Kobane: Civilians flee IS street-to-street fighting

[flamingdem]

Source: BBC

Islamic State's black flag has been seen above Kobane for the first time, reports Paul Adams

Islamic State (IS) militants have entered the key Syria-Turkey border town of Kobane and are engaged in street-to-street fighting with Syrian Kurd defenders.

IS fighters entered eastern districts, raising their black flag on buildings and high ground.

Hundreds of civilians are reported to be fleeing to the Turkish border.

Taking Kobane, besieged for three weeks, would give IS control of a long stretch of the Syrian-Turkish border.

More than 160,000 Syrians, mainly Kurds, have fled the town.

Earlier a local official in Kobane, Idriss Nassan, told the BBC that the town would "certainly fall soon".



Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29515431

---

The Turks are as cynical as hell and see this as an opportunity to vanquish the Kurds.

Jenan Moussa ‏@jenanmoussa 6h5 hours ago

Turkish authorities have now arrested kurdish activist Mustafa Bali as he fled to Turkey trying 2 escape ISIS onslaught on #kobane.

[George II]

1. "The Turks are as cynical as hell and see this as an opportunity to vanquish the Kurds."

Who is the cynic here?

[flamingdem]

2. Are you a Turkey supporter vs. a Kurd supporter?

Their treatment of the Kurds appears to be abominable, not only that they tear gassed and intimidated the press (the Turkish police).

They may hate the Kurds but they're doing zero to prevent a bloodbath.

I'm sure they have their reasons.

[George II]

3. Both.

[George II]

36. "Turkey calls for ground invasion of Kobane to stop Isil"

You were saying??????

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11146053/Turkey-calls-for-ground-invasion-of-Kobane-to-stop-Isil.html

[flamingdem]

38. Question is if they just want a no fly zone thus

screwing the Kurds. The Kurds won't agree to it in exchange. Guessing.

[TwilightGardener]

4. From what I've gathered in reading, the US and allies don't see this city

as a good strategic target for us to spend our time/resources on, but we're doing airstrikes near it anyway to help the Kurds because Turkey won't do a damn thing.

[flamingdem]

6. Yes, I'm seeing that and figure they feel more is needed in Iraq

I read somewhere that Kobane was a distraction from cities in Iraq.

Still it's infuriating that this happened after the airstrikes started. Seems like an easy enough target but maybe reports of Isis tanks is greatly exaggerated. That means the airstrikes can only damage basic vehicles and staging areas. Not that much damage and Isis not much deterred. It would have taken Turkish tanks probably and they won't do it.

[cali]

28. say what? EVERYTHING I've read contradicts that

Here are some links:

http://time.com/3476929/isis-syria-kobani-is-isil/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/oct/07/islamic-state-fighters-battle-kurdish-militia-for-kobani-live-updates

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/islamic-state-raises-flag-key-city-syria-turkish-border-article-1.1964918


Could you link to what you've been reading that contradicts what I've posted? Virtually, EVERY article on this refers to Kobani as a "key" city.

[TwilightGardener]

31. I read that generally our strikes are meant to reduce their capabilities, rather than

trying to save Kurds/whoever or kill fighters or save individual towns and cities, especially in Syria--our activity in Syria is different than what we're doing in Iraq. I think it was on CNN that a defense official groused that everyone's paying attention to Kobane because reporters are there (it's right on the border with Turkey, which allows far more access to the situation than somewhere in the middle of Syria).

[cali]

32. it's because of its location that it's of great import. you're just wrong

[TwilightGardener]

33. If it's of great import to our military campaign, we'll have special forces and other assets

in the area.

[quadrature]

5. how big of a massacre is acceptable?

10K
100k
1Mil
?

please be as specific as possible

[ballyhoo]

7. No massacre is acceptable. If not for Obama's feckless strategy to attack now instead of before

all hell broke loose, the citizens of Kobani will pay dearly, and it makes the US look like cowards. Was the action in Syria done simply as a desperate pre-election ploy? Looks that way to me. Or something even worse.

[flamingdem]

10. LOL you just listed today's Republican talking points

!!

[ballyhoo]

13. Then maybe there is something to them. What is with this take 3 or 4 terrorists out

with a jet strike? Makes absolutely no sense. I now understand why Panetta says this will be a 30-years war. So you agree with Obama's plan of action? You agree with the switch to Longbows? Did the Saudis buy ISIS a few Havocs or Kamovs?

[flamingdem]

19. Yes, the overkill and waste of money is bothersome but I support 100% keeping American

troops out.

The ME seems to really need US leadership. After what we've done over there I think we owe to them to help. I don't think it's backfiring, I think it's about what they expected. Bandaids but buying time for the Iraqis to get their act together and to arm the Kurds, and maybe the Sunnis who can work with the Iraqis.

I don't think it makes sense to focus on the Gulf states and what they gave Isis. From what I've read it's been indirect via individuals. So now it's in the light. They all have skin in the game so we'll see.

Yes it will take a couple of years. But we should be pulling out after training the Syrians in Jordan. Financial sanctions against Isis should also slow them down.

[ballyhoo]

24. Yes, I do too. But if tactics are actually increasing ISIS enrollment

at 3600 a month, then I wonder if these "bandaids" will simply create an impossible task for the Iraqi troops, who are not real sterling anyway. Course, if this is an election maneuver, it may just work based on the history of this country. We will know in four weeks. "Training the Syrians in Jordan"? Would a Syrian RA even go to Jordan now? I'll ask tomorrow.

[George II]

37. Panetta is no genius calling it a "30 year war", it's already been going on for centuries!

[ballyhoo]

39. Not involving us, it hasn't--

[Cha]

23. And, like the republicons.. everything Pres Obama does is bad but Putin is good. I see who

is "feckless" and it sure as hell ain't Obama.

[flamingdem]

25. I couldn't believe it but the Republicons started blaming Obama for ebola today

Next up is Benghazi-Bola!

Putin sure is quiet. He must be fishing this week

[Cha]

27. And, I find it quite beliveable.. What took them? Ebolaghazi.. not to make light of a

very serious crisis.

Oh I dunno know.. still "laughing" about the sanctions Pres Obama implemented?

"Putin Clans Said Gridlocked Over Arrest as Sanctions Bite"

snip//

Russia's ruling elite is convulsing as the economy careens toward recession, the ruble hovers near a record low and the conflict in Ukraine pushes the country deeper into a standoff with the U.S and its allies. With oil, Russia's largest export, at a 27-month low and banks increasingly turning to the state for funding, there's less money to go around.

snip//

Heightening the feud between the rival groups is the arrest of billionaire Vladimir Evtushenkov and the legal campaign by prosecutors to nationalize his oil company, OAO Bashneft (BANE), according to the officials.

Evtushenkov, confined to his Moscow mansion since Sept. 16 on allegations of money laundering, is closely aligned with Medvedev and his allies, according to the people. They are at odds with the "siloviki," a group of powerful policymakers that includes men like Putin's chief of staff, Sergei Ivanov, who share a security service background and have worked with the president for decades.

more..
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-clans-said-gridlocked-over-200100294.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

[freshwest]

8. 'The Turks are as cynical as hell and see this as an opportunity to vanquish the Kurds'

It appears that is just what they are doing, and have driven back refugees. And oppressed their own people violently last year. No wonder the EU does not want them. Yes, I know they and the Kurds have a history. Awful.

[flamingdem]

11. I don't know about last year and what happened

but I can only imagine. It was interesting to see that the Kurds are considered the most progressive group in the region. The Kurd women seem pretty formidable.

[freshwest]

15. Here's a little bit of what they did last year, all of these have links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014508189

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014505812

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014501790

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022932338

Quite a lot of comments, pictures, videos of how they treated their people. The way that they acted was described as brutal, authoritarian and also they are losing their rep as a secular country. The stories are quite damning. Their ruler (pres or PM) came out this year saying that women should not be laughing in public. It appears Turkey may be going back to some of its worst days in history, no matter what we want.

[flamingdem]

16. Oh thanks for those, you know I'm trying to catch up and..

wanted to add that I just saw something that blew my mind on CNN.

They just had a segment about Kurdish women fighters that included a fighter who is laid up with an injury. She said that Kurdish women essentially buy their freedom by being fighters and when they walk into a village the women there are envious of their freedom!

Wow. So it's not so progressive but at least there's some flexibility. I think she said her father was observing the interview.

[Baclava]

9. Don't expect Turkey to jump in

ISIL pushes into Kobani, street fighting escalates



...

Turkey's calculations are complex, however. For three decades, Ankara has fought an armed insurgency by the Kurdish PKK, the Turkish sister party of the PYD, who demand greater autonomy in Turkey's southeast.

Analysts say Ankara is now wary of helping Syrian Kurdish forces near Kobani as they have strong links with the PKK and have maintained ambiguous relations with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, to whom Turkey is implacably opposed.

Leaders of Turkey's Kurds have warned that allowing Syria's Kurds to be driven from Kobani would spell the end of Erdogan's delicately poised drive to negotiate an end to his own Kurdish insurgency and permanently disarm the PKK.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/10/6/syria-kobani-isil.html

[flamingdem]

12. Turkish pols seem to lack a vision of how to make the Kurds their allies

instead they are showing the world they're not humanitarians and cannot be fair to people who are being destroyed by a supposedly common enemy.

[Baclava]

14. So we're back to picking sides in tribal warfare

lovely

[freshwest]

17. Our problem is three fold. We are in the same alliance as Turkey, broke Iraq and haven't escaped oil

although we are trying like hell to get away from the oil oligarchies. Too much of our modern lives are beholden to fossibl fuels, no matter what we would like it to be. I credit the American people and Obama for working on getting away from a system that has gone on longer than most of us have been alive, and is interwoven into all of our technology, not just the transporation and power grid. These greedy interests won't go easily. It's our fight that will have to take place at home, to stop them from stopping us here. And to keep on divesting ourselves of oil.

[flamingdem]

18. Good description. I guess we have to get into their mind set

or none of this makes sense strategically.

It's not like Turkey is some backwater though!

[Baclava]

20. For all our professed love for our Kurdish footsoldiers, we refused to let them sell oil

because Iraq whined when they filled up supertankers to sell on the global market and we blocked their ship, $100M worth of Black Gold, Texas Tea


Why a Tanker of Kurdish Oil is Stranded by the Galveston Coast

Tensions between the government of Iraq and Kurds in the northern part of the country have once again reached a boiling point. Now, Baghdad is cutting off payments to Kurdistan because of a controversy involving an oil tanker off the coast of Texas.

The semi-autonomous region of Kurdistan has successfully exported several shipments of oil this year. Baghdad opposed those exports, claiming that the oil belongs to the Iraqi people, and the use of its natural resources should be decided by the central government. Most recently, Baghdad successfully filed for a court order to keep one million barrels of crude oil from being unloaded in Galveston

http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2014/07/31/why-a-tanker-of-kurdish-oil-is-stranded-by-the-galveston-coast/

------------------------------

Let's just call it the War for Iraqi Oil

[flamingdem]

21. The Kurds hosed again. I hope they get something big

out of the current war.

All this with clear evidence that they can run a democracy and give more rights to women, etc. I wonder if the US can afford to help them and if they don't why not.

[Baclava]

29. The Kurds should know by now we'll use them, then shit on them.... Your 'why not' = Iraqi Oil

Give them Kirkuk and it's ocean of oil and let them build their own state.

Redraw the map.

[Iliyah]

22. Centuries of mistrust and fighting since the

beginning. The region needs to confront itself. USA, Allies, help one group, and several years later they are the enemy. Opinion, the region's gonna be in turmoil but oil is there.

Free up on the oil, there are other alternatives.

[flamingdem]

26. You're right. That should be the focus

and it was maddening that the climate change march issues got pushed off the stage for Isis and then Ebola.

[happyslug]

30. AS long as Turkey is dependent on Russia and Iran for Natural Gas, they will be conflicted.

The Turks do NOT want their energy suppliers, Russia and Iran to be mad at them, thus refuse to OPENLY support the wars against the Shiites in Iraq and the Alawites in Syria (Assad is a Alawite) both of whom are allied with Iran, who in turn has close connections with Russia.

Thus Turkey is walking a tight rope, deep down they want to support ISIS for they dislike Assad and Iran (and prefer both to be overthrown) but when it comes down to what to do, they are constrained by fears of an energy cut off from Iran and Russia.

Unlike Oil, which can be shipped almost as cheaply by Ship then by pipeline (With rail a close price alternative), Natural gas will always be at least 1/3 cheaper if shipped by pipeline (This has to do with the fact Natural Gas is a gas and thus has to be compressed into its Liquid form to be shipped by ship, rail, or truck and that compression takes the energy equivalent of 1/3 of the natural gas that is compressed).

Thus Turkey can get its OIL from Saudi Arabia, but if Turkey opts for Qatar or Saudi Arabia Natural Gas, it will be 1/3 more expensive in the short term.

Side note: One of the reason for the recent fighting in Syria is the route of two new Natural Gas Pipeline from the Persian Gulf, Iran is building one from Iran through the Shiite held area of Iraq, through the Deserts of Southern Iraq and Syria to Damascus and the Mediterranean Coast, held by the Alawites, then undersea to Cyprus and then to Athens then Serbia to Europe. Saudi Arabia and Qatar is building one from Qatar through Saudi Arabia to the Deserts of Syria and then through the Area now held by ISIS then into Turkey then to Romania and then to Western Europe. Thus the Deserts of Syria and to a lesser degree Iraq is the real "Prize" in the fighting involving ISIS, who controls that Desert can prevent the other pipeline from being completed and thus control the Natural Gas going to Europe from the Persian Gulf. This is all being built right now and why the fighting is so intense right now and why and how people are supporting and opposing ISIS. Remember the famous motto, FOLLOW THE MONEY and in the middle east it means FOLLOW THE OIL AND NATURAL GAS.

[rollin74]

34. found this interesting twitter feed on battle in Kobane

and ongoing US airstrikes there

with frequent updates
https://twitter.com/cahitstorm

[flamingdem]

35. Thanks. I know about that one

Mostly I use #kobane #twitterkurds

and through that found cahitstorm with this interesting info:

cahit storm ‏@cahitstorm 1h1 hour ago

I still hear the plane over #kobane for me it is 80% sure a b-1 lancer. I have watch it 3 times with binoculars

Others confirmed that it's a B-1 Lancer meaning that pilots are in there. No doubt US? Unless other countries have that aircraft.

It's probably saving the Kurds for the moment but at night it's another story and Isis has night vision ability.