NASA suspends relations with Russia space agency

[Bosonic]

Source: UPI

WASHINGTON, April 2 (UPI) -- The U.S. Government has suspended all contact between its space agency and the Russians' over the ongoing geopolitical crisis in Ukraine.

According to a NASA memo sent Wednesday by Associate Administrator Michael O'Brien, all contact between NASA and Roscosmos was indefinitely suspended, with the exception of activities related to operating the International Space Station.

As of last week, when two Russian cosmonauts and an American astronaut joined the current expedition, there are three Russians, two Americans and one Japanese astronaut aboard the space station.

Just last week, NASA Administrator Charles Bolden said he had no fear that the Russian government would cut off American access to the space station, despite the Earth-bound crisis. While the U.S. has relied on Russia's launch vehicles to transport astronauts to space since NASA grounded the Space Shuttle program, Bolden said the Russians were just as dependent on the U.S. to run the station as the U.S. was on Russia's transportation abilities.


Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/04/02/NASA-suspends-relations-with-Russia-space-agency/6351396463809/

[dipsydoodle]

1. Bit lame excluding the space station

[JackRiddler]

3. They should duel it out up there.

Will make a great movie. But will this be directed by Kubrick or Tarkovsky?

[lastlib]

6. Remember "2010: Odyssey II"?

[Baclava]

8. Meanwhile, things are not going well on Earth

[LTG]

10. Could, but I imagine it would be hard to hit anything in space.

There are always one or two handguns in space. This is in accordance with a clause in the treaty covering the space station. The Russians insisted on its inclusion.

The pistol is in the unlocked survival kit that is on the Russian capsule(s) attached to the station. Everyone has access to them, and have been trained on them. They have been included, or another survival gun (that I believe is now out of production) on every Russian space flight since the beginning. I don't think we have ever included a firearm on any space mission, just a machete.

In space it is the Russians insisting on the right of their cosmonauts to "keep and bear arms".

So, a duel would be possible, as would an armed takeover, or a crazed resident. So far, there has never been a problem having a gun in an unlocked "drawer" (actually a canister). Hopefully there never will.

[neffernin]

13. I imagine in reality decompression is a lot worse than in movies

And none of them would be in any hurry to find out shooting guns in a space station. Then again, we do have slightly worse things to worry about.

[LTG]

21. Decompression would be problem, but probably not fatal.

The pistol would be a Russian military sidearm, the Makarov. It fires a 94 gm, 9 mm bullet with a diameter of approximately .365 inches, traveling right around 1,000 feet per second (this is from memory). Its energy and hole are just very slightly more than our own .380 automatic. Some of the velocity and energy would likely be reduced if the shooter is free floating as the shooter would be propelled back as the bullet flew forward. If anchored and braced this wouldn't be a factor.

This would not be a very big hole, thus the loss of air not be immediate. Depending on rate of loss, they do have small patches available. Procedures are designed around an assumption of 5 minutes. If it can not be reached or patched quickly two primary options remain. If damage to module is too bad to patch and access to module is necessary to station operations then the Russian capsule "life boat" that is always attached would be used to return to Earth. If the crew present is greater than the capsules capacity, and the crew delivery capsule is not present, then other measures may be taken in addition to the abandonment of the capsule by the partial crew.

Whether to be used by the remaining crew, or the whole crew, the module can be quickly sealed off by closing the hatch to the other modules. The crew would shelter there until another launch can be made to either repair the hole, or remove the remaining crew.

The walls of the modules are crammed with equipment which might stop the bullet, or conversely make the impossible to get to and repair.

This is really no different than the procedures and protocols for dealing with the holing of a module by a small meteorite. A very real possibility in space.

Not that I would want to test all of these procedures and assumptions on the station myself. LOL

[neffernin]

33. Wow

Alrighty, your explanation definitely trumps mine lol

In my head I just picture the Black Widow fighting Captain America. Though I suppose that wouldn't be a very fair fight

[happyslug]

23. Appears till 2006 the Russian had a "Drilling" as their weapon, but now send a Pistol

In the 1960s, a Soviet Space Craft landed over 200 miles from where it was suppose to land. It took a while for the Soviets to get to the craft, and in the mean time a pack of wolves had found the craft and tried to get in for a quick meal.

From that day forward, the Soviets appears to have send up a "gun" with every aircraft, in case such a thing happened again. The reports was in the 1960s and 1970s it was an actual AK, after about 1970 the AK-74 in 5.45x39mm. In the 1980s the Soviets adopted a "Drilling" as their space weapon. A "Drilling" is the name for a three barrel weapon, with two shotgun barrels over one rifle barrel. In the case of the Drilling used by the Soviet, it was a pistol with two 12.5x70 mm smooth bore barrels and one 5.45x39 rifle barrel. It came with a stock, that was also a machete.

The TP-82 was used from the 1980s till 2006, when it was withdrawn do to the poor quality of the remaining 12.5x70mm (40 gauge, .50 Caliber) ammunition.

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/rus/tp-2-e.html



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82

Now, one report I read said Remington was going to put the 12.5x70mm ammunition into production, but I have yet to see any actual for sale or in production.

Comment on Gauge. In the days of black powder, barrels of shotgun were named after how many lead pellets of the bore of the shotgun would equal one pound. Thus a 12 gauge shotgun if it fired a solid lead ball, 12 of those balls would equal one pound. In the 1800s more precise measurements were adopted but the name of gauge persisted.

Now, Russia could have produced more 12.5x70mm ammunition for the TP-82 and thus resume using them after 2006. Producing a small batch of ammunition is NOT that difficult but takes time. Thus the Russians may have been happy with their TP-82, but when they tested the ammo they had (probably all produced in the 1980s), they discovered it was unusable and either made a permanent decision to withdraw the TP-82, or just withdrew it temporary till more modern ammunition could be made for it. Thus it is possible the TP-82 is now going up with the Russian space craft, but with recently produced ammunition.

Just a comment that while it was reported that starting in 2006 the TP-82 was withdrawn, I have NOT run across anything that said that the withdraw was anything permanent, i.e. no complaints about the weapon, the issue was the poor condition of the remaining ammunition. Given the history of Russian space craft landing hundreds of miles off course, I do not see the Russian writing off the need for such a survival gun in their space craft. It was part of a while thought out survival kit that can be reinstated by just producing a small batch of ammunition for the TP-82. Such a small batch would take some time to produce, but once produced can last 20 years.

Thus the TP-82 was "withdrawn" in 2006, it may be back in the survival kit today. It is a good survival weapon with minimal weight (Weight is always the #1 concern when shipping anything into space). The replacement, the Makarov 9x18mm Pistol is NOT a survival weapon, nor able to fire flares like the TP-82 and marginal against hostile animals (including people).

[LTG]

26. Always thought this an interesting weapon.

The birdshot shells would have made a decent choice to use in the space station. Not as likely to penetrate the hull.

A plus one barrel variation of our own shotgun/rifle combos. Also similar in the stacking of the barrels to the triple barrel shotguns that have started to show up on the market.

I agree that the Mak would not be my choice of a "survival" weapon. The Russians don't make many large caliber handguns. There is at least one exception, perhaps they should switch to the RSH-12 5 shot revolver in 12.7X55. Might even keep not just the wolves away but the bears as well.

[JackRiddler]

2. So stupid.

This is exactly where cooperation should not be suspended. Very short-sighted.

[LongTomH]

4. Agreed! This, plus the cutbacks in NASA funding may be precursors of a new Dark Age.

[freshwest]

16. Future space programs have been handed over to corporations under the guise of cutting deficits.

It isn't the nation's space agency, despite jobs at NASA and many more elsewhere. I doubt any benefits will accrue to the general public. We're out of the loop and have been for some time, except for some funding.

The publicity on exploration is to lobby the public to open their wallets for an enterprise that is increasingly commercial. The profits of whatever they get will be in the hands of an elite that most people don't even know exists, but is shaping all our futures:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_spaceflight_companies

I accept it's going to be this way, but won't cheerlead it anymore. I grew up near NASA and knew people and had relatives involved in the space program for years. But can no longer recognize its purpose as being for all mankind.

Those who love it, carry on with my amity. I still love science and discovery, but few will benefit from these venture capitalists.

So as far as this event precursing a new Dark Age, some will be left in the dark and others will rejoice from the light of technology and knowledge. Too bad it won't be all of humanity, and looking at the players at the link with its links, these corporations don't have a humanitarian streak.

JMHO. And as I said. those who get excited at the wonder of space are more like I used to be. While I still feel uplifted from some of what they do, I've no illusions.

[LongTomH]

18. The only "progress" we are allowed

[bananas]

28. It could very well be.

As Elon Musk and many others have pointed out, we might have only a small window of time to start a Mars colony.

[LongTomH]

29. Dr. David Webb, formerly of the National Commission on Space, told me essentially the same thing.

This was at an International Space Development Conference in the 90s. Dr. Webb maintained that, we have a window of about 50 to 100 years at the outside to open up the resources of the solar system (Not just Mars!!!!!) before the limits of this planet close in on us.

[Boreal]

5. This is getting ridiculous

Given Russia's ongoing violation of Ukraine¹s sovereignty and territorial integrity, until further notice, the U.S. Government has determined that all NASA contacts with Russian Government representatives are suspended, unless the activity has been specifically excepted. This suspension includes NASA travel to Russia and visits by Russian Government representatives to NASA facilities, bilateral meetings, email, and teleconferences or videoconferences. At the present time, only operational International Space Station activities have been excepted. In addition, multilateral meetings held outside of Russia that may include Russian participation are not precluded under the present guidance.


http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/2/5574896/nasa-suspends-contracts-with-russia

[Kelvin Mace]

7. You don't refuse to dance with the guy who brung you

That is just stupid. How will the Americans get back from the station? Parachute?

But then again, our failure to have any program to get into space after we grounded the shuttle was also stupid.

When I was a kid we were going to have a colony on the moon by now. But that was before we decided to hand the country over to corporate oligarchs (free of charge, I might add).

[jakeXT]

9. And who decided that ?

In the United States, space policy is made by the President of the United States and the United States Congress through the legislative process. In the Executive Office of the President of the United States, the bodies responsible for making space policy include the National Security Council, due to the military and political implications of space policy; the Office of Science and Technology Policy; and the Office of Management and Budget, due to its role in preparing the federal budget. In addition, a separate National Space Council existed at various point in the past.[1]

In the United States Congress, civilian space policy is mainly made by the House Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics and the Senate Subcommittee on Science and Space, while military and intelligence related activities fall under the purview of the House Subcommittee on Strategic Forces and the Senate Subcommittee on Strategic Forces as well as the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. In addition, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee conducts hearings on proposed space treaties, and the various appropriations committees have power over the budgets for space-related agencies. Space policy efforts are supported by Congressional agencies such as the Congressional Research Service and, until it was disbanded in 1995, the Office of Technology Assessment, as well as the budget-related Congressional Budget Office and Government Accountability Office.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_policy_of_the_United_States

[Android3.14]

14. Shush!

The ubiquitous "they" will be unhappy. They might even do a rhetorical goosestep across your post.

[progressoid]

11. Maybe we should make a deal with the Chinese.

I'm sure that would be much better.

[jakeXT]

15. China wanted to participate and Russia tried to lobby for them

China wants in, but the U.S. may not allow it

Chinese space officials today announced the country is still willing to work alongside the United States on extraterrestrial endeavors, especially the International Space Station.

"We sincerely hope to conduct cooperation with the United States in the field of space," said Li Xueyong, Vice Minister of Space and Technology. "At some point we hope to take part in the activities relating to international space stations."
- See more at: http://www.dailytech.com/China+Wants+to+Join+International+Space+Station+Project/article9290.htm

China Has Not Been Invited to Join International Space Station, NASA Says

..

The comment came after Russia's Federal Space Agency posted a news report to its website that suggested Russian space officials had reached out to China's space program for involvement in the International Space Station.

The report cited comments made by Russian space agency chief Anatoly Perminov to the Interfax news service last week at the International Economic Forum in St. Petersburg. In the Interfax report, Perminov reportedly said Russia had contacted Chinese space officials to see if there was any interest in using the latter country's Shenzhou vehicles as a backup for the Russian Soyuz space taxis that ferry crews to and from the space station.

..

http://www.space.com/8675-china-invited-join-international-space-station-nasa.html

[dembotoz]

12. must be fun for our guys up in the space tin can

sucks to be them

[Nye Bevan]

22. Planet Earth is blue and there's nothing they can do (nt)

[Benton D Struckcheon]

17. Perhaps everyone on this thread needs to look at this from a different POV.

Russia was, until Crimea, considered and was being treated as a normal country.
There is only one country, and one person in that one country, responsible for why that is no longer so.

[fascisthunter]

19. This is a Shame

[CFLDem]

20. This is an awesome opportunity

to fully revive the space industry in America.

Let's not blow it.

[Rhiannon12866]

24. Bad idea, IMO, since all those on the Space Station have to work together...

[joshcryer]

25. ITAR already highly, ridiculously, limits US-Russian relations.

Not to say that this is bad, but it's not like Russia is losing anything other than good will from this.

As far as American and Russian cosmonaut interactions, they tend to be off base, they each do their own thing but whenever they eat they might hang out, it's really two stations in one and has been that way for a long time.

Russia won't cut off NASA for manned launches because NASA / SpaceX / Orbital are the only ones providing supplies to the station to keep it going.

[jakeXT]

27. "we don’t need the space relationships...because we don’t have as much going on in space.”

Since the retirement of the space shuttles, NASA astronauts get their rides into orbit aboard Russian Soyuz rockets at a cost of up to $70 million a seat. NASA is financing commercial companies to develop rockets and spacecraft to start carrying astronauts as soon as 2017. At a congressional hearing last week, Mr. Bolden said the program, called commercial crew, was the “critical need” for the human spaceflight program.

The new restrictions are similar to ones that limit what NASA is allowed to do with China because of worries, particularly by Representative Frank R. Wolf, Republican of Virginia, that China would take advantage of collaborations to copy American technologies. Under those rules, NASA cannot host any Chinese citizens.

The decision to suspend the relationship with the Russian space agency is unusual for several reasons, not least because keeping the space enterprises alive has long been a symbol of Washington’s commitment to an apolitical working relationship with Moscow. Breaking it, some government officials have feared, would invite the Russians to retaliate by suspending nuclear inspections under the new Start treaty — inspections that have continued despite the differences over Ukraine.

But the Obama administration’s decision was made easier by the dwindling nature of the nation’s space program. Grand plans for international space programs have largely withered, as the space shuttle program has ground to an end. “There’s a sense that we don’t need the space relationships the way we once did,” one senior government scientist said, “because we don’t have as much going on in space.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/world/europe/nasa-breaks-most-contact-with-russia.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0

[Daniel537]

30. How childish.

Talk about taking your ball and going home.

[Recursion]

31. Aren't they our ride, now that we don't have the Shuttle anymore?

That's like Ferris suspending cooperation with Cameron.

[City Lights]

32. LOL, that'll show 'em!