EXCLUSIVE: Ordinary Web users far outnumber foreign targets in conversations intercepted by the NSA

[DonViejo]

Source: Washington Post

A huge cache of agency-captured messages provided by Edward Snowden illustrates the extent that untargeted individuals get caught in the net of surveillance – and shows the former NSA contractor had access to FISA content.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html

[ForgoTheConsequence]

1. Doesn't matter.

Because boxes in Snowden's garage and stuff.

[marmar]

2. Quelle surprise!

k/r

[bluestateguy]

3. This is what I think

Let's say government develops a new investigatory tool or surveillance tool to combat some problem. Next, there will be a lot of pressure, maybe from politicians, maybe from some elements of the public, or just from the bureaucracy itself to expand the use of that technology into a weapon that can be used to combat every crime, every social ill and every threat.

So now tools that we were told were for fighting terrorism are inevitably used to combat tax evaders, child pornographers, drug dealers and illegal music downloaders.

[RKP5637]

4. Yep! Weapons against citizens ... can also be used against those not in agreement with TPTB. It's

a chilling new world. In fact, some would say a chilling NWO. And what about VPN? Millions upon millions use VPN. VPN has been in use for corps. for a couple of decades. So, apparently anyone now who does not want to spew their information in airports, hot spots, neighbors, etc. are somehow suspect potential terrorists. This is all so fucked up it sounds like a SNL skit. In fact, it sounds like incompetence.

Gee, they must have a treasure trove on DU investigating people whole like to think and not be sheep.

[MrMickeysMom]

6. Nothing incompetent about THIS.. for sure

I'm sure we are about to learn more and more about why our freedom is indirectly proportional to "war on terror".

Yeah, happy independence day, ah-hmmm..

[RKP5637]

8. I meant incompetence in using the shotgun approach, kinda like a fishing net that gets

everything but the intended catch. It's amazing, seems like just about all Americans are suspect. Also, it would seem anyone intent would not be using the internet for blasting out covert information.

[OnyxCollie]

15. Ur Doing It Wrong.

If it seems stupid to you, perhaps it's because you misunderstand its use.

What if it's not used to fight crime and catch terrorists (which, from the amount of info it collects, would make it more difficult. That's not rational.), but instead has a less altruistic purpose: what if it's being used to monitor and influence citizens' belief systems in order to serve rational self-interests of survival and utility maximization, i.e. to win elections and propagandize the population to overcome restraints and achieve objective monetary incentives?

[RKP5637]

16. Yes, definitely, as in my post #4. That is a clear danger and it will happen and be exploited if not

already ... just thinking of what J. Edgar Hoover did. Imagine, it he had had these tools. Thanks for your reply, you went into further detail than I had and I certainly agree with you 1000%. I don't know where all of this is going to end, but I don't think it will be good.

[OnyxCollie]

17. Great minds think alike.

[RKP5637]

21. Yep!

[MrMickeysMom]

27. That might be true...

But, I'm a great deal more distrusting of the intention of such fearless leaders. It's more about control of the masses, IMO. It's absolutely going to have the opposite effect.

[RKP5637]

39. Yes, IMO too, that is pretty much the bottomline, control of the masses. n/t

[24601]

41. The incompetence is on the part of the legitimate targets. Bad people should communicate only with

other bad people and should always limit their conversations to terrorism and other crimes. Then there would be no incidental collection and government analysts will be freed up from he task of minimizing the days to remove US identities.

Will you take it for action to ensure the bad dudes never call, email or discuss the innocent? If they are planning to attack a US person or facility - ask them to describe it as US person number 1 - or US Airline #1 and just provide date, time & location. That should really help the analytical challenge. Looking for a needle will be much easier if the needles are still there, but the haystacks are reduced in number and size.

Thank you for your cooperation and interest....

[George II]

9. The next thing you know....

....the government will actually put people in jail for breaking the law!! Dastardly!!!

[neverforget]

13. nothing to say about the article? the NSA collecting

AND storing information that is obsolete from Americans?

[reddread]

14. or employ and deploy foreign nationals to sidestep it.

whats a little rendition between friends?
some domestic diplomacy once removed?
a little song, a little dance...

[defacto7]

30. yes, just like they put thousands

in prison for not breaking the law....

only expanded!

Human rights are so last century.

[Hissyspit]

40. Weak.

[George II]

42. Did you read what I responded to?

[LiberalLovinLug]

44. Of course he did

You basically said "if you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to fear"

So what happens if one day the thing you thought was ok is now looked upon as suspicious, and you too are targeted? Perhaps participating on a "liberal" website, for example. Only at that time it is now looked upon as "normal" for the feds to scan through meta-data on a fishing trip to look for prey to fill their quotas or earn promotions, because of apologists like you in the present that schluffed it off?

And then no doubt someone like you would still be writing on message boards about not complaining about the fed cops just doing their jobs...... no matter how they collect their evidence.

[George II]

45. No that's not what I said.

[ZombieHorde]

47. I also had that wrong interpretation of your post. nt

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

37. This has been happening for years.

One of the provisions of the laughably-called "PATRIOT Act" was that the FBI can issue "National Security Letters", allowing it to do searches without warrants, merely on its own say-so. Do you know which FBI field office has issued the most NSLs? It was that hotbed of international terrorism, Las Vegas. The NSLs were used in investigations of financial misconduct in casinos. I am all in favor of investigating skimming and money laundering at casinos, but don't try to pretend that it has anything to do with national security.

[MrMickeysMom]

5. Oops… sorry

I duped this in GD…. I'll delete.

P.S. My comment… So…. THIS is what the war on a WORD is all about, eh?

[YOHABLO]

7. So now the fascists will have all the info they need for arrests when ''the time comes''!

Much like The Nazi's IBM punch cards in rounding up the Jews and other undesirables.

[George II]

10. Yeah, much like that...........

[RKP5637]

11. It is exactly that! And what is so stupid are the damn fools that say, "well, I have nothing to

to hide!" They can't get it through their thick heads it's all relative to whom is using the information. It is just such an utterly stupid lame naive remark for one to say, "well, I have nothing to to hide!"

As one often says, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

[christx30]

20. I have nothing to hide, says the ignorant person.

"Well, you may not have commited a crime. But it says here that you cheated on your wife 2 years ago. Does she know that? And you used a racist term in an email 6 months ago to describe your boss when he chose Franklin for the promotion instead of you. Does he know you said that? Might be rough if he found out. You might just want to plead guilty to whatever and do your time."

[RKP5637]

23. Yep! n/t

[christx30]

28. Or start the conversation with:

"Congressman" or "Senator", and who knows what can be done with the NSA's can-do, go-get-em attitude?

[reddread]

33. lets dedicate this one to the freedom fighters in the NSA

[AngryAmish]

38. Or have a nice little sit down with a newly elected President

To let them know that you are protecting them from having all that bad stuff come out.

Next sit down then we will talk about the budget.

[christx30]

12. So if the NSA is spying on the American people,

and their job is to spy on enemies of the United States, does that mean that the American people are enemies of the US?

And can anyone that shares their secrets with the world be a traitor? If we are the enemy in a war that was started against us with no provocation, isn't anything we do justified self defense?

[Pholus]

19. That would seem to be a decent conclusion, sadly...

And yes, anything that keeps the money rolling to fund the companies supporting these activities would be acceptable.

[OKNancy]

18. I think this part is actually the juicy stuff

I sure would like to know more about this:

Among the most valuable contents — which The Post will not describe in detail, to avoid interfering with ongoing operations — are fresh revelations about a secret overseas nuclear project, double-dealing by an ostensible ally, a military calamity that befell an unfriendly power, and the identities of aggressive intruders into U.S. computer networks.

[valerief]

22. Breaking! Ice is cold! nt

[L0oniX]

24. I'll never trust the NSA and our government.

[RKP5637]

26. There's an increasing lack of credibility for me. There is just way too much

crap that goes on anymore. It's more and more us and them, and then the militarization of local police. It's really a WTF.

[cantbeserious]

25. Thank You For Sharing

eom

[Uncle Joe]

29. And there's more.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html

If Snowden’s sample is representative, the population under scrutiny in the PRISM and Upstream programs is far larger than the government has suggested. In a June 26 “transparency report,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence disclosed that 89,138 people were targets of last year’s collection under FISA Section 702. At the 9-to-1 ratio of incidental collection in Snowden’s sample, the office’s figure would correspond to nearly 900,000 accounts, targeted or not, under surveillance.

(snip)

In the interview, Snowden said he did not need to circumvent those controls, because his final position as a contractor for Booz Allen at the NSA’s Hawaii operations center gave him “unusually broad, unescorted access to raw SIGINT [signals intelligence] under a special ‘Dual Authorities’ role,” a reference to Section 702 for domestic collection and Executive Order 12333 for collection overseas. Those credentials, he said, allowed him to search stored content — and “task” new collection — without prior approval of his search terms.


“If I had wanted to pull a copy of a judge’s or a senator’s e-mail, all I had to do was enter that selector into XKEYSCORE,” one of the NSA’s main query systems, he said.

(snip)

In an ordinary FISA surveillance application, the judge grants a warrant and requires a fresh review of probable cause — and the content of collected surveillance — every 90 days. When renewal fails, NSA and allied analysts sometimes switch to the more lenient standards of PRISM and Upstream.

Thanks for the thread, DonViejo

[Luminous Animal]

31. And now we know that Snowden was telling the truth all the time. As he has said...

if he knew the the President's personal email address, he could have accessed the contents. He had the keys.

[Uncle Joe]

32. Precisely, Luminous Animal. n/t

[JDPriestly]

36. Here you go.

More than 1,000 distinct “minimization” terms appear in the files, attempting to mask the identities of “possible,” “potential” and “probable” U.S. persons, along with the names of U.S. beverage companies, universities, fast-food chains and Web-mail hosts.

Some of them border on the absurd, using titles that could apply to only one man. A “minimized U.S. president-elect” begins to appear in the files in early 2009, and references to the current “minimized U.S. president” appear 1,227 times in the following four years.

Even so, unmasked identities remain in the NSA’s files, and the agency’s policy is to hold on to “incidentally” collected U.S. content, even if it does not appear to contain foreign intelligence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html

[blkmusclmachine]

34. 1984

"Thanks, 9/11"

[JoeyT]

35. Time for another shifting of the goalposts.

It's worth pointing out the original talking point for the defenders of the NSA was that they weren't spying on Americans at all. They were investigating specific targets they had enough suspicion about to get a warrant for.

The goalposts have long since rocketed out of our solar system and are floating around in deep space, never to be seen again.

[MrMickeysMom]

43. Yes, JoeyT… and they're counting on short attention spans...

Uh… what were we talking about?…. "Hey, honey! Is American Gladiators on tonight?"….

[snot]

46. 900,000 accounts? Heck,

they accessed past emails and other info from 410,000 accounts at one small company alone – one of few that actually tried briefly to resist – and would have monitored those accounts going forward, if the company hadn't folded in order to avoid becoming complicit: see http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/20/why-did-lavabit-shut-down-snowden-email .

[Blue_Tires]

48. At least now I know the REAL reason why Greenwald suddenly put his "Grand Finale" story

on the backburner at the 11th hour after hyping it up for months...And it had nothing to do with any bullshit cop-outs like "last minute USG revelations" or "double-checking source accuracy"

[WestCoastLib]

49. Anything you send over the internet is not private

I am very liberal, but I can't get too worked up over this for one reason. The internet is not a private system.

As someone who works for a technology company that takes confidentiality and security very seriously, we are trained often on how to transmit data as securely as possible and the company's bottom line depends on the ability to keep our data private.

The bottom line is any email, private message, tweet, message board post, etc. that you send over the internet is not private and it's not just "the government" that is monitoring what you do and can intercept it. An email sent to someone will go through a handful of hops before arriving at it's destination and even with encryption can be accessed at any of those points. There are people that can, will and do monitor your net activity via your IP address all the time. These people range from kids playing around to hackers in Thailand to foreign and domestic governments. With little effort and a little technical aptitude you too could learn how to do this from a simple google search if you wanted to.

The assumption that anything you are doing online is private is born out of a lack of understanding the technology. You may feel anonymous behind your keyboard, but assume that everything you are doing is out in the open, because that's closer to the reality.