Bloomberg jets to Israel in defiance of flight ban

[azurnoir]

Source: ToI

The move from the former mayor of New York, a city of eight million with the largest Jewish population in the US, puts him at odds with the US government that backed the ban to protect US citizens from possible Hamas rocket attacks.

Bloomberg urged the US Federal Aviation Administration to reverse the ban, saying it had handed Hamas an “undeserved victory” in a more than two-week conflict with Israel.

He announced in a statement via his official Twitter account that he was boarding an Israeli airlines flight.

“This evening I will be flying on El Al to Tel Aviv to show solidarity with the Israeli people and to demonstrate that it is safe to fly in and out of Israel,” he wrote.

He called Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion the “best protected airport in the world” where El Al flights had continued safely despite the European and North American hiatus.


Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/bloomberg-jets-to-israel-in-defiance-of-flight-ban/#ixzz38Ggqi32q

[dballance]

1. I guess using El Al instead of his own private jet is supposed to be symbolic?

I bet he's probably got maybe the whole first class cabin if he wants it though.

I'm just jealous. I usually fly steerage where they strap us to the wings so we can flap like birds to keep the plane aloft.

[davidpdx]

5. No kidding

I'm flying this weekend. Prepare to be sardined!

Right this moment I'm practicing sitting on myself so I'll be comfortable during the flight.

[dballance]

12. You're in PDX? I live in PDX. And yes, it helps to be a contortionist when one flies now. /nt

[davidpdx]

19. I'm in South Korea, but flying to PDX

Haven't been home in 3 years otherwise I wouldn't be spending the exorbitant amount of money to travel. My ticket was $1,800.

[dballance]

44. Ahh, I see.

Since PDX is home I don't have to tell you all the great things you can do here. The weather has been lovely until this week.

I'm a transplant from TN via MIA. I grew up in TN then moved to Miami for about 12 years, then here. I'd have to say PDX is my favorite of all three. Though Miami does run a close second. Well over TN.

[MADem]

2. I'll bet that's one of the most protected commercial planes in the world.

A lot of people have an interest in keeping that rather wealthy man alive.

If I were flying to Ben Gurion this week, I'd want to be on THAT plane.

[leftynyc]

18. That would be true of any El Al flight

They use security measures that you wouldn't believe. They search every piece of luggage and interview every flyer. It's the safest airline in the world. Also, depending on when the plane left, he wouldn't be effected by the faa ban if it arrives at Ben Gurion before (I think) 12:15pm (the ban was for 24 hours). I'm also not sure the faa can ban foreign carriers.

[MADem]

29. He was flying during the FAA ban, I think--that was the point, I think, to show solidarity.

You are quite right that El Al goes OTT when it comes to security. They also use profiling techniques--the Muslims enjoy more screening than other faiths, Arabs are scrutinized more heavily, etc. This isn't illegal over there, while it is, here.

In terms of protection, I was thinking more along the lines of a fighter/attack a/c escort when the aircraft came into range.

[leftynyc]

31. I was discussing

with someone on another board the theory that some of these commercial airliners may have anti-missile defense already. I remember reading about it a few years ago but never really followed up to see where it went. I'll hit the google later. I'm planning a trip to Israel next year so want to know all I can about the best way to get there.

[MADem]

32. Yes--i have heard that too, that they have a rudimentary system to detect "incoming"

that fires a laser beam at them to turn them away--I also heard about -- but have never seen deployed/used -- a chaff system to confuse the incoming weapon as to the actual target. I think that's what they're talking about when they reference "flight guard" although I think that system deploys flares instead of chaff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Guard

Supposedly, this system (the laser beam one) has been installed in a trial run in at least one El Al a/c last year:

[leftynyc]

33. Wow - that looks nifty

Now if they can only get it on all the planes without having to double the price of tickets, we'd be in business.

[MADem]

34. Yes, and it needs to be idiot-proof, not require a lot of maintenance, and not have too many

moving parts -- we don't want the thing frying the basstids in business class while they're enjoying their second Rob Roy!!!

[leftynyc]

35. Awwww - be nice

I used miles to upgrade to business on my recent vacation to Greece. I think me and the friends/family I'm planning this Israel trip with have all decided flying El Al would make us all a lot calmer.

[MADem]

36. Oh, sorry!!! We'll move you to first, right by the exit door, and

give you the good champagne rather than a rough Rob Roy!!!!!!!

Seriously, if you are going to Ben Gurion, I'd take El Al. I would not be surprised if those a/c will also enjoy an escort all the way down to the tarmac at least in the near term.

The security is thorough, and they want you there three hours ahead of flying. Just recognize that the questioning can be VERY intrusive. Make sure your fellow travellers understand this and it will all go smoother. They're also watching you while you answer on closed circuit TV--there are more people observing you than you realize.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al#Security

[leftynyc]

37. 3 of us have already been to Israel

and took El Al so we know what we're in for. The others (3) have never been but I suspect they'll have problem with the security measures. It started out with just two of us but the other two couples jumped on board immediately. We're really looking forward to it.

[MADem]

38. Make sure they know to "not play" with those guys--you don't want any of that

"guilt by association" happening. Have a good time--keep your wits about you, of course!

[leftynyc]

39. I just noticed a typo in

my prior post where I meant to say the three others will NOT have a problem the the El Al security measures. I will be sure to explain how they do not screw around and not to mess around when getting screened. If you think of any cool places/restaurants you would recommend, I have about 14 months of planning to do and would love to hear any.

[MADem]

40. Ha, that makes a huge difference--my comments were based on that typo!

When you get closer to the day, put up a post with your basic itinerary--will you be touring or sticking in one spot? Any stop offs on the way back? How long do you intend to visit (stay as long as you can!).

[leftynyc]

41. I can tell you this much

We're planning for 2 full weeks and that includes a visit to Petra. We have no interest in Eilat as we can always go to a resort. Everything else is up for grabs. There isn't anything I have seen I wouldn't love to see again which works out very well when you have people who have never been there. Other than three different nights when we plan on visiting with relatives (2 in Tel Aviv, 1 in Jerusalem), our nights are free. That's it so far.

[MADem]

42. You're gonna have a great time--you really need a week at least, and two is better still. nt

[billhicks76]

22. Of Course It's Safe

He's just proving what little a threat the Palestinians pose. They are destitute and are confronting tanks, missiles and mortar rounds with bottle rockets. Extremely disturbing.

[EX500rider]

28. Amazing range for "bottle rockets"

[billhicks76]

43. It's Just A Comparison

It's David And Goliath. Those rockets from Hamas are absolutely nothing compared to the weaponry being used on Palestinian civilians. If you can justify the force used by Israel than you could probably rationalize anything. I would hate to have my fate in your hands. If some kid in the Bronx pulled out a knife 50 ft away from 20 cops I'm assuming you would think its ok to riddle him with innumerable bullets.

[KinMd]

3. The FAA ban doesn't prevent foreign carriers, such as El Al from flying to Israel

[defacto7]

4. Well then, if Bloomberg can do it,

we all can do it!

That's one hell of a logical fallacy.

[global1]

6. Here We Go Again - If The FAA Didn't Issue This Directive And A Plane Was Shot Out Of The Sky.....

guess who would get the blame. Another damned if you do - damned if you don't situation.

After MH17 - this just seems like the rational thing to do - until and maybe - some sort of cease fire is declared. Iron Dome or not - this is a war zone. Rockets are being fired folks. Don't be stupid and put yourself in harms way.

I heard on the radio today an Israeli say that he's not afraid and that as a People that they were used to such fighting and wars as it's been going on for 1000's of years. I was flabbergasted by how nonchalantly he made that comment.

I saw an Israeli lady being interviewed and she was upset because tourism is down in Israel. She encouraged people to come to Israel and support local businesses. In the background I saw people chatting it up at a restaurant as if nothing is going on. I'm not so sure I'd like to become a tourist in a war zone.

I heard another man commend the Iron Dome and said he felt protected and all I could think is what if this dome was penetrated for some reason.

Just an observation here - if I knew I was in a country that was under attack - I'd be soiling my underwear. My gosh - if my country was used to being at war and was continually being under attack - I'd want to do something to end that chain of events. Maybe I'd encourage my government officials to come to some sort of Peace agreement with the other side - so that I can feel protected by something other than an Iron Dome. Just saying. Am I being unreasonable here? I realize that it takes two to tango. But when it comes to protecting myself and my family and my friends - I don't think I'd would think twice about trying to make Peace. It is not a sign of weakness - but IMHO a sign of strength.

[RobertEarl]

7. Don't go to Gaza, you'll be fine

It is obvious that that most places in Israel are safe. But not Gaza.

Bloomberg won't be going into Gaza, you can bet on it.

[global1]

8. I'm Sorry - But How Is It Obvious That Most Places In Israel Are Safe?......

It's a war zone. They got an enemy that is firing rockets at them. It would be just my luck to be in the wrong place at the right time and be taken out by a rocket. It just doesn't sound too touristy to me. Sorry.

[RobertEarl]

10. Your post. Read it.

The streets of israel (but not Gaza) seem safer than an American schoolyard. It's right there in your post. Here, I've copied some of it. Tell me what you think.



I heard on the radio today an Israeli say that he's not afraid and that as a People that they were used to such fighting and wars as it's been going on for 1000's of years. I was flabbergasted by how nonchalantly he made that comment.

I saw an Israeli lady being interviewed and she was upset because tourism is down in Israel. She encouraged people to come to Israel and support local businesses. In the background I saw people chatting it up at a restaurant as if nothing is going on. I'm not so sure I'd like to become a tourist in a war zone.

I heard another man commend the Iron Dome and said he felt protected and all I could think is what if this dome was penetrated for some reason.

[RobertEarl]

11. This is Gaza

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025279078

Gaza girls flee shells in Shujaiyeh, killed in place deemed safer
***warning very graphic picture at link***

A Palestinian couple from Shajaiyeh decided to leave their home several days ago and bring their family to central Gaza City, thinking it would be a safer place.

However, four sisters from the family were killed when their grandparents' home where they were taking refuge was hit by Israeli artillery shells.

"They fled the shelling in Shujaiyeh neighborhood, to their grandfather's house in Thalathini, but shells followed them there," the bereaved father said.

"My daughters were playing on the roof of their grandfather's house when I was telling my wife on the phone that we should go back home," father Yasser al-Qassas said.

The call ended all of a sudden, he said. "When I redialed there was no answer."

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=715354
1

[shaayecanaan]

9. shit just got serious

I dont think Israel will do this all again if it means all air traffic getting shut down.

And the results are in

[RobertEarl]

13. I hate discussing war tactics, but

Seems Hamas is dumb? It is now very obvious that the airport is the best place to hit. Until now the US was like, oh, ok. Now it's, don't fly there.

and now

I dont think Israel will do this all again

[shaayecanaan]

14. Well, I think it has been on their bucket list for a long time...

it is pretty hard to hit targets that far away with home-made artillery rockets.

But you are right, if you are thinking in crudely utilitarian terms. It is not a pleasant thing to contemplate. But the hope would be that, through mutual deterrence, Hamas and Israel can establish the sort of detente that currently exists between Israel and Hezbollah.

[RobertEarl]

15. Hezbollah... hadn't heard that name in awhile

All we hear now is Hamas this and Hamas that. What is this Hamas?

[shaayecanaan]

16. Well, it started off life essentially as the Gazan version of the Salvation Army

basically providing social welfare services. It soon acquired a military edge.

Initially, Israel fostered contacts with Hamas and collaborated with them in fighting their mutual enemy, the Palestinian Liberation Organisation. Sort of like how the US collaborated with the Taliban in fighting the Soviets. They persisted with this tactic a long time in the hope that the Palestinians would become embroiled in a civil war amongst themselves.

from Wiki:-

Numerous Islamist leaders, including senior Hamas founder Mahmoud Zahar, met with Yitzhak Rabin as part of "regular consultations" between Israeli officials and Palestinians not linked to the PLO.[19]

Hamas carried out its first attack against Israel in 1989, abducting and killing two soldiers. The Israel Defense Forces immediately arrested Yassin and sentenced him to life in prison, and deported 400 Hamas activists, including Zahar, to South Lebanon, which at the time was occupied by Israel. During this time Hamas built a relationship with Hezbollah.

They survive due to a confluence of factors. They do form an important part of the social fabric in Gaza. Also, the Egyptians historically were fairly indulgent towards Hamas in Gaza, and didnt do too much to combat their smuggling tunnels or their illicit trade in arms and contraband mainly smuggled in by the Sinai Bedouin. On the other hand Jordan, which borders the West Bank, keeps their wings clipped much more tightly there.

The current government in Egypt is far less tolerant of Hamas and it may be in time that they are gradually squeezed out in the same way that they are in the West Bank.

Despite what Israel says, they have very little ability to suppress Hamas themselves. Jordan and Egypt can, in the same way that Syria has the ability to suppress Hezbollah if they want to. If Jordan's pro-Western government were ever to fall, the West Bank could become another Gaza.

[RobertEarl]

17. Are there other factions more prone to violence?

Seems Hamas had a good reputation.

Could there be groups not Hamas that use the missiles? Like gangs? Surely Hamas doesn't control everything in a city of _______ millions?

[shaayecanaan]

20. Sure

Since Hamas took over as the de facto government in Gaza, they have had to be more judicious in engaging in war with Israel as a matter of practical necessity. This has paved the way for other more militant groups to emerge.

The most important of these is Islamic Jihad. They are much more willing to engage in rocket attacks as they do not share the burden of responsibility of governing with Hamas. But their rocket arsenal is nowhere near as large as Hamas.

You are absolutely correct in thinking Hamas' grip on power is far more contingent than most governments. Hamas' control over Gaza is only as good as it can be given their lack of resources and the dysfunctional nature of Gazan society. Accordingly, there are plenty of gangs in Gaza, the most famous of which is the Durmush clan:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doghmush

[bemildred]

24. Effective Paletinian leaders are subject to arbitrary erasure, so there is no incentive

to define a hierarchical power structure. It will just be destroyed. The remedy for concentration of force is dispersal of targets.

And the Israeli government generally likes the Palestinians to be fragmented, except when it wants to have one of these wars of intimidation. Then they would like all the prospective targets to stand together out in some empty field so they can be erased cleanly.

But it appears most of the people they would like to bomb this time are down in the tunnels, hence the high civilian casualty rate.

[kelliekat44]

21. Bloomberg has always been about the bottom line. These folks are just asking for Hamas to prove

that Ben Gurion is vulnerable.

[heaven05]

23. shit

I'm glad he's gone. let him stay there.

[cprise]

25. What I would expect from Mr. Stop-And-Frisk. n/t

[yurbud]

27. since he is now a private citizen, why should anyone care?

[Gore1FL]

30. It's not exactly defiance if he is flying El Al.

The FAA doesn't make rules for them.