Catholic bishops reject welcome to gays in sign of split

[muriel_volestrangler]

Source: USA Today

Catholic bishops rejected a landmark change Saturday in the rigid stance on gays and divorcees, revealing enormous gaps within the church at the end of a two-week meeting.

The synod's final statement failed to include remarkably conciliatory language revealed a week ago that would have welcomed the "gifts and qualities" of gay Catholics and called on pastors to "avoid any language or behavior" that could discriminate against divorced Catholics.

While the language on gays had been softened during discussion in the meeting's last days, the final document failed to receive the two-thirds majority vote it needed. The bishops did, however, praise conjugal love — love within the bounds of traditional marriage — calling it "one of the most beautiful of all miracles and the most common."

Still, the failure to reach a consensus on broader-reaching language, is a failure for the more tolerant tone Pope Francis has struck since taking the role of pontiff more than a year ago. Last year, the pope made waves when, in response to a question about whether gays could be good Christians, he asked, "Who am I to judge?"

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/10/18/bishops-scrap-welcome-to-gays/17502055/

---

Also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29677779
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2014/1018/Division-in-church-clear-as-Catholic-bishops-scrap-welcome-to-gays

[markpkessinger]

1. And this is why . . .

. . . it is a bit foolish to get too excited whenever a Pope signals a slight change in tone. There is an enormous amount of institutional inertia among the bishops.

[blm]

2. I say - let them split. Their hateful side has been paving their way to hell

for some time now.

[hedgehog]

3. Sad to say, but a Synod on Family Life that was

supposed to listen to families reiterated the ban on contraception.

Pope Francis is dealing with a stacked deck. Every bishop appointed by John Paul II or Benedict XVI was vetted to ensure that he was a rock solid conservative adamantly against any change. That's every bishop appointed after 1978! Bishops who entered seminary during the springtime of Vatican II are fast dying out. Even worse, ultraconservative Westerners are joining with Ultraconservative African bishops to throw up roadblocks.

The failure of the Synod shows a Church in far deeper trouble than anyone had imagined.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Too true: "Openness to life is an intrinsic requirement of married love"

53. Today, the diffusion of a mentality which reduces the generation of life to accommodate an individual’s or couple’s plans is easily observable. Sometimes, economic factors are burdensome, contributing to a sharp drop in the birthrate which weakens the social fabric, thus compromising relations between generations and rendering a future outlook less certain. Openness to life is an intrinsic requirement of married love.

54. Realistic language is probably also needed in this instance, language which knows how to start by listening to people and acknowledging the beauty and truth of an unconditional openness to life as that which human life needs to live life fully. This serves as the basis for an appropriate teaching regarding the natural methods of human reproduction, which allow a couple to live in a harmonious and conscious manner the communication between husband and wife, in all its aspects, along with their responsibility at procreating life. In this regard, we should return to the message of the Encyclical Humanae Vitae of Pope Paul VI, which highlights the need to respect the dignity of the person in the moral evaluation of the methods of regulating births.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/10/16/full-text-updated-mid-term-report-on-family-synod/

Their message is "the birth rate is too low. We need more people!"

[kwassa]

22. This is not unlike the stacking of conservative judges on the Supreme and other courts ...

the legacy goes on a long time after the pope is gone ...

[hedgehog]

26. Exactly.

Ad to that, for the past 20-30 years, a lot of men (and women!) who would be good priests have walked away. They looked at the craziness inherent in the structure and decided their talents would be better used elsewhere. The result is a deep bench of conservative men, many of who chose the priesthood for the illusion of power.

[Bluenorthwest]

4. The mischaracterization of Francis' 'who am I to judge' as having been said about 'gays' is getting

old. Not only was he talking about clerics who are celibate, he specifically negated the idea of any partnership and was harshly critical of what he kept calling 'The gay lobby' which he flatly said is 'bad' and he equated it to the 'Masonic Lobby' giving the entire discourse an obscure twist.
So to say he was asked about gays and said 'that's fine' is just a line of bullshit that bbc and others need to stop repeating. The very discourse in which he said 'who am I to judge' was over all negative toward gay people and not at all inclusive of actual gay relationships.
A modicum of honesty in the discussions about Frank and his outfit is long overdue.

[theHandpuppet]

14. Thank you

People need to stop repeating that meme for exactly the reasons you stated. Repeating an untruth, no matter how often, doesn't make it so.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Can you link to a good source of info re comments about the gay lobby?

I read about it before but I can't remember where.

Francis is no friend to LGBT people and it's time for DUers to start acknowledging that fact.

[Jamastiene]

27. Thank you.

This goes back to the idea of being tolerated. When even America is slowly allowing gay marriage state by state (through lots of fighting for it, but still it is slowly happening), it is about time people started seeing the negativity of the "tolerance" idea. The days of begging for tolerance are over, even in America. It's time for equality, all the way.

[Arugula Latte]

34. WHAT??!! But here on DU Francis is being hailed as a Lovable Liberal!!

I was told he was pretty much Paul Wellstone in a robe and a big phallic hat!!! How can this be?!

[gerogie2]

6. This was just a PR stunt.

Unless the Church changes doctrine regarding gays, remarried Catholics and co-habituating couples this synod is completely meaningless. IMHO.YMMV.

[Comrade Grumpy]

7. That is an exceedingly cynical view. I think it reflects serious division in the Church.

[hedgehog]

9. Right now official teachings come in a top down fashion that

ignores both theologians and the average Catholic's experience. Too many bishops don't understand where the teachings they hold come from (hint - a lot is based on biology as understood in the 12th century), but by God, they will hold their course against any suggested changes.

[Johnyawl]

10. I agree Comrade Grumpy...

...The Catholic Church is a 1500 year old dinosaur; a huge bureaucracy subject to the laws of bureaucratic inertia. Trying to affect real change will be a challenge under any situation. And on top of that the majority of the clergy is very conservative and will drag their feet and resist any change at all. And I think the old guard are really the majority.

[theHandpuppet]

15. No, it's not that cynical

The preliminary document was released to the press even before the bishops got a copy and could voice any objections. Now I wonder how that happened.

[hedgehog]

12. I dont think it was a PR stunt; I think Francis was unprepared for the

strength of the opposition. As noted elsewhere, it's not so much that he was re-defining what is sinful as suggesting a change in how public sinners" are treated. Even that is too much for some conservatives.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. And yet Chris Matthews and other Francis supporters hit the airwaves hard and fast declaring that

great changes had been made by Francis. And that's how we know it was about PR, the flacks picked it up and ran with it quickly. Chris Matthews will never, ever do a correction on his segment of lies and bullshit. It was his lead story the first show after that letter came out. They had already started retracting it. But he pushed that 'great changes, amazing Pope' crap anyway. And it is that lack of honesty from those who promote this shit that defines them and also the value of their philosophy.

[hedgehog]

31. I think what that reflected wasn't PR so much as wishful thinking

by a lot of lay Catholics.

[blkmusclmachine]

8. The Church will stay mired in its 16th Century viewpoints.

[hedgehog]

11. 16th Century? You give some of these guys too much credit!

[theHandpuppet]

16. Archbishop Cordileone is probably popping a cork as I type

He and his bigot pals at NOM can have a little hate party.

[Rozlee]

23. It took the church centuries to admit Galileo was right, even when faced with hard scientific

evidence. Social change will be even slower.

[RKP5637]

13. Churches could be helpful in bonding people together and making a better life for

humanity, but far too often some churches favor persecutory behaviors and have quite a history for insane reasons. Some, would probably love to bring the inquisitions back, some had such a good time of it eons ago, and sadly those types of individuals are still with us today, across many religions. That, is why I have a very negative view of religion.

[hedgehog]

32. I was a cradle Roman Catholic, but now I am an Episcopalian.

I find that the Episcopal Church really does follow the Gospel in how it treats people and how the people treat each other. I'm sure we have our share of cranky people (although I haven't met any yet). There are some parishes where the people want to hold on to old prejudices, and they are trying to split away from the American Church and become part of conservative dioceses overseas.

I told my sister I had to become an Episcopalian in order to stay Catholic.

[SoapBox]

17. Always be true to your roots!

Keep on being old, stupid and angry.

[valerief]

18. Pissy pedophile bishops. nt

[redruddyred]

25. the catholic church is the gayest organization in the history of ever.

altar boys, prebubescent sopranos, all-male dormitories...

their obesession with the topic belies their personal persuasions.

[Jamastiene]

28. You have a strange idea of what a gay organization really is.

I call bullshit on your assertion. It was a shitty thing to say about gay people. Don't equate us with them and their weird ass obsessions.

[yardwork]

38. Thank you. /nt

[redruddyred]

41. excuse me

self-hating "heterosexuals" with strong gay urges.

[nomorenomore08]

29. While there's certainly a lot of repressed homoeroticism there, calling it a "gay organization" -

considering the Church's treatment of gays past and present - is a huge misnomer.

[redruddyred]

42. I don't know.

remember the larry craig scandal?

[wilsonbooks]

20. The Pope strikes back

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/tcmassie/breaking_pope_ousts_top_vatican_judge_after_incendiary_anti_gay_comments


American Cardinal Raymond Burke, a darling of conservative Catholics who is virulently anti-gay, has confirmed to BuzzFeed what rumors from Rome have said for weeks. He will be demoted by Pope Francis from the head of the Roman Catholic Church's version of the Supreme Court to a figurehead role as the Patron of the Knights of Malta, a chivalrous order known for its work among the sick.

This is not the first demotion for Burke, who was dropped by Francis almost a year ago from an important Vatican bureau that selects bishops around the world. Burke was replaced on The Congregation for Bishops by Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington, D.C., who, while also conservative, does not use the inflammatory rhetoric that has made Burke a favorite of the far-right in the Catholic Church.

Burke recently told an interviewer that legally-married gay and lesbian family members should be shunned from family celebrations during the upcoming holidays, asking “what would it mean to grandchildren to have present at a family gathering a family member who is living [in] a disordered relationship with another person?”

LOOK: Conservative Leaders Push Catholic Church To Backtrack On Gays

Burke's strong criticism of a preliminary document that included more inclusive welcoming of LGBT community members in the life of the Church and his challenge to Francis, who is seen to have had a hand in the drafting of the document, were apparently the last straw for the Pope.

[Hoppy]

21. What do these wankers think Jesus was doing, hanging around with 12 guys.

[redruddyred]

24. and they wonder why the kids become atheists.

the catholic church has yet to enter the 20th century. (that was not a typo)

[dembotoz]

33. the church of the inquisition remains the church of the inquisition

hats off to the new pope but the evil stays

[hedgehog]

35. So - can people never change? can organizations mever change?

[dembotoz]

37. could but has not--as is as was

[Arugula Latte]

39. Well, gee, not so much with the Catholic Church, it seems. Let's take a look:

Women still second-class citizens not entitled to autonomy over their bodies nor power in the church? Check
Gays still second-class citizens not entitled to equal rights? Check
Birth control still evil? Check
Child rape cover-ups and deflection still continuing? Check
Plunder to build up Vatican coffers still occuring? Check
Members of adhering to medieval church doctrine dominating U.S. Supreme Court and sticking it to U.S. citizens via warped decisions (see Hobby Lobby, for one)? Check

[sendero]

36. I'd have no problem with..

... a totally irrelevant Catholic church and with these idiots at the helm I might see one in my lifetime.

[closeupready]

40. Considering most bishops are likely gay, am I the only one seeing irony

in the fact that they are behaving like Log Cabin Republicans?