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio in 1993,[12] where he received a degree in Sociology. He subsequently attended Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government where he obtained a Master of Public Policy in 1996.[13] In 2007, he received an honorary Doctor of Laws Degree from Kenyon.[14] In May 2007 he married Lilian Tintori,[13][15] with whom he had a daughter in 2009 followed by a son in 2013.[16]

López' mother, Antonieta Mendoza, is the daughter of Eduardo Mendoza Goiticoa, who was Secretary of Agriculture for two years during the democratic period from 1945 to 1948. Through her, López is the great-great-great-grandson of the country's first president, Cristóbal Mendoza. López is the great-great-grand nephew of Simón Bolívar.[17] Bolivar's sister, Juana Bolivar, is Lopez's fourth grandmother making him one of Bolívar's few living relatives. His first cousin is Thor Halvorssen Mendoza.[18]
snip---
López worked as an economic consultant to the Planning Vice-President in Petróleos de Venezuela S.A. (PDVSA) between 1996 and 1999, and has served as a professor of Institutional Economy in the Economics Department at Universidad Católica Andrés Bello.[13]

What the Wikileaks Cables Say about Leopoldo López

In recent months, López has come out as more radical than Capriles, attracting opposition supporters who were perhaps disappointed Capriles had failed to take over from the social government.

While López strongly backed the protests, Capriles stood at the sidelines, hedging against their failure. Now he has stolen back the limelight.
---snip
Still, the violence has also played into government hands. Most evenings this week, Maduro, 51, has appeared on state television denouncing the protests by focusing on those injured or killed by the violence.

"A Nazi-fascist current has emerged again in Venezuela," said Maduro. "They want to lead our nation to violence and chaos."

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/usatoday/article/5757375

Lopez is the son of a former oil executive — Halvorssen’s aunt — who allegedly funnelled profits from the state-run oil company into his new political party, leading to corruption charges that placed his political ambitions in peril, as the Associated Press reported in February (“Leopoldo Lopez, Opponent Of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, Faces Corruption Charges In Venezuela”).

Described by the US embassy in Venezuela as “vindictive, and power-hungry” but also as “a necessity,” Lopez received large sums of financial support from the US government-funded National Endowment for Democracy.

http://maxblumenthal.com/2014/02/who-is-leopoldo-lopez/

Right Wing Groups Riot In Venezuela As State Department Dodges Questions of US Involvement

One of the leaders of the “peaceful assemblies” is Leopoldo Lopez Mendoza. Lopez is currently facing arrest for murder and terrorism and is the first cousin of frequent uncredited Buzzfeed source and Wikipedia editor Thor Halvorssen Mendoza.

Lopez attended the Kennedy School of Government and was close with members of the Bush Administration. In Venezuela Lopez was sanctioned for influence peddling and embezzlement of funds partly for using money from Venezuela’s state oil company PDVSA. Lopez was also sanctioned for illegal fund transfers when he was Mayor of Chacao. He and his associates have additionally been caught taking money from the US National Endowment for Democracy, an organization created as an alternative to funding from the CIA to pursue US interests abroad.

The statement from the US State Department that the US is not “helping organize protesters” is an interesting claim. While US government officials may or may not be involved in on the ground organizing the US government has been funding the organizers.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2014/02/18/right-wing-groups-riot-in-venezeula-as-us-state-department-dodges-questions/

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. "

-Franklin D. Roosevelt, "Message from the President of the United States Transmitting Recommendations Relative to the Strengthening and Enforcement of Anti-trust Laws"

Have a wonderful day!

[EX500rider]

143. Nice try but all the real news outlets just refer to him..

...as a opposition leader. The Democracy Now piece is a interview of one persons opinion on the matter, the only ones painting him has a "extreme RW fascist" are some blatantly pro-chavez mouth pieces like Venezuelanalysis and "The Venezuela We Are With You Coalition.". Toady blogs by fan-boi's really. Still no proof of a "RW coup in progress" as you claim.

[EX500rider]

162. "u spend a minimum of two weeks gaining somewhat of an idea of the history and politics of Latin Am"

Ok....oh, wait, does the 5 years I went to public school in Latin America count?

[EX500rider]

157. I don't think anybody knows what your point is..

....but it seems to be that someone said they only won by 1% and you came back with "NO!, it was 1.49%!" which seems a little bit silly of a point given that most would round to the nearest whole number when talking election results. Certainly rare to quote them out to 2 decimal places. But it's "propaganda" somehow to you-if that was the whole point of that blurb. Hard to say, you were so clear...

[Lodestar]

87. War for oil and a class war -- the elite turn discontent to their favor just as they've done in U.S.

Just as the elite have done in the U.S.
They have exploited the discontent of the lower classes, catering to all their hot button issues, promising them the moon and then mooning them with laws, policies etc. that ultimately disempower them. Hate radio and other media keeps that discontent high.
So they've got the lower and/or less educated classes working against themselves without realizing it



This is an article from last year but explains the historic and current situation unfolding in Venezuela:

(excerpts)

Having secured control over oil money (and imposed strict currency controls to stop capital flight), the Chavez government began re-directing wealth towards meeting peoples’ basic needs.

In real terms, per capita social spending jumped 314% between 1998 and 2006. This fuelled important gains in poverty reduction, wage rises and higher consumption levels among the poor.

Wealth re-distribution was combined with measures beginning to give Chavismo a clear anti-capitalist character.

Rather than relying on the inherited bureaucratic state apparatus, the government circumvented these corrupted institutions by creating “social missions”. These are programs funded by oil wealth that rely on networks of community groups to facilitate access to healthcare, education and subsidised food, among other things.

The social economy was increasingly viewed less as a complement and more as an alternative to the capitalist sector. Policy initiatives in this direction such as promoting worker-run factories and cooperatives relied on a reinvigorated working class.

//

In 2009, the government took a further step by promoting communes, made up of elected representatives of various communal councils to tackle larger-scale problems.

These bodies are also encouraged to create community-owned and -run enterprises, with profits raised going to social projects.

These groups were viewed as the building blocks of a new power built from below.

In sum, Chavismo represented an attempt by Venezuela’s popular class to win control of the state and use this position of power to bring strategic sectors of the economy under its control (in particular oil), and re-socialise the wealth towards meeting their needs.

Central to achieving this has been direct peoples’ participation in the political, social and economic sphere.

Current problems

The current problems have more to do with the successes rather than the failures of Chavismo. The government, nonetheless, still presides over a capitalist economy that is oil-dependent, even if it has been able to reassert a level of economic sovereignty and plant the seeds of a socialist transformation.

Shortages in basic goods, which have contributed to higher inflation, are due less to a “crumbling” economy (which grew 5.6% last year) than to a 10-year long explosion in consumption by the poor due to oil wealth redistribution.

Agricultural production levels have generally risen, but they have not been able to keep pace with demand. This led to a surge in imports.

Nonetheless, Venezuela has maintained a constant trade surplus, which last year totaled US$38 billion.

Venezuela’s economic elites have sought to take advantage of the problems to fuel discontent against the government. They seek to force it to wind back its controls over the flow of oil money or bring it down.

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/54466

[EX500rider]

97. "The current problems have more to do with the successes rather than the failures of Chavismo."

56% inflation
shortages of basic necessities and electricity
highest murder rate in South America (10x the US rate)
stifling of news outlets
declining oil production due to mismanagement
currency and capital and brain drain

If those are the successes I'd sure hate to see the failures.

[Lodestar]

100. Oh please. Are you living in the U.S.? Hold up a friggin mirror. n/t

[EX500rider]

102. Which means what?

I've lived in many places and countries including Latin America, so what?

All I asked was how could you call those problems listed as "successes"?

But feel free to get personal if you got nothing left. Don't bother me none.

[sadoldgirl]

89. I don't know much about VN, but

I hope very much, that the US stays out of it. We cannot interfere in every country's upsets or revolutions. Oil or not, let other countries decide their own fates.

[springchick]

92. Well said.

[brooklynite]

105. Question for the Chavez/Maduro supporters here...

Is there ANY aspect of the Maduro Government's performance that warrants protest, or is everyone in the streets a dupe or CIA plant?

[joshcryer]

121. Some have reluctantly admitted economic policies need changing.

But I don't think many on this forum. I can only name one on this forum, the rest are off site.

[Judi Lynn]

150. There's no aspect of the government which justifies "guarimba,"

or violent protests, heavily promoted by Cuban exile in Venezuela, Roberto Alonso, with many direct ties to right-wing "exiles" in Miami, from the very first of Hugo Chavez' presidency.

All those years of violent tantrums in the streets, and violence against the citizens, even burning down their houses with people inside them, as in the last election, wear a little thin.

Warrents "protest" like this for so many years? Of course it ####ing doesn't.

[EX500rider]

156. "There's no aspect of the government which justifies"

Which part justifies government goon squads on motor bikes opening fire on marching college students?

[Judi Lynn]

169. Bring your proof, there's your credibility. Only the opposition has anything to gain

from this crap. It's a planned, staged revolt of the 1%, and anyone they can pay to act up for them.

[EX500rider]

170. "Bring your proof, there's your credibility."

You say:
"Only the opposition has anything to gain"

To which I say......"Bring your proof....there's your credibility!" right back at ya...and no toady blogs please.

But I can tell you're probably one of those "i hear hoofs=zebras" kinda person.

[name not needed]

174. There's video.

[bitchkitty]

179. Perspective:

To answer this question one must attempt to understand both the general situation of the country at the beginning of this new year and that of the opposition in particular. Following its electoral defeat last December, the Venezuelan right-wing is more divided and weaker in numbers than it has been for some time. On the other hand, within the Bolivarian movement there is considerable discontent due to the dire economic situation (a combined result of the global crisis and a local economic sabotage orchestrated by the bourgeoisie). This means that the opposition is surely thinking about the middle and long run: How to maintain itself as a reference during the upcoming two-year plateau? Who will be its key leaders? Is it possible to attract disgruntled Chavistas into its flagging ranks?

From this emerges the strategy of Leopoldo López and María Corina Machado, whom Maduro is correct in pointing to as masterminding the violence. These two are seasoned politicians, closely advised by the White House, and cannot be so foolish as to suppose that the televised image of white university students attacking the police and burning public property will become a reference for any significant part of the Chavist majority – a majority that, however unhappy it may be about waiting in lines to buy milk, is endowed with considerable political consciousness. Yet these right-wing ringleaders are not mistaken in thinking that, through violent street actions, they could salvage the opposition as some kind of political reference, nationally and internationally, and perhaps enhance their own leadership within its files.

What's Really Happening in Venezuela?

Emphasis mine.

[hack89]

180. So the government institutes moronic currency exchange laws

that make it nearly impossible for companies to obtain the dollars they need to import foreign products and results in out of control inflation and massive shortages and yet it is a local economic sabotage? Right.