Saudi Arabia orders 1,000 lashes and ten-year sentence for editor of website that discussed religion

[firesalesman]

Source: Independent (UK)

A Saudi Arabian court has sentenced the editor of a website that discussed religion in the ultra-conservative Islamic kingdom to 10 years in jail and 1,000 lashes.

Raif Badawi, who started the "Free Saudi Liberals" website, was arrested in June 2012 and charged with cyber-crime and disobeying his father - a crime in the Arab state, local media has reported.

His website included articles that were critical of senior religious figures such as Saudi Arabia's Grand Mufti and allegedly insulted Islam and religious authorities, according to Human Rights Watch.

Badawi was originally sentenced to seven years in prison and 600 lashes in July last year, but an appeals court overturned the sentence and ordered a retrial - which then earned him a more severe sentence.

His retrial led the judge to impose a harsher punishment and fine him one million riyals (£157,000).

In April, the Kingdom introduced a series of new laws which define atheists as terrorists, according to HRW.



Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-orders-1000-lashes-and-tenyear-sentence-for-editor-of-website-that-discussed-religion-9338285.html

[trusty elf]

1. Sickening.

"atheists as terrorists" ?


I'm sure there are plenty in the US of A who could get behind that.

[bananas]

8. yes, posted in lbn a few weeks ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014770500

[psychopomp]

24. Why do you attempt to post in Japanese? That's just stupid.

This is an English-speakers' site. I'd suggest that you post to a Japanese site if you want to use Japanese. Just make sure to use actual Japanese.

[Capt. Obvious]

36. This is America!

?1348335291956

[treestar]

62. On DU it is rather useless to do

A little posting here and there or a word or two. Or at least put a translation. I don't care but it is rather silly in that 99% of DU or more won't understand it.

[KamaAina]

161. Ua mau ke 'ea o ka 'aina i ka pono!

[AsahinaKimi]

41. It is ACTUAL Japanese...

I translated it below.

[psychopomp]

42. No, it was written in romaji

Japanese speakers do not use romanized Japanese to post online. So, the question is, who is your audience? Not DU'ers. If you want to post in actual Japanese, there are plenty of Japanese sites available to do so.

[AsahinaKimi]

43. Um excuse me...

Romaji is JAPANESE. But you know I see what your saying..."Speak English!! THIS IS AMERCIA.." yes, I totally get WHERE you are coming from.

[psychopomp]

44. Nnoooo it's not Japanese

And don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying that Japanese don't use romaji to write JAPANESE. Period. How do I know this? Because I've been living in Japan for the better part of twenty years.

So, like I said, if you want to post in Japanese, feel free to do so, but do it on a Japanese website. If you want to use DU, do it in English.

[AsahinaKimi]

47. I am JAPANESE

American and yes ROMAJI is JAPANESE. I have also been here longer than you, so don't freaking tell me what to do, alright?

[psychopomp]

58. Well I'm very happy for you

That doesn't mean that posting in romaji is "Japanese" nor does it make posting Japanese spelled out in romaji on an English website make any more sense.

By the way, been where? Are you in SF? Well, I'm not. Are you talking about DU? Then, no, you haven't been here longer.

Alright?

[AsahinaKimi]

59. You know what?

I am done with you. Have a great day.

[CreekDog]

102. we get it.

[Number23]

129. You GO girl!!

[CreekDog]

50. take it elsewhere

there is no official language in America. deal with it.

as for the jurors, they failed.

[NCTraveler]

112. And since there is no official language...

I think the site would benefit greatly if you, and you alone, started posting in Japanese. Thank you.

[CreekDog]

113. i'd have to learn it first, but thank you for the suggestion

[arely staircase]

114. actually english is the official language of DU

Pretty sure there is a rule about using English.

[CreekDog]

115. no there isn't

and you must be confused:

1) first you say it's the official language
2) the next sentence, you say "pretty sure".

it is not, you aren't sure and you're wrong.

[arely staircase]

116. used to be, I think

Maybe they changed it. Maybe you are wrong. Oh well.

[CreekDog]

117. so you said first, that there is a rule

next you said "pretty sure"

next you said "maybe"

then you said "there used to be"

then you said "maybe" I am wrong.

when I say you're confused, there is no need for "maybe".

[arely staircase]

118. who knows? nt

[treestar]

63. FFS

No, that is not where anyone is coming from. We saw a post that most of us don't understand. It was meaningless to read for me at least. Did you expect us to take it to google translate? Learn Japanese? Why didn't you put a translation? Please stop trying to be a victim here.

[AsahinaKimi]

83. First of all I didn't post it, I translated it.

Second this is the most Xenophobic post I have ever read on DU.

[treestar]

89. I still don't think it's xenophobic for the board to be English.

Or at least to expect the person posting in the foreign language to be the one to translate.

[CreekDog]

91. that is not a rule, stop making crap up

if you can't handle other languages being spoken around you, then the USA must not really be for you.

[treestar]

99. I can very well

I think it's rude to post on an English board on the internet though, without providing the translation.

I like languages, and try to learn others. But it's not xenophobic to say this board is English. That's over judgmental and looking to be a victim.

I wouldn't have a problem if that person gave the translation. And the xenophobic accusations are annoying, because they are not true. It's not xenophobic to have a board in English. How chaotic to have a board that can have threads in any language.

It is like that at Goodreads - there are reviews in other languages occasionally. But that isn't a discussion, more like FB walls. The way DU is, it is not practical. Makes no sense that person did that as only a few other DUers could even be expected to understand the post.

[CreekDog]

100. You mistreated TWO Japanese American posters here, are you proud of yourself?

One for posting in Japanese, one for posting in English (to help you!).

you treated both like crap. you treated the one who actually translated the Japanese into English worse!

just stop posting on this. quit thinking you're right. you're wrong. you blew it.

[treestar]

145. Oh you victims

you love it, don't you? You poor, poor, victims. How horrible for you to be such victims of xenophobes. People should go out of their way to understand foreign language postings on an English board! Even if they say sorry, they should never be forgiven, else wise you could not claim eternal victimhood.!!!!!~

Poor, poor you!~! You are so put upon by others!!!!! We are always oppressing and victimizing you and it's not fair! You should never have to deal with adversity!

Poor You. Poor Poor you! It's terrible what you have to put up with!

Imagine someone thinking it's rude to post in other than English on DU! You are so victimized by that.

I cannot believe you are so victimized. It's so terrible.

I cannot believe how sorry I am. I feel so bad for making you such a victim. Of course post away in other languages. We should just learn those languages rather than victimizing you! I am sir sorry. Please post an OP in another language other than English so I can prove I am so sorry. I will use Google translate. It may misfire and give you another chance to be a VICTIM of my HORRIBLE XENOPHBOIA!!!!

[Shankapotomus]

159. There are better ways this could have been handled

Instead of outright prohibiting members of a Democratic/Liberal board from expressing and exercising their culture, a mutually acceptable deal might have been suggested.

A message board is capable of an infinite variety of forums each with their own specific set of rules.

There's no reason why it could not be suggested that some forums be created as or designated "multi-language friendly" and other forums, for some democrats who seem to have difficulties with direct exposure to other cultures in their raw form, be designated "English language only." That way each type of DU user would know what to expect going into a particular forum. And, more importantly, both preferences would be accommodated, instead of just one, right?

But the idea of prohibiting the expression of culture on a Democratic board, when many people identify strongly with both their culture and the Democratic Party for being basically the only political group today willing to recognize and stand up for different cultures, to me, makes absolutely no sense on a Democratic Message Board.

Yes, you may object to the use of multiple languages but asking everyone else to conform to your own personal objections, I think, is asking more than is necessary to resolve this issue.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

141. The fact that it bothers you says a lot.....

Take your xenophobia elsewhere.

[treestar]

146. Post an OP in another language

then if you are so sure it is xenophobia to ask that DU be in English.

Why is not one doing that/

[Jesus Malverde]

107. Actually how could one enforce the TOS if we were posting in any language.

What she said could well be a slam on another DUer a homophobic or racist post, etc. Only by having a common reference for juries to consider a post can we enforce TOS.

[CreekDog]

109. we don't enforce the TOS

FAIL.

[Jesus Malverde]

110. sure...

[CreekDog]

111. No, juries do not enforce the TOS

get it right.

[AsahinaKimi]

121. Doesn't it always seem like when someone types in another langauge

Someone is afraid they are talking about them...or THAT ITS A NEGATIVE sentence. IF you posT in spanish, THATS FINE ISN'T IT? IF SOMEONE posts in GERMAN, OR ITALIAN, OR GREEK, OR LATIN, THATS FINE.. but DON'T FUCKING post in ANY asian langague...how the hell it that EVEN FAIR...EXPLAIN IT TO ME.

[Jesus Malverde]

125. My only problem with it is google doesn't translate romanji

It probably would have been better to use hiragana, furagana or kanji. At least google could translate that.

I think you exaggerate the use of foreign languages. The one time someone replied to me in Spanish it was actually an insult, go figure.

Greetings from Fukuoka Kimi-San, The rainy season just started.

[AsahinaKimi]

126. OR maybe some one could have ASKED her what she said... instead of letting it go to a JURY

that happens to be Xenophobic. I CAN'T WAIT till the next person types in Dutch or Afrikaner and wait for THE JURY RESULTS.

[Jesus Malverde]

127. Chotto dramaticu

Bit dramatic

[AsahinaKimi]

128. mochiron

Absolutely.

[treestar]

147. BS

This board is English. If we see a post in another language, we have no idea what it says.

Try posting an OP in Japanese then. Please, do it. So that you can claim victimization of xenophobia if anyone pushes back. You are presumably fluent in both languages. But you are being persecuted if you post in Japanese right? Then have the courage to post an OP in Japanese.

I have been asking for this for ages yet no one does it. Why not? You can be the victim of xenophobia and won't that be satisfying?

I know three languages other than English and yet it never occurred to me to post in those other languages. I guess that is due to my xenophobia.

[AsahinaKimi]

93. AND YET.;..

If someone makes a phrase in French, or Spanish, that's freaking FINE....JUST dun post none of dat Asian language.

[CreekDog]

101. i wish there was only one xenophobic post on DU, but sadly, there are many.

how's this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024949246 "Tackling Asian Privilege"

[Callmecrazy]

119. Here! Here!

Post in Japanese all you want to Kimi.
Fuck the haters. If they want to read it, let 'em translate it.
And if they can't read it, what the fuck do they care what it says.

[AsahinaKimi]

122. I could but look what happened to Yui's post.

Its no good if its hidden by a stupid jury.

[CreekDog]

86. Hey, knock it off, you aren't even responding to the person who posted it

Xenophobia IS NOT a liberal position. Wtf is the matter with you?

[treestar]

88. Oh, I get it.

Sorry.

[CreekDog]

90. and take the xenophobia elsewhere too

where do you get off telling people what language they need to use?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

142. Most of that posters positions aren't "liberal"

It's nothing new.

[DeSwiss]

56. You're in-charge now?

Show me some ID.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

140. Feel better?

Is your life so shitty that you have to bully people on the internet? Pathetic.

[Capt. Obvious]

35. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Fri May 9, 2014, 05:23 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Yaban'na mikai hito
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=800210

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Innpropriate to post anything in another language without providing a translation.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri May 9, 2014, 05:36 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: My rough translation reads, "There's a potential Donkey Kong kill screen coming up. If you're interested."

You're welcome alerter.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Indeed, why deliberately post in a language hardly anyone will understand, without translating? The poster is certainly fluent in English. I'm not angry about it, unlike the alerter, but don't see any point in it here.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The is an English web site. Out of courtesy to the readers, the poster should stick with English. I think it is inappropriate to post a message here that almost no one understands. It might be a perfectly acceptable post. But, who knows?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[FiveGoodMen]

37. "Innpropriate to post anything in another language without providing a translation." said alerter

Last edited Fri May 9, 2014, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Somewhat impractical, anyway.

On the other hand, that's kind of like "You're in 'Murika now, buddy; speak English!"

[treestar]

64. It is not

That is the weakness of DU, jumping to be the victim. This is nothing like that and you know it. It was jerky to post that and this board is English. Nobody said leave America. They just made the very sensible observation that most DUers would not understand it. It was rude and inconsiderate to do that without translation.

[CreekDog]

103. It is jerky for you to tell her to only post in English

take your xenophobia to a conservative board where it will be welcomed

[treestar]

133. No, it is jerky on an English board to post

something and then demand others translate and call them xenophobes for not understanding it.

I don't go to a Russian board an post English.

And then call them xenophobes because I'm not trying to have a conversation with them, just disrupt their board.

[CreekDog]

135. most here think you are wrong, but thanks for playing

You have almost no support for your position here, it's not an English only board. And most don't want it to be.

[treestar]

148. LOL

Are you kidding ? Did you notice there are no OPs started in another language? And why DON'T YOU PEOPLE START ONE? Why are your afraid to do that?

[Ash_F]

137. Clearly the intent was to disrupt the board.

No alternative but to lock the Japanese speaker out of the thread.


But hey when all you have is a hammer...

[treestar]

149. So let them start a whole OP in Japanese

and see how that shakes out.

Not like the internets don't have every possible language out there.

I could post in Spanish, maybe I should go to a Spanish board post in English and then cry xenophobia if anyone pushes back.

[Ash_F]

151. If they want.

I'm not going to vote to hide it.

[treestar]

152. Why does no one do it?

I've challenged them to do that many times now.

[Ohio Joe]

131. Bullshit

Show me where it says 'English Only'.

[treestar]

134. Look at the board and read it

Do you see that it's 99.999999% English?

And where it's not, people are playing around with something and it does not go on long?

Have at it. Post an OP in another language and have that post be just among people who know that language. If the rest of us don't understand it, too bad, trash thread. If that is the position you are going to take then do it. I see nobody is taking me up on that. Likely because they know most of DU is not going to take that well.

Putting an untranslated sentence in Japanese in the middle of a thread in English makes no sense. But go have a whole thread in Japanese and see how it works out.

[CreekDog]

136. I posted today in Spanish, it was not hidden

And there are many more examples of non English posts unhidden, in fact almost none get hidden. The mostly xenophobic jury is not representative of what's been allowed here over the years.

[Ash_F]

138. Welcome to the new DU.

...and also the new Democratic party?

[CreekDog]

139. Thank Skinner

He doesnt weigh in often but he did in this case. Won't get it until this place becomes even more white and even less diverse. Rinse, repeat, etc.

[Skip Intro]

153. Too many Whites on DU for you?

Gee, that seems kinda racist to me.

[CreekDog]

154. It's not racism to think that DU should not be getting less diverse in a party that's getting more

And it's not racist to say that if this place gets whiter because minorities don't feel welcome.

As for you, the only kind of racism you complain about is what you perceive to be racism against white people.

The day you mention racism against black people in particular, but against any minority will be an amazing day.

[Skip Intro]

156. How is DU unwelcoming of minorities?

maybe post a link or something...

And saying the place has too many Whites can only be racist, but you're probably too blinded by your own hypocrisy to see that. Of course, you must realize that you have the power to make the place less White, at least by one.

[treestar]

150. Link?

[CreekDog]

155. No I won't give you a link

for what purpose? so you can post your "English only" nonsense in there?

find it yourself. i'm not helping you.

you want to make minorities feel unwelcome here? don't EVER ask me for anything ever again.

[treestar]

157. FFS

Why can't you admit English is the DU common language? Why should any minority feel unwelcome?

As I've said, I'm not going to go to a Spanish board and post in English. Because it's useless. I would not consider them "unwelcoming" for wanting me to post in Spanish.

You've taken up a dumb issue to battle on here.

[CreekDog]

158. You think there are no English phrases or words on a Spanish language site?

with that kind of thinking, or lack of thinking, i don't think you should be relied upon for thinking of any rules on any website.

you're just not that swift.

[AsahinaKimi]

40. Translation in English

Yaban'na mikai hito = Savage Barbarians

Karera wa, kore made wa sapōto o ukeru niataisuru n = They should never get any support.

[DeSwiss]

57. TY

- Ignore the xenophobes. Every family has them.....

[AsahinaKimi]

60. Its hard to...

Its amazing we have them on DU of all places.

[Skittles]

92. you want I should kick some xenophobic ass, AsahinaKimi?

LEMME AT THEM!!!

[AsahinaKimi]

95. My dear Skittles...

IN the next day or so, you will see a post on Xenophobic behavior on DU. Maybe someone will have a good reason why you can post in Spanish, German, French, and Even Latin, but USE AN ASIAN language and its world FREAKING WAR III.

[Skittles]

96. not sure

hey, I refuse to use the "American names" when calling virtual coworkers overseas - if needed (very much with Asian names) I Google their real names for pronunciation and give it my best shot

[treestar]

65. Why the hell did you not add that to the first post?

Why did you put in in Japanese in the first place? Was it an accident - maybe you are posting on two sites and multitasking?

[AsahinaKimi]

84. Do you have a reading problem??

The post was written by Yui Yoshida. Back off!!! I translated it, I didn't write it.

[treestar]

87. Oh, sorry !!

My bad.

[treestar]

73. Savage Wenyeji kamwe kupata msaada wowote. Kweli sana. eom

[AsahinaKimi]

85. UNLIKE OTHERS on this THREAD...

I WILL NOT REPORT your message. I am not Xenophobic LIKE some on DU.

[freshwest]

98. AsahinaKimi. thanks for the translation! Google completely messed up:

Last edited Tue May 27, 2014, 01:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Yaban'na mikai hito.

Google said:

'Swahili detected.'

Which startled me. I didn't know she spoke Swahili!

Translation:

Yaban'na mikai hito.

Well, big help. And anyone claiming the phrase wasn't Japanese, maybe took their first google too seriously.

The body of the message got this result:

Karera wa, kore made wa sapōto o ukeru niataisuru n

Google said:

'Japanese detected.'

Oh, goody, I thought. Here it comes. But no, it was just as dumb at the other:

Translation:

Pale green time, not made ​​of time sapōto ukeru niataisuru n

EPIC FAIL by google and a few other entities.

Sure, I'd like to see some things translated here. Like everyone is supposed to know the French and Latin quotes English married. We don't but Wikipedia or google gives fast results

Thanks again for telling us what it means, I agree that we don't need to be giving support to a theocracy. We have a First Amendment to give freedom of religion and freedom of speech. That includes the freedom to speak about religion!

What is going on there is against the Constitution and although alliances are often made with those of similar values, this is wrong, like the Inquisition would have been. One would think a search for the ultimate truth that religions claim to have, could withstand some criticism.

An apostle said: 'We should be able to argue our case in the free marketplace of ideas.'

The apostle didn't say that everyone had to or would even believe it. He knew that his was a minority view.

That guy should have been allowed to speak because if you feel your idea is true, no one can shake you off by talking against it. You prove it one way or the other. Shutting him down with such brutality is a sign of weakness from a theocracy.

We don't need a theocracy here to return us to former state of ignorance and misery that either ruined or took too many lives over the years.

[AsahinaKimi]

104. You know all someone had to do was ask her for the meaning..

INSTEAD they jump on it, and report, effectively locking her out of the thread so she can not even respond to a simple question like what does it mean? YOU know, whats messed up with this whole thing? SOMEONE CAN post in French, Spanish, Italian, Latin, German, Irish Gaelic and NO ONE WILL REPORT IT. But god forbid, post something in Japanese and ITS PEARL HARBOR DAY!! WTF...seriously.

[Jesus Malverde]

108. Bit over the top...

I think it would have been better if it was in Kanji, then at least google could translate it. I haven't seen too many posts in the languages you mention...

[Nihil]

45. That wouldn't have been so bad an alert ...

... if the alerter had been proficient in English him/herself!

> ALERTER'S COMMENTS
>
> Innpropriate to post anything in another language without providing a translation.



Unless they meant "another language 'cept Murkin"?

[stone space]

160. I'm not surprised.

Under Misspelled Banner, Buchanan And White Nationalist Brimelow Argue For English-Only Initiatives

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/06/22/46891/misspelled-english-buchanan/

[Starry Messenger]

48. Holy crap.

o.O

That's what happens when racists are allowed to just do their own thing here, I guess.

[LeftyMom]

49. WTF is the matter with those jurors?

Here's the deal: many posts are things most DUers don't understand or aren't interested in. Some of them are regional, some of them are jargon-laden, some of them are just really niche issues of limited interest, and yes, some of them are in languages other than English. The world isn't centered around you and DU isn't providing a carefully curated selection of only things you understand and value. Deal with it.

[Gormy Cuss]

51. Xenophobia is now a community standard too.

Rather than alerting the poster could have asked for a translation. But no, because it was Japanese on a English language site it MUST have been something rude or inappropriate.

[LeftyMom]

52. Or popped open google translate in another browser tab.

[AsahinaKimi]

53. THIS!

Could not have said this much better, (In English or Japanese). Tell me why it is, that German, Yiddish, French, Spanish is ACCEPTABLE BUT Japanese, Vietnamese and Chinese is NOT???

[treestar]

66. NO, they simply did not understand it

Threads have been deleted for being in another language. Really rude, showing off perhaps, to post that and expect US to go to google to translate it! And that is not xenophobia. DU is in English, Expect not to be understood if you use other languages.

[Gormy Cuss]

70. You're in DU now. Speak English!11!!

Do you realize how silly that defense sounds?

[treestar]

72. ¿Te das cuenta de cómo la defensa sonidos tontos?

Вы понимаете, что защита, как глупо звуки?

Je, wewe kutambua jinsi silly kwamba upande wa utetezi sauti?

[Gormy Cuss]

75. You're saying something, but I can't read it.

I could be a child and alert on it, hoping that another xenophobic jury would vote to hide it. Instead I'll assume that what you're saying is not of interest and move on.

[treestar]

76. Why, it should be OK with you.

Double standard going on here? You said it was OK. So no problemo.

[Gormy Cuss]

77. No, I'm being consistent.

It's okay that you wrote a phrase in three languages other than English in one post. Like yuiyoishida's post I don't know what you're trying to say so I just move on to the other posts. I didn't take personal offense that in one isolated response you chose to write something in other languages.

[treestar]

78. good. Alerting on it would have been xenophobic.

Nice to know I can always do that. Si alguien se queja, puedo acusarlos de xenofobia.

[Gormy Cuss]

79. Yep, it would.

Now if I translate what you wrote and it's rude or over-the-top, I'd alert.

[Capt. Obvious]

105. I think I know why the outrage

If they can't read it the poster may be saying something bad about Obama and we won't know!

[treestar]

71. Yo no he visto postos en otras lenguas antes

No es el case que "algunos" pistos son en otras lenguas. Pero usted necesita ir a google para entender esto. No problema, no? Esto es uno de estos postos de DU que es en español. Otra día en DU. Este post es una cosa normal de DU.

[LeftyMom]

80. I speak zero spanish and it took me about 15 seconds to translate your post.

I have no idea why people are so worried about people posting in other languages. The one time I can remember that somebody posted something dickish to somebody in a language other than English it was easy enough to figure out (because Google translate) and the moderators (this was back when there were moderators) dealt with it just as they would have somebody posting something equally awful in English.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

130. That was more like George Bush Jr. Spanish. NT

[Ash_F]

82. DU looking good today!

[PatrickforO]

3. They won't need to worry about prison...

The 1000 lashes will kill him.

Religion: The gift that keeps on giving!

[jmowreader]

11. They don't give them to you all at once

They give you fifty at a time and wait till you recover from the last batch before flogging you again. Because if it killed you that would spoil all their fun.

[tofuandbeer]

4. Now that's a forward moving country. :/

[Behind the Aegis]

5. How disgusting.

OK, who here is also guilty of "disobeying his father"? I'd be long dead!

I hadn't heard about the anti-atheist laws. They would certainly have some fans here.

[red dog 1]

6. K&R...Thanks for posting

What a despicable bunch of leaders Saudi Arabia has.

To throw the guy in jail is one thing, but 1,000 lashes?

[freshwest]

7. Yay, theocracy! Coming to a state near you soon! Thanks, GOP! n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

31. Be careful fresh

The "Let me explain how Islam works and why you should be tolerant of their theocratic bullshit" cop will come and get ya!

I ran into another one here the past few days who stops JUST SHORT of outright trying to convert people to Islam and tries to wrap this shit up in a pretty box with a fluffy bow of 'blind reason'.

But you are right -

Go theocracy!

[freshwest]

39. There is more than one kind of theocracy. May I suggest they consider the term, and not the brand?

The love of theocracy in this nation is pushed by Christian Dominionists. Who are scarcely a friend of Islam. All religions go through phases they want to grow out of as they mature, if they want to survive.

America seems to be most fertile ground for grifter religions on the planet, from Palin to the Phelps to the guy in Florida who makes money off his perennial threats to burn the Koran.

Of the religions that feel they are misunderstood, none can compare to the American obsession of those who have a persistent media pressence that alleges there is a 'War on Christmas.'

The Monty Python video, is also not anti-Catholic, anti-woman, anti-English, anti-Christian, nor is it anti-Spain. Europe has made peace with its own history, AFAIK. I love 'em all, I just don't want to live under such a system.

The video a farce about fearsome things we hope are relegated to history. It's essential to have a good laugh at oneself at times. I know I laugh at myself quite a bit.

But DU doesn't write these stories in the news. They are written by the people doing things that are considered news, or the pundits selling them.

Anybody who thinks that opposing freedom of expression is okay, is not playing by the Bill of Rights enshrined in the US Constitution. It guarantees the right to choose one's religion, or none at all, and that is protected by government and secularism.

By definition, Theocracy denies that human right by using the power of the state to deny the freedom of the mind and one's own conscience. This is essential to fulfill one's purpose in life within the Earthly plane. Thus it is not to the best system.

JMHO...

[Zipgun]

9. And we keep supporting them.

As well as dragging our feet on renewable energy, which also helps support them.

[Hekate]

10. In my entire life, Saudi Arabia has always topped the list of places I never wanted to visit

Just my being female is enough reason. They have never left the Dark Ages.

[loudsue]

19. I know, right? Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran... it goes on & on. Everywhere that

you have oppressive religious beliefs, you're going to have retro-civilization. How anyone can stand to live there I'll never know. Organized religion is superstition, and it sucks. When are people going to get that? Are there some icons worth respecting and whose lives stand for something great? Sure! Gandhi, MLK, FDR, and maybe even Jesus and Mohammed. But to be worshiped as gods?

Those cultures that push or support any type of fundamentalism (part of our culture, as well) are barbaric. It's time for the world to evolve. Way past time.

[treestar]

74. +1

If I went there, it would be morbid curiosity. Like going to see North Korea.

[djean111]

12. And I am reading here at DU that saying Christian prayers at government meetings is just a little

thing.
No it is not. We have started down a slippery slope. Different "god", same attitude.

[Feral Child]

13. You are absolutely right, djean.

Our theocrats burrow deeper every day.

[marshall]

16. It can happen in a secular context too

It is about control, and making people believe or do something that is contrary to their choices. Religion is one area in which it happened, but it also happens in areas of science, politics, education, and other areas. Jonathan Swift lampooned that to great effect in his Big-endians and Little-endians, who argued to the point of war over which end of an egg one should crack open.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. Times 100000

[elias49]

14. I hate savages

wherever they live.
Disgusting.

[Grins]

15. They're not helping themselves...

The world thinks they are barbaric and they keep giving them the proof.

Years ago I was at a conference in DC and the speaker replied to a question with: "You have to understand; It you are east or south of Italy (and not too sure about Italy, either) the world is tribes. They may appear as nations-states, but they are tribes."

I remembered that when Georgie planned his "great adventure" in Iraq and it came real in spades. Doomed to fail.

In 1944 the Secretary of State told Roosevelt that the US was sending about 50,000 barrels of oil to Britain and used the term, "peak oil" for the first time. We're running out. Who had the best and available? The Saudi's. A place filled with tribes and traditions that went back 4,000 years. We went there, paid off tribes, meddled in their politics, and brought the Saudi's 4,000 years forward in 5 years. That's unheard-of culture shock, and it hasn't gone away.

(Wish I could remember the book in which I read that. Around 2004. Author was at the Naval Academy as an instructor at the time, and his book was a best seller....anyone?)

[KittyWampus]

23. Good, thoughtful post. Thanks. Upsetting OP ends up getting some interesting replies.

[The Wizard]

17. Religious fundamentalism

is a scourge on humanity and should be purged from the Earth by any means necessary.
It gives fanatics and lunatics an excuse for untoward behavior toward their fellow man.

[nyabingi]

18. When US politicians start preaching

to Iran, China, North Korea, etc. about respecting human rights, their self-righteousness is always revealed as hypocrisy since we support countries like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, etc.

Again, it's all about the compliance and obedience of foreign rulers, and the pursuit of expanding profit.

[valerief]

20. America's future is this, since our highest court has deemed that only money is speech. nt

[polynomial]

21. History about Arabia

is sort of elusive for a long time in the media. I was not privy to a lot of the inside doings until about the second term of Bush that I began to question the whole concept of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Especially after reading two books one by Gerald Posner called “Secrets of the Kingdom” and the other by Russ Baker called “Family Secrets”.

Those two books shocked me into the understanding that Bush, George Herbert Walker Bush was tightly connected to big money and financiers in the banking and Union Pacific railroad business. Russ Baker illustrates a spectacular story that the media just ignores. It amazes me how in the world that can happen.

Posner illustrates how the Bush family has been business partners with the Bin Laden family for decades. It was such a shock to know a huge conflict of interest in that many could sense the feeling these politicians should have never been elected.

Still the American media hides huge histories and background in the Bush family connections that span decades going way back relating Grandpa Prescott Bush as financier of the Nazi party. It seems fitting that George now continue the fascist assertion with intimate dealings as business partners with the Bin Laden family.

What’s worse the media hyping the wars during Bush years, especially Iraq making a commitment to create a Democracy with elections and the media hyped purple finger.

I reflect back on it now to be so ridiculous to try to convert a millenniums of time that base their constitution on religious order.

Iraq has a basic constitution based on the Koran, and no other believe or get severely punished, this flogging as a good example of government by terrorism. Where our Democratic constitution is based on freedom of believe, and being able to submit grievances to the government, free speech, free press. Basic human rights.


America is totally out of sync with these people. No wonder why many more Americans are believing 911 was an inside job.

[KittyWampus]

22. Thanks for the reminder. Especially about Bush family.

[L0oniX]

25. What do you expect from the country that attacked us on 911?

DUH! They are barbaric.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. Ladies and gentlemen:

Our "allies".

[KansDem]

27. Aren't these our allies?

Last edited Fri May 9, 2014, 11:04 AM - Edit history (1)

When they're not flying airliners into our tallest buildings...

[christx30]

28. We may think they are terrible,

but we need to respect their laws. If he doesn't like the laws of the land, he needs to work within the system to get them changed. He knew there would be consequences for breaking the law, and now he has to live with them.

I don't actually believe the above. Putting out every tired cliche I read here all the time. Just pointing out that sometimes, the law is wrong, and the system is screwed up and stacked against people trying to make a difference that breaking the law is the only way of changing things. I hope this guy finds a way to escape and run to a country that will protect him.

[leftynyc]

29. Uh - no

I'm under absolutely no obligation to respect their laws. In fact, I am under the obligation of simply being a human being to call them the barbaric animals they are.

[christx30]

30. Sorry.

I forgot the sarcasm tag. My point is that many laws in every country are repugnant and should be repealed. I was using an extreme example of a bad law to illustrate my point. There are some terrible laws in this country to. The ones giving the NSA the right to spy on innocent people. Laws against medical marijuana. Many people say "if you don't like the law, try to get it changed. But you don't have the right to violate the law", not even caring how damned near impossible it is to get any government agency to relinquish power. If the government is wrong, violating the law is sometimes the only way of fixing it.

[leftynyc]

33. My apologies

Sarcasm doesn't really translate online. I definitely see your point about bad laws everywhere but at least here we do have some recourse. Appeals to higher courts, for instance. I seriously don't think you can put laws against medical marijuana in the same category as what is happening to the man in this OP. Bad laws are one thing. Thinking proper justice calls for 1000 lashes is barbaric.

[treestar]

68. Here you can do that without any lashes

And you should expect the consequences to occur and make your stand in court and in the press.

[FiveGoodMen]

38. Thanks for the second paragraph. I was about to get all irony-impaired at the start!

[treestar]

67. there is a difference between our system and theirs

Ours deserves a bit more respect. We don't get jailed for things we say.

[Ash_F]

97. Our system is fine.

The scumbags who inhabit our system, however...

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

34. Saudia Arabia: Our Partners In Peace

[nilesobek]

46. Seems to me there is a sick element

of sadism in the sentence. 1000 lashes? With the fast growth of solar and wind energy hopefully our government will soon not need the company of the Saudis.

[miyazaki]

54. Seems a miracle to even survive a 1000 lashes,

but maybe that's the point. Devilish bastards probably improvise
such a whip to deliver just enough physical damage near the threshold
of human death. If this is a workout for the one dealing the blows, try to
imagine what the victim is going through. As to the insensitive prick
earlier in the thread, here's some more romaji for you, sayonara.

[Kaleva]

132. The Saudis spread it out over a long period

The norm is about 50 lashes a week for a man and 20-30 for a woman. The prisoner is checked out by a doctor before any lashing to see if he or she is medically fit enough to survive a lashing.

[DeSwiss]

55. A natural progression.....

- A kissin' and a bowin' and a beatin'. It'll all end when the oil does.......

K&R
[center]
[/center]

[treestar]

61. This is a good article to show the next American right winger

who claims that Christians are persecuted in the US.

[yurbud]

69. Will we here our government make as much noise about this as they would if this were Iran or Russia

or Venezuela?

[Ash_F]

81. That's our ally! /nt

[ozone_man]

94. Time for regime change.

Let's bring them some democracy. Like that will happen soon, and that they are arming and sending in Jihadi fighters into Syria makes one wonder if the U.S. Is really interested in establishing a democracy there, or has other motives. A bit like how the Iraq war was about oil, and not at all about WMDs.

[geek tragedy]

106. Barbarians. nt

[skypilot]

120. Wow. I read through the first half of...

...this thread and then realized I'd forgotten what the OP what about.

[KamaAina]

123. Nice to have such staunch allies in the region.

[ozone_man]

124. They are arming and funding Al Queda to fight our our proxy war with Syria, a secular country.

I think our priorities are all wrong. Obama should call for SA regime change. Now that would be real change I can believe in. I think he has two more years to enact change we can believe in. Still waiting...

[ForgoTheConsequence]

143. Funny how xenophobia and conservative democrats go hand in hand.

Pay attention to any thread on Latin America.


Now that they've turned to bullying non white European du posters I think things need to be reevaluated.

[devils chaplain]

144. Access to petroleum makes any government acceptable. N/T