France's Jews Flee As Rioters Burn Paris Shops, Attack Synagogue

[iandhr]

Source: Huff Post

France's politicians and community leaders have criticised the "intolerable" violence against Paris' Jewish community, after a pro-Palestinian rally led to the vandalizing and looting of Jewish businesses and the burning of cars.

It is the third time in a week where pro-Palestinian activists have clashed with the city's Jewish residents. On Sunday, locals reported chats of "Gas the Jews" and "Kill the Jews", as rioters attacked businesses in the Sarcelles district, known as "little Jerusalem".

Manuel Valls, France's prime minister said: “What happened in Sarcelles is intolerable. An attack on a synagogue and on a kosher shop is simply anti-Semitism. Nothing in France can justify this violence.”

Religious leaders gathered for an interfaith service on Monday to call for calm, and Haim Korsia, the chief rabbi of France, and Hassen Chalghoumi, the imam of Drancy shook hands on the steps of the synagogue.

Francois Pupponi, the mayor of Sarcelles, told BFMTV that the violent attacks were carried out by a "horde of savages."



Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/22/france-jewish-shops-riot_n_5608612.html

[geek tragedy]

1. Where are the damn police?

They should be guarding Jewish businesses.

These thugs are certainly making the case that anti-semitism is driving the hatred of Israel in certain quarters.

[JDPriestly]

5. It is. Anti-semitism is driving the hatred of Israel in certain quarters. Not all.

Some naive, historically illiterate people don't understand what is going on. But anti-semitism has been alive and well for many, many, many centuries. At least since, and probably well before the Inquisition.

I lived in Europe including in France and understand very well why Israel exists. Palestinians also deserve good lives, but Jewish people for absolutely no reason draw so much hatred that they have to have a homeland. It's hard for people who have not seen the ugly face of anti-Jewish sentiment to understand, but that is the reality.

Religious and cultural intolerance is a terrible thing for all of its victims. The Jews are not the only victims of it. But Israel exists for a reason. Many who do not understand this may be about to find out.

I was studying in France in 1965, and the anti-Jewish comments I heard were my first inkling of what anti-Jewish fanaticism is about. It woke me up but I still did not understand until I went back and lived in various parts of Europe at a later time.

I am not Jewish so people were very open with me. I was horrified. I do not feel like that about nay people of any race or religion.

People who hate Jewish people will give any excuse for their feelings. There are a couple of other ethnicities that also face a lot of prejudice. And in the US, Jewish people are normally not hated although a small minority is full of hate, but in Europe and perhaps in parts of Asia I have heard, the hatred is very strong. I don't understand why people feel that way, but I have heard it and seen it. So that is why I support Israel's right to exist.

[geek tragedy]

8. One can understand why in the immediate area

of Israel/Palestine, Jews begin to hate Arabs and Arabs begin to hate Jews--just like any two groups at war wind up hating each other.

Tragic and extremely harmful to all involved, but one can begin to understand this.

When one sees what's going on in Europe, one appreciates that a great many bigots are just using the issue of I/P to wallow in their own evil.

But, just to be clear, there are a lot of criticisms from a progressive point of view on Israel. But the people burning synagogues are just a coalition of the Hitler crowd and the bin laden crowd.

[Iamthetruth]

11. Anti semitic behavior

Is increasing across the globe and you don't need to go across the pond to find it. You can see it in slanted news broadcasts you can see it in debates on TV and in the newspaper. It may be slight but it is there. I lost many relatives in the holocaust and I was told never again by many people. Well I have told my children that in their life time there will be another attempt at an holocaust but I hope I am wrong. Unfortunately I don't think I will be.

[Guaguacoa]

94. I posted statistics in post #92

The highest count of hate crimes against religion in the us is against jews. Yet it does not get as much exposure as against other groups. Not paying attention to something is a sure way to let it grow out of hand.

[Behind the Aegis]

96. "Not paying attention to something is a sure way to let it grow out of hand."

That is an excellent point. It is even more startling when anti-Semitism is mocked or diminished or excused:

Just screaming Anti-Semitism is a convenient self-serving response - this is a reaction to the genocide taking place in Gaza in much the same way as the world turned on the Nazis for the horrific genocide of European Jews.

Basically, it magically ceases to be anti-Semitism if Israel does something bad.

[Guaguacoa]

98. Yes, I don't get it. Attacks on

jews in other countries is anti-semitism and anything israel does is not justification. If so then a commnist (athiest) country doing something wrong is justification for attacking athiests in other countries?

[LeftishBrit]

131. Exactly!

Just as it is not appropriate to blame Muslims as a whole for 9-11.

[Guaguacoa]

148. Bingo, double standards suck.nt

[JudyM]

154. +1

Welcome to DU, IamtheTruth!

[Guaguacoa]

95. Well said.nt

[dhill926]

38. excellent, well balanced post...

[DFW]

14. They should not NEED to be guarding Jewish businesses.

But in the name of "tolerance," many European countries--not just France--have given Muslim immigrant groups a pass on violent crime. The unfortunate, though predictable, result was the rise of reactionary far right movements that made hating all foreigners their free tickets to votes they never would/should have gotten otherwise.

Last year, in Paris IIième, just before going down the steps into a Métro station, some guy looked at me (Arab, I assumed) and started shouting "Hezbollah! Hezbollah!" apparently assuming I was Jewish. I just smiled and gave him a friendly wave, which confused him at least long enough to stop shouting.

[geek tragedy]

16. the whole thing in Europe is fucked up.

the rightwing nationalists have splintered between those who want to help Jews bash Muslims (they don't like regular French Jews but they love the hardcore settlers in Israel) and those who want to help Muslims bash Jews.

[DFW]

22. Not equally

There haven't been especially large Jewish communities in Europe since World War II. France and Belgium ARE exceptions, but with the huge number of Turks in Germany and Austria, and Moroccans in Belgium and Holland (to a lesser degree in Scandinavia), the number of Muslim haters have outnumbered the Jew haters for the simple reason that the Muslim haters have a much bigger target to shoot at. Plus, bashing Muslim immigrants (discriminated against, and, being poorer, more likely to commit violent crime) won't automatically get you called a Nazi. Bashing Jews (in Germany and Austria, at least) will, and Nazis are still illegal in Germany and Austria. If you're going to join a hate group, you might as well join one that won't get you arrested. In France and Belgium, the cops are scared to arrest an Arab just for hate speech because they know full well a full scale riot will ensue. And if a full scale riot ensues, they're STILL reluctant to arrest a rioter for fear of riots expanding to other areas of the country. I live over there, am in France and Belgium once a week, speak all the local languages (not Hebrew or Arabic). I see this stuff all the time.

[geek tragedy]

51. one thing Europeans don't condescend towards the US very much on

is race relations, because that wouldn't work too well

[philosslayer]

126. Blaming the Muslims for all of this?

So dark and scary Muslims are "running wild" all over the streets of Europe while the fair skinned natives hover in their homes and doorways? Wow, nothing bigoted about THIS post. Substitute "African Americans" and "the United States" in your post and it would get alerted on in a heartbeat.

[Codeine]

142. Good old-fashioned French natives

are quite prone to anti-Semitism with no help needed from their scary dark-skinned immigrant population. Hating European Jewry transends black and white, left and right, and secular, Christian, and Muslim.

[yeoman6987]

79. And folks wonder why I am 100 percent in approval of Israel in all they do

This is disgusting. Of course France thinks they are better then the USA. Yeah right!

[candelista]

128. "In all they do"?

Including this?

Gaza crisis: Israeli strike on compound housing UN school kills at least 15

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/jul/24/gaza-crisis-palestinian-death-toll-passes-700-live-updates

[Guaguacoa]

86. Maybe it's like the us?

WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

[geek tragedy]

89. in the US, the Jews could buy hunting rifles and that would end this right quick

without further bloodshet or violence. The pogromists would have a lot more respect and just stay away.

sad but true.

[Guaguacoa]

93. I agree. I may be wrong but I think others would help also.nt

[freshwest]

150. Wow, that's disgusting.

[Historic NY]

2. Really....maybe the offenders would like to be deported..

[JackRiddler]

6. How do you know "the offenders" are not citizens?

[geek tragedy]

9. A lot of them are born in France, though, second and third

generation.

[IronLionZion]

124. especially the white ones

[Agnosticsherbet]

3. It appears the are trying to initiate a Pogrom.

Pure anti-Semitism at work.

[George II]

4. November 9 1938

[Stuart G]

13. You are correct..this is awful beyond words.

Killing of huge numbers of people in Palestine, for any reason, will result in what happened in Paris, in my opinion. There is hatred brewing against Jewish people,(it is always there) and I think it needed a little spark to get the pot boiling. There has been a spark. The pot is now boiling and throwing off toxic poison. No good comes from killing lots of people. Violence begets violence. very very sad ..

[riderinthestorm]

48. + 10000. K&R. nt

[Guaguacoa]

97. So you think this is ok

to take it out on people that have nothing to do with it? That's the way it sounds. If a communist, atheist country attacks someone is it ok to take it our on atheists in other countries?

[SummerSnow]

7. What the heck started this?

[TeamPooka]

10. Israel-Gaza attacks in the news

[seveneyes]

42. People teaching children to hate

That is what propagates it. Stop the teaching of hate, and things will get progressively better in short order.

[pscot]

55. Once upon a time there was a region called Palestine

Sykes-Picot? the Balfour Declaration? The collapse of the Ottomans? There's a lot of history to this, and when history piles up it always leads to trouble.

[Behind the Aegis]

56. Jews refused to die out.

This is not new, but every time something happens in Israel in regards to Gaza (rarely the West Bank), all Jews get punished, except the "good" Jews, the ones who loudly proclaim how much they hate themselves or Israel. To some, it is "blowback," and while they might find it "sad", there are worse things, according to them.

[freshwest]

151. Mobs see no difference between 'ones who loudly proclaim how much they hate themselves' and others.

Just as in the 1930's.

[LeftishBrit]

132. It started thousands of years ago...

but why it's worse right now in Europe than sometimes is (a) Middle Eastern conflict inflaming tensions; (b) economic crisis, and guess who always gets blamed when the economy is bad.

[DFW]

15. Never happen.

Hollande might give a dull speech on French TV, though, if things really look like they are getting out of hand.....

[DFW]

25. No, they don't, but they are not fools, either

They know the limits of their protection under local law, and how to stretch them--and they do just that.

[DFW]

32. No one should be persecuted, period.

And if you meant prosecuted, you go tell that to a local prosecutor who will lose his job if he incites a riot that will cost a billion euros, four dead, and discourage outside investment (=jobs) in his region. These guys are forced to take into consideration more than just if some 18 year old clown busted a window, no matter what the letter of the law says.

[DFW]

43. BS or not, it is reality

There was a corrupt town to our southeast in Texas where the head cop and the mayor were robbing passers-through of every cent they had for conjured-up "speed violations." They got away with it for years, even after a TV report on them. Did anyone go down there to arrest them? It was organized crime, brazenly out in the open--a far worse offense than a broken window. And yet no one in Austin sent the State Police to arrest them. No one in Washington sent Federal agents, and the whole operation had been exposed on national TV!! So go argue about vandals breaking windows in Paris without getting arrested, but crimes go unpunished all the time all around the world. In Pakistan, "honor killings" where a father and his sons stone or stab a daughter to death for going out with the "wrong" boy. No one arrests them, either, even though murder is against the law in Pakistan--nominally, at least. You want a perfect world? Write a book.

[xocet]

58. Is this the case to which you are referring?

Settlement Means No More Highway Robbery in Tenaha, Texas
By Elora Mukherjee, Staff Attorney, ACLU Racial Justice Program at 11:22am
08/09/2012

On Friday, the ACLU settled a class action lawsuit, pending court approval, against officials in the East Texas town of Tenaha and Shelby County over the rampant practice of stopping and searching drivers, almost always Black or Latino, and often seizing their cash and other valuable property. The money seized by officers during these stops went directly into department coffers. It was highway robbery, targeting those who could least afford to challenge the officers’ abuse of power, under the guise of a so-called “drug interdiction” program and made possible by Texas’s permissive civil asset forfeiture laws.

Hundreds, if not more than a thousand, people have been stopped under the interdiction program. From 2006 to 2008, police seized approximately $3 million from at least 140 people as part of the program. None of the ACLU’s clients were ever arrested or charged with a crime after being stopped and shaken down.

Officers who are defendants in the case testified that there were no limits on the searches and seizures conducted under the interdiction program. One of the defendants, Barry Washington, testified that he considered the ethnicity and religion of the motorists to be factors relevant to establishing reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Under oath, when asked what indicators of criminal activity might be, Washington testified:

Well, there could be several things. There could even be indicators on the vehicle. The number one thing is you have two guys stopped, and these two guys are from New York. They’re two Puerto Ricans. They’re driving a car that has a Baptist Church symbol on the back, says First Baptist Church of New York.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform-racial-justice/settlement-means-no-more-highway-robbery-tenaha-texas

[DFW]

72. Barry Washington was the corrupt cop

The mayor was some woman wannabe country music singer. They were in partnership together. The ACLU did what Rick Perry was unwilling to do. Texas-born crooks were less of a concern to him than "messicans."

[Rhinodawg]

26. Who are " these groups " ?

is it allowed to be said here ?

[Rhinodawg]

33. I guess you can't say it after all.

thx

[get the red out]

78. No, can't be said

Not PC.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

57. Al-Jazeera says the demonstrations were organized by Arab immigrant groups in France

It's distressing to see that the endless conflict between Arab and Jew is spilling over into Europe.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/19/paris-gaza-police.html

[Igel]

29. A Tunisian-French teen gets killed by cops

while trying to escape and there are riots nightly for a week.

If anything bad happens, then the targets aren't Jews, but the police.

The police and French have law-enforcement jurisdiction at the discretion of the locals. However, the French still provide subsidized housing and social benefits. It's an obligation for which no gratitude is deemed appropriate; gratitude is expected, however, for allowing the police to enter.

Under such conditions, the police are not going to be able to do much. In the salad bowl that France is becoming, that is what happens when you put in unpitted olives and don't want the guests--teeth get broken and tempers flare.

[iandhr]

46. So the "locals"

can decide if the people who did this can be arrested?

[shaayecanaan]

61. Arab population of France is 10%. Arab population of Israel is 20% and rising.

If Jews are fleeing France for Israel thinking that they're going to get away from Arabs, they've got it slightly arse about.

[PatrickforO]

19. People are so stupid!

We blame each other when our governments do something egregious, but people in general just want to make their living. It's the big money corporations that have our politicians in their pockets we need to be blaming.

[RobertEarl]

62. After 9/11

It was very dangerous to be a Muslim in the US.

[Behind the Aegis]

63. Did you see that as bigotry?

[RobertEarl]

64. Did you see it as bigotry?

[Behind the Aegis]

65. I asked you, can you not answer the question?

[RobertEarl]

67. It was dangerous is what i said.

Define bigotry.

[Behind the Aegis]

68. Bigotry

Bigotry is the state of mind of someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust or hatred on the basis of a person's ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

[RobertEarl]

69. Yep

I'm surprised you had to ask. Bigotry is always dangerous for those whom bigotry is directed against.

Those days after 9/11 made me sick seeing the bigotry directed at Muslims in the US. Wasn't every one made sick from that?

[Behind the Aegis]

70. But what I asked was if you saw it as bigotry.

It seems some do not see what is happening to French Jews as bigotry, it is reactions to "bad policy."

BTW, attacks against Jews went up after 9/11 as well in this country.

[Guaguacoa]

84. It's still, an has always been, siginificantly higher for jews

Last edited Tue Feb 17, 2015, 03:21 PM - Edit history (3)

Even if we say there is the same amount of each there are far more anti semitic acts.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/muslims/etc/faqs.html

Estimates range that between five to 12 million Muslims live in the United States. About one-third of them are African-Americans. Another third are originally from the Indian subcontinent, including Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. The last third include Arab immigrants, Latinos, other European and Caucasian Muslims, and converts to Islam. The first Muslims to come to the Americas were brought as slaves. The first mosque built in America was in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/02/how-many-jews-are-there-in-the-united-states/

There are about 4.2 million American adults who say they are Jewish by religion, representing 1.8% of the U.S. adult population. But there are roughly 5.3 million Jews (2.2% of the adult population) if the total also includes “Jews of no religion,” a group of people who say they are atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular” when asked about their religion but who were raised Jewish or have a Jewish parent and who still consider themselves Jewish aside from religion. This is the net Jewish population as defined by the Pew Research report.

fbi statistics 2001

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2001

Among the 2,004 offenses motivated by religious prejudice (17.5 percent of the single-bias offense total), anti-Jewish bias made up 55.7 percent; anti-Islamic bias accounted for 27.2 percent; anti- Catholic bias, 1.9 percent; and anti-Protestant bias, 1.8 percent. Bias against other religious groups accounted for 10.5 percent.
fbi statistics 2002

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2002/hatecrime02.pdf

Anti-Jewish 1,039
Anti-Islamic 170

FBI statistics 2003

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2003/hatecrime03.pdf

1426 hate crime offenses

69.2% anti jewish
10.9% anti islamic

FBI statistics 2004

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/


1374 offences

Anti-Jewish 954
Anti-Islamic 156

FBI stastics 2005

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2005

Of the 1,405 victims of an anti-religion hate crime:

69.5 percent were victims of an anti-Jewish bias.
10.7 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.

FBI statistics 2006

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006/victims.html

Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.

FBI statistics 2007

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2007

Of the 1,628 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

69.2 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
8.7 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.

FBI statistics 2008

https://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/victims.html

Of the 1,732 victims of anti-religious hate crimes:

66.1 percent were targeted because of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
7.5 percent were victims because of an anti-Islamic bias.

FBI statistics 2009

https://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2009/victims.html

Of the 1,575 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

71.9 percent were victims because of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
8.4 percent were victims because of an anti-Islamic bias.

FBI statistics 2010

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2010/narratives/hate-crime-2010-victims

Of the 1,552 victims of an anti-religion hate crime:

67.0 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
12.7 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.

FBI statistics 2011

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2011/narratives/victims

Of the 1,480 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

63.2 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
12.5 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.

fbi statistics 2012

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2012/topic-pages/victims/victims_final

Religious bias
Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
7.5 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
6.4 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
2.6 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
0.9 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
8.6 percent were victims of a bias against other religions (anti-other religion). (Based on Table 1.)

fbi statistics 2013


Of the 1,223 victims of anti-religious hate crimes:

60.3 percent were victims of crimes motivated by their offenders’ anti-Jewish bias.
13.7 percent were victims of anti-Islamic (Muslim) bias.
6.1 percent were victims of anti-Catholic bias.
4.3 percent were victims of bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
3.8 percent were victims of anti-Protestant bias.
0.6 percent were victims of anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
11.2 percent were victims of bias against other religions (anti-other religion). (Based on Table 1.)

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2013

Hate is always wrong, but actually hate crimes in the US against muslims never rose anywhere near those of jews. It was just more politically correct to publicize those against muslims.

[Behind the Aegis]

91. I didn't ask if there WAS bigotry against Muslims after 9-11

You read the post incorrectly which explains your odd remarks. At least now I understand why you were going on about Islamophobia after 9/11 in a thread about anti-Semitism.

[Guaguacoa]

92. My reply was meant for FobertEarl specifically

who said:

"Those days after 9/11 made me sick seeing the bigotry directed at Muslims in the US. Wasn't every one made sick from that?"

It's also meant for anyone talking about islamic bigotry In a thread about bigotry against jews. The bigotry against jews has long been going on in the us since before 9/11 and worse than against muslims. Wasn't he also made sick from that?

I agree with you lostinca, both are bad.

I remember someone said to whoopi goldberg on the view that hate crimes are higher against jews. She said "maybe someone believes that". It's pc in the us to publicize hate crimes on muslims more so there are many people that believe they have more hate crimes perpetrated against them. Hate is horrible against anyone, but hate against one group is worse than hate against another group.

I am a mexican, spent time in the US, and experienced more hate and racism in ca than anywhere in the south. Surprising, but politically incorrect for anyone in the us to acknowledge.

[Behind the Aegis]

66. Then this shows another level of stupidity.

Those attacked in the OP aren't even Israeli, they are "guilty" of being Jews. So, they are being punished for something another government is doing.

It's the big money corporations that have our politicians in their pockets we need to be blaming.

What? This isn't even about the US, unless you are French.

[Rhinodawg]

23. Hundreds of French Jews Immigrate To Israel During Gaza Offensive

Undeterred by the relentless rounds of cross-border hostilities between Israel and Hamas, hundreds of French Jewish immigrants gleefully accepted their Israeli identity cards at a ceremony here on Thursday afternoon.

"I came because of anti-Semitism,” said teary-eyed Veronique Rivka Buzaglo, one of 430 immigrants who arrived from France the day before. "You see it in the eyes of people. I see it in everything," she continued in broken Hebrew, referring to the rising anti-Semitism in her home country.

As a proud, self-identified Zionist, Buzaglo says nothing would have stopped her from becoming an Israeli citizen this week -- not even the rocket sirens frequently blaring in the south of the country, where she plans to live.

Since the conflict began on July 8, Hamas has fired more than a thousand rockets into Israel, and Israel has bombarded the Gaza Strip with land, air and sea strikes. On Thursday, Israel ramped up its military efforts and launched a major ground offensive in Gaza with thousands of troops. More than 260 Palestinians have been killed, the majority of them civilians, while there have been two Israeli fatalities, one solider and one civilian.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/jews-immigrate-israel_n_5600211.html


THAT is why there IS an ISRAEL.

[DFW]

28. I know more than one French Jew who has done that, too.

Their arguments for doing so are set in stone, and they see Obama, for example, as their enemy for being "too soft" on Arabs. It's like trying to have a rational discussion on immigration with a teabagger in Texas whose home was just burglarized by an illegal Mexican. There aren't a lot of opportunities to get in a rational word in such an emotionally charged discussion.

[Rhinodawg]

31. Considering whats going on in France...

I imagine there is a lot of rational words.

[DFW]

35. I'm in France every week for work and speak French

Not much in the way of rational words to be heard these days

[Iamthetruth]

53. Unless you were brought up with that fear

You can't understand it. It is why I hate any type of racism, but I will never understand it like a black person would. When you grow up jewish and hear the actual stories of your own family in the holocaust you see anti semitism differently. I won't travel to Europe anymore for fear that my name alone would make me a target.

[2banon]

54. Spot on point..

which is stating the obvious, but apparently there's a massive blind spot on the subject. about 6 ft deep.

[JackRiddler]

39. "Hundreds." Here is some context.

Immigration to Israel:
Total Immigration, by Country per Year
(1948 - Present)

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Immigration/immigration_by_country2.html

[Rhinodawg]

44. From the article...

"Yet despite the violence, more than a thousand Jews have made aliyah (when Jews immigrate to Israel) in the past 10 days, according to the Israeli government."

[frazzled]

45. They were emigrating from France before this

There was an article in the NY Times several months ago about a significant spike in French Jews leaving France for Israel (and elsewhere). This started before the Gaza attacks: there has been lots of antisemitism since the Popular Front got power and got busy.

[Peacetrain]

36. Israel is a government entity.. Judaism is a faith

Attacking innocent Jewish believers, because of what a goverment has done hundreds of miles away is intolerable.. Holding a group of people in another country responsible for the actions of a goverment 100s of miles a away is intolerable..

[Peacetrain]

40. Yes they should!

[Baclava]

47. Jew haters are all over Europe

[reorg]

146. except that these protesters are immigrants

and since a number of them are refugees or descendants from refugees, perhaps their emotions are based on experience and knowledge rather than irrational hatred.

[MrBig]

153. Your post is not clear -

Please explain which protestors are basing emotions on experience and knowledge rather than irrational hatred...the ones saying "gas the Jews" or the ones saying "cowardly Jews, come out and fight"?

[reorg]

155. You provided a video excerpt

I have pointed several times to a YouTube channel that documented this particular demonstration (and others) in Berlin. In the video description, the chants are listed. "Gas the Jews" is not among the observed chants, nor was it alleged elsewhere that this particularly vicious parole was shouted at any demonstration in Germany. Some of the chants were bad enough indeed, but they were not quite as primitively anti-semitic. At one of the demonstrations (not the one in your video), it is alleged that 20-30 persons shouted "gas Israel". Prompted by other demonstrators, these idiots soon shut their mouths, though.

With the exception of the one other chant you cited, even the aggressive young Arab demonstrators apparently didn't address "the Jews" in their chants, but "Israel" or "Zionists".

I felt it was worth pointing out that most if not all of these relatively aggressive young demonstrators in Berlin are obviously of Arab origin. Some of them probably immigrated as young kids or were born here as members of the relatively large Arab and Palestinian community in Berlin. Still, I think there is no doubt they have better knowledge and more interest in what is going on in the occupied territories than the average German or European.

[applegrove]

49. The youth have no memory of how fucked up France was after WWII. If you help

persecution or call for genocide you are destroying yourself.

[applegrove]

85. Paris was zombieland after WWII with people walking around saying "we did what to the jews?".

[applegrove]

90. Yeah. And they were broken. A broken people. Clinging to the myth of the resistance.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

99. France ranked 3rd in the world for the number of righteous gentiles who saved Jews during WWII

Last edited Wed Jul 23, 2014, 04:40 PM - Edit history (1)

among 50 nations according to Yad Vashem.

http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/statistics.asp


And lest we not forget, in the decade before WWII, while Germans were rallying for Adolph Hitler, France was being run by a Jew, three-time elected Prime Minister Leon Blum.

[adigal]

116. Coco Chanel was active with the Nazis

And she is revered all over the world. She should have been sent to Nuremberg, and hanged. That's all you need to know about how much France and much of the world cared about the Jews.

And every time a fashion site reviews Chanel clothes, I comment about "that Nazi company." The injustice just gets to me.

[applegrove]

117. I did not hear she was a Nazi until the last few years. Yup there were alot of collaborators.

And some people who fought to save the jews. But the country as a whole behaved terribly. Just what do the youth who terrorize jews in Paris and environs today think they will feel about it when they have a quiet moment? Their are destroying their souls by going after people because of their religious beliefs.

[jwirr]

50. Where in the hell are the adults in this world? From the 60s - violence begets violence. Grow up.

[seveneyes]

52. Bad or missing guardians

[Democat]

71. Where are the police?

This must be illegal.

[Cha]

59. This is deplorable.. these Jewish People in France are not Netenyahu and his policies.. Damn!

[Behind the Aegis]

60. They aren't the only ones getting this type of treatment.

Anti-Semitism is en vogue once again.

[Cha]

109. ..

[Behind the Aegis]

121. From Belgium

The Turkish text reads, “Dogs are allowed in this establishment but Jews are not under any circumstances.” The French text replaces “Jews” with “Zionists.”

Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/07/23/news-opinion/world/belgian-watchdog-complains-over-no-jews-allowed-cafe-sign#ixzz38MmCcgQl

From Morocco:

Moroccan Jewish Community’s Rabbi Badly Beaten In Anti-Semitic Attack on Friday

From Germany:

German Protesters Chant 'Gas the Jews' in Anti-Israel Rallies

And of course this article is about France, and remarks here range from "blowback", to "understand," to:

Just screaming Anti-Semitism is a convenient self-serving response - this is a reaction to the genocide taking place in Gaza in much the same way as the world turned on the Nazis for the horrific genocide of European Jews.

Some bigotry is apparently acceptable.

[Cha]

122. It's horrendous how some people go off the deep end with their universal size broad brush

to protest something truly awful.. but, they lose all reason and start frothing at the mouth. It says everything about them and nothing about Jewish people in other parts of the world.

"Just screaming Anti-Semitism is a convenient self-serving response - this is a reaction to the genocide taking place in Gaza in much the same way as the world turned on the Nazis for the horrific genocide of European Jews."

That person doesn't have a fucking clue. Not Acceptable.

[MrBig]

119. You are 100% correct

And that depresses me.

It's situations like this that reinforce my belief that Jews need a homeland - a place where they can be free from having to live in fear of discrimination and hate.

Unfortunately I think that opinion is considered controversial.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

80. You have to wonder why these Arab/Islamic groups held their demonstration in a Jewish neighborhood

Even if only a few of them instigated the violence (or the violence was caused by police infiltrators which is what they claim) why the hell go to a Jewish neighborhood in the first place to protest Israel? What do French Jewish shops, small businesses, and synagogues have to do with Israel's government and its military? I find this deplorably racist on their part. They should be protesting the French government in France. As racial minorities, they should be reaching out to other minority groups in France like Jews or the many Vietnamese and Armenians in France for solidarity.

[seveneyes]

81. Hate, and the practice thereof

They learn it when young.

[Ash_F]

83. This is a good point

Jewish activists played huge role in the United States' civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s, at the cost of being vilified by right wing Whites as communists or being in 'conspiracy' with Blacks against White Christians. Some soldiered on at considerable personal cost, even violence and death.

We should be unified against right wing racism, wherever it lurks.

It is unfortunate that many DUers think racism is tolerable against certain browner peoples.

[Cha]

111. Exactly, anln.. you make excellent points.

[NaturalHigh]

77. This is inhuman.

I'll never understand the hatred for Jews. A lot of people should be in jail for this crap.

[Ash_F]

82. I have been reading stories like this from France for years.

It is troubling. What is going on over there?

[RedstDem]

100. netanyahoo is dragging all jews down

they should speak up.

[Behind the Aegis]

101. No, we shouldn't have to "speak up" except to shout down the anti-Semites responsilbe.

The anti-Semites are to blame not Netanyahu.

[Codeine]

102. Nobody would get away with saying

"Bin Laden is dragging all Muslims down; they should speak up" or "Ann Coulter is dragging all women down" but I guess it's okay if we justify anti-Semitic filth with that sort of "logic" on the New DU.

[sufrommich]

103. What a truly disgusting thing to say. nt

[MrBig]

104. I've heard this before

It was on Free Republic right after 9/11...

[JI7]

105. people who hate Jews would do so without Netanyahu , this is like right wingers who always

bring up some minority as an excuse to attack all minorities .

[LanternWaste]

141. Much as you are dragging down everyone who can accurately spell and use grammar.

Much as you are dragging down everyone who can accurately spell and use grammar correctly. Maybe we should all speak up, too?

[RedstDem]

160. yuk yuk yuk

Is real hell could slice up babies on your front lawn, and you'd say they're defending themselves
I know your your type.

Keep on joking, joker.

[archaic56]

106. Have mercy

OH dear look like the instigated violence has begun.. You'd think after 2000 years of the rich using divide and conquer.. people would realize it isn't their brothers and sisters shops they should go after..It's the unethical and immoral rich. Blaming a group in the media is the way the rich keep us fighting each other.

Creator help us all

[muntrv]

107. Kristallnacht again?

[Behind the Aegis]

108. In this case, Cristalnuit!

But, yeah, one does wonder, especially given the "support" from some here.

[MrBig]

120. +1000 n/t

[adigal]

113. I think Israel has been brutal, but what do the French Jews have to do with this??

It's terrible, to do this. All over an arid, useless piece of land.

[DavidDvorkin]

114. Israel is irrelevant

Anti-semites use any excuse to give their actions an appearance of legitimacy.

[adigal]

115. I know. They would use any excuse they could.

But this conflict gives them an easier excuse. I support Israel, but am not supportive of their recent actions. None of which have anything to do with Jews in other places. This reminds me of what they did in the ghettos, just gets me sick.

[Codeine]

118. Israel is a pretext, an excuse,

a veil to hide centuries-old bigotry behind.

[Ash_F]

123. What do Palestinian civilians have to do with terrorists launching rockets?

They still get punished all the same.

The answer on both sides is racism.

[DavidDvorkin]

125. Are the shops owned by French Jews being used to hide missile launchers?

[Ash_F]

127. Nonsense.

Gaza has one of the highest population densities in the world. That in itself is a human rights disaster worthy of tearing down the wall.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5122404.stm

Dropping bombs anywhere inside will kill civilians.

[DavidDvorkin]

129. You are ignoring the point

Last edited Thu Jul 24, 2014, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Which is that the civilian deaths in Gaza are not caused by racism. Your posited parallel between Gaza and the pogroms in Paris is nonsensical.

[Ash_F]

136. Yes they are. /nt

[stranger81]

161. Absolutely agree -- no matter how vicious Israel has been during this campaign, attacks on Jews

in France, England, and other European countries are absolulely vile.

All of this is madness.

[JackRiddler]

130. Totally misleading headline...

First of all, the street fighting in Paris was between members of JDL and a few of the protesters, and contrary to what the headline suggests, no synagogue in Paris was remotely subject to attack.

See here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025286182

[Behind the Aegis]

133. The synagogue attacked was in Sarcelles.

[JackRiddler]

134. False reports were made of a synagogue attack in Paris...

which the headline suggests, in clearly misleading fashion.

[Behind the Aegis]

135. It was a suburb of Paris.

But a synagogue was attacked and that is the point for which you seem to be missing or distracting from.

[JackRiddler]

139. A false report was made about an attack...

on another synagogue in central Paris, and that is actually the point you seem to be missing or distracting from. The leader of that synagogue acted in an upstanding manner, promptly moving to refute these falsehoods in a TV interview, also criticizing extremists in the Jewish community congregated around the radical hate group, the JDL.

[Behind the Aegis]

140. But not from the thread from which you are complaining!

The only distraction is coming from YOU.

[reorg]

143. Could you please point out where

in the article such an attack is mentioned. I just read it and didn't find any mention of a synagogue being attacked.

An "attack" on a synagogue is only mentioned in the headline, possibly referring to earlier reports about the "synagogue de la rue de la Roquette" in Paris?

Thank you.

[Behind the Aegis]

145. The 2nd paragraph

as rioters attacked businesses in the Sarcelles district, known as "little Jerusalem".

The Third paragraph

Manuel Valls, France's prime minister said: “What happened in Sarcelles is intolerable. An attack on a synagogue and on a kosher shop is simply anti-Semitism. Nothing in France can justify this violence.”


You didn't even need to go to the link.


You're welcome.

[reorg]

147. That's all you know about it?

A passing mention by the prime minister, perhaps a generic reference to headlines in earlier news, is not a reliable news report.

[Behind the Aegis]

149. You have any proof contridicting the report?

No?

Then what is your motivation for questioning the veracity of the report with no contradicting proof?

[reorg]

152. as I have pointed out

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=855925

I had searched Youtube for videos of the attack and, surprisingly, found two videos documenting that the synagogue was well "defended", so to speak, by hundreds of Jewish citizens standing in front of it and singing the Marsellaise - but no indication whatsoever that an actual attack was taking place. OTOH there are many videos and recordings of news reports on YouTube documenting that a major riot had taken place on that day in Sarcelle. There is video of a number of youths demolishing a bus or streetcar station, for instance, battles between police and rioters on the streets, burning cars, tear gas in the air etc.

So there must have been scores of people with recording devices all over the place and near the synagogue, but no documentation of an attack on a synagogue.

That's why I'm curious if you have better information. The article in the OP didn't provide any detail, no description whatsoever.

I'm wondering if the headline is a reference to the reports about the synagogue in the rue de la Roquette in Paris, just as the prime minister may be saying "what happened in Sarcelle" (major riot) is unacceptable, attacks on synagogues (such as in Paris) are unacceptable. So, you see, I don't "question the veracity" of any report - there is no report here about an attack on a synagogue. But maybe you can cite one, direct me to something that had you so totally convinced as you apparently are that such an attack occurred?

[Codeine]

137. There was a synagogue attacked

in a Parisian suburb. You were informed of that in the other thread. Why do you keep claiming no synagogue was attacked when you know darned well that's not true?

[JackRiddler]

138. Why do you ask questions with a false premise?

There are reports of a synagogue attacked in Sarcelle, and I certainly have acknowledged this. That kind of action needs to be counteracted, it is not acceptable.

On "the other thread," there were reports of a synagogue attacked in central Paris, which the leader thereof refuted promptly in a TV interview as entirely untrue, even as he implicitly blamed the "rather sulfurous" JDL, a radical Jewish supremacist hate group.

On DU we see exaggerations of such incidents (in this case ignoring thousands of protesters and focusing on a handful), and also many blanket defamations of Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims, or the supporters of the Palestinian cause, or all those who oppose the ongoing Israeli war crimes and massacres of civilians of occupied Gaza. There are attempts to characterize these groups as motivated solely by "anti-Semitism" or of just being plain "animals." That needs to be counteracted, too.

[reorg]

144. Are you referring to Sarcelles?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcelles

There doesn't appear to have been an attack on a synagogue in Sarcelles. At least the article in the OP doesn't mention any.

I searched for video which should be available in masses these days, didn't find any. What I did find was video from a gathering of about 200 people, supposedly of the Jewish religion, in front of the synagogue, singing the Marseillaise:

The description says they were guarding the synagogue against an attack, or "defending the position". I don't see any indication (in the video), though, that such an attack is being attempted. Perhaps it was feared, due to the false reports mentioned by JackRiddler?

Or maybe there have actually been incidents where such attacks occurred, and the fear was justified, I don't know. It is not recognizable from the OP, though.

[King_David]

156. Here

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-france-rioters-synagogue-20140721-story.html


French politicians across the political divide on Monday denounced pro-Palestinian rioters who attacked a synagogue and Jewish-owned shops in a Paris suburb.

[reorg]

157. I assume

you are referring to this passage:

Violence had first erupted during a banned pro-Palestinian demonstration in the French capital on Saturday afternoon. Police arrested 30 people and 18 law enforcement officers were slightly injured when youths began pelting them with stones and bottles. Police responded with tear gas.

An additional 18 youths were reportedly arrested as violence erupted for a second time on Sunday in the city suburb, which has a large Jewish community. Most of the several thousand demonstrators at Saturday's protest were peaceful, but French media said police blamed both outbreaks of violence on a hard-line group of pro-Palestinian youths.

On Sunday several hundred pro-Palestinian protestors gathered in front of the local railway station. Late in the afternoon, clashes erupted in front of the local synagogue between police and protestors carrying iron bars and wooden batons. In the chaos that ensued, fire broke out at the synagogue but was rapidly brought under control.

Okay, thanks, that seems to be the extent of detail needed to talk about attacks on synagogues.

[King_David]

158. ?

[reorg]

159. it that a question?