Vandals hit Oakland businesses during Occupy march

[alp227]

Source: SF Chronicle

Police are searching for vandals responsible for damage done to several downtown Oakland businesses during a weekly Occupy Oakland march Saturday night.

Police said four windows were broken and paint was sprayed at five businesses in the Oakland City Center retail and business plaza, including Starbucks, Patelco Credit Union, Scottrade, Quiznos and Savoy Bail Bonds.

Vandals also spray-painted a Wells Fargo Bank branch and the Clorox building along Broadway, police said.

Police said officers at the scene saw people wearing black clothing and backpacks vandalize the buildings, but then retreat into the crowd of marchers before they could be arrested.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/01/MNTH1NTCF5.DTL

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Black clothing and backpacks? Can anyone say agent provocateur?

[annabanana]

1. Did they check on the whereabouts

of ALL their officers?.. Was ICE in the neighborhood? CIA? FBI?

[drm604]

2. Black Bloc

This is either some true idiots (a tiny minority of the crowd) or agent provocateurs, possibly police.

[freshwest]

4. Chris Hedges did a piece on the black bloc. They are not police:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002274958

Although that would be a reasonable assumption.

[drm604]

9. Yea, I read that article when it first came out,

and in this case it is likely that these were true black bloc.

Regarding the possibility of it being police or some other agent provocateurs; it wasn't all that many years ago that I would have considered that to be tinfoil hat stuff. Then that incident in Canada occurred where it was clear that the troublemakers (who reportedly were trying to egg on the protesters to commit violence) were wearing police issued boots, and the police were eventually forced to admit that they were undercover agents because it was obvious to the public that no one was being charged. Since then I've been much more cynical.

[freshwest]

10. I saw that too, and it was the well-organized and knowledgeable union people who put a stop to that.

That's why I was surprised at Chris Hedge's piece; I had guessed they were all AG's or undercover officers. I guess the part I don't get is why Occupy is allowing them to slip into their ranks.

In the Vietnam era, we had some of those, especially in the very large mobilizations. When you have tens of thousands of people, a lot happnens on the periphery.

These Occupy demonstrations are now smaller, and they seem to be organized and in contact with each other more in real time than we were. In the past we were organized out of college campuses, union halls, churches and political parties. We carefully planned our behavior and strategy before we left.

I simply cannot see this as being part of the core message of OWS, I cannot believe that Occupy in their assemblies condone this. Although they are billed as a leaderless group, we pretty much were, too. Perhaps we had more luxury of planning than Occupy does. I'm not sure what's going on here but it is diverting from the message and allowing more police action on peaceful protestors.

[2banon]

11. well, you might recall the violence that did occur during the VN protests..but

it was a mix of "anarchists" types and agent provocateurs, and the CIA and FBI did infiltrate many organizations such as SDS and others as well as the free press.. there was plenty of vandolism in some communities. It's a mixed bag, and unfortunately the M$M is also infiltrated and OWNED by the 1% so the coverage is going to be negative and largely devoid of facts and historical context.

There is a genuine "Black Block" , terribly misguided and cowardly imo. They use Occupy as cover both figuratively and physically. They would argue that it's others that are misguided for not taking the action they do.

it is frustrating.

[freshwest]

3. Question: Have any of these guys EVER been arrested by LEO's?

Why do they let them 'slip away' every single time, and why do they not pursue?

It's not like the PD there have refused to get 'up close and personal' with anyone else in the vicinity of an Occupy group anywhere, anytime.

And that being said, I have another question:

Why aren't members of Occupy getting hold of these guys and handing them over to police or running them out of the crowd, at least?

That's what we used to do with bad actors in the past, you know, 'back in the day.'

This needs to be addressed by someone in OO and resolved so that the message is reported and not the crimes these guys are committing.

[Ian David]

5. IIRC, Occupy has helped LEO arrest Blac Bloc members. But I could be wrong.

I'm certain that I remember seeing a YouTube video giving instructions on how Occupiers should behave to isolate Blac Bloc and help LEO arrest them.

And I'm pretty sure I remember reading that they've successfully done that.

[FailureToCommunicate]

6. Yep, you could usually tell the 'bad actors' by their new denim threads from Sears

Stood out like a neon sign.

[freshwest]

7. We went by their threats to burn things down and kill the pigs.

Usually they expected to be bailed out by their folks after they pissed off the cops until the rest of us got teargassed. For them, it was just a game.

For most of us, that kind of behavior was a luxury we could not afford. If we got jailed, we would not be able to make bail. And then we'd lose our jobs if we had one and we were living from paycheck to paycheck.

The big talkers and provocateurs didn't have much to lose and they talked a lot about raising hell and doing violence. We practiced and rehearsed how to be non-violent, no matter what happened. If they didn't want that, we discouraged them from being with us.

As far as jeans from Sears, I'm not sure where you're coming from. Thinking back, by today's standard we were a bit ratty looking. Because for the most part we wore our work clothes, t-shirt and blue jeans, not new, if that's what you mean.

I think these guys wear black and baclavas, etc. We didn't do that, so this is a different thing.

[FailureToCommunicate]

17. It was shorthand back then. Quoting Zappa's line questioned authenticity

Was the person for real or fake. Were they with us or infiltrator plants. You're correct though, after the look of the 'new (fake) Sears poncho... if they started talking about offing the pigs or burning stuff, we looked much stricter at their motivations...

[slackmaster]

8. No True Occupater would ever do anything illegal

[BeHereNow]

12. My first thought- "agent provocateurs"

They are so obvious at this point it is silly.
BHN

[sabrina 1]

14. Several times Occupiers caught cops dressed up as 'protestors' in the beginning of the movement.

There were photos eg, of two cops who had been spotted getting out of a van, wearing blue jeans and mingling with the crowd. The Occupiers just kept an eye on them and eventually followed them back to the van. It was funny actually. The photos were posted on the internet. Then there was another incident where occupiers became suspicious of another two 'protesters'. They mingled but did not interact with the crowd. Protestors also followed them and saw them using a key to let themselves into the Fed Building. I have it in one of my OPs somewhere.

They have probably become smarter now and are dressing in black, eg. I have zero doubt that the police are infiltrating the movement. There was another incident where protesters saw a couple of cops in uniform and recognized one of them as a 'protester' who had been hanging around the encampment for a while. When caught, he claimed he wasn't trying to be undercover and supported the movement in his free time!

[joshcryer]

15. The "agents provocateurs" claim is used by real agents to divide and conquer.

Be careful using it.

[BeHereNow]

16. LOL... thanks for your concern. I will be VERY careful. n/t

BHN

[-..__...]

13. Think things are bad now?

Wait until they lose interest with their iPad 3's then the trouble will really begin.

[snooper2]

18. I love how you guys scream "agent provocateur" at every turn...

At just about every protest you've got the hard-core "truthy" fringe folks there. Even before the Iraq war we were marching in downtown Dallas and some assholes (about 4) were bumping into everyone, screaming at people in parked cars, getting into people's faces on the sidewalk screaming "NO BLOOD FOR OIL", not following the chant at the time...

Some people would call them "passionate", I just called them fucking assholes...


Deal with it. Maybe some of the other "occupiers" can throw down a little ass smackdown on your crazy element and you wouldn't have these issues.