US: Russia has 'days, not weeks' to follow accord

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By NEDRA PICKLER and JULIE PACE

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) - Russia has "days, not weeks" to abide by an international accord aimed at stemming the crisis in Ukraine, the top U.S. diplomat in Kiev warned Monday as Vice President Joe Biden launched a high-profile show of support for the pro-Western Ukrainian government. Russia in turn accused authorities in Kiev of flagrantly violating the pact and declared their actions would not stand.

Biden, the highest-ranking American official to visit Ukraine during its conflict with Russia, planned to meet with government officials in the capital of Kiev on Tuesday. The vice president also planned to announce new technical support to help the fledgling government with energy and economic reforms.

Biden's trip comes days after the U.S., Russia, Ukraine and Europe signed an agreement in Geneva calling for Moscow to use its influence to get pro-Russian forces to leave the numerous government buildings they now occupy in cites throughout eastern Ukraine. The U.S. asserted on Monday that publicly available photographs from Twitter and other media show that some of the troops in eastern Ukraine are Russian special forces, and the U.S. said the photos support its case that Moscow is using its military to stir unrest in Ukraine.

There was no way to immediately verify the photographs, which were either taken from the Internet or given to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe last week by Ukraine diplomats.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140421/DADAPC282.html

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U.S. Vice President Joe Biden , left, is greeted upon arrival at Borispol airport outside Kiev, Ukraine, Monday April 21, 2014. U.S. Vice President Joe Biden will meet with Ukraine's acting president, Oleksander Turchinov, and Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk on Tuesday, during a visit to Kiev. (AP Photo/Sergei Chuzavkov)

[msongs]

1. putin's plan to take over ukraine using agitators proceeds on schedule nt

[okaawhatever]

2. What violations have the Kiev gov't committed? Russia needs to be more specific, all the article

has is this quote,

Words and actions by Ukrainian leaders are "absolutely unacceptable," he declared.

[newthinking]

4. They have not reigned in Right sector which is on the rampage

They were involved in the drive by killings in the southeast and have really been the sore spot in this whole thing. It is really telling that Kiev will not reign them in, neither will they remove their leaders from key executive positions.

Exactly why? If they do not identify with neo nazi's?

[okaawhatever]

6. No one knows who was involved in those killings. Of course, there wouldn't have been killings had

the pro-Russian and Russian militia not blocked off access to an entire town. And of course, the only media being allowed is is Russian media.

A team of mediators is heading to eastern Ukraine to try to persuade the pro-Russian groups to disband, but it appears to be facing an unenviable challenge. Attempts by the Guardian to enter Slavyansk were brusquely repelled by armed men. The situation for non-Russian journalists in eastern Ukraine has become increasingly precarious in recent days.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/20/ukraine-crisis-geneva-deal-slavyansk

If Russia isn't fascist then why do they support all the far right fascist groups in Greece, Hungary, Germany and others?

[newthinking]

20. Ukrainian media is severely controlled (by svoboda) and full of disinfo as well

It takes a lot of work to cut through the bullshit.

Again though, can you explain why Right Sector is still in Executive positions in the administration, and still being allowed to act as "Security" in the country?

[okaawhatever]

21. Ukrainian media "severely" controlled by Svoboda? Give me a break. They only garnered 10% of the

vote last election. That was their best showing in 10 years. They clearly don't control much. Can you explain why Putin and the Kremlin support fascist nationalist organizations in other countries?

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10024735453

[newthinking]

26. You are not very informed if you aren't aware the role they have in National Security

They sure do have important positions if they "don't control much?

Svoboda members in Cabinet Positions

Oleksandr Sych - Vice Prime Minister
Andriy Mokhnyk- Minister of Ecology
Ihor Shvayka - Minister of Agriculture
Oleh Makhnitsky - acting General Prosecutor
Andriy Parubiy Secretary of the Security and National Defense Committee (One of the founders of Svoboda who conveniently changed his party to "Fatherland" recently)
His deputy is Dmytro Yarosh, leader of the even further right-wing group Pravyi Sektor.

The government actively sought to sign up Right Sector members in their Military and there are many now in it as well.

This Svoboda PM is "Chairman of the commission on Free Speech" - Irony as he beats a TV manager in this video and forces him to resign (along with another Svoboda PM). Sure, no intimidation there. He was not removed from the Rada and still has his position.

[psychopomp]

42. Upthread, I wasn't so sure of your claim..

But after reading the above post, I've changed my mind. Ukraine has a serious problem with far-right extremism and in no way is the current government upholding democratic principles to the standard that would make Ukraine culturally of the West. In that sense, it has the same sort of problem that Russia has.

[Bobbi5]

40. They are fascists.

The real thing. Not just teabaggers in colonial costumes with lawn chairs.

[Demeter]

3. You and what army, Joe?

[DeSwiss]

5. Fucking sword rattlers. n/t

[Jesus Malverde]

29. Come on Swiss

You need to contribute more to the military industrial complex....

Quit being such a buzzkill.

[quadrature]

7. if Russia does not comply, what happens?

the usual,
or something different?

[davidpdx]

9. My guess is something different

Obama has already bluntly stated we will not put troops on the ground. He has quite a few options that are non-lethal.

Putty-poo is seriously underestimating what will happen if he continues his charade.

[ballyhoo]

11. No, I think people are underestimating what

Putin has at his disposal should the US put troops on the ground. IMO, that will be it. The US only engages countries it can easily decimate. That will NOT be Russia--or Sino-Russia.

[The Magistrate]

12. Russia, Sir, Is Just As Leery Of Shooting At U.S. Troops As We Are Of Shooting At Russian Troops

No one, anywhere, is threatening war between Russia and NATO over this.

Measures taken will be economic, and for that there is a great deal of scope, particularly since the oligarchs who Putin serves tend to keep their in denominations other than ruble....

[ballyhoo]

13. And the oligarchs the US serves will be fleeing the dollar once

their hidden caches all over the world have to be reported to the IRS under severe penalties (HR 2847). And it did not appear the Fencer pilot was too leery of buzzing the Donald Cook three dozen times in the Black Sea. In terms of relative leeriness between Russia and the US in terms of taking substantive action one against the other, it looks to me the US is the most leery. My opinion, sir. You have yours. I appreciate that. We will know who is right relatively soon and after July 1.

[The Magistrate]

15. 'Buzzing' Is Not Shooting, And Was Routine For Both Sides

Look into histories of the submarine service if you want some real brushes and brush-backs. What you mean by 'substantive' action is unclear; if that is a euphemism for military action, I would consider your view poorly grounded.

Monies in foreign accounts are eminently seizable, and readily messed about with, providing the will to do it is there. Monies in rubles deteriorate daily, and a course of destabilization by Russia will only accelerate the slide.

[ballyhoo]

16. I saw only one side buzzing. And, sir, I

will stick to my "euphemism" for substantive action. The Gulf of Tonkin was probably not substantive action by you either. I'll stick my own perceptions, sir. Thank you for your time.

[The Magistrate]

17. Thank You For The Laugh, Sir

Games of chicken between U.S. and Russian forces go back a long, long way....

[ballyhoo]

18. I wasn't laughing in-country, sir, and

I can guarantee you a "buzzing&quot sic) by a friendly VC would have cost him his life. Out.

[The Magistrate]

19. If You Say So, Sir

[joshcryer]

25. The US doesn't have to "buzz."

If the US comes near, they're meaning to attack, not show off.

[ballyhoo]

27. Thanks for the laugh.........

dd

[joshcryer]

24. Erm, buzzing US fleets is common practice for Russia.

They send in unarmed jets to show off, but if even one of them had armaments visible (actual TOW missiles or whatever) they would be shot down in an instance.

During the cold war, these sorts of flybys “happened all the time,” says Christopher Harmer, a retired Navy officer who served as deputy director of future operations for the US Navy’s Fifth Fleet.

In fact, these kinds of incidents happen more often than ever makes it into the press, says Mr. Harmer, now a senior naval analyst with the Institute for the Study of War in Washington.

“We used to call it the ‘standard harassment package,’ ” and it was meant to send a message.

“It was their way of saying, ‘We the Russian military are still capable of monitoring the US Navy and still capable of putting ourselves in a position to harm you if it comes to that,’ ” he says.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/2014/0415/Russian-aircraft-buzz-US-Navy-destroyer-How-big-a-deal

[davidpdx]

22. The US will not put troops on the ground

It's a pity I have to repeat myself and what Obama has already said. So using logic, if force are not used, what is left?

[ballyhoo]

28. US troops arrive in Poland today.....

Sorry for your mistake. Many are making the same. I presume at some point you will understand what is happening. His kingship apparently does not know.

[davidpdx]

30. 600 troops

Not all of them will be in Poland

Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania will get 150 American troops each. The full deployment will be complete “by the end of this weekend, maybe Monday,” Kirby said.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-s--sends-600-troops-to-poland--baltics-in-message-to-russia-over-ukraine-175716068.html

Yes, that's 150 troops PER country. Such an overwhelming show of force. It is a fucking training mission. Maybe you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are ALL NATO allies.

So using the "omg the big bad US is invading Poland" is such BS lies.

Now please tell me WHO has made the mistake.

[ballyhoo]

31. With specificity, those men are "troops". They

are now on the "ground" in a former Soviet State. I never used the words in your second from last statement. I was not the one who made the mistake. The next mistake will be more troops, at which time the former States and satellites will ask what the US is doing putting these troops here with no defense structures. And then here come the defense weapons. And Putin will nod knowingly.

[davidpdx]

32. Troops on the ground in a NATO member country

Doesn't matter whether they are former Soviet States. You are guessing that there will be additional troops. The truth is (and there was a good post by someone who know's what they are talking about on troop deployment) that we don't have additional troops. So where are they coming from? There will be no mass troop deployment there.

[ballyhoo]

33. Okay, David. Let's

see what happens. I think you are trying to be honest and not snarky.

[davidpdx]

35. Did you see the post by the guy who's name is

analyst? He gave a break down of where troops are and which ones are back in the states and not available for deployment. It was quite informative. If I could find it I'd post the link.

[ballyhoo]

37. Yes, I'd like to see that. We should know

more rather quickly I think.

[joshcryer]

23. Tighter sanctions, probably on the oligarchs.

[1000words]

8. U.S. can bluster all it wants ...

Putin is not Saddam.

[ballyhoo]

14. Not even close. Putin went into

whatever joy means to him when Nuland's Nicompoops hit Kiev and started burning tires.

[Psephos]

10. No one is scared when a toothless dog growls...

Putin just chuckles at all the free good PR he gets from this flailing and wailing.

You shouldn't start a fight unless you intend to finish it.

Or you could just shorten that to you shouldn't start a fight.

[Xolodno]

34. Uhm....probably is a matter of weeks.

It hinges on the election the direction they take and what the elected government does next.

[amandabeech]

36. It may hinge, also, on what Angela Merkel and the Chair of Siemens

Electronics want to do next.

The Chair of Siemens was in Russia a couple of weeks ago extolling Russian-German friendship, and reports on Merkel's thoughts are few and far between in English language media.

And I assume that Siemens plants run on Russian natural gas.

[dipsydoodle]

38. You may well be correct about Siemens

although Germany is now supplied by Nord Stream, not Ukraine , and Nord Stream is a joint venture mainly between Gazprom and BASF which of course is German.

The 2008/2009 debacle when it became clear Ukraine was "syphoning" cost Germany a huge bundle in lost industrial out when the gas came close to stopping - even the UK suffered low pressure. If that reoccurs Poland, Slovakia and Hungary won't have any gas to reverse feed back to Ukraine - they're not on Nord Stream.

[amandabeech]

39. I'm aware of the Germans and Nord Stream.

If the Germans displease the Russians, the Russians will cut off the gas. It doesn't matter which country or sea the gas transits between Russia and Germany, it will be cut off if Putin's idea of Russian interests are harmed.

The Germans signed an agreement with an extremely new democracy in a country that but for a few years in the early 20th century had no notion of what that meant. It had no tradition of changing governments peacefully, and it had no tradition of what we in the West would consider a normal governmental situation. The Germans apparently learned nothing from what has been an ongoing problems for the US and other countries tied to religious dictatorships in the Middle East, and tied themselves to a completely unproven country. Now, their hands are tied to someone who wants, in my opinion and not yours, to turn back the clock to 1955, in the middle of a Cold War that constantly threatened to go hot.

[dipsydoodle]

41. Russia has no cause to interupt the flow of Nord Stream

in addition to which its a German company , EUROPIPE , making the pipes for Sud Stream.