Russian Tanks Flatten Ukrainian Town, Ukraine Military Says

[bemildred]

Source: Reuters

KIEV (Reuters) - Ukraine's military said on Saturday its forces had pulled out of areas to the east of the border-area city of Luhansk under pressure from Russian-backed rebels and that Russian tanks had been used to "destroy virtually every house" in one small town.

"Direct military aggression against eastern Ukraine is continuing," Kiev's defense and security council said in a separate Twitter post.

A group of pro-Ukrainian fighters broke out of encirclement by Russian-backed separatists near the eastern city of Donetsk early on Saturday, Ukraine's interior minister said, but other reports suggested many were still trapped.

Fighting has intensified in areas near the small town of Ilovaysk and further south along the Sea of Azov coast where separatists are now threatening the port city of Mariupol.



Read more: http://www.newsweek.com/russian-tanks-flatten-ukrainian-town-ukraine-military-says-267710

[bemildred]

1. Ukraine: Fighter jet shot down by missile

KIEV, Ukraine -- Ukrainian forces say one of their fighter jets has been shot down by a Russian missile in combat against Russia-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine.

A brief statement posted Saturday on the Facebook page for the so-called operation against separatists said the Su-25 was hit on Friday, and that the pilot ejected and was uninjured. The statement said the plane was hit by a missile from a Russian launcher, but did not give more detail.

NATO estimates that at least 1,000 Russian soldiers are in Ukraine and Kiev claimed this week that Russian tanks and armored vehicles entered the country as rebels open a new front along the Azov Sea coast. Russia consistently denies both that its forces are in Ukraine and allegations that it is supplying the rebels.

Until this week, the fighting had been concentrated well inland. But rebels this week took control of the town of Novoazovsk with the apparent aim of pushing further west along the coast which connects Russia to the Russia-annexed Crimean Peninsula.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-forces-say-russian-missile-shoots-down-fighter-jet/

[bemildred]

2. EU to slap new sanctions on Russia over Ukraine

BRUSSELS (AP) -- A top European Union official said Saturday that the 28-nation bloc is set to decide new sanctions against Russia as Ukraine's president warned the conflict with Moscow threatens peace and stability for Europe as a whole.

Ukraine's Petro Poroshenko said a strong EU response is needed because his country is subject to "military aggression and terror" with thousands of Russian troops and hundreds of tanks in eastern Ukraine.

EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said before an EU leaders' summit in Brussels that "sanctions are not and end in themselves" but a means to dissuade Russia from further destabilizing Ukraine.

Russia denies any military involvement in the fighting that has so far claimed 2,600 lives, according to U.N. figures.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_UKRAINE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-08-30-07-14-46

[bemildred]

3. Finnish Prime Minister: “EU leaders won't set new sanctions on Russia”

Baku. Rufat Ahmadzada – APA. European Union leaders would not decide on new sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine crisis at an EU summit in Brussels on Saturday, said Finnish Prime Minister Alexander Stubb, APA reports quoting Reuters.

"It is clear we will discuss new sanctions as the situation has changed in the last few days. But we will not decide on any new sanctions today," Stubb said.

Note that, the 28-nation bloc's heads of state and government have met in Brussels to discuss the situation in Ukraine and the issues related to the UN structure.

http://en.apa.az/news/215671

[bemildred]

38. Russia effectively at war with EU -Lithuanian president

BRUSSELS, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Russia is at war with Ukraine and so effectively at war with Europe, Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite said on Saturday, calling on Europe to supply Kiev with military equipment.

"It is the fact that Russia is in a war state against Ukraine. That means it is in a state of war against a country which would like to be closely integrated with the EU. Practically Russia is in a state of war against Europe," she told reporters in English as she arrived for an EU summit.

"That means we need to help Ukraine to ... defend its territory and its people and to help militarily, especially with the military materials to help Ukraine to defend itself because today Ukraine is fighting a war on behalf of all Europe," the leader of the former Soviet state said.

http://www.trust.org/item/20140830135239-tgesn/

[OnlinePoker]

69. Sounds like Russia has its next target.

Sigh.

[davidpdx]

78. I do wonder about that

Assuming Russia is successful and then annexes Ukraine, what next?

Invade Crimea, annex Crimea
Invade Ukraine, annex Ukraine
Invade ??

There are plenty of other countries Russia could claim have ethnic minorities they are trying to protect.

[OnlinePoker]

79. Brighton Beach?

During the late 30's Hitler did the same thing regarding German speaking peoples. Had he been stopped when he first went into the Rhineland, it's unlikely WW2 would have happened. But Russia isn't an (relatively) unarmed country like Germany was at the time so any retaliatory moves now by the EU or States could get very bloody. I don't like where this is going, but don't see how it can be stopped without Putin just deciding to stop it. Satayana is screaming his words from the grave but nobody is listening.

[bemildred]

4. Russia demands for MH17 black box data to be published

Russia is demanding to know why international investigators have yet to publish the black box data from a Malaysian airliner that crashed in eastern Ukraine in July.

298 passengers and crew were killed when the Boeing 777 was shot down.

Russia has blamed Ukraine for the incident.

However, Ukraine says the jet was shot down by pro-Russian separatists.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0830/640324-russia-demands-for-mh17-data-to-be-published/

[bemildred]

5. Moscow Calls for ‘Humanitarian Bridge’ Uniting Russia, Luhansk, Donetsk - Defense Ministry

MOSCOW, August 30 (RIA Novosti) - Russia cannot remain indifferent to the events unfolding in eastern Ukraine which led to a humanitarian catastrophe in the region, so that Moscow is calling for a so-called “humanitarian bridge” which will unite Russia with the violence-torn regions of Luhansk and Donetsk, Russia’s Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov said Saturday in an interview with Slovak television.

“We cannot be indifferent toward what is happening in southeastern Ukraine. We see the humanitarian catastrophe there. These are not my words, but the statements of the United Nations representatives,” Antonov said.

“In this situation, we could not stay aside. And our civic organizations, businessmen, emergencies ministry are thinking about the organization of not just one humanitarian aid convoy, but the second, third, tenth ones. We want to have a normal humanitarian bridge uniting the Russian Federation, Luhansk and Donetsk,” Antonov added.

Earlier in August, Russia sent the first humanitarian convoy of 280 trucks carrying 2,000 tons of aid to the troubled Luhansk region. The passage of the convoy was significantly delayed and Moscow said Kiev was deliberately dragging on the aid delivery “in order to create a situation so that there is no one to be helped.”Kiev accused Moscow of sending weapons to the self-defense forces in Ukraine along with the humanitarian aid.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140830/192482853/Moscow-Calls-for-Humanitarian-Bridge-Uniting-Russia-Luhansk.html

[geek tragedy]

11. And there it is--conquest and annexation.

Those who have assumed the worst about Putin's motives have been very accurate in predicting his behavior .

[bemildred]

13. Yeah, brilliant foresight and strategizing going on, that's clear for everyone to see. nt

[geek tragedy]

17. More of a case where less thinking produces

a clearer view of the picture. Far right militarism and nationalism as a combination is pretty predictable--it goes as far as its armed forces can advance.

[bemildred]

18. Yes, thinking too much will definitely get you all confused. nt

[geek tragedy]

19. Certainly it did for those who thought

he wouldn't invade and annex East Ukraine.

The question is where does Ukraine put its firewall and in how many years are there NATO tanks present to defend the new border.

[bemildred]

21. Yeah, they are definitely dumb asses. nt

[geek tragedy]

22. Not dumb, quite the contrary.

People of a modern mindset will sometimes be at a loss when dealing with those who have a medieval one.

[bemildred]

23. And vice versa. nt

[geek tragedy]

24. Certainly in the long run medievalists

lack a coherent strategy.

Putin's gamble has been economic, not military. Gamble is that Europeans would not see the redrawing of borders within Europe as an urgent enough affair to be worth the economic pain to address the matter. So far that looks like a losing bet.

[bemildred]

26. Putin is not gambling.

He will take what he wants now, thanks to the ATO morons in Kiev and their military fantasies.
The EU will blather and blink.
And that's the good version.

[geek tragedy]

28. That's certainly the medieval outcome.

Strong king conquers, modern cowards cower.

Europe has recognized that as expensive as isolating Russia would be, validating and enabling aggressive wars of conquest by the expansionist empire on its doorstep is not an acceptable option.

Dependence on medieval states like Russia and Saudi Arabia for energy is a strategic failure- that is recognized now.

The real question for the US is preventing Russia from grabbing the Arctic.

[bemildred]

29. Russian forces rejected in Ukraine

See? This is what the EU has to say:

The situation in Ukraine “has worsened considerably” European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said in a joint press conference with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in Brussels.

“The opening of new fronts and use of regular Russian forces is not acceptable and represents a grave transgression,” Barroso said.

---

“Ukraine now is a subject for foreign military aggression and terror,” he said. But European leaders have shown their support for Ukraine, he said, and Russian aggression will not go unanswered.

Barroso said he had urged Russia’s President Vladimir Putin to “change course” in a phone call Friday.

“No one’s interest is served by new wars on our continent, no one’s interest is served by confrontation,” he said. “This is simply not the way that responsible, proud nations should behave in the 21st century.”

http://dailyindependentnig.com/2014/08/russia-forces-rejected-ukraine/

Drivel. I am always amazed at people who blather on endlessly about how so-and-so is an evil dictator and then are surprised when so-and-so behaves accordingly.

[geek tragedy]

34. Multilateralism is always more clunky and hesitant

than unilateralism. The EU requires a great deal of it to scratch its nose on foreign policy.

Long-term, Russia will be economically and politically and culturally considered to be separate from Europe. And thus will have to go hat in hand to other power centers for such ties.

As the joke goes, in 500 years there will be border disputes between Ukraine and China.

[bemildred]

39. All the more reason not to be pursuing a fatuous foreign policy. nt

[geek tragedy]

46. Fatuous is in the eye of the beholder. nt

[bemildred]

48. Fatuous based on its results. nt

[geek tragedy]

55. Sometimes there is no possibility of good results nt

[bemildred]

57. Right. "Who could have predicted this?" nt

[geek tragedy]

59. "Who could have prevented it?"

Certainly NATO membership for what's left of Ukraine should be on the table, with Russia required to make concessions to take it off. The only thing that has a track record of curbing Russian aggression is NATO tanks.

The comparison of Ukraine vs Baltics is instructive

[bemildred]

64. Apparently not anybody in our foreign policy establishment. nt

[geek tragedy]

68. Very many things are beyond our control. nt

[ballyhoo]

43. Yes. Kieve orchestrated their own downfall and we

know who is to blame. Putin will take what he wants using the IS fiasco as cover. Europe won't do anything, and the US can't do anything in the shape it is in. Hopefully, the neocon checkerboard strategy will have been blocked enough that it itself will be reduced in power. I just wonder when Obama will come to Putin asking for help in repulsing IS, which has grown into an amazingly powerful movement in such a short time. How did they do that is the question?

[OnlinePoker]

70. Europe can't do anything

They rely on Russian natural gas and winter is coming. That's a big stick Putin can wave over their heads.

[ballyhoo]

71. I know but I didn't what to be too negative.

[bemildred]

6. Russian-backed separatists aim to push west along Ukraine's coast

NOVOAZOVSK, Ukraine -- Their tanks bearing the flag of their would-be state, Russian-backed separatists held control Friday over this coastal town on the new front in the Ukraine conflict and announced their intention to keep pushing west toward a major port city.

None of the half-dozen tanks seen by Associated Press reporters in the town of about 12,000 people bore Russian markings, but the packaging on their field rations said they were issued by the Russian army.

The Ukrainian government the day before accused Russia of sending tanks, artillery and troops across the border, and NATO estimated at least 1,000 Russian troops were in Ukraine.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/russian-backed-separatists-aim-to-push-west-along-ukraine-s-coast-1.1983950

[HereSince1628]

10. I suspect linking Crimea to Odesa was an objective from the beginning n/t

[bemildred]

12. This has all been obvious from the beginning. nt

[HereSince1628]

14. Yes, all part of "Venture Nationalism"

You take over the parts of nations with positive value and leave the rest to turn into a vassal territory because it can't support itself.

[bemildred]

15. Dumb as a box of rocks.

Last edited Sun Aug 31, 2014, 10:31 AM - Edit history (1)

It is always a mistake to pick fights you are going to lose.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. It's still another 150 miles from Mariupol to Crimea

That's a lot of obvious invading the Russians will have to do, in an area that so far has had no support for Donetsk-style rebellion.

[bemildred]

27. I am sure they are up to it.

It's going to take more than pompous moralizing from here on out.

[newthinking]

30. I posted about this several days ago. There is no avoiding the war expanding. We are naive when it

comes to understanding war. We fight them from overseas which makes a different dynamic.

There are only three resolutions to the war:

1. Kiev suppresses the rebels.
2. A compromise or passive mutual agreement to stop hostilities
3. The rebels march into Ukraine proper and continue to expand until there is nobody to fight them.

Even though the rebels may only be interested in "Novorussiya", they can't just secure it and then proceed to be bombed for the next year. If there is not a peace resolution they *have* to move forward. It is the nature of war.

A Ukrainian friend of mine said this to me some time back and it shocked me and I argued with him and told him that would contradict the claim that Novorossiya was a defensive formation... until I realized he was simply stating the reality of war and I was naive to think that there was any other choice.

[bemildred]

31. Number one is not on the table any more, if it ever was.

I doubt number three is either, that would be stupid, they won't be welcome there, but you never know what an army will do when it gets a head of steam up.

[newthinking]

35. So now the column are not Russian forces, but "russian backed" seperatists.

The reporting is confusing as hell.

[bemildred]

41. Please see post #33.

Yeah it's confusing, sometimes that is the intent even.

[bemildred]

7. Pro-Ukraine fighters escape encirclement, others still trapped - Kiev, militia

KIEV, Aug 30 (Reuters) - A group of pro-Ukrainian fighters broke out of encirclement by Russian-backed separatists near the eastern city of Donetsk early on Saturday, Ukraine's interior minister said, but other reports suggested many were still trapped.

Fighting has intensified in areas near the small town of Ilovaysk and further south along the Sea of Azov coast where separatists are now threatening the port city of Mariupol.

Kiev and Western countries say the reversal is the result of the arrival of armoured columns of Russian troops, sent by Russian President Vladimir Putin to prop up the five-month-old separatist revolt in eastern Ukraine which had been near collapse.

A senior U.N. human rights official said on Friday nearly 2,600 civilians, Ukrainian government forces and rebels have been killed in a conflict which has led to the biggest Russia-West crisis since the Cold War.

http://www.trust.org/item/20140830100821-n43s1/

[newthinking]

32. pictures? The last picture were of 7 pieces of equiptment, which does not equate to the claims

If there are major armored weaponry moving in there would be ample evidence to show, that is not something easily hidden.

Our media is so poor with it's reporting. Just repeating what Kyiv or the rebels say does not make a "Fact". It simply proves that somebody said something.

[bemildred]

33. It really doesn't pay to obsess about the details too much. nt

[newthinking]

36. Considering this has the capacity to break into nuclear war

the real facts are kind of important. Just wish the press would realize that and stop reporting claims at least close to verifiable...

[ballyhoo]

45. Yeah, you would think they would realize they

themselves are helping foment a nuclear war.

[EX500rider]

83. Like these kind of pictures?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29009516

[bemildred]

37. 28 volunteer soldiers trapped in Ukrainian town by separatists escape, officials say

MARIUPOL, Ukraine — A group of Ukrainian volunteer soldiers managed to escape Saturday from Ilovaysk, a southeastern town that has been besieged by pro-Russian separatists for almost a week, Ukrainian officials said.

Ukraine’s interior minister, Arsen Avakov, announced that 28 of the more than 200 fighters trapped in the town had escaped, but the military did not explain how that had been accomplished — or offer details about plans to evacuate the rest of the troops.

“There’s an operation to withdraw our military from there,” spokesman Col. Andriy Lysenko said Saturday. “The major task now is to evacuate our military with the least losses.”

The soldiers have been cornered in the town since Monday, surrounded by separatists they say have been freshly supplied with troops and high-tech weapons from Russia. Food and ammunition have dwindled, and the death toll has been mounting.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/28-volunteer-soldiers-trapped-in-ukrainian-town-by-separatists-escape-officials-say/2014/08/30/bea0daae-304c-11e4-9b98-848790384093_story.html

[bemildred]

42. Russian Diplomats in Ukraine Freed, Return Home - Moscow

MOSCOW, August 30 (RIA Novosti) – The Russian embassy employees detained earlier in Kiev have been freed and returned to Russia, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Saturday.

“As a result of considerable efforts, two employees of the Russian Federation embassy to Ukraine, who ensured the safety of the foreign establishment and were detained in Kiev, have been freed today and returned to their home country,” the ministerial statement said.

On Friday, the Russian Foreign Ministry reported that two embassy employees were detained “under false pretext in Kiev.” According to the ministry, the diplomats were detained as they were leaving a cafe in Kiev on Thursday on allegations that they had grenades.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140830/192484904/Russian-Diplomats-in-Ukraine-Freed-Return-Home---Moscow.html

[bemildred]

8. Ukrainian plane with seven on board crashes in Algeria

Equatorial Guinea?

A Ukrainian cargo plane carrying seven people crashed in southern Algeria on Saturday after taking off from Tamanrasset airport, an Algerian transport ministry official said, adding that six Ukrainians and one Russian were on board.

The Antonov-12 civilian cargo plane, en route to Equatorial Guinea, crashed at 2:40am local time (GMT+1), the official said, adding that three burned bodies had been found at the crash site.

State news agency APS reported that the plane, a four-engine turboprop aircraft introduced in the 1950s, went down in a mountainous area south of the Tamanrasset airport after making a stopover for unspecified technical reasons.

http://www.france24.com/en/20140830-ukrainian-antonov-cargo-plane-crashes-algeria/

[bemildred]

9. . nt

[bemildred]

67. 7 die as Ukraine plane crashes in Sahara: Algeria

ALGIERS: A Ukrainian cargo plane crashed in the Sahara desert early on Saturday, killing all seven people on board, Algeria's transport ministry said.

The Antonov 12, which had come from Glasgow in Scotland and was bound for Equatorial Guinea, came down near Tamanrasset airport at around 2:40 am (0140 GMT), a ministry statement said.

"Unfortunately, rescue teams did not find any survivors at the scene of the crash," the statement added.

The aircraft had been transporting petroleum industry equipment. It had made a stopover for unspecified technical reasons at Tamanrasset, an Algerian city deep in the Sahara 2,000 kilometres (1,240 miles) south of Algiers.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/7-die-as-ukraine-plane-crashes-in-sahara-algeria/articleshow/41280770.cms

[Chasstev365]

16. LET EUROPE HANDLE THIS ONE!

Of course they won't and the Republican Hawks like McCain will throw a fit blaming President Obama, but dam it, we can no longer be the policemen of the world!

[another_liberal]

20. "The bastards!"

"They're shooting back!"

[TwilightGardener]

44. LOL. I hope Ukraine sends home some plastic-wrapped "little green men" so that

Russia can secretly bury them in makeshift graves again. Ukraine isn't invading Russia, it's the other way around. You seem confused.

[another_liberal]

73. Killing more people . . .

Of course that's the answer!



(of course it's satire)

[EX500rider]

84. Unfortunately rolling over & letting Russia conquer eastern Ukraine...

....doesn't seem like something Ukraine wants either.

[bemildred]

40. Poroshenko hopes for success at gas talks between Ukraine, Russia, EU

Brussels - Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko is sure that the gas talks in the Ukraine-Russia-EU format will be successful.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/poroshenko-hopes-for-success-at-gas-talks-between-ukraine-russia-eu-362708.html

[reorg]

47. Gorbachev on Kiev’s military op: 'It must be stopped immediately'

Ex-Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev has urged Kiev to bring their military operation in eastern regions to an end. Russia, he added, is doing the right thing by keeping away from interfering with the neighboring country, thus saving thousands of lives.

...

“If [other] states get involved, the scope may widen and everyone would want a hand there – we may end up with a terrible slaughter in Europe,” he said. “We can’t afford it.”

Gorbachev also praised Russia’s policy of staying away from direct engagement, commenting on the accusations coming from the West that Moscow has started a “military intervention.”

“If our country intervenes, such a fire could break out that the whole world wouldn’t be able to put it out. And it is right that the politicians are upholding their position,” Gorbachev said.

http://rt.com/news/183924-russia-gorbachev-ukraine-military/

[bemildred]

49. Thanks, I've been trying to find what he said. nt

[reorg]

50. 'Kiev, rise up!' Protesters demand ouster of Ukrainian president, defense minister

Hundreds of people have gathered in front of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry in Kiev, demanding resignation of President Petro Poroshenko and the defense minister over the poor handling of the military operation in the southeast.

The demonstrators, many of whom were mothers and wives of the soldiers involved in the fighting in the Donetsk and Lugansk Regions, have blocked traffic at one of the capital’s arterial roads, the Vozdukhoflotsky Boulevard.



http://on.rt.com/b7w98d

[ballyhoo]

56. I wondered when this would happen. Who will the West pick as

his replacement?

[reorg]

58. another "insider" perhaps?

Perhaps not everyone was outet in the diplomatic cables.

[ballyhoo]

61. My call also. Maybe a

butcher or a blacksmith this time.

[cosmicone]

60. Victoria Nuland said she is not interested

She said it was due to a lack of adequate glue ... but she offered a truckload of cookies instead.

[ballyhoo]

63. If this keeps going and ends up the

way I think it will, Nuland will wish she was never born. People should just take care of their own houses unless that house is attacked.

[cosmicone]

65. Yeah ... from a Proper noun

of Nuland to a common noun to a verb is not that far off.

"Let's not be Nuland about it" or "Let's go Nuland country X"

[ballyhoo]

66. Very good, cosmicone. I just incorporated that. New

trouble in Syria now. UN attacked.

[EX500rider]

85. I could have sworn the current president won an election, and thus was picked by Ukrainians...

.....or was Nuland handing out cookies to voters to buy their vote?

[7962]

72. Hilarious! Another Baghdad Bob, in reverse.

[bemildred]

51. Ukraine: Poroshenko claims foreign troops put peace at risk

Ukraine’s military says it has pulled out of areas east of rebel stronghold Luhansk under pressure from pro-Russian rebels who have, according to a military spokesman, received fresh supplies.

Ukraine’s president, Petro Poroshenko, has condemned what he alleges is Russian intervention in his country.

“We have a worsening the situation from August 27 and thousands of foreign troops and hundreds of foreign tanks are now on Ukraine’s territory,” said Poroshenko ahead of a summit meeting of EU leaders in Brussels.

“This poses a very high risk not only for the peace and stability for Ukraine but for the peace and stability in the whole of Europe,” he added.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/08/30/ukraine-poroshenko-claims-foreign-troops-put-peace-at-risk/

[newthinking]

74. So position the troops defensively ;call a truce and at least pause to see what happens

The idiocy of war politicians.

They can always re-engage if necessary. But why wouldn't you want to stop and make an attempt to find a solution. Borders can sometimes be really shitty things. Some of the innocents may prefer to live and take their chances under another border? Especially given that border will not be all that different of a place to them?

This all could have been settled with the east simply being a federalized state months ago, but you always get these gung ho sideline strategists that could care less about innocent dead bodies.

History and consequences. Everything that has happened would be completely predicatable. Just like Iraq and all the other places that are now on fire.

[bemildred]

52. Lawmaker probing Russian soldier deaths in Ukraine attacked: party

MOSCOW A Russian opposition lawmaker who attended the secret funeral of a soldier apparently killed in Ukraine was in hospital Saturday after what he said was a politically motivated attack.

Speaking from his hospital bed, Lev Shlosberg, who had been investigating Russian soldiers’ presence in Ukraine, linked the assault late Friday to his probe.

He told AFP some 100 paratroopers based in his northwestern town of Pskov had been killed in combat in Ukraine.

“An entire company was killed,” the 51-year-old leader of a regional branch of the opposition party Yabloko told AFP by telephone, citing figures given to him by the soldiers’ families.

http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/lawmaker-probing-russian-soldier-deaths-in-ukraine-attacked-party-1.1378489

[reorg]

53. Perhaps this brings a sigh of relief

I posted this already in another thread - don't mean to spam, but this is too good:

Former German Green MoP Hans Josef Fell links to article in Ukrainian press (ELISE.COM.UA)

Google translation:

Pivdenmash gives Russia 5 days for withdrawal, otherwise it will be left without a nuclear shield

Pivdenmash said, if Russia does not take away his mercenaries and will not release all of the city for 5 days, then they will give all the information regarding the so-called nuclear protection of Russia to NATO and the United States together with all codes and frequencies for track and destroy missiles !!!

The Russians may not be aware of, but thanks only to Ukraine, Russia has this nuclear defense, 85% of which Ukraine can block!

Reference:

State Enterprise "Production Association" Yuzhny Machine-Building Plant "named after AM Makarov" (Pivdenmash) - large Ukrainian companies for the production of rocket and space technology and other high-tech products, located in Dnepropetrovsk.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Felise.com.ua%2F%3Fp%3D32566&edit-text=

Unbelievable that a newspaper would actually publish this, but a prominent member of the Greens (he actually was in the Bundestag Defense Committee) buying into this in his fervor to please Transatlantic Big Brother is just nuts. In addition, he avers that the number of the "invasion force" is said to be 15000 in Ukraine.

[newthinking]

75. If this is true is it not also another indication of how seriously "regime change" has threatened

Russia's existence?

[reorg]

77. if it were true

but whatever these codes are supposed to be, if the Russians were to leave some sort of essential, sensitive information in the hands of a Ukrainian company, they'd probably deserve to lose it.

[quadrature]

54. does word 'flexible' translate properly into Russian language?

just curious as to what happened.

[cosmicone]

62. Ukraine is yelling, "The inevitable is happening!"

"How did we misjudge this mess?"

[newthinking]

76. +1

That is what happens with having neocons in places where they can start fires.

Imagine the world if we had people that believed in things like a "Department of Peace". How different the world would look. The scenario would be much different and I have no doubt that not only would thousands less civilians be dead, but worldwide borders and governments would look even less threatening.

War and Neocon policies simply don't work. Trying to passify the world through regime change doesn't work.

[elias49]

80. Thanx to Bemil and Geek for an amazing analysis

I confess I didn't know squat about the Russia/Ukraine issue before the back and forth that highlights this thread. Excellent analyses, nuanced arguments and more information than I thought even existed re: this complex clusterfuck. Kudos to both posters. You both seem to be foreign policy experts here. And I'm not being sarcastic. That said, while I didn't know shit before, I understand even less now! Woe is me.

[bemildred]

81. We do get a bit obsessive about things here sometimes.

[Nye Bevan]

82. But... but... the Russian troops probably crossed the border accidentally.

And somehow mistakenly flattened a town. And somehow the EU and Obama is to blame. And Putin is an all-around good guy.

[Sunlei]

86. what happened to all the people? heres the map, a fairly lg. town surrounded by miles of grain field

train tracks and not many roads at all. when you look at the few roads Ukraine to/from Russia the main road (use street view) on russias side has all the trees on roadsides painted fresh white. very odd, like the road for russias military to use is marked.

https://www.google.com

drop in "ilovaysk, Ukraine"