U.S. to Place Tariffs on Solar Panels From China

[pampango]

Source: New York Times

The Commerce Department has decided to impose tariffs on solar panels imported from China after concluding that the Chinese government provided illegal export subsidies to manufacturers there.

The tariff decision was likely to be seen as a milestone because of its implications for international trade, renewable energy and American manufacturing. It was the result of a quasi-judicial review process by civil servants in the Commerce Department. But with China and trade policy both hot-button issues in American presidential campaign politics, the imposition of tariffs by a department of the Obama administration seemed certain to enter the partisan fray.

The president’s backers might point to it as evidence that he continues to get tough with Beijing. But opponents, including the Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who are already criticizing Mr. Obama for what they say is the low level of attention to China trade issues, might call the small penalties insufficient.

While American manufacturers oppose the imports, users of solar energy have benefited from low-cost solar panels from China. Globally, the Chinese panels have driven down the cost of solar energy by two-thirds in the last four years, narrowing but not eliminating the wide price gap that used to separate solar power from electricity generated by burning fossil fuels.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/21/business/energy-environment/us-to-place-tariffs-on-chinese-solar-panels.html?_r=1

[onehandle]

1. Additionally, tariff products coming from China, made for American companies.

Yes, I mean Apple too.

[prairierose]

2. onehandle, I agree with you.....n/t

[SamG]

7. 98 Billion or something in savings for Apple?

How many thousands of Americans could have made those ipods and ipads and macbooks and whatever?

98 billion, I bet they could have still made lots of money for Apple and employed half a million MORE reasonably paid Americans instead of exploiting over-worked Chinese or whoever.

[harmonicon]

13. Hi there. Welcome to capitalism.

Apple doesn't manufacture their products. They contract with other companies to do the work. Apple only designs the hardware and software.

If you don't think there should be a competitive market, that's fine, but it is what we have for the time being.

The number of Apple employees would be the same if their products were made in the US. If you're going to be upset about something, at least get your facts straight. For now, there are no American companies in existence which could manufacture Apple's products. Perhaps having tariffs on all goods imported from China would inspire the creation of such a business in the US - I don't know.

[SamG]

14. I have my facts straight, you can throw all the legal

contract papers at me you want to prove that Apple didn't acutally make the ipods or whatever.

I know that! I'm not stupid, and I know a con game when you are pulling one over on me.

Apple wouldn't have millions of products selling in stores if they didn't do some skull duggery with some people who hold children and poor people in bondage somewhere in the world to actually MAKE those products.

Sounds like you're an Apple defender who has no regard for economic justice, nor concern for people polluting rivers with acids and various other metallic toxins as long as you can get your Ipad for $600 US.

I want to say, I like Apple products, they are nifty, they are innovative, they are wonderful. I would never own one until Apple finds a way to make them outside of sweat shops in China or elsewhere.

"The number of Apple employees would be the same if their products were made in the US" FALSE! Put the price up on all Apple products by 10% and people will still buy them, and thousands of Americans, Canadians, Irish, Spaniards, whatever could get off their asses and go to work 8 hours a day in a decent factory and make those buggers for a decent wage.

Try your con game on some other naive fool who doesn't know that paying people decent wages is not really that expensive in the long term. Follow the advice of Henry Ford, pay people enough so that they can own a Ford, themselves.

[harmonicon]

16. I'm afraid that telling the truth isn't a con game.

I'm not sure what an "Apple defender" would be, but I don't think that's what I am. I certainly don't own an ipad and don't think I would ever buy one, no matter the cost.

I assume the computer you're using to post here was made in one of those old mom and pop ye olde timey computer places in the US with a nice hand-crafted processor and memory sticks with lovely filigree that only good ol' mom could add. Computers are made in countries with different labour laws than the US, no matter what brand. This is because this is how capitalism operates. If you want to get rid of capitalism, I'm with you. If you want corporations which function to make a profit to give that up in order to make you feel great about using the collection of plastics and metals to forego making profits, you are dreaming.

Riddle me this: if it's really working conditions and wages that you care about, why are you not arguing for all US manufacturing to move to Europe? Western Europe certainly has better wages and working conditions than the US. Clearly we should stop all manufacturing here until we can meet the world's highest standard.

Ok, work with that, and now follow me one step more: in ten years, China will be Apple's largest market.

After saying that you understand the difference between the company and the companies it contracts with, you seem to think that Apple would hire more people if they contracted with manufacturers outside of China. To go on with the trope of using all capitals which you've engaged in here: FAIL.

Basically, you're just missing the point and fail to see just how much your world-view is skewed by right-wing capitalist propaganda. It is not the responsibility of companies to determine what people are paid. If it was, US manufacturing would be on the same level as Chinese, as would the living and working conditions. It is up to governments to create laws regulating these things. This is the nature of the regulated capitalist system we live in.

Personally, I think wages and working conditions should be improved for workers all over the world. I am not, however, expecting corporations to make this happen.

[harmonicon]

24. Looking at someone's profile is your friend.

I don't live in the US and haven't for five years. I'm quite well-traveled.

If you had thought to ask my opinion, you could find out that I'm a staunch anti-capitalist, and that my thoughts on these underlying matters are actually very well thought out if far to the left of the majority of posters on this forum. You, however, didn't ask for my opinion. I was just trying to set the facts straight for you, but you decided to read it as opinion - it was not.

You should try to have a discussion without resorting to name-calling. I suppose whether or not I'm stupid may be up for debate, but this is not the forum for it - we don't do that here. I'm also incredibly well-educated, but you didn't think to ask.

[joshcryer]

18. May I ask what is competitive about two countries with dramatically different standards...

...where one which has no standards can do things that we, after decades of creating these standards, can't compete?

[joshcryer]

17. Nice.

See, we agree on things.

[saras]

3. Now if the tariffs would just go to subsidize American manufacturers getting started...

[SunSeeker]

4. Yes! More of that please! nt

[mike_c]

5. unless the U.S. also subsidizes PV manufacturers, this will simply drive up the cost...

...of solar power. Taking a global view, those Chinese subsidies help the world by driving down the cost of implementing sustainable energy alternatives. Frankly, the world needs less expensive alternatives to fossil fuels more than it needs to nurture U.S. manufacturers if other nations can get the job done less expensively. Rather than raise tariffs, I'd rather see the U.S. match the subsidies if that's what it takes to give U.S. manufacturers a boost. We certainly subsidize oil companies to the tune of billions in profit, so RAISING the cost for solar is simply not a good idea in any sense. Sure, I know-- this is about eliminating unfair trade advantages, but doing so in a manner that drags the entire industry backwards is short term thinking at its worst.

[SamG]

8. Switch the subsidies we give oil companies to solar and other

carbon-neutral power-source producers, (tidal, hydro, wind, batteries, etc.)

4 billion to oil? W T F??

[kentauros]

10. Considering that the polysilicon supplyer MEMC

has a plant here that is part of the "chemical" portion of the local petro-chemical complexes, then I'd say they probably get some form of subsidy, too. I can't prove that, but they do rely on the oil companies for some chemicals, and then supply back to them with their byproducts, so perhaps at least the raw materials used in PV manufacture are getting subsidized in some form

http://www.memc.com/index.php?view=Pasadena

[julian09]

15. Repugs are fighting anything to reduce oil consumption

From subsidies to,solar, wind, bio-fuel and even high speed rail. All the repug govenors refused money for high speed rail, because the are bought by big oil.

[joshcryer]

19. Solar panels are made by machines for the most part.

Their cost will only go down.

[amandabeech]

27. We'd have to give those U.S. manufacturers a pass on environmental regulations,

workplace safety, workmen's comp and wage and hour laws.

I'm sure that there are others as well.

All those regulations, which are very popular here on DU and certainly with me, add cost to all products even as they make work humane and financially worthwhile and keep our environment clean.

Financial subsidies are only the beginning.

Personally, I'd like to see tariffs on products from overseas made without reasonable and enforced environmental, workplace safety and wage and hour laws. Production workers here would be playing on a level playing field then. Actually, Former Rep. Dick Gephardt was supposed to get those protections in NAFTA either in the text or in a side letter. That did not happen in the Clinton Administration.

[fasttense]

6. Well, did somone get a clue at the Commerce Department?

Now start imposing tariffs on everything sold in the US that's imported and made by cheap labor.

[jwirr]

9. Especially the junk items. None of us need more junk.

[MindMover]

11. Another win for the Corporations.........

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/41483660@N04/6855015680/" title="shoot foot by pbmus, on Flickr"><img src="" width="400" height="383" alt="shoot foot"></a>

[FarCenter]

12. This will probably result in the US using poorer solar panels

The Chinese panels are largely crystaline silicon solar cells. They are somewhat more labor intensive to manufacture.

US manufacturers like Solyndra are attempting to use amorphous silicon or a variety of other thin film combinations that can be coated onto sheets or rolls of materials using highly automated processes in order to keep costs down, given the US' high labor costs. But these panels typically are less efficient at turning sunlight into electricity, are not proven to be durable over decade long service lives, and some combinations use highly toxic materials that must be properly recycled at end of life.

also http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-china-solar-20120320,0,2891514.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fbusiness+(L.A.+Times+-+Business)

SolarWorld Industries America Inc., the largest U.S. maker of silicon solar cells and panels and a subsidiary of Germany-based SolarWorld, has led the U.S. manufacturers' complaints.

[joshcryer]

20. China massively subsidized their solar industry, though.

Solar panels are closer to being more like chip fabrication, they need clean automated facilities. Something the United States and other European countries excel at.

[FarCenter]

25. The labor isn't in the making of the solar cells

The labor is in the making of the crystal boules, sawing the crystals into wafers, polishing the wafers, and then, after the wafers are processed bonding, testing, interconnecting and assembling the wafers into the solar panels.

Processing the wafers is less exacting because there are no sub-micron patterning masks and multiple steps that must be in exact alignment.

Building and maintaining clean rooms can be done anywhere. Making solar cells on crystal wafers is labor intensive, which is why the US manufacturers are looking for materials systems that can be processed on large sheets of material or by coating flexible material in roll to roll processes. However, note that LCD displays, which use processes to coat patterns on large sheets are all made in Asia, not the US.

[lonestarnot]

22. Keep after it!

[markmyword]

23. GE Builds Solar Factory in China

I'm glad if the government puts a tariff on solar panels. It's about time that China and any other country where U.S. companies have out sourced their products should be PENALIZED for moving jobs overseas.

GE was going to make wind turbines and I thought how fantastic all those GREEN JOBS created in the U.S.,new factories, more people hired to make the turbines.

What an idiot I was for thinking that.

GE DID build a factory and it DID CREATE jobs, they just weren't here in the U.S.

GE spent over $200,000,000 building a factory in CHINA and CREATED JOBS IN CHINA!!!!

There's something wrong with that picture and the U.S. government(Obama) needs to penalize companies CREATING JOBS OVERSEAS.

NO GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS if you out source jobs.
NO LOOPHOLES for Corporations at tax time. EVERY COMPANY SHOULD PAY TAXES.
HIGH TARIFFS if you make your product overseas.(let the Chinese buy your products).
NO GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES period.

[Tippy]

26. I like this ....Want more......n/t

[hmmy786]

28. Spam deleted by OKNancy (MIR Team)