Washington state voters on course to pass gun control initiative

[ErikJ]

Source: The Guardian

Washington state voters appear ready to go where their politicians fear to tread and impose greater gun controls in the face of a well-funded campaign by the National Rifle Association and a rival spoiler measure on Tuesday’s ballot.

Opinion polls suggest a clear majority in favour of requiring background checks on all firearms sales in Washington state including at gun shows and through private advertising. The campaign for the only major piece of gun control legislation on the ballot in the US this year, Initiative 594, was launched in the wake of the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting on the other side of the country two years ago, in which 20 children and six adults were murdered. But the campaign drew to a close with a school killing in Washington itself in which five students were shot in the Marysville school north of Seattle last month.

Geoff Potter of the Washington Alliance for Gun Responsibility, a coalition of organisations which put the initiative on the ballot, said the campaign was born of frustration at the unwillingness of the US Congress and members of Washington state’s legislature to curb the illegal sale of guns because they are afraid of the power of the NRA.

“People are tired with putting up with inaction. If the elected representatives would not act, both at a national level and in our own legislature, then people were prepared to take the issue into their own hands and after two years they’ll have the opportunity to do that on Tuesday,” he said.

....................................more

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/02/washington-state-voters-gun-control-initiative-594

[Judi Lynn]

1. Best wishes to the voters in Washington. Many care so much for your success. n/t

[freshwest]

42. +1

[Recursion]

2. You might want to edit to include the link

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/02/washington-state-voters-gun-control-initiative-594

[ErikJ]

4. Just testin ya

Thanks.

[Recursion]

3. It's an interesting legal tack and I hope it does well

It would surprise me if it passed the inevitable court challenge, but here's hoping...

[Veilex]

5. Certainly have my fingers crossed.

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 12:29 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm sick of all the gun shops that have sprung up over the last few years... maybe this'll shut some of em down.

On edit: Shows! I meant shows, not shops

[subterranean]

8. It won't have any effect on gun shops.

The background check requirement already applies to sales through licensed gun dealers. This measure would just extend the requirement to gun shows and private sales, which are currently exempt.

[Duckhunter935]

9. would not effect them

They already have to perform background checks per existing federal law

[madville]

10. This will actually boost their profits

Under most of these proposed universal background check laws all gun transactions will have to go through a licensed dealer and background check. Dealers/gunshops typically charge $25 to $50 transfer fees for these transactions, this will potentially boost profits for licensed dealers by millions of dollars.

[jtuck004]

13. Wonder if it will boost the gun show sales in Idaho, 25 miles from the largest city on the red

side of the state?

There are two initiatives to vote for, and they are in opposition to each other. (can learn from a smart move on the part of the opposition, whether one likes them or not). The other question prohibits this action until the federal government makes it that way for everyone. The libertarians like that one, I am told.

So it could siphon people who would have voted for the first but who might listen to a plea about fairness or something away from the other question.

Interesting strategy, along with fighting it head on and all the calls and mailers.

[madville]

16. Most vendors and sales at gun shows

Are licensed dealers who are still required by federal law to run a background check regardless of the sale being at a gun show or not. It would have a negligible effect on gun show operations since over 90% of current gun show transactions already have background checks performed as it is.

[jtuck004]

18. This law is designed to close exactly that. It will have no effect in Idaho.

Some people go over there to buy their detergent since we made having phosphates in them illegal. They go get big boxes and bring them back, some with their cigarette runs. In this economy this may create some opportunity for a few, I suspect. It's not like anyone who wants a gun can't get one. I wish they would actually go after the root causes of hate, but perhaps that's too difficult.

Amazing how this country can't figure out that education is more powerful than prohibition will ever be.

[AtheistCrusader]

51. WAC shows already self-policed and required background checks.

This wasn't about gun shows. This is private transfers across the board. Every type. Even the sales in the classified section of the newspaper. All of it.

[jtuck004]

53. Yeah, I read through it. And inheritances too. Over here they will just drive to Idaho,

most go over on a regular basis anyway. Will be interesting to see how it gets enforced in the future. Probably easier to manage on the West side, and the under-the-table market will grow a little, and a lot of those areas outside the metros that voted against it will simply ignore it where they can.

Perhaps it will help a little, however, make people think some.

[AtheistCrusader]

54. I think the law sucks but

I'm leveraging it as a 'look, if you don't want to be part of the solution, you'll hate the result' example with my fellow gun owners.

It's possible to craft a worthwhile UBC bill or initiative. It just requires that we (gun owners) step up and be part of the planning/passage of the law.

'No' isn't a politically tenable solution. not long term anyway.

[jtuck004]

57. I agree. I voted for it, and you are right, gun owners need to figure this out, though they aren't

the only ones with a duty to be responsible or respectful of others.

It seems to me that many, and on either side, manufacture barriers to cooperating towards a solution, whether intentionally or unintentionally. The bullets, on the other hand, don't really care which side you are on, how much money you have, or what color you think you are, if they miss their intended target. That makes it more tragic, imho.

[Recursion]

12. This doesn't apply to gun stores

Just garage sales, classified ads, etc.

Actually as somebody just pointed out, this will end up being a boon for gun stores, because they will process the background checks.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. WAC shows already require membership to buy or sell.

Touch a gun at the show without membership, and you are escorted out.
Membership requires a valid background check, performed as you register.

That said, it will curtail private transfers outside the shows, and at flea markets/garage sales, etc, which are also a means for guns to pass from a legal owner, to an unlawful recipient.

The initiative as worded, contains some pretty heinous side effects, BUT, gun owners had an opportunity to be a part of crafting the solution to the problem (illegal private transfers) and refused, so, this is the result.

[N.Y. to Paris]

6. Yes!!!

Even if it falls flat on its face.....at least it's a start, Goddammit!
26 killed, 20 of them children and nothing gets done in this country?
Good for you folks! All the best on it, millions of lawyers in this country
and none of them have strapped on any balls to do what you folks are
doing.....all the best indeed!

[leanforward]

7. Talk about forward thinking!

It's sad that the peoples representatives couldn't get the job done. It took another tragedy to solidify the will of the people. I think this poll is great news.

[JeaneRaye]

11. Trying to get this measure on the ballot in Nevada soon

I certainly hope Washington State succeeds in passing this measure. Last year the Nevada State Legislature passed a law in support of background checks for gun sales. Well, our Republican Governor Brian Sandoval vetoed that bill. Since we can't depend on the lawmakers to pass require background checks, it is now being brought to the voters. I just signed a petition last week to get this measure on the ballot in 2016. Here's hoping that many other states are doing the same. We certainly can't count on our congress people to stand up to the NRA. What a bunch of weenies.

[scarystuffyo]

15. It took 20 elementary school children to be murdered in my state to get such a simple

piece of legislation passed that infringes on no ones right to own a firearm.

[JC4145]

49. Except for everyone who is now a medical or recreational marijuana user.

Form 4473 asks if the buyer is currently using any illegal marijuana. This is a federal form.

[pablo_marmol]

21. "We certainly can't count on our congress people to stand up to the NRA."

Or stand up to the ACLU for that matter. Left-leaning news sources are suppressing this story, right-leaning ones are trumpeting it:

http://reason.com/blog/2013/04/04/aclu-unhappy-with-aspects-of-potential-r

[scarystuffyo]

14. Good luck on it

I remember after the Sandy Hook shooting the majority of gun owners in this country
all supported back ground checks on all sales.

Even close to half of all NRA members

This law should be a no brainer but the NRA has their claws deep into congress

[ManiacJoe]

38. Universal background checks is a great concept that virtually everyone wants.

Unfortunately, I-594 is a bad implementation of that great idea. Bad enough that we are better off without it in my opinion.

[cilla4progress]

17. I just got done voting

for this!

In my rural area all the signs are for the other position! So frustrating.

[justice1]

19. I've been carded for music with explicit lyrics

Buying a gun, even on the secondary market shouldn't be easier.

[Damansarajaya]

28. This isn't just requiring ID. This means calling up the BATF and getting clearance.

If it helped, I'd be for it.

I'm not sure it will do anything except make it much harder to buy and sell guns, mainly to people who already have guns.

[MFM008]

20. here in WA

our house voted 3 for 1 against. I think it will pass.

[hack89]

22. My state has UBCs - it is not that big a deal. Nt

[belzabubba333]

23. the guardian? any local media covering this?

[clayton72]

24. While some common sense reform would be good, 594 isn't it.

I-594 will make a lot of common actions a class-c felony. authors of the bill didn't want anyone to be able to dodge responsibility by claiming that they were only loaned a gun, so they classified far too much as a transfer requiring background check by FFL, waiting period, fees, etc. An adult could let a minor child try a weapon out at a gun range for the purposes of training, but there is no such exception for an adult. In other words, there is no way for an adult to be properly trained without purchasing a firearm legally prior to taking the class. If one person leaves another person in the car with their guns locked in the trunk while they go in to buy a soda, both are guilty. If a husband passes away and leaves guns in the house, his widow is guilty. Etc, etc.

Now in reality I think we all know that affluent, fair-skinned folks won't have much to worry about. The Cliven Bundy's of the world will not be arrested for having a gun and not having the receipt for it during a traffic stop. But this likely will be used disproportionately against folks from the wrong side of the tracks or perhaps might come up after a tragedy has occurred.

As for gun shows, they will find a way to go on. Too much money to be made there.

[Capt.Rocky300]

26. "If a husband passes away and leaves guns in the house, his widow is guilty."......

But what if the married couple have a community property agreement?

[F4lconF16]

25. Registered to vote in Oregon

So I couldn't vote on this, but I did spend some time at out local phone bank on it. Glad to see it's working!

[Damansarajaya]

27. Has any shooter in a mass shooting ever obtained a gun from a private sale?

I think guns should be more regulated, but only if the regulation is shown to do some good.

For instance, requiring owners to safely STORE guns would be a very good start. The Sandy Hook shooter had access to his mom's guns. If they had been locked behind steel--as they should be required by law to be--he might not have been able to get to the AR-15 clone.

[NutmegYankee]

30. How do you verify that they are stored properly?

As for the Sandy Hook shooter, the mom had the guns locked in a safe. The son somehow learned the combo and opened the safe to get them. The police report documents that the safe was found open without signs of being broken into.

[Damansarajaya]

43. The owner could be required to sign an affidavit,

and could then be fined or imprisoned if the gun was used in a crime or accident because it was unsecured.

[NutmegYankee]

46. Far too cumbersome in paperwork to have each person sign a court document.

I call storage laws a feel good law. They cannot be enforced and are only useful after something bad has happened.

[Damansarajaya]

58. Isn't that like saying that laws against Ponzi schemes don't work,

because they're only enforceable after something bad has happened?

[NutmegYankee]

60. No.

You can actively make fraud illegal and can actively check on it. Requiring people to do things inside their home, but being unable to verify that it is done is the problem. The 4th amendment prohibits compliance inspections.

What you can do is write a law that says you are responsible if the firearm is used in a crime or someone is hurt because it was accessible. But specifying a specific storage method just isn't legally enforceable.

[Damansarajaya]

44. But thanks for that information. I hadn't heard how

the Sandy Hook shooter got his mom's guns.

Still, if one is concerned about one's child's mental health, do you give them access to your guns?

That doesn't make sense to me.

[NutmegYankee]

45. He may have figured out the combo based on knowledge of her.

[True Blue Door]

29. With five fascist revolutionaries controlling the Supreme Court

it will no doubt be struck down in some lawless and irregular fashion, with the "majority" opinion basically saying "Because we say so."

[demigoddess]

31. I hope so

when my husband saw a gun carried in Goodwill and I can look out my window and see a guy holding a gun or carrying, I want some laws to restrict such things. Ps. aren't there some covers that you can put your guns in to carry them around? seems to me that would be a good idea and a safety measure.

[SeattleVet]

34. 'Covers' for the guns? You mean not openly carrying it?

If it is hidden, the person would have to apply for a Concealed Weapons Permit. Depending on the state it is either relatively easy (but still costs $$), or damn near impossible for the average citizen to obtain (NY/DC).

[nomorenomore08]

56. I'd be willing to somewhat relax the rules on concealed carry, in exchange for banning open carry.

I didn't really care before, but these guys carrying semi-auto rifles around everywhere are way, way over the top.

[Rose Siding]

32. It was a pleasure to vote for this

[mountain grammy]

33. We did manage to get this passed in the Colorado legislature..

something that made our local sheriff's head explode, but he lost his Republican primary, so take that moron.

I love Washington, almost as much as Colorado, if the weather was better, I'm sure I'd live there.

[Gloria]

36. Didn't 2 of the gun control people get

pushed out on a recall or something?

Why don't Dems ever try to recall crap GOPers???

[mountain grammy]

37. Yes, they did. About 10% of the precinct voted.

But they couldn't manage to flip the Senate. I think a Republican could commit murder and not be recalled.

[Gloria]

39. Talk about minority rule....

10% is a real disgrace...

[mountain grammy]

40. No shit.

Hoping the legislature takes up the recall issue this year while we still have a Dem majority, and we should keep it.

[gopiscrap]

35. I certainly voted for it

but it doesn't go far enough!

[ellie]

41. Wonderful!

What is the job market like there? I would love to live there.

[ErikJ]

48. I'm from Oregon so not sure

I was born and raised in eastern Washington which is dry and conservative. Western WA is more liberal (and prosperous with more jobs).

[WestSeattle2]

47. Quite frankly, I would love to make purchasing firearms in the state of Washington as

difficult and problematic as it is to obtain an abortion in Texas.

This initiative was just one very small step in that direction.

[JC4145]

52. Well funded?

Didn't realize $500k from the NRA counted as that when compared to Bloomberg and other's $10million spent on 594.

[ErikJ]

55. Hopefully state after state will bankrupt the NRA who own the politicians

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDPzm1txd9Vpuny9pcRRnuM5Fauxd6682k1EcbtCH8G1suZZwGJQ

[notrightatall]

59. I think it is a great first step. This guy hates it:

?w=225

Who's side are you on?