County clerks discuss headaches of marriage order

[moriah]

Source: Arkansas Times

County clerks and attorneys had their conference call with Association of Arkansas Counties officials this afternoon about complying with Circuit Judge Chris Piazza's ruling overturning the state Constitution and 1997 statutory ban on same-sex marriage. They're hoping for further court guidance and, ideally, a stay of Piazza's ruling. Otherwise, confusion and unhappy customers seem likely to be the order in Arkansas when business resumes Monday morning.

Jason Owens, who represented several counties in the lawsuit, said he expected a request for a stay would be filed Monday along with an immediate notice of an appeal of the order. He also said he'd ask Judge Piazza for clarification of his ruling.

Owens said Piazza's order failed to address a number of other statutes that refer to marriage, including a "definitional" statute that defines it as between a man and woman. Owens said he knew the judge intended to eliminate that requirement, but complications remain as long as the other statutes remain on the books. They include man-woman requirements in statutes dealing with covenant marriage and under-age marriages. And Owens noted the judge hadn't ordered the counties to do anything, though injunctive guidance had been sought.

A large issue is the fact that most counties prepare marriage licenses with software that provides blanks for a bride and ga room and print certificates that have a Mr. and Mrs. on the form.

Read more: http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2014/05/10/county-clerks-discuss-headaches-of-marriage-order-most-seem-likely-to-resist-issuing-licenses-monday

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The comments from the Benton County attorney made me sad. But at least Pulaski County, the county of our capital city, will be issuing gender-neutral licenses on Monday.

[Downwinder]

1. How much trouble is it to change the text on a computer form?

OK, OK, they couldn't manually change the date on their computers for Y2K. it will probably cost a couple hundred thousand to change marriage certificates.

[moriah]

3. If Pulaski County could do it in a weekend, so could others.

They just don't want to.

Sad all around.

[Downwinder]

4. Ought to send out a call for hackers to help them out.

[shenmue]

2. Dang words

[eggplant]

5. I suspect that nobody would mind using the old form in the meantime

Just cross out the Mr. or Mrs. or bride or groom and write in the proper term. They can go back and fix the software and databases later.

In 50 years, the licenses be collector's items.

[davidpdx]

8. True, some might feel that way

Others will want the correct license not only for legal purposes, but one could argue because of the fact that it is their right.

[davidpdx]

7. The real problem is the rulings come down so fast that no time is given to make the changes

I suppose some couples would be offended if they had to fill out forms that still had Mrs. and Mr. or bride/groom, but some wouldn't. I'm sure there is more to it than just that though. If the county clerk tried to change something ahead of time, the Tea Party crazies would bust in and try to take the place over. County clerks have to tread carefully not to be partisan toward either side in their official capacity.

[Downwinder]

9. Carroll County did not seem to be having any difficulty.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014801398

[bpollen]

10. I gotsta quibble on one point...

"I suppose some couples would be offended if they had to fill out forms that still had Mrs. and Mr. or bride/groom, but some wouldn't."

I think there would be few same-sex couples who would say nope, not gettin' married until they fix the form. I've been fighting with the USN for over 30 years about what my SSN is, and each successive interaction requires that I prove again that they have the wrong number. All due to one clerk making a mistake in June of 1972. If at all possible, don't hold your breath while waiting for bureaucracy to fix things.

[joshcryer]

11. Nah, you just know some bigot brought out the books.

The rules, the laws, they probably brainstormed every which way.

These County Clerks probably haven't even been following the laws since they got the job, 10-20 years ago, they just know what they don't want to do.

The definitional stuff will be cleared up Monday. They just want to get the injunction. It'll be interesting to hear them argue that the definition was legal when these people got their licenses despite that the statutes which the definition referred to was not.