Florida Bill Would Allow Hidden Guns For All In Times Of Turmoil, Widespread Panic

[big_dog]

Source: The Raw Story

Over the objections of the Florida Sheriffs Association, the Florida House has passed a bill that would allow all gun owners to conceal their weapons in public during hurricane evacuations, toxic events, and riots.

The bill, HB 209, which was strongly supported by the National Rifle Association, passed 80-36, according to the Miami Herald. Rep. Heather Fitzenhagen, (R-Fort Myers), who sponsored the bill, called it a win for liberty.

“The bells of liberty are surely ringing throughout Florida today,” she said. “We are making sure that no Floridian in lawful possession of a firearm must leave it behind while evacuating in an officially declared state of emergency.”

However sheriffs from around the state opposed the bill, calling it “crazy.” “The bill is crazy, it’s absurd,” said Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri. Disregarding recent controversies over Florida’s ‘Stand Your Ground’ law, Rep. Jimmie Smith, (R-Inverness), said concerns over the new law are overblown. “Every single time we’ve made changes to protect the Second Amendment rights of people, we hear about this wild wild west,” Smith said. “It’s going to be more dangerous. Shootings everywhere. And yet, we have one of the lowest rates of crime we’ve ever been at.”

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/12/florida-bill-would-allow-hidden-guns-for-all-in-times-of-turmoil-widespread-panic/

[onehandle]

1. Small penises squeal with joy. nt

[7962]

14. The bigger the gun, the smaller......

[Nanjing to Seoul]

17. Some gun hugger on DU will complain they are tired of people equating guns to the size of a man's

penis. . .then they will accuse you of being a bigot and flag the post for a jury review.

Gun huggers, like like southerners, tend to have the thinnest of skin.

oh, btw. . .+1000

[Judi Lynn]

22. If you had to choose who should have guns, it should be intelligent, sane people,

wouldn't we think?

Most clearly it should NEVER be emotionally immature, undeveloped, self-centered, ignorant, thin-skinned, hot heads, people who are ruled by their blind emotions connected to very dimly lit brains.

It's so damned odd!

[davidpdx]

2. So be careful what you say in one of those evacuation shelters

The person sitting next to you may be packing.

[SecularMotion]

3. Opposed by The Sheriffs Association & The National Guard

Despite objections from sheriffs group, reckless gun bill still on target

The Florida Sheriffs Association is the latest victim of NRA bullying.

I wrote last week about what happened to the Florida National Guard's lawyer who told a Florida Senate committee that it wasn't a good idea to allow all the state's legal gun owners -- most of whom haven't bothered to be trained to carry concealed weapons -- to carry concealed weapons after evacuating their homes during a state emergency, such as a hurricane.

"People aren't thinking clearly," Army Capt. Terrence Gorman told the Florida Senate Military and Veterans Affairs, Space and Domestic Security Committee. "And when they aren't thinking clearly, they probably shouldn't have a weapon shoved into the back of their pants. Especially when you're talking about thousands of people that have to be evacuated."

http://www.ctpost.com/opinion/article/Cerabino-Despite-objections-from-sheriffs-group-5377463.php

[TwilightGardener]

4. Yeah, what helps calm chaos and panic more than guns?

[Nanjing to Seoul]

18. setting fires? Tear gas bombs? Illogical pandering to emotion (Bundy Ranch)?

[Baitball Blogger]

5. We are ruled by crazy.

And no one can stop it.

[sarge43]

6. Congratulations to the FL ledge

for making hurricanes safer than evacuation. Way to go.

[Duckhunter935]

7. yep, I would prefer

to have to leave all weapons behind, some I am sure would be unsecured.

[CFLDem]

28. and ripe for the taking.

I didn't rally think of that aspect, and I can tell many of our friends here didn't either.

[daleo]

33. Last year there was a huge flood in Southern Alberta, Canada

Many people evacuated their homes and there were unsecured guns left behind. The RCMP secured the guns, by taking them to police stations until the evacuation was lifted and people returned to their homes. The Conservative government later criticized the RCMP for their actions. I guess they preferred that the guns be left unsecured in unlocked houses.

[IkeRepublican]

8. More pandering to the gun nuts

It's already on the books. And I do support such a measure - in the OLD law. But, really, Republicans today are just spitting out manufactured laws to pander anymore. They're like pre-school kids running to their parents with what ever paper-and-paste project did for the day. "Look what I did!"

Bastards.

[chuckstevens]

9. This is an Onion Article or Saturday Night Live Skit, right?

[yuiyoshida]

10. I wonder ...during the next huge hurricane

how many people will be discovered dead, with bullet holes? Imagine investigating after the fact?

[Nanjing to Seoul]

21. Oh, lots. . .and remember, their right to life is secondary to a gun humper's right to put large

holes into them.

[Armadotrasgo]

11. I don't necessarily see a problem

What's the difference? I mean, when things are sketchy, why start disarming people at that point?

[blkmusclmachine]

12. Our family already isn't going to FL anymore because of the vy bad SYG laws. News laws are just

overkill!

[rpannier]

13. Makes Sense

When the Zombie Apocalypse comes you don't want no bureaucrat telling you that you how you can and can't fully arm yourself

[freshwest]

15. 'Times Of Turmoil, Widespread Panic?' Sounds like another GOP coup is being planned.

[Cal Carpenter]

30. Or a jam band festival n/t

[reflection]

42. My thoughts exactly.

I was wondering if guns could be used during times of Phish as well.

[Brickbat]

48. GMTA.

[Blue_Tires]

50. Floridians still live in fear of some great black uprising

since we're evidently so pissed off about the Zimmerman verdict...

[freshwest]

55. I've always been in awe that this has not happened. The reason that white racists fear it so much,

is that they know they have done them wrong. It's not guilt in the regular sense, but even a dog knows when stealing the chickens, that he has something to fear.

It's the nature of the world to be in balance and they have pushed it out of wack. They fear the pendelum swinging on the arc to the middle again, and taking them out as it swings on the outliers. No amount of words of denial saves the subsconscious from judging what is wrong. Their fear is from dancing around in their heads, but their brains really know better.

I regard blacks as pacifists because it's wise. Racists are violent and loud since they know their position can't last. Violent because they are so afraid they feel they must act, and loud because they are trying to drown out their inner voice.

Only thing sustaining them is the media feeding them this stuff, they don't have to work hard to continue with their learned denials.

[roguevalley]

16. I always wanted to visit Florida. I don't think that will ever happen with all the gun shit.

They are shooting their image of the state in the balls. I wonder how much the crazy has changed people's opinion of Florida as a worthwhile destination?

[Nanjing to Seoul]

20. I'm not taking my wife there when I bring her to the States for the first time. And she wants to go

to Disney World.

[Mojorabbit]

35. Disney World is a fun visit

I live here. Really it is fine. She will have a lovely time. The weather is gorgeous except in the high heat of summer and the beaches are beautiful.
Most people here are not out shooting up the neighborhood.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

38. I know. I've been there five times. But she's Chinese and convinced she will get shot in Florida

No, I am not making that up. Irrational fears are normal here.

[raccoon]

41. I don't think the fear is irrational. Foreign tourist have been shot in the US. nt

[Hip_Flask]

72. People have been struck twice by lightning and then attacked by a swarm of bees...

It's a matter of how likely something is to happen and even with the various stories coming out of Florida the actual odds of being in such an incident are incredibly tiny.

[upaloopa]

54. Yea most people. But then most people don't

Have guns. Your state is carrying more for gunners than most people. I'll never go to FL again and I use to go every year.
Too bad your state elects right wing nut cases.

[elzenmahn]

25. I'm never going there...

...as long as they have these laws on their books.

They can find plenty of potential tourists and residents in the Small Male Member club that permeates groups like the NRA. Maybe they can get Ted Nugent to head their Office of Tourism (or equivalent). After all, the NRA and the gun nuts have the state in a Stranglehold.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

19. This isn't have "what a stupid idea" written all over it, due to the NRA and ALEC.

Because nothing calms people in a panic faster than gunfire.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. In a related story,....let's make it legal for a fetus to have a gun....

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/04/11/3425665/south-carolina-stand-your-ground/

[elzenmahn]

24. Between this and the Stand Your Ground law...

...God (in whatever form you believe or don't believe) help us.

And the fact that then NRA wields more power than Law Enforcement when it comes to lobbying about public safety issues...should speak volumes.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. People wonder why I sometimes want Mass to secede

Why do I want political union with people who are this crazy?

[secondvariety]

27. Aftermath of a hurricane-

no power, food and water shortages, gas shortages, 90 degree temperatures, everyone packing a gun. This would only make sense to a sociopath.

[CFLDem]

29. Everyone who wants to pack heat

is already packing.

[Mojorabbit]

36. I was in Biloxi after Katrina

There was no power, no law enforcement, and we were camping in the front yard of the destroyed house in a destroyed neighborhood. The road had just been bulldozed so a car could get through. Three am and headlights cruising through. A couple of neighborhood guys were armed and keeping watch and confronted the car and sent them on their way. I am of two minds about this. It is hard to imagine unless you experience it. Most people were lovely and helped each other to clean up the mess but there is always an element which will take advantage of a bad situation.

[secondvariety]

37. 2004 was

a busy hurricane season here. A couple of days after Frances, I was sent down to Charlotte County to deliver and set up generators for the county. Lots and lots of displaced folks in shelters and lots and lots of folks standing in line getting food and water. Later that month, Jeanne swiped the Tampa Bay region. I didn't have power for 10 days. Seemed like we were in a hurricane watch/warning continuously during the season of 2004.

I agree with you on being of two minds, but the idea of overheated, desperate people fighting for scant resources while packing heat is kind of unnerving.

[jpak]

31. I turned down a job in Florida because of this bullshit

Hurricanes are bad enough without the gun nuts.

Yup

[valerief]

32. Pure American lunacy. nt

[Turbineguy]

34. Because when things are tense and people are nervous

having a gun handy is just the thing.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

39. what a great idea.

it'll look just like a panicked populace in a Godzilla movie. Oh, no wait...it won't. They didn't have hidden guns.

[Doctor_J]

40. We need another of those posts about the Repukes are in their death throes

[FiveGoodMen]

43. Sane people of the world: DO NOT APPROACH FLORIDA!

It is armed and extremely dangerous.

[Sammy Glick]

44. In a time of "widespread turmoil and panic"...

... who would worry about whether carrying a hidden gun was legal?

[nomorenomore08]

45. "And yet, we have one of the lowest rates of crime we’ve ever been at."

Yeah, well, wrongfully acquitting people of murder does tend to lower the "official" crime rate...

[melm00se]

46. let's look at actual data

Florida Statewide Murder by Firearm, 1971 - 2012

US Firearm Deaths (I'll save you some time: it's in table 18 on, for me, page 83).

Firearm Death rate by State

[EX500rider]

65. NO!!! NOT FACTS!!! YOU'LL RUIN EVERYTHING!! lol n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. "Let's make a law for when the social order breaks down!"

They seem to be quite literally stupid.

[Feral Child]

53. They don't get

the concept of "irony", do they?

[truthisfreedom]

49. This is the repuke answer to global warming/climate change.

Zero intelligence, all violence.

[appleannie1]

51. Just another reason to never spend a dime on vacation in Florida. They can happily

shoot each other while I vacation elsewhere.

[upaloopa]

52. Low crime = nobody getting shot! Yea right.

I doubt a gunner is going to leave his guns behind in an evacuation. They are the most important things they own.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

56. Do you want guns left unsupervised in an evacuation? How does that make sense?

[upaloopa]

57. It don't matter what I want. A gunner is going to do

what a gunner is going to do.
Maybe if there were less guns we wouldn't have as much of a problem.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

59. Ah, I see.

It's unsafe to leave guns unsupervised but people get all cranky-pants at the thought of the owners taking responsibility for their guns.

Ergo the obvious solution is to make the owners leave their guns behind but since that would be unsafe it's best just to ban the gun in the first place.

If y'all could put that much conniving into dealing with real, actual malcontents maybe people would voluntarily disarm. But I suppose it's easier to go after peaceable people -- no real courage required.

[upaloopa]

60. I never said any of that shit. Where do you guys learn

Last edited Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:46 PM - Edit history (1)

your posting skills? Does it say make sure you get your talking points in no matter if they fit the situation or not?
Come on let us in on the site that teaches gunners how to troll on boards.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

61. You complained there were too many guns

The number of guns -- the number you complained about -- is born from a environment where people are free to acquire what they want when they want it. That speaks to two elements: desire + accessibility

I don't think attempting to change society's overall attitudes (desire) about gun ownership will prove fruitful. Considering the bellicosity that generally accompanies anti-gun advocacy those advocates either A) reinforce the impression its best to maintain a defense or B) are so repugnant nobody who isn't already one of them ever wants to be like them.

That leaves removing accessibility. I'm curious as to how you intend to contend with accessibility in such a manner as to substantially mitigate the original stated problem of "too many guns." You will have to affect a regime that impedes currently observed (or increased) levels of desire. That would effectively be the banning you so strenuously claim to resist (though I doubt you would defend against such proposals).

If there's a third factor I neglected to consider then please feel free to offer an explanation.

[upaloopa]

62. Where did you read complain?

Logic if the problem is guns left around the less guns means less guns laying around. Thus less of a problem.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

63. "Logic if the problem is guns left around the less guns means less guns laying around."

Allowing people to properly secure what is rightfully their property would also mitigate the issue of guns lying around. As your proposal shows you're not about safety but unduly restricting the right to own guns.

[upaloopa]

64. Play your games I don't give a shit.

Is there anything else in your life besides fear of losing your guns?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

66. You keep using weasel terms.

You say the problem is too many guns. When it is pointed out that you're trying to ban guns, i.e. keep people who are normally eligible to acquire guns from being able to do so, you protest that this is not your intent. When I dissect the process and note that you are singularly focused on accessibility you complain I am playing word games.

Either you are trying to deny accessibility or you are not. Don't be afraid to admit it and if you are afraid to admit it then the next question is: Why?

[Hip_Flask]

73. Now now...

They could just store their gun with a super responsible government authority figure and then whenever they need it, they can just drive to the state armory, take a quick 100 question test, pay a small storage and handling fee and run an updated background check to see if you've been to a mental health professional, are having domestic problems or any financial issues.

If it all checks out you can head home with your allocated ammunition and deal with ya know... whatever...

[Nihil]

67. Guns can be left "unsupervised" for weeks if necessary without a problem.

All it takes is a responsible gun-owner who locks the weapons in a proper gun-safe.

On the other hand, if the gun-owner *isn't* a responsible one then the problem already
exists - with or without any "breakdown of law & order" - and any evacuation really
isn't being helped by having the already-proven irresponsible people *armed* is it?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

68. When you fabricate a defintion to serve a desired outcome its easy to argue in favor

of that outcome.

You play a semantic game of defining "responsible" exclusively as "uses a safe" while deliberately -- and without cause -- excluding the fact that there are other means to secure a weapon, i.e. not leaving weapons unattended. It is, at a minimum, disingenuous.

Even with a safe the home may well be destroyed in which case a gun safe could still be stolen. Also, disaster areas may remain devastated for weeks and months. Yet, somehow, people argue that these weapons be left unattended for the duration. Perhaps a better policy is that people making such ridiculous suggestions be disregarded as unserious and dangerous.

[Nihil]

69. No fabrication necessary.

This OP statement ...

>> Florida House has passed a bill that would allow all gun owners to conceal
>> their weapons in public during hurricane evacuations, toxic events, and riots.

... combined with this OP statement ...

>> Currently, Floridians must have a concealed carry permit to carry in public
>> without the weapon showing.

... suggests that, without such a bill, it would *not* be legal for gun owners who do *not*
have a concealed carry permit to conceal their weapons in public whilst those who *do*
have such a permit are legally able to carry the guns with or without evacuations, riots, etc..

If so, when the non-CC-permitted folks leave their house at present (e.g., to go to work,
a ball-game, for a drink or whatever), what do they do with the weapon that they are not
permitted to carry concealed?

Do they:
a) Carry it concealed anyway?
b) Carry it openly?
c) Leave it behind in a blah-blah-approved gun-safe?
d) Leave it behind somewhere other than in a blah-blah-approved gun-safe?


(Note: If you view the words "a gun-safe" as being specific to a particular product then we are
simply at cross-purposes as I am using it generically, not as a trademark of Brand Whatever.)


Option (c) is obviously the one I had suggested was the behaviour of a "responsible" owner.

I admit I had disregarded (b) initially as that didn't seem to be the point of the
regulation change but hadn't intended that omission to "fabricating a definition".

I did however consider options (a) & (d) to be irresponsible - (a) because it would be illegal
and (d) because having a gun in the house outside a gun-safe without the owner present
under those circumstances (work/pub/ball-game) is no different from having a gun in the
house outside a gun-safe without the owner present under the specified circumstances
(evacuation/toxic leak/riot).

How are you interpreting those two cases differently please?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

70. Concerning option (a)

I did however consider options (a) & (d) to be irresponsible - (a) because it would be illegal
and (d) because having a gun in the house outside a gun-safe without the owner present
under those circumstances (work/pub/ball-game) is no different from having a gun in the
house outside a gun-safe without the owner present under the specified circumstances
(evacuation/toxic leak/riot).

(a) would not be illegal if the law passes

Many people own guns but choose not to carry, concealed or otherwise. The law would do nothing more than grant them an exemption to the carry laws during time of crisis. Carry laws can be rather -- "intricate." Would it really be worth prosecuting and imprisoning someone who put an unloaded weapon in the passenger cabin of their vehicle along with their clothes, other valuables etc. but also had their ammunition, still in its original box, within arm's reach of that weapon while trying to evacuate?

I do not believe there is any value to society in prosecuting people who are of peaceable intent and trying to personally maintain positive control of their weapons (which seems a plus to responsible ownership).

I do, however, agree that leaving weapons behind unsecured and unattended would be irresponsible.

[Evasporque]

58. one chart says it all

[Orsino]

71. Allows us to defend our homes even when we are not at home!

Even if your home has already been destroyed, you should be able to shoot anyone who might threaten your next one.