Israel Naval Ship 'Bombs Palestinian Children on Gaza Beach,' Killing Four

[Comrade Grumpy]

Source: The Telegraph (UK)

Four children were killed in Gaza City on Wednesday, medics said, in Israeli shelling witnessed by The Telegraph and other foreign journalists.

The four were among a group on the beach when the attack took place, emergency services spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra said, with some of the surviving injured children taking refuge at a nearby hotel where journalists were staying.

Journalists heard two loud explosions outside the Gaza City hotel, before children were pulled into the restaurant area for treatment.

A journalist who saw the incident said some of the children who survived were running away when another shell seemed to be aimed at them.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10971306/Israeli-naval-ship-bombs-Palestinian-children-on-Gaza-beach-killing-four.html

---

The IDF once again proves it is very effective at killing Palestinian civilians.

The reports are that about 70% of the dead are civilians, including dozens of children.

Your tax dollars at work.

[Ash_F]

1. Probably the other 30% are simply adult males

Not necessarily combatants, some maybe, but for some reason people like to automatically assume they all are.

[Orrex]

2. I've been told again and again that Israel is exercising admirable restraint

I'm sure that the dead children will rest in peace thanks the the great restraint exercised in killing them.

[ballyhoo]

3. Hard to answer without violating

rules here. I think Israel may go too far this time and help may come from an unexpected source--not the US. Of course, this may just be a hope.

[hack89]

5. The world has ignored the slaughter in Syria for years

why do you think this is the incident that will finally mobilize the world? Just curious.

[Ash_F]

8. Syria has been extensively sanctioned

I don't know if you are talking about that or a war, but I think sanctions would be enough to motivate change in Israel's case. They already have some moderate support to do so from within and strong support from liberal Jews internationally.

[ballyhoo]

10. For some reason, not clear even to me, I

believe the Pals have many more followers than other assaulted peoples. I have watched the demonstrations all over France and now England, and other less populous countries. I don't see this for the Syrians. We should know soon. But I believe we have different positions on Israel so we probably can't discuss it without biases.

[Ash_F]

15. Syria has been admonished and sanctioned by the US and EU.

That is not nothing, unless anything short of war is nothing to you. Nobody is asking for a war with Israel on this site. I don't think many are even asking for sanctions. Just something less than unconditional support for human rights violations.

[ballyhoo]

17. Yes, sir. Death of little children is much more important

to me than sanctions. Okay? Thank you for your time.

[Ash_F]

26. So you want a war with both Israel and Syria?

Or Syria and not Israel? If the latter, than your previous argument of equivalence makes no sense.

There is no equivalence anyway. Syria has been much more violent because much more people are fighting on both sides. Military involvement is a bad idea anyway because going to war on behalf of one side will not stop either side from fighting(Syria). It would just amplify the bloodshed until there is an eventual victor.

Or was your comment just unthought-out rhetoric?

Probably the last one.

[ballyhoo]

31. My comment was well thought out deep beliefs. I

don't follow your "argument of equivalence" now or in your previous post. My thoughts are mine. You are welcome to yours. I'll suppress any token insults.

[Ash_F]

34. I think you would be surprised at the effects international pressure can have on Israeli policy.

Real pressure has not been applied yet.

It seemed to me that you were trying to equate the situation in Syria with that of Israel. But they are very different.

[ballyhoo]

40. Not at all. I have purposely stayed away from

the situation in Syria for various reasons, one of which was the US's supplying of weapons to rebel groups there that we are fighting elsewhere. Makes all seem unusual to me. I don't think international pressure will have a lasting effect on Israel--or maybe an immediate one. But I cannot fault you for your reasoning. It depends how much you have studied various countries.

[William769]

4. I wonder how many Israeli children have died from rocket's being lobbed at them? nt

[hack89]

6. Give Hamas what they want and you will get your wish of a more "fair" fight. nt

[azurnoir]

11. according to B'tselem since 9/2000-5/31/14

127 Israeli minors have died

and

1383 Palestinian minors have died

http://www.btselem.org/statistics

[Sunlei]

50. 127 Israeli minors have died & the Iron dome knocks out 87% of Hamas missiles.

Makes me wonder how many would have died without the Iron dome?

How many would have died if Israel didn't knock out 200 missile launchers, underground tunnels and piles of missiles. With no advance warning.

[azurnoir]

52. if you look at the stats you'll find

that 121 of those deaths occurred in the period between 9/29/2000 and 12/26/2008 well prior to Iron Dome

[Sunlei]

54. yes, I understand

[azurnoir]

58. the greastest portion of those were during Intifada2

also all but one of the 6 between 12/26/08 and 5/31/14 occurred in the West Bank where Iron Dome does not operate

[Sunlei]

59. guess they're lucky russia, china, iran? doesn't sell hamas the targeting software.

[awoke_in_2003]

81. Over a ten to one ratio...

that is about right for Israel.

[reddread]

18. so now that you know, William

what are your thoughts?

[William769]

21. Stop the rockets and agree to the cease fire then all is good to sit and figure this out.

You may not like my thoughts, but there it is.

[reddread]

22. 11 to 1 death ratio

who needs to stop the rockets the most?
I appreciate your thoughts, why would you assume
I "dont like them"?

[William769]

23. They had a chance at a cease fire.

Which certain people just refuse to accept Israel is on board for it. I don't blame them one damn bit for what they are doing.

And who needs to stop the rockets the most is the side that is losing and will continue to lose.

[ballyhoo]

24. Exactly opposite in this case.

ddddd

[reddread]

25. seems like clearly flawed reasoning. do you think they are crazy?

if they are being outkilled 11 to 1, and refuse to accept their fate and capitulate,
does that mean they are insane,
or simply committed to their own interests?
At what ratio do you expect they will recover their sanity?
maybe Israel needs to step it up and get things over with?
what do you think about that? Is there hope in greater disparity of
child murders?

[William769]

28. Your numbers are meaningless.

If one side refuse's to sit down at the table, I am not going to tell the other side to bad you will just have to live with rockets coming at you.

I am done here, you have your opinion and I have mine. Fortunately for me, mine is the correct one.

Have a nice day.

[reddread]

30. 1 to 11, 11 to 1

you enjoy your safety.

[azurnoir]

66. are you opining that the Hamas refusal of a cease fire gives Israel carte blanche?

Israel can now do what ever it wishes?

[reddread]

75. no need to participate in a discussion on a discussion board?

[Nihil]

93. Ah, the voice of peaceful (single-issue) opinion ...

> The long-sought realization of some rights for some gays should not blind us
> to the struggles against racism in Europe and the United States, or
> to the Palestinians’ insistence on a land to call home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/23/opinion/pinkwashing-and-israels-use-of-gays-as-a-messaging-tool.html?_r=0

I suspect certain people would have a whole different opinion on which particular
numbers were "meaningless" if their chosen sacred cow was on the receiving end
of the Israeli attacks ...

[ballyhoo]

29. Only those who have been defending a small plot

of land with the enemy closing in from all around, with dead men beside you and on top of you, some screaming for their mothers while gagging on their own blood would know. I've been there. Maybe you have too. Sometimes you can't give up even when logic says that may be the order.

[Chemisse]

91. That is true. None of us can know the level of hopelessness and desperation

that drives the Palestinians to continue to fight, against overwhelming odds.

[FarrenH]

97. You mean those like the Palestinians?

[ballyhoo]

99. Yes

[azurnoir]

37. you do realize it was announced that Hamas had rejected the cease fire

hours prior to Israel's Cabinet meeting where it was accepted?

[The Stranger]

56. None.

If you're talking about these recent events.

[DeSwiss]

87. None.

- Although some might have been sent to bed early so their parents could watch the festivities.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. No. They were just "knocking on the roof" of a sandcastle

It was all very loving and considerate.

Why was the beach using those kids as human shields? Hmmm? Answer that, anti-Semites!!!

[reddread]

9. how many missiles did Rachel Corrie fire at them? How many did these journalists fire at them?

http://cpj.org/killed/mideast/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/

murderers.
murderers.
murderers.

[IronGate]

12. The terror org Hamas is wholly responsible for those deaths,

if they had accepted the cease fire instead of outright rejecting it and continuing to attack Israel with rockets, then those 4 people would still be alive.

[ballyhoo]

14. Negative. Had they accepted the cease fire they would

be in EXACTLY the place they are in now. Israel has gone too far this time. Soon it won't only Hamas firing rockets. There may be another H on scene, who will not be acquiescing while the enemy is in training mode this time.

[IronGate]

16. Are you saying that those 4 people would have been killed even if the terror org Hamas

had accepted the cease fire?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

43. "So called"?

Are we really using right wing lingo now? Did you hear that on the Mark Levin show?

[7962]

83. Ha! Levin loves to hear the sound of his own voice. To me, he's worse than rush

The palestinians are just as much Jordanian as they are anything else. When the partition re-creating Israel happened, it also created Jordan from the same land. Jordan promptly annexed more land. So any talk of Israel giving up land for a new country should also include Jordan doing the same, yet it NEVER does. Why? Why shouldnt Jordan add land to give a bigger state to them? The term palestinian was not used in essence until the British created the British Mandatory Palestine after WW1 using land seized from the Turks. Even the Arabs at the time did not agree with the creation because to them this area was southern Syria. There were even protests among other Arabs at the creation of a palestinian area. Only after France conquered Syria in '20 did Arabs all of a sudden start to consider a separate Muslim area and consider it "Palestine", because they had no liking for France of course. In '47 the palestinians were offered their own land at the same time, but they refused to accept it. There has never been a Palestinian king, monarch, president, etc.

[ballyhoo]

20. Quite possibly... I am saying the position of

the PALS with respect to the takeover of their territory by Isreal would be exactly the same. Palestine has taken a final stand. Better to die as men then be enslaved by an enemy--particularly this enemy.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

46. If you killed my kids on the beach.....

I'd be hard pressed not to fire a rocket at your house.

[Maedhros]

74. It's not hard to understand such a response.

&feature=kp

[Larkspur]

73. Hamas, a group fueld by Israel to counter Arafat's PA

I guess you can say that Hamas is Israel's Mujahedin or Frankenstein monster.

[Swede Atlanta]

13. Time for the U.S. to exit this hell hole......

I want to stop any U.S. financial or any other type of support (including intelligence sharing) to both sides. If they want to kill one another then so be it. If they want to find a way to peacefully co-exist I am all for it.

But the time has come for the U.S. to walk away. This is not our fight. We are not, or should not be Israel's paymaster. They have resources to defend themselves. They should use them. And when they run out of bullets they should finance or find other means of defending themselves.

The Palestinians have an equal right to a homeland. The west felt sorry for the Jews after the holocaust and agreed to give them a homeland which pushed Palestinians off of land they had been farming or tending for hundreds of years. This is not unlike the U.S. treatment of the native peoples.

I understand the frustration of both sides. But our involvement isn't going to solve this. The two sides should be left alone to kill one another off (not my preferred solution) or to resolve their differences.

I do not want any more of my tax money going to fund Israel's killing of Palestinians or aid that ends up in the hands of Hamas militants. I want that money going to feed and care for our poor and our veterans, rebuild our highways and bridges, provide health care for our people, invest in education, etc.

[msongs]

27. there is no cause and effect link between hamas rockets and israelis murdering kids on a beach nt

[reddread]

32. nothing rational anyway n/t

[ballyhoo]

33. Another good point.

[fireflysky46]

35. The Russians searching a diversion for their crimes in Chechenia and Ukraine

There is so much link now between Hamas and Russia.

[Comrade Grumpy]

38. Speaking of diversions...

[fireflysky46]

41. Hamas head to make diplomatic trip to Moscow

Hamas head to make diplomatic trip to Moscow http://toi.sr/T5QUma via @timesofisrael

[reddread]

70. hate much?

[reddread]

69. +1

[Sunlei]

36. Its horrible when anyone is killed. Israel had 200 target strikes today

They will not let Hamas rain missiles on their country. What country would stand by and let that happen.?

So far the Iron dome has stopped 87% of Hamas missiles!

Today 5:40 PM, the 'beach area' that was warned for a couple of days-

"5:40 P.M. According to the IDF, since the resumption of strikes on the Gaza Strip, the Israel Air Force has attacked some 30 targets across the Strip. Among the targets were twenty underground launchers, tunnels, an ammunition depot, and the house of an Islamic Jihad official. The IDF says the strikes were carried out in response to the barrages of rockets fired at Israeli territory. (Gili Cohen) "

ref LIVE UPDATES http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.605161

[ballyhoo]

45. The Iron Dome? .......

When you get a chance, you might want to read this from Moti Shefer as conveyed to progressive radio.

http://prn.fm/iron-dome-bluff-says-israeli-defense-expert-moti-shefer/

[Sunlei]

51. It works, I have friends who live there.

[ballyhoo]

53. I have relatives who live there. It

only looks like it works. It's all a mirage.

[Comrade Grumpy]

39. The root cause of this conflict must be resolved or Israel and Palestine will never know peace.

And Hamas rockets are not the root cause. We all know what it is.

[fireflysky46]

42. Hamas head to make diplomatic trip to Moscow http://toi.sr/T5QUma via @timesofisrael

Hamas head to make diplomatic trip to Moscow http://toi.sr/T5QUma via @timesofisrael

[arcane1]

55. Who can blame them? I would do the same thing.

[fireflysky46]

61. But for sure now the Palestinians are manipulate for

Strategies that are not in their own advantage.

[ballyhoo]

63. You don't know that. What if Putin sends

Netanyahoo a message that says, he, Putin, strongly suggests you do not attack Palestine?

[fireflysky46]

64. For sure He does, and he does also for the Hamas

And you know why, or not....

[ballyhoo]

65. He puts fear in Israel, who then goes to the

US, that blinks on what to do, which allows Putin to be more aggressive in Ukraine. Is this what you think?

[fireflysky46]

67. NO, you don't got it, this have nothing to do with Obama, who his one

Of your best president the US got in the US History !

But the issue is that Obama have some issue to deal with the after Cold-War, it's not just him, the Bush too don't get it. In face of Erika.

[ballyhoo]

68. You mean "Katrina"?

dd

[geek tragedy]

60. where else are they going to turn, Washington? nt

[closeupready]

44. I've said this elsewhere, will repeat here: Israelis will succeed

in effectively expelling the Palestinians, just as the Romans succeeded in expelling the Jews. Life will go on, and Palestinians will forget about it all, just as Jewish people did.

[ballyhoo]

47. No, they won't-- Just as Iraq was the US's Parthia,

Palestine will be Israel's....but this time before the final battle.

[closeupready]

48. We'll see. Either way, I think we agree, Palestinians will forget

just like the Jewish people did.

More seriously, it's such an obvious parallel that you gotta wonder if the logic the Israelis are using here is out of the Twilight Zone.

[ballyhoo]

49. Ah, I understand now...Not the Twilight Zone...

the Masonic Agenda.

[Ghost Dog]

62. Yes. I thought that was irony

Same btw applies to Iberia/Sepharad/al Ándalus/Spain and (some of) their people(s), it seems ...

[another_liberal]

72. They did?

Joke, right?

[closeupready]

76. Of course not. That's my (obtuse) point - they will not forget.

Leading, in all likelihood, to future bloodshed. Obviously, one always hopes for peace and reconciliation, regardless of how horribly one side in a dispute persecutes the other side. But doesn't seem like that is the path taken, historically.

[Tetris_Iguana]

78. Exactly spot on.

Sure a small subset of Palestinians will continually yearn for the old days, but most will integrate or migrate and move on with their lives.

Peace through strength
(Which btw is strongly rooted in the FDR and Andrew Jackson tradition)

[amandabeech]

86. I'm glad someone thinks that is possible. n/t

[Xolodno]

57. 4 Palestinian kids died today....

...the survivors became Hamas recruits.

The Jewish peacemakers understand this and want to find a way to end this.

The Jewish war-lords (like Bibi) understand this and look at this as an excuse to exterminate them.


Peacemakers understand sooner or later, the world's stomach for this will end and turn against them.

War-lords don't understand and think they can retake everything at the height of Solomon's Kingdom.


To a peacemaker, life is precious.

To a warlord, they think anyone not like them is a dog.

[another_liberal]

71. The Guardian has this story as well.

Witness to a shelling: first-hand account of deadly strike on Gaza port

"The first projectile hit the sea wall of Gaza City's little harbour a little after four o'clock. As the smoke from the explosion thinned, four figures could be seen running, ragged silhouettes, legs pumping furiously along the wall. Even from a distance of 200 metres, it was obvious that three of them were children.

Jumping off the harbour wall, they turned on to the beach, attempting to cross the short distance to the safety of the Al-Deira hotel, base for many of the journalists covering the Gaza conflict.

They waved and shouted at the watching journalists as they passed a little collection of brightly coloured beach tents, used by bathers in peacetime. It was there that the second shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: 'They are only children!'"








http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/witness-gaza-shelling-first-hand-account

[reddread]

77. pretty sure thats called war crimes

[another_liberal]

79. Is intentionally targeting and killing fleeing civilians a war crime?

We have a winner.

[yeoman6987]

80. I don't think Israel is under The Hague either.

That is why the U.S. wasn't put up in front of The Hague. If you are not a member, they don't have jurisdiction.

[reddread]

82. doesnt change much

accountability being what it is and all
"off the table"

[another_liberal]

84. Israel is not the United States . . .

Warrants against American leaders would, sadly, be unenforceable under current conditions. But Israel is not the United States.

I can see Netanyahu living to stand trial at the Hague, even if Cheney and Bush manage to continue dodging their certain guilt until the final exit.

[FarrenH]

98. Warrants against American leaders have kept them from travelling to some developed countries

Spain and Canada being among them. So that's not entirely true.

[tjl148]

89. Is that not what Hamas does?

We have winner.

[another_liberal]

92. Are you saying Israel is justified . . .

Because a group they classify as "terrorists" does it too?

That is what I call a morality-free argument.

[tjl148]

94. No,

just pointing out you should have added Hamas to the list of winners.

[another_liberal]

95. You do realize, don't you . . .

I meant "winner" in reference to the suggestion by an earlier poster that Israel's actions were a war crime. I meant he was correct, Israel's action in killing those boys does constitute a war crime.

[tjl148]

96. And...

I was just correcting your oversight in not including Hamas as war criminals. Of course, you do realize they are war criminals of the worst kind.

[smirkymonkey]

85. This is just so sad. Those poor children.

And the poor families who lost them.

[DeSwiss]

88. K&R

link

[Ichingcarpenter]

90. Israeli terrorists blow up four kids

Israeli terrorists blow up four kids on a beach for no good reason.