California School District Under Fire for Holocaust-Denial Assignment

[AScott]

Source: Yahoo!

A California public school district has backpedaled after an eighth-grade assignment — to write a persuasive essay on whether or not the Holocaust occurred — came under serious fire and prompted death threats to administrators.

“We are aware of the controversy surrounding the distribution of an eighth grade Writing Prompt during the third quarter of the academic year,” notes a press release issued Monday by Rialto Unified School District interim Superintendent Mohammed Islam. “The intent of the writing prompt was to exercise the use of critical thinking skills. There was no offensive intent in the crafting of this assignment. We regret that the prompt was misinterpreted.”

Calls placed by Yahoo Shine to various extensions at the school district for further comment went unanswered on Tuesday.

The assignment, “Is the Holocaust a Hoax?” was reportedly issued districtwide to eighth graders in April. It asked students to “write an argumentative essay, based upon cited textual evidence, in which you explain whether or not you believe [the Holocaust] was an actual event in history or merely a political scheme created to influence public emotion and gain wealth.”

Read more: https://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/california-school-district-under-fire-for-holocaust-denial-assignment-153156708.html

---

Note the faux apology, saying in essence, "We're sorry you're mistaken about us".

[Major Nikon]

1. Sure, Cliven Bundy isn't a racist either. Just ask him.

[Jefferson23]

2. How bizarrre and repugnant..no one in authority looking at this long before it was assigned

to students thought..hey, this is disgusting??

The story about picking cotton? This is incompetence on steroids.

[Jefferson23]

4. Bullshit. n/t

[Jefferson23]

15. Ridiculous assumption on your part..conservatives don't like students being taught to think?

Do you understand the meaning of the word respect?

If they planned on teaching about the Holocaust, then teach it..through these means they
are going off into a hornets nest and I doubt they realize what they're doing.

Same with the picking cotton, it is a poor choice venue to teach students through these means,
accuracy and empathy can be taught about history without choosing these stupid approaches.

[LanternWaste]

25. I imagine many other benign issues may have been used...

"Best way of doing that is to assign them a task of..."

I imagine many other benign issues may have been used rather than one which for far too many people still, is yet a strong trigger warning...




However, I'm quite sure many people will rationalize why this issue, and this issue alone is "the only way to... teach critical thinking to students"

[whistler162]

8. Yup... a way of teaching critical thinking

and debate skills.

[totodeinhere]

10. I agree with you. No topic should be sacrosanct. And it would be a great

learning experience about the Holocaust.

[geek tragedy]

16. Would you support "rape: should it be legalized" or "were blacks

better off under slavery" as topics of debate amongst 8th graders?

[geek tragedy]

21. Simple: treat Holocaust deniers like the moral and intellectual lepers they are.

It's not a matter of critical thinking. Holocaust denial is a function of bigotry, of hatred towards all Jews, not a matter of historical debate.

The only ones who question whether it happened secretly with Hitler had finished the job.

We don't debate whether bigotry, racism, and genocide are good ideas. We teach that they are reprehensible.

[geek tragedy]

31. holocuast denial is bigotry, one does not debate bigotry, one simply rejects it.

we don't encourage kids whether to debate the wisdom of playing in traffic, or shooting each other, or burning synagogues.

similarly, holocaust denial is not an intellectual exercise wherein someone should try to see if the denier has a point.

One should simply refuse to listen to anything that person has to say, write them off, and move on.

before people can engage in critical thinking, they need to learn how to filter.

elevating neo-nazi hate speech to the level of legitimate debate and inquiry leads to nothing good.

I guess if people want their kids to hang out at stormfront for their homework assignments, they can do so at home, but school districts should not be encouraging that.

[geek tragedy]

40. you seem unable to distinguish between legitimate topics of debate and illegitimate

ones.

whether the Holocaust happened is NOT NOT NOT a matter of legitimate debate. this exercise treats it as a matter of legitimate debate, and thus is a failure ab initio

Other claims that are not a matter of legitimate debate:

whether dark-skinned people are a lower species than light-skinned people
whether the earth is flat
whether the sun orbits the earth
whether people can fly by jumping off a tall building and flapping their arms

[geek tragedy]

44. well, you go ahead and encourage your kids to keep an open mind

about whether genocide is a good idea then

Holocaust denial has been FACTUALLY DISPROVEN.

It's not a matter of debate. There is a right and a wrong answer. Just like whether someone can fly by jumping off a tall building and flapping their arms.

It is not something one debates, it is something one learns.

[NuclearDem]

47. There absolutely are topics that have no legitimate debate.

Does evolutionary theory explain the diversity of life? Yes, case closed. Creationism is not a legitimate counterpoint.

Is climate change occurring? Yes, case closed. Claiming scientists say so to get funding is not a legitimate counterpoint.

Did the Holocaust occur? Yes, case closed. Claiming that it was manufactured to generate sympathy for Israel is not a legitimate counterpoint.

The right, by and large, are the ones that use "teach the controversy" to get their completely unfounded teachings broadcast as legitimate.

[NuclearDem]

42. No, just don't elevate Antisemitism and white supremacy to the level of legitimate counterpoint.

All that needs to be said about it is that it exists, comes from a place of bigotry and hate, and has no evidence to back it up.

Teaching and examining controversial topics is good, but the fact that the Holocaust happened is not a controversy.

[sulphurdunn]

79. Kids will hang out

on whatever websites they want, regardless of what their parents think. Teaching them all the aspects of critical thought and skepticism needed to identify manipulative argumentation is the only defense from what they may encounter there whether it's Storm Front or something else.

[geek tragedy]

80. the problem is that the Rialto school district was explicitly telling

kids that Holocaust denial sites were 'credible' sources of information on the Holocaust.

They were telling kids to believe what they read on those sites.

Which is kind of the exact backwards-ass opposite of critical thinking.

[NuclearDem]

30. Treating something like the Holocaust as having two *legitimate* views is the problem.

It ends up putting in the kids' minds that there may actually be something to Holocaust denialism.

If they wanted to test the kids' critical thinking skills, then there's a plethora of historical subjects, like Hiroshima/Nagasaki. There was absolutely no benefit to using the Holocaust.

[AScott]

38. They instructed the children to go to an anti-Semetic hate site for information.

http://ktla.com/2014/05/05/rialto-assignment-asking-to-students-to-question-holocaust-to-be-revised/#axzz30sp8CKDK

The 18-page assignment instructions included three sources that students were told to use, including one that stated gassings in concentration camps were a “hoax” and that no evidence has shown Jews died in gas chambers.

“With all this money at stake for Israel, it is easy to comprehend why this Holocaust hoax is so secretly guarded,” states the source, which is a attributed to a webpage on biblebelievers.org.au. “In whatever way you can, please help shatter this profitable myth. It is time we stop sacrificing America’s welfare for the sake of Israel and spend our hard-earned dollars on Americans.

http://www.fighthatred.com/web-of-hate/fundamentalists/551-biblebelieversorgau

Would you have schools instruct children to go to pro-Nazi websites when teaching them about WW2?

[geek tragedy]

41. Ugh. Someone needs to be fired for that.

Seriously, assigning Neo-Nazi websites as required reading material?

Either a profound idiot or a nazi plant was responsible.

[groundloop]

5. Death Threats - now that's a good way to express a contrary opinion about a controversial subject

[totodeinhere]

11. What are you implying? That someone with a Muslim sounding name

is not capable of approaching the subject of the Holocaust in a proper way? Because if you are you need to be called out on your anti-Muslim bigotry.

[DreamGypsy]

18. Did you read the article?

The assignment, “Is the Holocaust a Hoax?” was reportedly issued districtwide to eighth graders in April. It asked students to “write an argumentative essay, based upon cited textual evidence, in which you explain whether or not you believe [the Holocaust] was an actual event in history or merely a political scheme created to influence public emotion and gain wealth.”

District spokesperson Syeda Jafri tells CBS Los Angeles that the district’s superintendent was unaware that the assignment had been issued until angry parents informed his office, and that it had come out of the Educational Services Department, which will now undergo sensitivity training. “Absolutely the Holocaust occurred,” Jafri tells CBS. “It was brought to our attention, and we’re not happy. And we are going to correct it.” She says the district is “striking” the offending sentence, although it’s not clear whether the assignment has been nixed, or whether the wording has simply been revised. Jafri adds that both she and Islam have received death threats as a result of the controversy.

I thought the LA Anti-Defamation League's response was very appropriate (emphasis mine):

The Los Angeles chapter of the Anti-Defamation League responded to the Rialto assignment through various statements to media outlets and through a press release it issued on Monday. “It is ADL’s general position that an exercise asking students to question whether the Holocaust happened has no academic value,” notes associate regional director Matthew Friedman in the press release. “It only gives legitimacy to the hateful and anti-Semitic promoters of Holocaust Denial.” He adds that charging eighth graders with the task of proving the Holocaust happened is dangerous, “especially given the large volume of misinformation on denial websites.”

The statement further notes, “ADL does not have any evidence that the assignment was given as part of a larger, insidious, agenda. Rather, the district seems to have given the assignment with an intent, although misguided, to meet Common Core standards relating to critical learning skills.”

[herding cats]

34. Your point being?

I'm increasingly interested in exactly what it is you're implying here. It would appear you want to say something about the districts spokesperson, since you linked an article of a person with the same name. The two people work in different fields, but they do at least appear to share the same name.

What is your point?

[NuclearDem]

36. I think we all know.

That poster's just dancing around it.

[herding cats]

46. They're a terrible dancer.

Their previous post on this topic was hidden by a jury.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

37. What does that have to do with the OP?

[MicaelS]

7. This is so bizarre as to be beyond comprehension.

I was stunned when first read about this. Given all the physical evidence of the time, all the eyewitnesses, that anyone in this day and age could deny that the Holocaust happened is evidence of mental disease or defect.

[totodeinhere]

13. But the school was asking the students to investigate the topic and then write an essay about

it. I see nothing wrong with that. When the students do an objective investigation they will be able to say with a certainty that the Holocaust did indeed happen and they will have had an opportunity to learn about it. After all, some students in this day and age probably don't even know what the Holocaust was. They need to learn about it.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

39. They are 8th. graders!

This is the time for them to start this type of critical thinking!

[geek tragedy]

45. should we teach kids to engage critical thinking about gravity

and the toxic effects of rat poison?

maybe it won't kill you, let's debate it . . .

[AScott]

49. As 8th graders, this may be the first time they've even heard of The Holocaust.

And a third of the websites they're sent to are anti-Semetic hate sites!

[Behind the Aegis]

51. And what about those students who "prove" the Holocaust was a hoax?

Do they fail the assignment?

I agree they need to be taught about the Holocaust, but this is not the way. While certain details may be in question, the Holocaust happened. Period. To even suggest it didn't, is offensive and historical revisionism, and those are things 8th graders do not need to be taught. Want to get all philosophical, then try, "what, if any, effect does the Holocaust have in modern times?" It treats the Holocaust as relevant historical fact, and the 'debate' comes from the theoretical effects of a historical event.

[totodeinhere]

83. They can't prove that it didn't happen because it's a historical fact. So yes

if anyone tired to say it didn't happen then they should get a failing grade. And as far as what eight graders need to be taught or don't need to be taught, I will not second guess professional educators on the scene. I support educators but I don't second guess them.

[geek tragedy]

87. you won't second guess teaching kids that holocaust denial is 'credible'? nt

[totodeinhere]

89. Nobody said that. I suspect that part of the project was allowing the students

to find out based upon their research that denying it is not credible.

[geek tragedy]

92. Did you read the actual assignment? It starts off with a LIE:

When tragic events occur in history, there is often a debate about their actual existence.

You see, this whole Holocaust denial thing is a perfectly natural one, happens all the time, yeah that's the ticket.

In reality, of course, it's only the perpetrators of genocide and their heirs who deny it.

The instructions state:

read and analyze information from multiple, credible sources
independently answer three questions based on these sources

It then provides them with the Holocaust denial article, along with two other articles.

Then it instructs the kids to base their answers on the three articles assigned and designated as 'credible.'

As Josh Marshall noted, Rialto is part of the "Inland Empire" area of California where Nazis have staged a revivalist movement in recent years. Which explains a lot here.

[Augiedog]

9. Blame

Yes, once again it's the viewer who is at fault. "We are sorry you misinterpreted". The classic duck, bob and weave so that whatever you did is blamed on the stupidity of someone else.

[geek tragedy]

14. The language in the assignment is directly drawn from hate groups.

KKK/Neo-Nazis/other virulent anti-semites.

So, whose idea was it to inject white supremacist ideas into school curricula, and why did they choose white supremacist mythologies as the ones to test?

[geek tragedy]

27. sure you can. by teaching kids that anyone who denies the holocaust

is a lowlife scumbag bigot, no exceptions.

[geek tragedy]

32. nice false equivalence there. your slip may be showing

Nazi propaganda preys on the weak-minded. deliberately exposing kids to it is beyond idiotic.

[wickerwoman]

64. +1

Yes, the school could have used a number of other topics to teach these skills and yes, the effectiveness of this assignment depends *a lot* on who is teaching it and the way it is handled, but I don't think there should be verboten topics, certainly for 13-14 year olds- they are old enough to be exposed to racism and fallacious arguments and to be walked through how to pick those kinds of arguments apart.

The advantage of using Holocaust denial is how obviously wrong the deniers are so it's an easy one to pick apart. Choosing a more subtle issue, like Hiroshima, is a much more difficult/advanced critical thinking assignment because there isn't actually a right or wrong answer.

On the other hand, they could have chosen flat earthers or people who support whale hunting or climate change deniers and gotten a similar effect.

[Scootaloo]

65. How do you teach them how to identify that, if you hide it away?

Presenting the caricature of some skinhead doofus in an SS uniform yelling "NOTHING HAPPENED!" actually defeats the effort - there's very little of that, and such people are easily shut down and ignored.

Instead you get places that make "counter-arguments" - it was typhus. it was only because the allies bombed railroads. look what the soviets did. it was a delousing agent. There was a swimming pool. The Germans were ethnically cleaned too after the war. The numbers are inflated. It's used as propaganda. Etc., etc. There's very little denial that "something" happened - the denial comes in with what happened in particular, and what it means.

You have to teach a student how to identify this stuff. And you can't do that by walling it away from them.

Further it's non-educational to say "these are bad, MMMMkay?" since it relies on an assertion of authority rather than demonstration of facts. The "arguments" then, must be taken, examined, and countered. This does mean comparing arguments, sources, and using critical thinking.

Locking such examination and evaluation away, simply yelling "WHAT I SAY IS RIGHT" is actually exactly what the denialists love to see. They make the point that such a position implies there's something to hide, that their arguments "threaten the establishment," and actually preserves them from having to defend their arguments. on the otherh and you can present their arguments, and you can present the relevant facts... and just watch the facts smash those arguments like the Hult charging through balsa wood.

As on the other thread, I'll grant you your concern over the adjective "credible." However I think that's a pretty small thing that makes the assumption on your part that these kids are thoughtless imbeciles.

[geek tragedy]

66. It's actually pretty simple

Teach the Holocaust as the historical fact it is, just like we teach the American Revolution and Civil War for the historical facts they are.

One doesn't see assignments were kids are asked to determine whether Abraham Lincoln was President, or that he was assassinated.

The Holocaust deserves similar treatment in the educational system.

Obviously, we need to teach kids critical thinking skills and to recognize propaganda. But that part gets undermined when--as you acknowledged--they slap the 'credible' label on non-credible propaganda.

[Scootaloo]

68. Interesting that you bring up Abraham Lincoln...

because that brings us to a very major part of his presidency - the Civil War. Nobody denies the presidency of Abraham Lincoln. Nor the years of the civil war.

But it's amazing how much confusion there is about either subject. Oh, not among peopel who make an actual study of the subject sure - there's lots of fact out there to take in. But....

I went to school in Alabama. I was taught that the civil war had absolutely nothing to do with slavery. That nobody anywhere was interested in slavery - except John Brown (and he was a crazy man who summoned tornadoes or something!) The civil war was about hte oppressive north trying to force its will on the plucky south. Secession was about tariffs and state's rights. Rebels were for freedom and truth and the aAmerican way!

it came as an honest to god SHOCK then, to learn that the "state's rights" impetus for secession... was the "right" of slavery. it was never actually detailed exactly what "State's rights" were involved, see? In fact it was strongly implied that the rights the confederate states seceded over... was the right to secede. They seceded because the oppressive north wouldn't allow them to secede, see? And then, to find out that it was South Carolina that started the war by firing on Fort Sumpter? Just wow. The southern kid's mind was blown.

And keep in mind, I'd been learning the "wrong facts" for years. Reinforced by family and culture. And it took maybe three books to blow that entire framework apart. Why? because the "correct facts" were compelling, well-supported, and verifiable, while the ones I had been learning all this time, pretty much dissolved in sunlight like a gremlin.

Had there been "no debate," no constant and regular cross-examination of claims and presentation of questions, I would probably still think in terms of "The War of Northern Aggression." had I been brought up in I dunno, maine, maybe I'd have absolutely no clue as to what the outlook is on the subject in the south.

Exposure to bad history and good history has arguably made me a more learned and capable person than if i had been exposed only to one or the other.

[geek tragedy]

70. sure, just like people should be exposed to different perspectives

about the cause of the Holocaust--everything from historic anti-semitism to ultranationalism to the treaty of Versailles, etc.

But, the analog to the current situation wouldn't be what you experienced, but rather someone denying the historical fact of slavery or the civil war.

How crazy would it be to have an assignment where students were asked to read a 'credible' source that indicated there never was slavery in the United States? That's what this assignment was like

[Scootaloo]

71. See my post, two prior

Seriously, look at what I say there.

Presenting the caricature of some skinhead doofus in an SS uniform yelling "NOTHING HAPPENED!" actually defeats the effort - there's very little of that, and such people are easily shut down and ignored.

Instead you get places that make "counter-arguments" - it was typhus. it was only because the allies bombed railroads. look what the soviets did. it was a delousing agent. There was a swimming pool. The Germans were ethnically cleaned too after the war. The numbers are inflated. It's used as propaganda. Etc., etc. There's very little denial that "something" happened - the denial comes in with what happened in particular, and what it means.

You are frankly arguing against a straw man, some clown running around with a placard saying "there was no Holocaust!" While such clowns probably exist, they aren't what's actually going on when talking of Holocaust denialism. Your comparison to some imaginary person denying that Abraham Lincoln was president is facetious.

Rather than an outright denial, Holocaust deniers seek to cast doubt on what they call 'the official story.' They have a suite of facts of their own, counter-arguments, positions, a lot of stuff. And to refute their claims, you have to actually know those claims. Not doing so, pretending they're not there... just lets them take root. You've got to drag them out into the light and beat the hell out of them with reality.

[geek tragedy]

73. their arguments were all discredited and disproven decades ago

they are denying facts, not providing them. teaching kids that Nazi sympathizers still lie about it, and point the kids in the general direction of the actual historians and their work.

the first key to productive dialogue is learning what and whom to filter out. Holocaust deniers should be explicitly filtered out, their arguments not considered but scorned. Stigmatize them as the nazi assholes they are.

[Scootaloo]

74. But you won't know that unless you are informed about them

And no, they are not denying facts, they are presenting false facts. There's a world of difference there. Of course, one has to understand that "fact" like "theory" or "literally" is a word with a meaning different from how it's often used.

You have to actually present the lie to refute it. There's no other way. You really, honestly can't just go "that person is a liar don't trust them!" unless you are also going to show how they are lying, and what the truth of the matter actually is.

it's interesting that while we're talking about a critical thinking assignment, you seem to show as much hostility towards the concept of critical thinking itself, as the specific subject chosen for examination. Really, your entire argument is that students should just be told what's what and sent out the door just like that; teacher says, therefor it is, good enough, end of the day.

[geek tragedy]

75. The problem is that if you start trying to disprove every lie from

every filthy propagandist, that leaves no time for discussing the truth and open matters.

It's much more helpful and efficient for society to designate Holocaust deniers as pariahs and exclude them from public discourse and the educational system.

[Scootaloo]

77. It does, actually

Since you are disproving the lies with reality, you are giving the true facts greater exposure at the expense of lies. After all, it's why we have the truth. That's what it's fucking for, is to counter lies. If you're not going to use it, what's the point of having it?

And how does one "designate a Holocaust denier" if you can't identify them? Again, it's not a skinhead passing out swastika balloons to kids saying "Hey kids, the Holohoax never happened, mwahahahaha!"

You have to inform people what the claims are, in order for them to recognize when they are being made. Otherwise, they just look like history. Which is what these guys are counting on - confusing people with their version of the events.

[geek tragedy]

78. It's really not complicated. You teach children the truth about the holocaust, and then

note that those who sympathize with the Nazis continue to deny the truth.

That's the way it's done in Europe and North America. We learn that the Holocaust is a fact, and that jew-hating nazi creeps try to lie about it.

[Scootaloo]

81. And yet there's no shortage of denialism in Eurooe and North America

In fact it seems to have its strongest surges in those European nations that attempt to smother it through enforced silence.

Problem is, your approach still amounts to argument from authority. "I say this and I'm right so everyone else is therefor wrong." Even if you ARE right, and they ARE wrong, such an approach rankles. You have to actually provide the tools and means for a person to examine and conclude on their own so that they can go "huh, you ARE right!"

[geek tragedy]

82. No, it's argument from facts. The Holocaust happened, the earth is spherical,

and water flows down hill.

There are stronger outpourings of Nazi propaganda in Europe and North America because that's where the Nazis live.

Though, note that Holocaust denial is a lot more mainstream and socially acceptable outside the US and Europe--in places like the Middle East and South Asia, for example.

[Scootaloo]

84. The earth isn't spherical, actually

Water gives that illusion; the actual body of the planet is weird and lumpy, like a half-deflated soccer ball that's had a rough life.


Even with the water smoothing things out, we're hardly spherical - the poles are flattened and the equator bulges outward.

(Not quite THAT extreme, but still, flatter on top wider in the middle than a sphere)

And yes, it is more prevalent in those societies... however all of it is derived from European / North American denialism. Everything Ahmedinejad ever said was lifted carbon-copy from these putzes we're talking about it; he didn't come up with it himself. Doesn't help that due to a total lack of involvement, those societies tend to not really care who says what either way (you know, sort of like how people in the US don't give a shit about the history of those places) which hardly lends to challenging these outlooks.

Anyway, my point is, you have to know bout and understand the problem to effectively deal with it. You can't just close you eyes and hope it goes away if you ignore it. Denialism needs to be challenged, not given a free pass.

[geek tragedy]

86. the school district wasn't challenging denialism, it was

mainstreaming it.

no different than a high school biology class having a debate on whether blacks were genetically inferior to whites, or women to men, etc etc,

[Scootaloo]

90. Except for the whole "critical thinking and argumentative writing assignment" feature

The work sheet has spaces for additional sources beyond hte three listed - that's a not-very subtle hint that the students on the assignment are absolutely expected to investigate further sources for the topic, and outline what they;re using from those sources.

The students then must present the ideas of "their side" and a defense - in their own words - of those ideas.

They must then present what they consider the best ideas from the other position, and why the student considers those the strongest facts the other side has.

They then write an essay as to whether or not their position will promote or prevent genocide in the future if it were adopted. They gst a choice of one or the other; there is no "genocide-neutral" option.

Really, everything you are saying amounts to "teacher says so therefor it is so." That's no way to educate.

As for your examples, such a race debate was probably one of my more formative moments in school - same Alabama school that i mentioned regarding the civil war, in fact. Two students were in an argument, the white student called the black student the N-word, and the teacher stopped the class - not to censure the student and send him out, but to engage the class on the topic. Why call him that word. Do you know what it means? How do you justify it? What do the rest of you think? etc. etc.

Rather than "Oh my god, you can't say that, get out!" the teacher turned it into a learning moment. The student who launched the word was not only chastized, but also educated.

[geek tragedy]

91. they told the kids that Neo-Nazi propaganda was 'credible'

If biblebelievers is credible, why isn't stormfront or Davidduke.com?

How do kids learn that Lincoln was president or that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor?

By having the debate, they're conceding it's a legitimate one.

[jtuck004]

17. Training future DUers. n/t

[The Green Manalishi]

20. Aristotle said "the mark of an educated mind is to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it

That said, really fucking stupid choice of assignment. All kinds of bullshit history the district should have used instead.

However... the BEST book I ever read on detecting deception was called "How To Lie With Statistics". It did exactly that from the perspective of (IIRC) someone who just got a job lying with statistics, and showed you exactly how to do it.

[arcane1]

24. When I was in 8th grade in the late 70's, we had to take sides debating the single bullet theory.

I applaud the school for attempting to teach critical thinking, at least. Though they could choose a better topic next time. It seems this was an attempt to show students how to debunk BS. We need 1,000 times more of that in schools.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. How did you conclude "this was an attempt to show students how to debunk BS"?

Given the very topic was whether the Holocaust was real or not, it doesn't seem they were trying to debunk anything, unless all of those who "proved" it was a hoax were going to be told they were wrong. Why would they direct 8th graders to hate sites? If they wanted to have a "debate" or engage critical thinking skills, they could have chosen something along the lines of "what, if any impact, does the Holocaust have today? or "was the atomic bomb needed to end the war?" You don't teach "critical thinking skills" by claiming an actual historical maybe a hoax.

[arcane1]

52. Because that's how it was presented, and the ADA agrees.

Stupid and misguided, yes, but I don't think it was a stealth way of teaching Holocaust denial.

[geek tragedy]

53. Except students were told that a Nazi website

was a "credible source" and required the students to base their answer on the content of that Nazi website.

Someone had to have had an agenda.

[arcane1]

55. That's why I used the word "stupid"

I'm not defending this.

[geek tragedy]

56. But, could an adult who doesn't hate Jews have read that site

and concluded it was a credible source?

[arcane1]

57. Maybe, I don't know. I haven't visited the site.

I doubt I would have found it credible.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. It was present as "Is the Holocaust a hoax?" Some people say....

THAT is how it is presented. Was it a stealth way to teach Holocaust denial, I too, doubt that to be the case. However, that is what it does, intentioned or not.

[Golden Raisin]

48. I take it "writing prompt" is

what we call essays nowadays? Are there "arithmetic prompts" too?

[rafeh1]

58. freethinking is freethinking

If you are a freethinker nothing is off limits. everything from God to Jesus to holocaust is all on the table to be questioned and examined. The sooner our kids can freethink the better they will be.

No topic is safe no topic is off limits.

But along with freethink an examination and verification of the facts in question should allow the freethinkers back on earth once they are finished with their what ifs.

[NuclearDem]

61. The Holocaust is not open to questioning.

It happened, and the only people who say otherwise or demand it be open to "question" are antisemitic shitheads. Always has been that way.

Creationism is not a valid counterpoint to evolution, flat earth is not a valid counterpoint in geology, and Holocaust denialism is not a legitimate counterpoint ever.

[geek tragedy]

63. Notice how stuff like "the revolutionary war"

and "the Lincoln presidency" never has its existence treated as a matter of debate?

[Scootaloo]

67. Everything is open to questioning

It's the only way to get answers, after all.

And lucky day, this particular subject is very well-studied, so it has a plethora of damn good concrete answers for pretty much every question you could think of. So let them "just ask questions," there's plenty of reality to go around.

And I will note that there's a difference between Holocaust denialism and say, evolution or climate denialism; Moronic as they are, Holocaust deniers generally stay "within the field." What I mean is, if you were to try to engage ken Ham (or Duane Gish, who lent his name ot the "Gish Gallop) on hte subject of evolution... they're all over the fucking place. You could get something out of developmental biology, you might get something out of scripture, you might get something from Reader's digest, they might try to talk about astrophysics or Islam or who the hell knows what. It's really not worth the effort to engage 'em, as if you present a fact about paleobotany, suddenly they're talking about exoplanets or something and you're going "dafuq?" On the otherh and, engaging a holocaust denier might take you on a weird and roundabout tour of history... but it's still history. Facts you present still smash into their arguments rather handily.

[NuclearDem]

72. "Open to questioning" is often just used as code to get PRATT introduced as legitimate ideas.

The question of whether the Holocaust happened or not is settled. "Questioning" just involves bigots attempting to interject their antisemitic conspiracy theories into the mainstream.

Yes, everything should be open to questioning, but at a certain point, these kids have to be taught that some things are just as close to settled as they can get. Not absolute and final, but with so much evidence supporting it it's highly unlikely to be otherwise.

[Scootaloo]

76. As I tell geek upthread, it's not a situation of "happened or no"

But rather, what the facts of the event are, what they mean, who did what, etc.

Yes, it is, in great part settled. Should the book then be closed, shelved, and placed behind a locked door? Should we be looking at it through hermetically-sealed glass, going "there's the book we never open, thank goodness we all know what's in it!"

...yeah it's a bit overwrought, but really.

No, the book should be on every table, open and readable, peopel should be free to wander around, coming up with ideas and questions and seeking answers - and again, there are answers for pretty much everything you could ask.

So when some imbecile "raises a question" about the gas chambers at Auschwitz... answer his dumb ass. Don't go "Oh my god, you can't ask that!"

Seriously, these guys actually rely on such reaction to make their case. The last thing they want is for people to actually engage their bullshit, because none of it stands up to examination.

[rafeh1]

95. free thinking is not easy

IT scares many people. We need to have structure around freethink and that is called facts and science.

a freethinker can claim balls fall up. The kids should be taught how to get facts how to verify facts and how to present facts so that at the end of the day one is back down to earth with known verifiable facts and process of extracting facts rather than FOX said it or some nazi web site said it.

the facts of the holocaust are unshakable from witness to film to actual survivors. So In fact doing freethink on Holocaust is actually very good since there is so much verifiable facts of its occurrence. If Kids do not freethink then inevitably some will drift into fox orbit believing anything FOX claims while some others will drift into holocaust denial websites. Freethink is hard and ugly but very much needed.

Freethinking is not just about God, Jesus and Bible it should encompass everything is our lives. And after every year we need to freethink everything over again.

[blkmusclmachine]

59. Oh, brother.

[Blue_Tires]

60. Not only was the topic highly questionable

but the Holocaust is way too complex a subject for 8th grade comprehension...The Holocaust didn't just happen in some historical vacuum -- You have to examine all the major factors leading up to it in the short term (The era encompassing the first two World Wars) and the long term (The history of Judaism in the Roman Catholic-dominated Middle ages, at least going back to the Inquisition)...

[geek tragedy]

62. Holocaust School Assignment Sheet Included Text Lifted From Holocaust Denial Website

But initial reports on the disputed essay largely overlooked one of the three sources provided to students, extensive text lifted directly from a Holocaust Denial and conspiracy website, biblebelivers.com.au, titled "Is the Holocaust a Hoax?"

"Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning," the webpage reads. "We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews. Roughly the equivalent of ten football fields should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, yet not one body has ever been discovered."

...

The actual written assignment given to students is at the link. Students were required to base their work on "multiple, credible sources" which included the hate site in question.

Not only were students informed that Holocaust denial was a matter of legitimate debate, but that Nazi hate sites were considered 'credible sources' and even further, required kids to read Nazi propaganda and treat it as a credible source.

Those responsible should be blacklisted from public education.

[kiranon]

96. What is their next assignment - did 9-11 really happen - discuss?

Sounds as if someone, at a minimum, is a conspiracy theory advocate and wants the students to join the group.

[hopemountain]

69. i hope the bigot who made this assignment is fired.

along with ALL of the staff who covered up the bigoted basis & thinking on this assignment

[totodeinhere]

85. From the ADL statement on this matter.

ADL does not have any evidence that the assignment was given as part of a larger, insidious, agenda. Rather, the district seems to have given the assignment with an intent, although misguided, to meet Common Core standards relating to critical learning skills.

[geek tragedy]

88. they were being awfully kind and gracious nt

[DeSwiss]

93. Plato informs us:

''One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.''

- He never mentions what you should do when you do participate and you still end up being governed by them......

[FiveGoodMen]

94. "when you do participate and you still end up being governed by them"

it's because you're outnumbered.

Letting the Fairness Doctrine go and letting churches get into bed with politicians (without losing their tax-exemption) were two of the critical mistakes leading up to this.

Whole generations have been raised to be stupid, arrogant, and vindictive by Hate Radio and the Megachurches (which surely ought to be band name).