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alp227

(32,024 posts)
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:26 PM Mar 2014

Case against mom who refused to give daughter antipsychotic drugs is dismissed again

Source: Detroit Free Press

A judge dismissed the case against a Detroit mother whose refusal to give her teenage daughter antipsychotic medication triggered an eight-hour standoff with police in March 2011.

Maryanne Godboldo, 59, was accused of opening fire on police, who were not injured, when they came to her home with a Child Protective Services employee to remove her daughter and was charged with discharge of a weapon, three counts of felonious assault, resisting and obstructing an officer and using a firearm in a felony.

Godboldo’s daughter was taken away but ordered returned in December 2011, and charges were dismissed. The Michigan Court of Appeals reinstated the charges in May after prosecutors appealed.

Today, the case was dismissed by 36th District Judge Ronald Giles, officials said.

Read more: http://www.freep.com/article/20140314/NEWS01/303140120/Godboldo-Detroit-charges-dismissed

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Chemisse

(30,811 posts)
6. A series of immunizations in 2009?
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 07:18 AM
Mar 2014

Why would an 11-year-old have a series of immunizations?

Maybe she didn't get her shots as an infant and had to catch up? Or maybe she was exposed to rabies.

Odd that the mother would connect budding psychosis with the immunizations. I would be more likely to attribute it to the age of the girl, and onset of puberty.

Response to Union Scribe (Reply #4)

Chemisse

(30,811 posts)
5. Amazing verdict
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 07:12 AM
Mar 2014

I'm surprised she isn't facing life in prison! (she shot at officials - and she's black)

I sympathize with her though.

Other people really need to stay out of parental medical decisions unless the life of the child is in clear danger, and even then there should be a neutral panel to review the request.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
7. What Chemisse said
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 07:19 AM
Mar 2014

It's the reasonable consequence we face for a country that still has some liberties.

penultimate

(1,110 posts)
8. It's all very vague what the diagnoses and drugs being prescribed are
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 09:09 AM
Mar 2014

Makes it hard to determine if the child truly is in danger, or if this is one of those instances of CPS creepily overstepping.

DebJ

(7,699 posts)
11. Having raised a bipolar child, I agree, however
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 11:33 AM
Mar 2014

in this case, the life of the child might well be in clear danger. We don't know. And with psychiatric disorders,
she might be fine one minute, but in jeopardy repeatedly at other times, in a very unpredictable fashion.

The concept of a neutral panel ... I like that... but I've never heard of such a thing existing. I wonder
if it does? And who would be on such a panel? Great idea I think...

DebJ

(7,699 posts)
10. Interesting. Risperdal is used for rather severe psychiatric ailments
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 11:27 AM
Mar 2014

bipolar, schizophrenia..... It is used in bipolar for acute mania. Acute mania is rather terrifying and quite often very dramatic (although there are the quieter cases as well where suddenly there is a mass shooting after years of withdrawal). The peak season for mania is just beginning; as the daylight hours lengthen, it can become extremely severe quite quickly. So this story could easily have some dramatic and published events in the next two months, I am so sorry to say.

Risperdal is also used for mixed episodes. I saw some of those last year, for the first time, in really severe form, and let me tell you, that can be terrifying. A mixed episode is basically an up and down manic-depressed swing at high speed. In my son's case last year, between every 5 minutes and every 30 minutes. Extreme anger. Extreme depression. Extreme hysterical laughter.

Risperdal is also "indicated for the treatment of irritability associated with autistic disorder, including symptoms of aggression towards others, deliberate self-injuriousness, temper tantrums, and quickly changing moods."
http://www.rxlist.com/risperdal-drug/indications-dosage.htm

My son has bipolar (more than two decades now), and many associated disorders as well. But attempting to use anti-psychotics didn't happen until waaaayyyy down the line in his course of treatment, and only during a time when things were very, very difficult and a bit frightening, and he doesn't remain on them now. He has had 3 different regular psychiatrists over the last 23 years, and NONE of them quickly dispensed an anti-psychotic. That's my experience. Yes, of course, I'm not a doctor. Just sharing my long experiences. If CPS was pushing for the typical ADHD meds, I wouldn't be as concerned for this child. But Risperdal has other implications, as stated above.

CPS could perhaps alternatively filed something saying that the child was a danger to herself and others, if her symptoms are that severe. But then again, that would only result in a short-term hospitalization, maybe a week, and then back to the drawing board. And 'danger to self or others' might be harder to show in the case of an 11 year old. Not that the danger is any less real...particularly with acute mania, where the brain is in hyper-drive and the creativity resulting from that can be quite astounding, and terrifying, too.

Of course, we don't know the girl's specific diagnosis. And the state of our comprehension of how the brain works means the psych's don't really know what is going on, either. (Thank you Barack for the initiative to map the brain.) But that doesn't mean intervention isn't necessary to save a life or lives. If alternative therapies were working, then why is CPS still involved?

I seriously doubt it is just a case of temper tantrums if CPS went to this extreme. More often, they do not do, or are unable to do, things that are needed, rather than the reverse, these days. CPS is so overburdened with case loads, and social work doesn't even pay enough to keep a roof over your head and a car on the road, so the turnover is quite high, that I find it hard to believe they have much opportunity to 'go overboard' with a case.

Attempting to treat a brain disorder like acute mania, if that is the case, with alternative therapies.... well, let me say she should move out in the hills somewhere so that public safety isn't jeopardized. That sounds rough, I am sure, but I've lived with this nightmare of a disorder for thirty years now, with a son who has a wonderfully warm, loving and respectful
heart. But when the brain goes out of whack, it is terrifying, and crushingly sad. There were times when I, too, stood up for my son against the use of specific medications (and I am glad that I did), and I delayed his start of medication at all as long as possible, because of the side effect possibilities on developing organs, etc. It is a very scary and sad guessing game as to when to begin medications... until things become so bad, that the choices are obvious...no good trying to avert potential future medical implications, when the child's current behavior extremes indicates they might not live long enough to face those possible implications. But complete denial of treatment, or insistence on continuing as the sole source of treatment something that clearly has not worked? No. I think the Mom wants to believe that it's just allergies or some such stuff, and won't face the fact that most likely her child's brain is actually structured differently (as has been shown now with brain scans of those with bipolar). A different diet or a few herbs aren't going to restructure her brain. But I understand the heartbreak of the Mom.

My heart really goes out to the child. Having a neurobiological brain disorder is a nightmare that most of the public has no idea about. Frankly, I'd honestly rather be paraplegic than suffer from this; you CAN choose to decide to be relatively happy and make a life for yourself without limbs. Without a functioning emotional system, you can't really decide anything, and you live in an eternal hell. I pray she gets some relief, but the chances of some all natural regimen altering her brain's chemistry is like nil.


DebJ

(7,699 posts)
12. Also along the lines of interacting with the public while in a state
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 11:56 AM
Mar 2014

of mania or psychosis: perhaps CPS is involved because the child is interacting with other citizens/children/students on a regular basis in a manner that requires some urgent action, and perhaps the choices of actions are limited.

One of the drawbacks to the push to place every child in the least-restricted-environment is that the classrooms become so disrupted that all of the other children's education can be constantly interrupted. And I do mean, like DAILY. HOURLY. One of the reasons that I agreed to have my son placed in a more insular educational environment 25 years ago was because I realized the impact his behaviors in the classroom were having on the education of all the other children. But as his mother, I was also deeply upset because I realized he then would not ever see regular behaviors by the rest of children to compare his own behavioral choices and to use as a model for himself...but with 20/20, the reality was that his behaviors were not really 'choices' most of the time, anyway. His brain wouldn't allow him that 'luxury', to actually make a logical choice.

Our local school system now pushes every child into regular classrooms, no matter what, and the results are pretty devastating. There really isn't an option for a more insular education, unless they push the child into a really extreme environment with a special placement at schools that are more like prisons... and those schools won't keep the students more than a week with misbehaviors continuing, so they don't help either. And the students with these issues that are placed in the regular classrooms are also not getting what they need more than anything: things like group meetings with their peers, and other assistance that is more psychological than the standard math/writing etc focus. When your brain won't function, you CAN'T be focusing on how to take a standardized test, and you DO have other overwhelming needs. These needs are now largely ignored. Imagine a classroom of 35, where 10 of the students have some very serious issues. In the classroom you have one special education teacher, plus the regular teacher. This just doesn't come close to meeting the needs of the children with the disorders, nor allowing the education of the other students to proceed. And then, of course, it is the teacher's fault because all of the students do less well on state tests. The school system 'benefits' in that thousands and thousands of dollars are saved as opposed to the former arrangements where students with severe emotional issues were placed in small classrooms of say 10-15 students with ready access to a counsellor, routine visits with psychiatrists, and an experienced, knowledgeable, compassionate creative and firm teacher who could maintain control and progress in line with what each student was able to handle at any particular moment in his eduation. . And our Governor likes this, because this is more of an excuse to close the public schools and push for all charter schools (based on results from charter schools that do not handle more than maybe 5 students with psychological needs in a building, and they ultimately toss these students out of their school anyway).

And believe it or not, the 'accomodations' made for some of these students are just unbelievable. Like the student is permitted to curse and speak of explicit sex in great detail in the middle of the class as he feels the urge to, and nothing is allowed to be done about it. Here's an example: the teacher was asked if he spit or swallowed, by a sixth grade student in front of all the other students. That's one of his milder sexual references. Nothing is done. Goes on every day in the classroom. Student asks other students to do explicitly sexual things with him all the time. NOTHING is done.

Argh. So frustrating. Sometimes all I can do is to conclude that the world has gone insane.

mdbl

(4,973 posts)
14. True brain disorders need treatment
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 07:57 PM
Mar 2014

If the child has anything close to yours, withholding treatment is just plain abuse. If people want to first try homeopathic remedies, they can but it doesn't take long to realize they aren't working. The longer the brain is in a broken state, the longer it will take to heal from all the psychological trauma it is experiencing, assuming the brain can be healed enough to make those realizations. Until that time, many are living in total terror or an alternate reality we will never be able to assimilate into the real world. I am sorry your child has to deal with it Deb, it takes a very strong person to handle what your son is dealing with, even though it is harder on him. I hope you found the correct anti-psych drug to help him feel more at peace at times. I wish you all the best.

DebJ

(7,699 posts)
15. You are right about 'the longer the brain is in a broken state'...
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 08:36 PM
Mar 2014

if this child suffers from mania, extreme manic episodes actually can permanently impact the brain so that future episodes
of mania are both more likely/frequent, and more severe, according to some recent research.

My son has been blessed many years with a relative stability, but it is always relative. He does work to find happiness
and he does from time to time, but the reality is that he will always suffer a pain I can't fix. But we are better off than
many others. There never seems to be one definite medicine regimen that will hold the line for him indefinitely...but
that's another long story.

Thanks for your kind words.

I always feel obligated to speak up about psychiatric disorders...the people that suffer them truly are going to be the very last to truly be incorporated into our society as equals......... if ever. There is an aura of shame that is placed upon them by most of the public...you know...just 'shake yourself out of it' etc.

mdbl

(4,973 posts)
16. They won't get it until they experience it with a family member
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 08:42 PM
Mar 2014

And it takes so many in the prime of their life. Again I wish you and he the best and admire the courage you both possess against such a difficult illness.

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